PS5 Die shot

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regnaston

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#1 regnaston
Member since 2008 • 2284 Posts

Some Youtubers (Mooreslawisdead, Redtech, etc) said they had pretty much confirmed that the PS5 had infinity cache and a host of other RDNA3 features. Well the die shot puts that to rest. (follow the whole thread by the twitter and he breaks down what it has)

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#2 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 11528 Posts

I like this level of analysis

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hardwenzen

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#3  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 7102 Posts

More underpowered than expected. Only worth buying because gpu's are sold out and everything is expensive.

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SolidGame_basic

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#4 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 30006 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

More underpowered than expected. Only worth buying because gpu's are sold out and everything is expensive.

Meanwhile the most underpowered system (Switch) is on fire.

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hardwenzen

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#5 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 7102 Posts

@SolidGame_basic said:
@hardwenzen said:

More underpowered than expected. Only worth buying because gpu's are sold out and everything is expensive.

Meanwhile the most underpowered system (Switch) is on fire.

At releasing emulators and hd ports

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Epak_

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#6 Epak_
Member since 2004 • 11396 Posts

@hardwenzen: Pretty much, but I'm a sucker for some Mario/Zelda action, it's a nice second system (PS5 being my main system atm). I wish it gets upgraded though.

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madrocketeer

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#7 madrocketeer  Online
Member since 2005 • 8280 Posts

Mostly expected. Consumer tech is all about compromises, especially when it comes to consoles. I knew they would cut down some of Zen 2's features to reduce die size and cost. The surprising part for me is that they kept RDNA 1's rendering backend as well. Seems both consoles are more like RDNA 1.7 or 1.8 than RDNA 2.

Lack of Infinity Cache should be put into context a bit; AMD's Infinity Cache was to compensate for the RX 6000's 256-bit bus, which they used to keep cost and power consumption down while still allowing the RX 6000 cards to compete at higher resolutions. Consoles have unified RAMs and low latency system buses, so they might not really need it.

Should still be adequate, though. More interesting should be the PS5's lower CU count compensated by higher clock speed. In most tasks this should keep it toe-to-toe with the XSX. The question is what happens when and if we throw more shader-intensive tasks at them.

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Bluestars

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#8 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 2400 Posts

9.2 tinyflops

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Random_Matt

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#9 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 5907 Posts

Lol, wait for slim model. Might be a third cheaper.

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#10  Edited By WonderWinner
Member since 2021 • 420 Posts

@madrocketeer: how dare you present facts and logic? Don't you know it's all about conjecture and wishful thinking around these parts?

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JasonOfA36

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#11 JasonOfA36
Member since 2016 • 2767 Posts

Jokes on you, 99% of the rendering is done by that sweet SSD.

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#12 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 47284 Posts

@jasonofa36 said:

Jokes on you, 99% of the rendering is done by that sweet SSD.

This is true and is also the reason why I am confused with the focus on the die shot.

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rzxv04

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#13 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2455 Posts

@madrocketeer said:

Mostly expected. Consumer tech is all about compromises, especially when it comes to consoles. I knew they would cut down some of Zen 2's features to reduce die size and cost. The surprising part for me is that they kept RDNA 1's rendering backend as well. Seems both consoles are more like RDNA 1.7 or 1.8 than RDNA 2.

Lack of Infinity Cache should be put into context a bit; AMD's Infinity Cache was to compensate for the RX 6000's 256-bit bus, which they used to keep cost and power consumption down while still allowing the RX 6000 cards to compete at higher resolutions. Consoles have unified RAMs and low latency system buses, so they might not really need it.

Should still be adequate, though. More interesting should be the PS5's lower CU count compensated by higher clock speed. In most tasks this should keep it toe-to-toe with the XSX. The question is what happens when and if we throw more shader-intensive tasks at them.

I'm no pro but isn't that as simple as PS5 getting lower res, lower settings, less stable framerate? That's about it? No super drastic difference like obvious missing effects like Series X vs S?

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hardwenzen

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#14 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 7102 Posts

Die shot is great and all, but when will we see and SSD shot? This is the part of the console that interests me, you and every intelligent gamer.

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flashn00b

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#15 flashn00b
Member since 2006 • 3805 Posts

As someone who's fairly tech-illiterate, the only question I have is "How the bloody hell will this compare with my Ryzen 3800X + RTX 3070 combination"?

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#16 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 9359 Posts

I knew it wouldn't have Infinity cache, that's ridiculous. CPU and GPU cache is expensive and Infinity cache is meant to be a large amount. But Sony fans kept talking about "cache scrubbers".

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#17 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 1622 Posts

@hardwenzen: That's where they keep the triangles.

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PC_Rocks

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#18 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 5179 Posts

Well a cow here told me that the only reason PS5 is not full RDNA2 is because it has a custom I/O solution.

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SecretPolice

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#19 SecretPolice  Online
Member since 2007 • 37758 Posts

lol :P

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#20 madrocketeer  Online
Member since 2005 • 8280 Posts
@rzxv04 said:

I'm no pro but isn't that as simple as PS5 getting lower res, lower settings, less stable framerate? That's about it? No super drastic difference like obvious missing effects like Series X vs S?

Well, if all things are equal, yes. But typically, developers try to mitigate that in some way - the question is how. Maybe they'll lower resolution to maintain framerate, or maybe they'll tone down the specific shader-intensive stuff. We just don't know. It's all up to the developers.

But again, in straight rasterization, you will barely notice any difference at all. In fact PS5 should actually be faster in some applications.

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#21 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2455 Posts

@madrocketeer: From what I've read, geometry loves higher clockspeeds. That's about all I know for the narrow vs wide designs.

I guess you're right that it would likely depend on which game/what dev does to mitigate PS5's weaker hardware but to me, I just expect it as the usual. Could be any of what I've mentioned.

I expect the worse which is a combination of all of those but would still look much better than the Series S or PC equivalent of Series S hardware.

I expect about 30% drop in average res, maybe slightly noisier shadows and worse lod. Maybe more drops. That's it aka no big deal for me. I'd care more about PS5's black crushing issues.

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BlackShirt20

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#22 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 2527 Posts

So let me get this straight. It’s not Zen 2 or RDNA 3? Hell, it’s not even RDNA 1.5 by the looks of it. Shocking. I was told otherwise for a year now.

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hardwenzen

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#23 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 7102 Posts

@BlackShirt20 said:

So let me get this straight. It’s not Zen 2 or RDNA 3? Hell, it’s not even RDNA 1.5 by the looks of it. Shocking. I was told otherwise for a year now.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that when the SSD takes control of the cpu, there are major gains in performance. If you were intelligent like me, you'd know that already.

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#24  Edited By BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 2527 Posts

@hardwenzen: Clearly. That SSD is literally the only powerful tech in that machine.

That SSD isn’t helping.

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regnaston

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#25 regnaston
Member since 2008 • 2284 Posts

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/ps5-soc-die-shots-reveal-rdna-1-1-gpu-and-zen-2-cpu-cores-w-cut-down-fp-units/

hmm

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#26 SecretPolice  Online
Member since 2007 • 37758 Posts

@regnaston said:

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/ps5-soc-die-shots-reveal-rdna-1-1-gpu-and-zen-2-cpu-cores-w-cut-down-fp-units/

hmm

Where oh where is Captain Ron when we need him? lol :P

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Bluestars

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#27 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 2400 Posts

Bu bu but RDNA 3

HaaaaaaH

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regnaston

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#28 regnaston
Member since 2008 • 2284 Posts

Seems legit

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Pedro

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#29 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 47284 Posts

@regnaston: 😂

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#30 faponte13
Member since 2013 • 196 Posts

Why is it keeping up with xsx or beating it in most cases?

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#31 madrocketeer  Online
Member since 2005 • 8280 Posts
@faponte13 said:

Why is it keeping up with xsx or beating it in most cases?

Already explained in my previous posts. In most common rasterization tasks, the higher clock speed is enough for the PS5 to keep up with XSX, and in some cases even beat it.

It's the shader-heavy stuff that will be interesting to see.

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#32 TumorStation5
Member since 2021 • 62 Posts

But I was told it had Zen3, RDNA3 and cache scrubbers...

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#33 TumorStation5
Member since 2021 • 62 Posts

@madrocketeer: When games become more shader intense we will see how the ps5 shows it's weaknesses, example Hitman 3..

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hardwenzen

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#34 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 7102 Posts

If this thread was created three months ago, it would've been massive. Now, nobody cares. Cerny lied again. Everything that was hyped has failed. All what's missing is Ratchet to come out and we see 4sec plus rifts loading screens 🤣

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#35 slimdogmilionar
Member since 2014 • 1157 Posts

@regnaston: 🤣💀

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#36 mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 1570 Posts

@regnaston said:

Some Youtubers (Mooreslawisdead, Redtech, etc) said they had pretty much confirmed that the PS5 had infinity cache and a host of other RDNA3 features. Well the die shot puts that to rest. (follow the whole thread by the twitter and he breaks down what it has)

My dear Xbox fan, how about to do some throughout research in that thread, you'll find this tweet.

PS5 does have 256 bit FPUs, but smaller ones.

Some Youtubers (Mooreslawisdead, Redtech, etc) said they had pretty much confirmed that the PS5 had infinity cache and a host of other RDNA3 features

That was speculation, not a some confirmation of anything. LOL

@regnaston said:

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/ps5-soc-die-shots-reveal-rdna-1-1-gpu-and-zen-2-cpu-cores-w-cut-down-fp-units/

hmm

RDNA 1.1 doesn't exist. Don't be dumb Xbox fan like this Xbox fan. Btw. Locuza said regarding this one :

But regarding XSX, you'll be surprised :

Our Locuza

"but is Microsoft really using the most advanced technology and are there no hardware differences between Xbox Series X/S and RDNA 2 GPUs from AMD? The answer to that is... NO!"

But more anyway :

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Pedro

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#37 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 47284 Posts

That XSX true RDNA 2 versus the Waterdown RDNA 1.5 in the PS5 is really making some folks upset. 😎

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regnaston

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#38  Edited By regnaston
Member since 2008 • 2284 Posts

@mowgly1:

You do know he was making fund of the guy he was replying to who left a hanging ....

He is not saying he is wrong, he is making fun of the other guy

As for Mooreslawis dead and RedTech "confirming" they both said something along the lines of "I can pretty much confirm" ... yes they were speculating but they were going all fanboy on it. Same as some users here claiming that PS5 had RDNA3 features.

Regarding the 256 Bit FPU show me where he says it is that, because he has not in all the tweets I have seen. And even this article from PCgamer uses the 128bit FPU reference from Locuza https://www.pcgamer.com/ps5-die-shots-reveal-missing-zen-2-rdna-2-features/

Regarding the XSX being RDNA2 or not.. from Locuza

now finally regarding you calling me "dumb" .. thanks I value your analysis on me

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mowgly1

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#39  Edited By mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 1570 Posts

@regnaston said:

@mowgly1:

You do know he was making fund of the guy he was replying to who left a hanging ....

He is not saying he is wrong, he is making fun of the other guy

As for Mooreslawis dead and RedTech "confirming" they both said something along the lines of "I can pretty much confirm" ... yes they were speculating but they were going all fanboy on it. Same as some users here claiming that PS5 had RDNA3 features.

Regarding the 256 Bit FPU show me where he says it is that, because he has not in all the tweets I have seen. And even this article from PCgamer uses the 128bit FPU reference from Locuza https://www.pcgamer.com/ps5-die-shots-reveal-missing-zen-2-rdna-2-features/

Regarding the XSX being RDNA2 or not.. from Locuza

now finally regarding you calling me "dumb" .. thanks I value your analysis on me

LOL Locuza said he was wrong, he didn't mocked the guy. In Road to PS5 Mark Cerny explicitly said that PS5 CPU has native 256 bit instructions. So, there is that. LOL

FPUs are there, maybe is 2x128 implemented instructions or something. Maybe just with a reduced ISA., but surely not native 128-bit

He also said he was wrong about that on GAF :

I do regret my initial wording though, rather than saying "that Sony likely cut down the 256-Bit FP pipes to just 128-Bit", I should have worded it as "Sony might have cut down the 256-Bit FP pipes to just 128-Bit" to include a larger uncertainty.

As "true RDNA2" I never said anything about "true Zen2" but a cut down or "vanilla" version.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps5-die-shot-has-been-revealed.1591559/page-32#post-262408976

Cerny on Road To PS5

PS5 is especially challenging because the CPU supports 256 bit native instructions that consume a lot of power

Timestamped around 34:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8LyNIT9sg

Anyway, regarding XSX , he also stated. Both are based RDNA 2, but not neither one 100% ( like MS claimed for XSX in Xbox Wire article )

I never mentioned "true RDNA2" and I tried to make it clear, that the PS5 and Xbox Series are neither 100% RDNA1 nor RDNA2 technology.

However boths sides integrate huge improvements from RDNA2, so personally I would put them much closer to RDNA2 than RDNA1 but as said, it's not possible to slap a branding on them without it being largely oversimplified and subjective.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps5-die-shot-has-been-revealed.1591559/page-32#post-262408976

Yes, don't be dumb like that idiot with RDNA 1.1.

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regnaston

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#40  Edited By regnaston
Member since 2008 • 2284 Posts

@mowgly1: you are right of course 😁

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#41 mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 1570 Posts

@regnaston said:

@mowgly1: you are right of course 😁

Laugh at you as much as you want.

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#42 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 2527 Posts

@faponte13: Unfortunately for the PS5, it isn’t performing as good as the XSX anymore. Chalk it up to a lack of dev kits or the fact they had to use X1X dev kits early on or tools being behind PS5 at the time. But it appears that isn’t the case anymore.

Second, no current 3rd party game is really taking advantage of RDNA 2 features yet. It’s suspected that once developers really get familiar with next generation features that is where the XSX will flex its muscles. Because quite frankly the PS5 lacks key RDNA 2 features. XSX is full RDNA 2 and PS5 is RDNA 1.

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#43 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 1622 Posts

PS.5

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#44 jeffbuckley1
Member since 2004 • 63 Posts

The xbox comes with 2 blast processors so im not worried

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#45  Edited By TumorStation5
Member since 2021 • 62 Posts

Damn there is some guy up there crying over the fact that pos5 isn't even rdna2 , but they wanted people to believe it was RDNA3 with cache scrubbers and Zen3..