PS5 details from Mark Cerny: Backwards compatible, 8k, raytracing support, SSD standard, and more

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UssjTrunks

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#451  Edited By UssjTrunks
Member since 2005 • 11299 Posts

@emgesp said:
@jasonofa36 said:

@emgesp: So lemme get this straight. You think Sony would release a console with a 3rd gen Ryzen, with the latest Navi architecture, at least 16gb of ram and 1tb SSD storage that will support ray-tracing(this is stupid cos even GTX 5xx of the old can support ray-tracing), and they are packed into a tiny little piece of plastic to be priced at below 500 USD?

Bahahaha, thanks for the laugh.

Nobody said the SSD will be 1TB. There will most likely be a standard HDD as well. Don't use off the shelf PC part consumer prices as a guide. Sony gets massive discounts with their semi custom chips and other parts. Ray tracing on those older cards perform extremely poorly.

Ray tracing performs poorly even on an RTX 2080TI. The technology is nowhere near functional yet. AMD doesn't even have RT compatible cards on the market yet. We're at least two GPU generations away from it running smoothly. The 2080TI can only hit 30 FPS at 4K with a handful of highly optimized games.

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UssjTrunks

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#452  Edited By UssjTrunks
Member since 2005 • 11299 Posts
@emgesp said:
@davillain- said:
@emgesp said:

So stating a fact is shite-ass posting? I've seen tons of hardcore PC gamers admit that PS4 has put out some incredibly looking games, especially for the specs it has. You'd have to be delusional to not admit that. PC will always have the advantage of running multiplats with better resolution/frame rate, but they lack AAA exclusives that take advantage of top of the line hardware.

And what the hell agenda are you talking about?

If you really want to go their, most PC gamers like myself don't care about PS5 specs, we just wanna know what the new exclusive games will offer. And let it be know PC does have AAA games, and yes, they may not be mainstream compare to Sony/MS/Nintendo, but PC does have it's fair share of AAA games unless you know the concept to where to look at.

PC=everything else, PS4/Nintendo Switch=exclusive games. In short, I'm not interest knowing what PS5 specs will have, just tell me the exclusive games you will have is what I'm looking for. Any PC gamer will know consoles will never reach PC specs cause these console makers want to keep the price as low as $500.

IDK, to me AAA exclusives tends to mean pushing hardware to a certain degree. I rarely ever see AAA PC games that actually push hardware, especially top of the line hardware.

PC right now has hardware available that is a full generation ahead of base PS4, yet no PC game looks a generation better.

That's because all big budget games are multiplatform. There will never be a big budget PC exclusive because PC gaming is such a niche market.

And even though you don't get graphics that are a generation ahead, you get much better looking games.

60+ FPS @ 4K or 144+ FPS @ 1080p/1440p with all settings maxed out is a vastly superior experience to anything on consoles.

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jeezers

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#453  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3401 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

@jeezers: I understand not needing the newest upgrade, but 4K tv’s have been on store shelves since like 2013. Did you wait more than 6-7 years to jump on the HD bandwagon too?

lol i dont get why people care about this, nah i had a 720p around when they had just came out, then a 1080p, eventually replaced the 720 with a bigger 1080 like 2 years ago. both my TVs get the job done, just me and the girlfriend dont need 3 Tvs or 4k

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Son-Goku7523

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#454  Edited By Son-Goku7523
Member since 2019 • 955 Posts
@UssjTrunks said:
@son-goku7523 said:
@UssjTrunks said:
@son-goku7523 said:

^ ^ Exhibit A: Another butthurt PC fanboy.

Mark Cerny hasn't announced the processing power of the PS5, he only announced the specs and some of its capabilities. Careful, your insecurity is really showing.

It feels so good to have disposable income where I can buy any console I want and maintain a nice gaming PC so I don't need to be on here getting mad any time new console specs are announced.

Nobody is butthurt. PCMR just like to keep the peasants educated since we know you aren't tech literate. We understand how hardware works and would like to disseminate that knowledge to the uninformed.

The same thing happens every generation. Console manufacturers make lavish claims about how they've found a way to "unlock" the true potential of whatever $150 GPU they've decided to go with that will allow them to get 12x the performance of the current $1000 flagship card from Nvidia. Then the console comes out and everyone realizes they were duped.

We're just doing you a favour by tempering expectations.

The fact you use terms like "PCMR" and "peasant" shows how insecure you actually are.

I've been a PC gamer since 1991, I own several PCs and have built PCs since the late 90s. My whole life has been surrounded with PCs since my dad himself was a PC gamer and tech junkie and introduced me to PC gaming at an early age. At the same time though I enjoy playing on consoles because I'm a gamer and don't believe in holding myself back. I see a system I like with quality games and I buy it. I don't believe in this stupid fabricated world you fanboys live in where people are separated into factions for preferring PC over consoles or vice versa. I acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of console and PC gaming because I love both platforms and don't feel the need to fanboy for them or hide their supposed weaknesses. I'm a gamer through and through, neither a "PCMR" ambassador nor a "console peasant". You aren't tempering any expectations because Mark Cerny hasn't given us anything to expect, he just announced the PS5 specs and you're damage controlling because you probably feel like they are a threat to your gaming rig. Consoles will never be a threat to a truly secure PC gamer because he/she can always upgrade their PC to be better than whatever the consoles have cooked up. By coming into this thread and damage controlling as a way of "tempering expectations" you're only showing how insecure and butthurt you are. I'm a PC gamer and I don't view the PS5 as a threat at all to my PC and so I totally embrace it and welcome the birth of a new console generation as it will free us PC gamers from the shackles of current gen weak console hardware.

He didn't release any specs. Just said that it would be an AMD CPU and GPU (probably an APU to cut costs) and that it would support 8k (lol).

He released specs just not hard numbers. We know the specs are gonna be a 3rd gen Zen CPU, an AMD Navi GPU, and some new SSD tech, those are the preliminary specs. What we don't know are the full specs like clock speeds, memory bandwidth, type of RAM, etc. but he gave us enough specs to have an idea of where they are going with the PS5. As for the 8K support I don't believe we'll get Native 8K support, I think it's possible we could get games checkerboarded to 8K or upscaled to 8K. What we will probably get for sure is 8K media support so we can look forward to 8K movies on the PS5.

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BigBadBully

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#455 BigBadBully
Member since 2006 • 2170 Posts

@tormentos: PSNow would be even bigger if they used Gamepass Game Plan. Can't just stay static. If MS can do it, so can Sony.

You like going to brunch for a decent price? Imagine PSNow and stuffing all those Sony 1st party titles on ur plate, add on some of those 3rd party exclusives on the side along with some 3rd party games. Sounds delicious right? See you online with PS5, we can go to brunch when PSNow gets upgraded.

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Son-Goku7523

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#456  Edited By Son-Goku7523
Member since 2019 • 955 Posts
@BigBadBully said:

@tormentos: PSNow would be even bigger if they used Gamepass Game Plan. Can't just stay static. If MS can do it, so can Sony.

You like going to brunch for a decent price? Imagine PSNow and stuffing all those Sony 1st party titles on ur plate, add on some of those 3rd party exclusives on the side along with some 3rd party games. Sounds delicious right? See you online with PS5, we can go to brunch when PSNow gets upgraded.

Sorry to jump in but there is absolutely no reason for Sony to do as MS does because unlike MS, Sony's games actually sell a lot of copies. GOW alone selling 3 million in 3 days probably generated more revenue than GP did in a year according to this chart.

I don't even need to bring Spiderman into the picture which was an even bigger seller. MS is putting their games on GP on day one because they are desperate since lems aren't buying enough copies of their exclusives and they need to find other ways to support these games.

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2mrw

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#458 2mrw
Member since 2008 • 5870 Posts

@ronvalencia: everything in this demo looks like exaggerated as hell that's why doesn't look real and that's why I think it is a scam feature

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PC_Rocks

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#459 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@pc_rocks said:
@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:
@emgesp said:

1. I don't have to. I have shown it multiple times, ask your buddy tormentos how he got owned about it multiple times. And that is on top of that Steam survey can't be used as metric because a) it's optional b) It has shown to be inaccurate as it only shows the PC first registered against the user and not the latest specs he had. Again that has been discussed to death. Sony made a false marketing claim.

4. Need to see proof that base PS4 is doing HDR like Xbone S.

5. I already told you checkberboarding isn't something special. The real meat is the code that developers write for each game. Pro has nothing to do with it. Another lie.

1. You never showed this evidence to me. You are beyond naive and ignorant if you honestly think the average PC gaming rig in 2013 was as powerful or more poweful than the PS4. Again, there is no evidence that proves your statement to be true. There were some PCs that were more powerful yes, but they were only exceptions, not the norm. The AMD 7850/7870 and whatever Nvidia's equivalent at the time was definitely was not the average GPU in PCs in 2013.

4. You are the one who made the claim that Base PS4 only does fake HDR with zero evidence.

5. Well yeah the quality of checkerboard rendering comes down to the developers that goes without saying. Nobody assumed PS4 Pro just turns on a simple switch and everything just works.

1. Because the evidence you quoted is not any evidence at all. Don't care about average build, that was a marketing ploy to fool casual idiots into thinking they are buying some uber PC in a console form. The average console in 2013 was still 2005 era 360 and PS3. Fact is there are always more powerful PC's out there in the wild than whatever consoles are sold. Nvidia 6 series was already out for over a year and PS4 was in fact equivalent to mid range GTX 5 series from 2010.

4. The onus is on you to prove thhat original PS4 support HDR because you need HDMI 2.0 for HDR pass through, one of the reasons why Xbone doesn't support HDR but Xbone S does.

5. That's what your boy Cerny tried to pass it off as which was my initial point. Go and watch the Pro reveal again, how they avoided native 4K like a plague, passing off checkberboarding as a magical bullet and something Sony/Pro invented/supports, the whole 'Dynamic 4K' marketing.

4. https://support.playstation.com/s/article/PS4-How-to-get-HDR?language=en_US

PS4 supports HDR 1920x1080p.

To support HDR, Xbox One S includes slightly higher TFLOPS and memory bandwidth over the original XBO.

I know Sony claims it but where is the evidence it's real HDR with 10 bit color. I searched and can't find any evidence or reviews on PS4's HDR capabilities.

It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update.

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PC_Rocks

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#460 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:
@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:
@emgesp said:

1. I don't have to. I have shown it multiple times, ask your buddy tormentos how he got owned about it multiple times. And that is on top of that Steam survey

1. Because the evidence you quoted is not any evidence at all. Don't care about average build, that was a marketing ploy to fool casual idiots into thinking they are buying some uber PC in a console form. The average console in 2013 was still 2005 era 360 and PS3. Fact is there are always more powerful PC's out there in the wild than whatever consoles are sold. Nvidia 6 series was already out for over a year and PS4 was in fact equivalent to mid range GTX 5 series from 2010.

4. The onus is on you to prove thhat original PS4 support HDR because you need HDMI 2.0 for HDR pass through, one of the reasons why Xbone doesn't support HDR but Xbone S does.

5. That's what your boy Cerny tried to pass it off as which was my initial point. Go and watch the Pro reveal again, how they avoided native 4K like a plague, passing off checkberboarding as a magical bullet and something Sony/Pro invented/supports, the whole 'Dynamic 4K' marketing.

1. Its more evidence than what you have brought forth. Nobody said there wasn't more poweful PCs in 2013, the arguement was the fact that the average gaming rig was not as or more poweful than the PS4 in 2013.

4. HDMI 2.0 is simply a spec, PS4 has the hardware to handle it it just needed that firmware update to unlock the necessary bandwifth to do HDR in 1080p. It doesn't need the full 2.0 bandwidth because its not rendering out 4K resolution.

5. We've seen multiple examples of what checkerboard can accomplish when done right, it can look extremely good. Sony never said checkerboarding and native 4K were exactly the same just that with proper techniques one can come mighty close using those advanced upscaling techniques.

1. Average PC doesn't mean anything. Average PC is your workstation PC yet Sony were competing with gaming PC's. They know they are lying and reeling in the stupid casuals by making them think they are buying some uber PC with PS4 which was false. What they produced is mid range 2010 PC.

4. Here's what I replied to Ron: It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update. They need the hardware to transmit and work with these extra bits.

5. Yeah because 'Dynamic 4K' isn't lying. How marketing checkerboard as something revolutionary and making it sound like Pro alone can do it while PS4 can't isn't lying.

Anyway, I cam in this thread to say Cerny isn't an architect by any means and I did. I also proved he lied in the past as well as the current Sony leadership at multiple occasions. At this point in time I can't take anything that Sony says seriously unless I can see it. Sony have been lying since at least the PS2 days.

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PC_Rocks

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#461 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@tormentos said:
@pc_rocks said:

1. I don't have to. I have shown it multiple times, ask your buddy tormentos how he got owned about it multiple times. And that is on top of that Steam survey can't be used as metric because a) it's optional b) It has shown to be inaccurate as it only shows the PC first registered against the user and not the latest specs he had. Again that has been discussed to death. Sony made a false marketing claim.

4. Need to see proof that base PS4 is doing HDR like Xbone S.

5. I already told you checkberboarding isn't something special. The real meat is the code that developers write for each game. Pro has nothing to do with it. Another lie.

The only thing you have own here is your sorry ass.

First things first ion 2013 most PC on steam were in fact behind the PS4 power wise period.

The fact that there were more powerful PC on 2013 means total shit since those have existed since 2010 or even before,but reality is the amount of people who own those GPU are so low is not even funny.

Adoption rate on PC sucks ass and in a year or 2 already there are more consoles more powerful than most PC out there.

Second Checkerboard is not upscaling per say is a reconstruct image of the game is not quite native or upscale and lack the sharpness of true native res but also has higher sharpness than up scaling,if upscaling alone was the same as checkerboard MS would call the xbox one S a true 4k machine as well since you know the xbox one S can upscale games to 4k.

No the PS4 does in deed HDR what happen in i think RDR2 is something else but it can do HDR just so you know.

PC will always be ahead of consoles but will always be more expensive as well upfront,specially on launch with newer tech.

All the rubbish that you typed here has been what you posted in the earlier Steam Survey thread and got your a$$ handed over to you. Why don't you link that post, are you ashamed that after all your cherry-picking, flip flopping and constant goal post moves you were still owned?

The rest of the post is again just random ramblings with to co-relation to what I said or the argument is.

So, are you going to link or should I do?

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PC_Rocks

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#462 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:
@emgesp said:
@Pedro said:
@emgesp said:

Well no its not going to be exclusive, but I'm sure PS5's Navi part will have some features not found in the Desktop Navi GPUs.

Maybe, maybe not. The reality is that Navi caters for consoles just like the current GPUs in consoles which is also found on PC (just stronger versions). This notion you have been pushing that Navi was specifically designed and co-design with Sony, for the PS5 is simply false.

I'm saying Sony and AMD colaborated with the Navi design from early on with PS5 in mind. We will have to wait for confirmation from Cerny, but credible people with inside sources have said its true.

Mark Cerny: Hey Lisa, we are getting ready to start production of the next gen PlayStation products.

Lisa Su: What do you have in mind?

Cerny: We need low TDP. Something that doesn't run hot, and yet performs better than what the competition currently offers

Su: So not Vega or Jaguar?

Cerny: LOL, no.

And BOOM, Creny becomes a lead system architect, designer and creator of Navi and Zen. I wonder when's Intel going to fire Raja and hire him.

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#463 Addict187
Member since 2008 • 1066 Posts

@jeezers said:
@goldenelementxl said:

@jeezers: I understand not needing the newest upgrade, but 4K tv’s have been on store shelves since like 2013. Did you wait more than 6-7 years to jump on the HD bandwagon too?

lol i dont get why people care about this, nah i had a 720p around when they had just came out, then a 1080p, eventually replaced the 720 with a bigger 1080 like 2 years ago. both my TVs get the job done, just me and the girlfriend dont need 3 Tvs or 4k

if you don't want a 4k tv good on you. But I do want one and went and got one, and like it very much.

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osan0

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#464 osan0
Member since 2004 • 15466 Posts

@xantufrog: just the cost of having one big enough to make it useful on its own. Games will be massive next gen. if they go with something like a 256GB SSD on its own it would be like relying on the 32GB of storage in the switch and downloading all your games....it would be horrible. installs are not going away. games are not going to run from the disc on next gen systems. there will be a lot of DLC and some very large patches.

next gen consoles would want 1TB in the box minimum to deal with installs and large patches and so on. the cheapest 1TB SSD i can find is 120quid. now lets say sony would get that for 60 quid with bulk buying...maybe even 50 quid factoring in even cheaper prices next year (though that's pushing it if they are also going for something ultra fast). its still a sting when a 499 at most price is desired. its very unlikely Sony are going to take any significant loss on hardware sales: those days are long gone.

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Sevenizz

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#465 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 4095 Posts

Didn’t sony tell us gamers don’t buy new consoles to play previous generation’s games?

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#466 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121358 Posts

@pyro1245 said:

I'd like everyone to keep in mind that anything with HDMI 2.1 will be 8K..... So that is basically a gimme for anything coming out in the next few years.

The spec is 8K/30fps, or 60-120fps with compression.

Very excited about the SSDs.

I was thinking the same thing.

I hope backwards compatible is good or better. Any words on possible transfer/re-DL on games both on PSN? I have few PS4 games, but if I can't replay them later on PS5, I might skip it all together.

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#467  Edited By I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 12861 Posts

@subspecies said:

This thread reeks of lem perspiration, and it's only going to get worse.

Meanwhile, next gen PSVR here we go!

Nah its drowning in the drool from you cows, can you stop licking the screen already lol.

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emgesp

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#468 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts
@UssjTrunks said:
@emgesp said:
@jasonofa36 said:

@emgesp: So lemme get this straight. You think Sony would release a console with a 3rd gen Ryzen, with the latest Navi architecture, at least 16gb of ram and 1tb SSD storage that will support ray-tracing(this is stupid cos even GTX 5xx of the old can support ray-tracing), and they are packed into a tiny little piece of plastic to be priced at below 500 USD?

Bahahaha, thanks for the laugh.

Nobody said the SSD will be 1TB. There will most likely be a standard HDD as well. Don't use off the shelf PC part consumer prices as a guide. Sony gets massive discounts with their semi custom chips and other parts. Ray tracing on those older cards perform extremely poorly.

Ray tracing performs poorly even on an RTX 2080TI. The technology is nowhere near functional yet. AMD doesn't even have RT compatible cards on the market yet. We're at least two GPU generations away from it running smoothly. The 2080TI can only hit 30 FPS at 4K with a handful of highly optimized games.

Well one thing its early days and developers haven't had the time to truly optimized their engines to handle ray-tracing.

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#469  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts
@pc_rocks said:

1. Average PC doesn't mean anything. Average PC is your workstation PC yet Sony were competing with gaming PC's. They know they are lying and reeling in the stupid casuals by making them think they are buying some uber PC with PS4 which was false. What they produced is mid range 2010 PC.

4. Here's what I replied to Ron: It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update. They need the hardware to transmit and work with these extra bits.

5. Yeah because 'Dynamic 4K' isn't lying. How marketing checkerboard as something revolutionary and making it sound like Pro alone can do it while PS4 can't isn't lying.

Anyway, I cam in this thread to say Cerny isn't an architect by any means and I did. I also proved he lied in the past as well as the current Sony leadership at multiple occasions. At this point in time I can't take anything that Sony says seriously unless I can see it. Sony have been lying since at least the PS2 days.

1. I'm talking about average gaming PCs, not workstation.

4. Everything you said is a moot point because OG PS4 does indeed do true HDR. There is absolutely zero evidence to your claim that the firmware update didn't unlock 10bit color. Until you can demonstrate OG PS4 faking HDR in every game you need to stop claiming it as so.

5. You do realize PS4 Pro games run at a higher native resolution than the original PS4 before being upscaled right? You can't checkerboard 1080p to 4K and have it look as good as Pro that averages 1600 - 1800p native before checkerboarding to 4K. Sony never said anything about it being revolutionary. They were simply explaining how they were going to get games looking good at 4K. At least they never claimed Pro would do Native 4K in all games. Sony didn't lie about shit when it came to checkerboard rendering. Again, show the evidence. You are seriously making up your own narrative about Sony that never happened.

Here's my evidence. Show me an example of Cerny lying while he's talking about upscaling rendering techniques in this video.

https://youtu.be/FELeq6eAglU?t=168

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#470 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 3432 Posts

Looking at the specs I can't see this console being below £499.

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#471 BigBadBully
Member since 2006 • 2170 Posts

@son-goku7523: it's cool if you want to pay more to eat the Same food, some of us can still enjoy the reduced price for brunch.

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Son-Goku7523

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#472  Edited By Son-Goku7523
Member since 2019 • 955 Posts
@BigBadBully said:

@son-goku7523: it's cool if you want to pay more to eat the Same food, some of us can still enjoy the reduced price for brunch.

The thing though is you're not eating the same food. MS is giving you junk straight out of the gutter and rotten food like Crackdown 3 while Sony is serving world class gourmet meals from 5 star restaurants chefs like God of War. You literally get what you pay for. Given the option I'd rather pay more for quality, I don't have a taste for trash and stale food, and neither do most gamers and that's why MS continues to struggle against Sony.

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#473 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 6512 Posts
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ronvalencia

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#474  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@pc_rocks said:
@ronvalencia said:

4. https://support.playstation.com/s/article/PS4-How-to-get-HDR?language=en_US

PS4 supports HDR 1920x1080p.

To support HDR, Xbox One S includes slightly higher TFLOPS and memory bandwidth over the original XBO.

I know Sony claims it but where is the evidence it's real HDR with 10 bit color. I searched and can't find any evidence or reviews on PS4's HDR capabilities.

It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update.

Read Sony's link again. Look at system requirements.

Optimize Your PS4™ and HDR Experience

For the best HDR experience, we highly recommend the following:

2K/4K HDR capable TV that supports the HDR10 format.

PS4™ is connected to the TV with a Premium HDMI cable.

Play or watch HDR enabled content, like games or streaming video service.

PS4™ has system software 4.0 or later installed.

R9-290X (renamed as R9-390X) supports HDR10 format when the display supports it. PS4's IGP is with Hawaii GCN generation.

PS4's IGP is effectively Hawaii GCN with half of CU and ROPS units count. PS4's GPU is effectively Hawaii Lite and it's slightly different from GCN 1.0 Pitcairn.

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ronvalencia

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#475  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@UssjTrunks said:
@emgesp said:
@jasonofa36 said:

@emgesp: So lemme get this straight. You think Sony would release a console with a 3rd gen Ryzen, with the latest Navi architecture, at least 16gb of ram and 1tb SSD storage that will support ray-tracing(this is stupid cos even GTX 5xx of the old can support ray-tracing), and they are packed into a tiny little piece of plastic to be priced at below 500 USD?

Bahahaha, thanks for the laugh.

Nobody said the SSD will be 1TB. There will most likely be a standard HDD as well. Don't use off the shelf PC part consumer prices as a guide. Sony gets massive discounts with their semi custom chips and other parts. Ray tracing on those older cards perform extremely poorly.

Ray tracing performs poorly even on an RTX 2080TI. The technology is nowhere near functional yet. AMD doesn't even have RT compatible cards on the market yet. We're at least two GPU generations away from it running smoothly. The 2080TI can only hit 30 FPS at 4K with a handful of highly optimized games.

RTX 2080 Ti (TU102) is only 12 nm product based on 16 nm Volta GV100 with RT cores that accelerates BHV search tree and intersect workloads.

Volta with HBM v2 was turned into GDDR6 enabled Turing.

Volta was the first CUDA GPU with proper Async Compute hardware.

7nm Ampere follows after 12 nm Turing.

AMD follows a similar pattern, Vega II with HBM v2 leads to NAVI with GDDR6. At the same clock speed, Vega II shows general improvements for ray-tracing workloads when compared to 1st generation Vega 56/64.

AMD has to master 8 ROPS per 32bit bus design to compete against NVIDIA's raster scaling.

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#476  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@pc_rocks said:
@goldenelementxl said:
@emgesp said:
@Pedro said:

Maybe, maybe not. The reality is that Navi caters for consoles just like the current GPUs in consoles which is also found on PC (just stronger versions). This notion you have been pushing that Navi was specifically designed and co-design with Sony, for the PS5 is simply false.

I'm saying Sony and AMD colaborated with the Navi design from early on with PS5 in mind. We will have to wait for confirmation from Cerny, but credible people with inside sources have said its true.

Mark Cerny: Hey Lisa, we are getting ready to start production of the next gen PlayStation products.

Lisa Su: What do you have in mind?

Cerny: We need low TDP. Something that doesn't run hot, and yet performs better than what the competition currently offers

Su: So not Vega or Jaguar?

Cerny: LOL, no.

And BOOM, Creny becomes a lead system architect, designer and creator of Navi and Zen. I wonder when's Intel going to fire Raja and hire him.

ZEN project was a parallel project along with Bulldozer project. Some key engineers at AMD continued to work on scaling K10 design in their free time i.e. believer for wide CPU core design from Alpha EV6 design concepts.

ZEN version 1.x recycled Piledriver's 128bit AVX floating point units IP.

Raja has nothing to do with ZEN.

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ronvalencia

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#477  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@drlostrib said:
@ronvalencia said:
@drlostrib said:

Welp, this got Ron-ed

Commence the poorly cobbled together techno babble and charts, and the rest of us will just wait for when none of his calculations and figures come to fruition.

See y'all in 2020

1. Xbox One X GPU has near Vega ROPS and multi-MB cache design.

2. Xbox One X CPU has latency reduction with Ryzen CCX layout design.

Try again.

I assumed MS would follow Sony on rapid pack maths compute improvement, but MS has decided to improve rasterization path instead.

Vega includes improvements with rapid pack math (Sony's push) compute AND rasterization path (MS's push).

Both Sony and MS are funding AMD's GPU improvements.

MS is pushing for BVH search ray-tracing method.

Radeon Rays 2.0 is BVH search ray-tracing method.

Radeon Ray's real time ray tracing results without Tensor de-noise pass.

Loading Video...

Sony/MS wants NVIDIA's GPU tech without paying NVIDIA's cost and Sony/MS is pushing AMD for the budget/low profit margin version.

De-noise pass allows the GPU speed up ray-tracing render to free up compute resource for raster compute workload.

NVIDIA's RT cores further frees up compute resource for raster compute workload.

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#478 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3401 Posts

@Addict187 said:
@jeezers said:
@goldenelementxl said:

@jeezers: I understand not needing the newest upgrade, but 4K tv’s have been on store shelves since like 2013. Did you wait more than 6-7 years to jump on the HD bandwagon too?

lol i dont get why people care about this, nah i had a 720p around when they had just came out, then a 1080p, eventually replaced the 720 with a bigger 1080 like 2 years ago. both my TVs get the job done, just me and the girlfriend dont need 3 Tvs or 4k

if you don't want a 4k tv good on you. But I do want one and went and got one, and like it very much.

im not trying to make anyone feel bad for buying a 4k TV

i just dont need one lol

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#479 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:

1. Average PC doesn't mean anything. Average PC is your workstation PC yet Sony were competing with gaming PC's. They know they are lying and reeling in the stupid casuals by making them think they are buying some uber PC with PS4 which was false. What they produced is mid range 2010 PC.

4. Here's what I replied to Ron: It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update. They need the hardware to transmit and work with these extra bits.

5. Yeah because 'Dynamic 4K' isn't lying. How marketing checkerboard as something revolutionary and making it sound like Pro alone can do it while PS4 can't isn't lying.

Anyway, I cam in this thread to say Cerny isn't an architect by any means and I did. I also proved he lied in the past as well as the current Sony leadership at multiple occasions. At this point in time I can't take anything that Sony says seriously unless I can see it. Sony have been lying since at least the PS2 days.

1. I'm talking about average gaming PCs, not workstation.

4. Everything you said is a moot point because OG PS4 does indeed do true HDR. There is absolutely zero evidence to your claim that the firmware update didn't unlock 10bit color. Until you can demonstrate OG PS4 faking HDR in every game you need to stop claiming it as so.

5. You do realize PS4 Pro games run at a higher native resolution than the original PS4 before being upscaled right? You can't checkerboard 1080p to 4K and have it look as good as Pro that averages 1600 - 1800p native before checkerboarding to 4K. Sony never said anything about it being revolutionary. They were simply explaining how they were going to get games looking good at 4K. At least they never claimed Pro would do Native 4K in all games. Sony didn't lie about shit when it came to checkerboard rendering. Again, show the evidence. You are seriously making up your own narrative about Sony that never happened.

Here's my evidence. Show me an example of Cerny lying while he's talking about upscaling rendering techniques in this video.

https://youtu.be/FELeq6eAglU?t=168

1. No matter how you try to spin it. Cerny lied to the teeth about PS4 and Pro. It was at best a low tier PC from 2010.

4. No, the onus is on you. I already proved that HDR required HDMI 2.0 and support for 10 bit color. Your defense for Sony by just sticking to bandwidth has no merit. How do you pass 10bit color when hardware can only do 8bit? That's like saying 8bit game consoles can be upgraded to 16bit via firmware. The real world example also exists that MS only support HDR on XBone S and not the original bone.

5. Excuses. They did lied and talked as if checkerboarding could only be done on Pro and it's revolutionary. Yes, they did lie to the teeth about it and put it under the 'Dynamic 4K' label. The entire reveal talked about 4K and yet tried to avoid and downplay native in the entire conference. Their entire conference was centered round a simple upscaling and tried to get credit for something that developers had to do and have been doing before Sony wrapped it under the checkerboarding label.

Mark Cerny and SOny are habitual liars and have been constantly lying since at least PS2. My first post already outlined the instances for this very gen.

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#480  Edited By PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@pc_rocks said:
@ronvalencia said:

4. https://support.playstation.com/s/article/PS4-How-to-get-HDR?language=en_US

PS4 supports HDR 1920x1080p.

To support HDR, Xbox One S includes slightly higher TFLOPS and memory bandwidth over the original XBO.

I know Sony claims it but where is the evidence it's real HDR with 10 bit color. I searched and can't find any evidence or reviews on PS4's HDR capabilities.

It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update.

Read Sony's link again. Look at system requirements.

Optimize Your PS4™ and HDR Experience

For the best HDR experience, we highly recommend the following:

2K/4K HDR capable TV that supports the HDR10 format.

PS4™ is connected to the TV with a Premium HDMI cable.

Play or watch HDR enabled content, like games or streaming video service.

PS4™ has system software 4.0 or later installed.

R9-290X (renamed as R9-390X) supports HDR10 format when the display supports it. PS4's IGP is with Hawaii GCN generation.

PS4's IGP is effectively Hawaii GCN with half of CU and ROPS units count. PS4's GPU is effectively Hawaii Lite and it's slightly different from GCN 1.0 Pitcairn.

TV that supports HDR10. My question is how do you transmit 10 bit color from an HDMI chip that only supports 8 bit? PS4 has HDMI 1.4a not 1.4b or HDMI 2.0 or Display Port. Funny thing is the same question is posted on PS4 Reddit yet there's no answer.

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#481 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 35693 Posts

@drlostrib: He just might be austistic.

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#482  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts
@pc_rocks said:
@emgesp said:

1. No matter how you try to spin it. Cerny lied to the teeth about PS4 and Pro. It was at best a low tier PC from 2010.

4. No, the onus is on you. I already proved that HDR required HDMI 2.0 and support for 10 bit color. Your defense for Sony by just sticking to bandwidth has no merit. How do you pass 10bit color when hardware can only do 8bit? That's like saying 8bit game consoles can be upgraded to 16bit via firmware. The real world example also exists that MS only support HDR on XBone S and not the original bone.

5. Excuses. They did lied and talked as if checkerboarding could only be done on Pro and it's revolutionary. Yes, they did lie to the teeth about it and put it under the 'Dynamic 4K' label. The entire reveal talked about 4K and yet tried to avoid and downplay native in the entire conference. Their entire conference was centered round a simple upscaling and tried to get credit for something that developers had to do and have been doing before Sony wrapped it under the checkerboarding label.

Mark Cerny and SOny are habitual liars and have been constantly lying since at least PS2. My first post already outlined the instances for this very gen.

1. PS4 was not low tier in 2013. It was midrange. 7850/7870 was midrange GPUs during that time. Only the CPU could be classified as low tier.

4. I don't know the details, but clearly they made it work. Again, no evidence that proves they are faking HDR. Bring some evidence and then we can talk.

5, There is nothing wrong with the term "Dynamic 4K". Sony and Cerny made it quite clear that PS4 Pro was mainly relying on new upscaling/reconstruction techniques to get to 4K. Also, it was the PS4 Pro that first introduced checkerboard rendering to video games, it was a brand new technique never used in gaming before. Checkerboard rendering is not the same type of upscaling you find in your 4K TV. If checkerboard rendering offered no improvement over your average upscaler in a 4K TV then OG PS4 games would look just as detailed as Pro enhanced games, but they don't. Checkerboard Rendering when done right clearly has a noticeable advantage.

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#483  Edited By PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:
@emgesp said:

1. No matter how you try to spin it. Cerny lied to the teeth about PS4 and Pro. It was at best a low tier PC from 2010.

4. No, the onus is on you. I already proved that HDR required HDMI 2.0 and support for 10 bit color. Your defense for Sony by just sticking to bandwidth has no merit. How do you pass 10bit color when hardware can only do 8bit? That's like saying 8bit game consoles can be upgraded to 16bit via firmware. The real world example also exists that MS only support HDR on XBone S and not the original bone.

5. Excuses. They did lied and talked as if checkerboarding could only be done on Pro and it's revolutionary. Yes, they did lie to the teeth about it and put it under the 'Dynamic 4K' label. The entire reveal talked about 4K and yet tried to avoid and downplay native in the entire conference. Their entire conference was centered round a simple upscaling and tried to get credit for something that developers had to do and have been doing before Sony wrapped it under the checkerboarding label.

Mark Cerny and SOny are habitual liars and have been constantly lying since at least PS2. My first post already outlined the instances for this very gen.

1. PS4 was not low tier in 2013. It was midrange. 7850/7870 was midrange GPUs during that time. Only the CPU could be classified as low tier.

4. I don't know the details, but clearly they made it work. Again, no evidence that proves they are faking HDR. Bring some evidence and then we can talk.

5, There is nothing wrong with the term "Dynamic 4K". Sony and Cerny made it quite clear that PS4 Pro was mainly relying on new upscaling/reconstruction techniques to get to 4K. Also, it was the PS4 Pro that first introduced checkerboard rendering to video games, it was a brand new technique never used in gaming before. Checkerboard rendering is not the same type of upscaling you find in your 4K TV. If checkerboard rendering offered no improvement over your average upscaler in a 4K TV then OG PS4 games would look just as detailed as Pro enhanced games, but they don't. Checkerboard Rendering when done right clearly has a noticeable advantage.

1. It was. It has less memory, lesser CPU, lesser bandwidth, lesser quality HDD and pertty much everything. GPU is one component which it self was equal to a mid tier GPU from 2010 - GTX 570. It's a shitty system through and through and in way can be termed as a cuper charged PC. Mark Cerny is a certified liar.

4. The onus is on you. Fight the laws of physics and HDMI association all you want. It's Sony's burden and yours as a corporate apologist to provide prove it does. Where is the hardware to support HDR?

5. No it isn't because 99% of Pro games don't run a single frame at 4K. I have written extensively on it before. Dynamic 4K actually has a positive co notation because you assume there some Dynamic content like metadata, dynamic colors etc. with 4K. They outright lied. No, checkerboarding has been in used in games e.g. Quantum Break used temporal re-projection and similar techniques on Xbone. Ryse used similar upscaling on Xbone in 2013. Sony just coined the term checkerboarding and tried to claim someone's esle's work as their not to mention Pro can't do checkerboarding on its own. Devs code it for each game.

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#484  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts

@pc_rocks said:

1. It was. It has less memory, lesser CPU, lesser bandwidth, lesser quality HDD and pertty much everything. GPU is one component which it self was equal to a mid tier GPU from 2010 - GTX 570. It's a shitty system through and through and in way can be termed as a cuper charged PC. Mark Cerny is a certified liar.

4. The onus is on you. Fight the laws of physics and HDMI association all you want. It's Sony's burden and yours as a corporate apologist to provide prove it does. Where is the hardware to support HDR?

5. No it isn't because 99% of Pro games don't run a single frame at 4K. I have written extensively on it before. Dynamic 4K actually has a positive co notation because you assume there some Dynamic content like metadata, dynamic colors etc. with 4K. They outright lied. No, checkerboarding has been in used in games e.g. Quantum Break used temporal re-projection and similar techniques on Xbone. Ryse used similar upscaling on Xbone in 2013. Sony just coined the term checkerboarding and tried to claim someone's esle's work as their not to mention Pro can't do checkerboarding on its own. Devs code it for each game.

1. Consoles generally don't need quite as much memory as a PC to get similar performance. PC has way more overhead and requires more overall memory.

4. No, the burden of proof is on you because you made the initial claim that PS4 did fake HDR without showing evidence.

5. Checkerboarding is a different technique than temporal injection. They are not all the same. Again nobody said checkerboarding makes PS4 Pro games true 4K, Sony did not lie. Cerny specifically said, "With these techniques we can come close to realizing the full potential of 4K displays." Again, you are writing your own narrative.

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ronvalencia

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#485  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@pc_rocks said:
@ronvalencia said:
@pc_rocks said:
@ronvalencia said:

4. https://support.playstation.com/s/article/PS4-How-to-get-HDR?language=en_US

PS4 supports HDR 1920x1080p.

To support HDR, Xbox One S includes slightly higher TFLOPS and memory bandwidth over the original XBO.

I know Sony claims it but where is the evidence it's real HDR with 10 bit color. I searched and can't find any evidence or reviews on PS4's HDR capabilities.

It's not just a bandwidth issue because you need 10 bit color instead of 8 bits, no firmware update can make these hardware changes unless the hardware already supported it which is not true as HDR and HDCP specs weren't even finalized when PS4 was released. It's like saying you can increase RAM from 4GB to 8GB via a firmware update.

Read Sony's link again. Look at system requirements.

Optimize Your PS4™ and HDR Experience

For the best HDR experience, we highly recommend the following:

2K/4K HDR capable TV that supports the HDR10 format.

PS4™ is connected to the TV with a Premium HDMI cable.

Play or watch HDR enabled content, like games or streaming video service.

PS4™ has system software 4.0 or later installed.

R9-290X (renamed as R9-390X) supports HDR10 format when the display supports it. PS4's IGP is with Hawaii GCN generation.

PS4's IGP is effectively Hawaii GCN with half of CU and ROPS units count. PS4's GPU is effectively Hawaii Lite and it's slightly different from GCN 1.0 Pitcairn.

TV that supports HDR10. My question is how do you transmit 10 bit color from an HDMI chip that only supports 8 bit? PS4 has HDMI 1.4a not 1.4b or HDMI 2.0 or Display Port. Funny thing is the same question is posted on PS4 Reddit yet there's no answer.

HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011.

Hawaii GCN can generate digital data for HDMI 2.0 HDR10 at HDMI 1.4 bit rate.

Do you do realize that 4:2:0 can be 10bit or 8bit right?

My 32 inch LG monitor has FreeSync + HDR10 + HDMI 2.0a and DisplayPort. I can connect my old 4770K + MSI R9-290X Gaming X (similar vintage to PS4) to it.

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#486  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts

@ronvalencia: Bringing in the facts and evidence to back it up. Some people like the person you quoted just blindy want to hate on Sony for no good reason at all and come up with completely fake narratives. OG PS4 does true HDR = Fact.

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#487  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts

Perhaps that SemiAccurate leak from this time last year wasn't that far off afterall. These are the specs that leaker claimed. The SSD is what threw everyone off and what made it seem fake, but now that SSD was confirmed perhaps these are the legit specs. 14.20 Tflops isn't technically impossible and the 32GBs could always just be what devkits have.

  • 100% backwards compatible with PS4 games
  • Fully compatible with PS VR and PlayStation Move offering a improved VR experience
  • CPU: AMD Zen 8 cores - single-chip custom processor
  • GPU: 14.20 TFLOPS, AMD Navi-based graphics engine
  • Memory: 32GB GDDR6 technology
  • Storage - 1TB SSD

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#488 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

Just wanted to thank everybody for taking the 8k bait. Y'all are the real MVPs of the thread. Cheers to the biggest non-E3 in history.

#TheNDAsAreReal

#SoundOfSilence

#SonyUpToOldTricks

#FlushingTheBackCatalog

#HypeorGames

#ThankYouForYourParticipation

#AttentionSpanofInsects

#GenOverBeforeItBegan

#NintendoIsTheOnlyCompetition

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#489 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13425 Posts
@emgesp said:

Perhaps that SemiAccurate leak from this time last year wasn't that far off afterall. These are the specs that leaker claimed. The SSD is what through everyone off and what made it seem fake, but now that SSD was confirmed perhaps these are the legit specs. 14.20 Tflops isn't technically impossible and the 32GBs could always just be what devkits have.

  • 100% backwards compatible with PS4 games
  • Fully compatible with PS VR and PlayStation Move offering a improved VR experience
  • CPU: AMD Zen 8 cores - single-chip custom processor
  • GPU: 14.20 TFLOPS, AMD Navi-based graphics engine
  • Memory: 32GB GDDR6 technology
  • Storage - 1TB SSD

I'm calling 18-24GB GDDR6 and 256 GB SSD.

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#490 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts
@Zero_epyon said:
@emgesp said:

Perhaps that SemiAccurate leak from this time last year wasn't that far off afterall. These are the specs that leaker claimed. The SSD is what through everyone off and what made it seem fake, but now that SSD was confirmed perhaps these are the legit specs. 14.20 Tflops isn't technically impossible and the 32GBs could always just be what devkits have.

  • 100% backwards compatible with PS4 games
  • Fully compatible with PS VR and PlayStation Move offering a improved VR experience
  • CPU: AMD Zen 8 cores - single-chip custom processor
  • GPU: 14.20 TFLOPS, AMD Navi-based graphics engine
  • Memory: 32GB GDDR6 technology
  • Storage - 1TB SSD

I'm calling 18-24GB GDDR6 and 256 GB SSD.

Your ram size seems about right, but 256GB for SSD will be too low if they don't also add a standard HDD.

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#491  Edited By hofuldig
Member since 2004 • 5126 Posts

@Zero_epyon: the PS5 will have 12 or 16GB of GDDR6, if it is indeed zen2 there are huge gains in IPC, the first zen release Vs bulldozer (similar to cpu in PS4) is around 50% faster clock for clock, 16GB of GDDR5 is cheap, like it will cost sony less than $100 per console for 16 gigs, same with the CPU, probably be around $60 per chip, the rest is easy stuff, the PS5 will be $399 if you look at bulk pricing or what big corps get for discounts when buying large quantities.

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#492  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts

@hofuldig said:

@Zero_epyon: the PS5 will have 12 or 16GB of GDDR6, if it is indeed zen2 there are huge gains in IPC, the first zen release Vs bulldozer (similar to cpu in PS4) is around 50% faster clock for clock, 16GB of GDDR5 is cheap, like it will cost sony less than $100 per console for 16 gigs, same with the CPU, probably be around $60 per chip, the rest is easy stuff, the PS5 will be $399 if you look at bulk pricing or what big corps get for discounts when buying large quantities.

Sony is going to use GDDR6 not GDDR5. And below is what to expect in CPU gains over PS4/Pro's Jaguar cores.

https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/1118548239513468928?s=20

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#493 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

@hofuldig: People aren't looking at the math the same way Sony is. Gen9 is a special two-for deal where they can both hold on to market share and eliminate a competitor by playing their cards right.

The revenue generated by PS4 this generation is, to some degree, a war chest that Sony needs to pay forward to keep the train on the tracks. They will never admit it, of course, but it is the wise move to dig into the pockets and put their hurt on an industry that they can more-or-less corner before another widely accepted brand like Amazon can sink their teeth into the pie.

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#494 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts
@Shewgenja said:

@hofuldig: People aren't looking at the math the same way Sony is. Gen9 is a special two-for deal where they can both hold on to market share and eliminate a competitor by playing their cards right.

The revenue generated by PS4 this generation is, to some degree, a war chest that Sony needs to pay forward to keep the train on the tracks. They will never admit it, of course, but it is the wise move to dig into the pockets and put their hurt on an industry that they can more-or-less corner before another widely accepted brand like Amazon can sink their teeth into the pie.

Sony right now probably wants people and their competition to think the console will cost $499.99 just so they can announce in their official PS5 reveal that it will actually cost less.

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#495 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:

1. It was. It has less memory, lesser CPU, lesser bandwidth, lesser quality HDD and pertty much everything. GPU is one component which it self was equal to a mid tier GPU from 2010 - GTX 570. It's a shitty system through and through and in way can be termed as a cuper charged PC. Mark Cerny is a certified liar.

4. The onus is on you. Fight the laws of physics and HDMI association all you want. It's Sony's burden and yours as a corporate apologist to provide prove it does. Where is the hardware to support HDR?

5. No it isn't because 99% of Pro games don't run a single frame at 4K. I have written extensively on it before. Dynamic 4K actually has a positive co notation because you assume there some Dynamic content like metadata, dynamic colors etc. with 4K. They outright lied. No, checkerboarding has been in used in games e.g. Quantum Break used temporal re-projection and similar techniques on Xbone. Ryse used similar upscaling on Xbone in 2013. Sony just coined the term checkerboarding and tried to claim someone's esle's work as their not to mention Pro can't do checkerboarding on its own. Devs code it for each game.

1. Consoles generally don't need quite as much memory as a PC to get similar performance. PC has way more overhead and requires more overall memory.

4. No, the burden of proof is on you because you made the initial claim that PS4 did fake HDR without showing evidence.

5. Checkerboarding is a different technique than temporal injection. They are not all the same. Again nobody said checkerboarding makes PS4 Pro games true 4K, Sony did not lie. Cerny specifically said, "With these techniques we can come close to realizing the full potential of 4K displays." Again, you are writing your own narrative.

1. What abunch of garbage. Is that why they have shitty textures, low AF, no AA, long loading times, pop-in? PS4 was a shitty low end machine in 2013 that's barely comparable to 2010's mid tier PC. Anyway, all of that are excuses and drifting away fro the point. Mark Creny lied to the teeth.

2. And I already proved it, it doesn't have the hardware to do it and all you did in defense was I don't know how but they did, which is lame at best. Funny no third party source, reviewer or anything has done any piece on original PS4 HDR capabilities not even the PS4 reddit and the same question is quite a common theme there. PS4 does fake HDR, google 8bit dithering to know that. That's the technique many TV's and device use to claim they do HDR but it's not true HDR just a way to simulate the real HDR.

5. Cerny did lie and yes, checkerboarding is pretty similar to temporal reconstruction not to mention Crytek did used checkerboadring on RYse for Xbone they just didn't call it that. They called it their custom upscaler. Again Cerny and Sony tried to claim someone else work as their own and tried to pass it off a revolutionary just like GG did for KZ:SF.

SO, it's proven Cerny is not an architect by a long shot and current Sony continued their tradition to lie since at least the PS2 days. You have brought zero evidence to back you up with constant goal post moves and excuses.

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#496  Edited By PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@pc_rocks said:
@ronvalencia said:

Read Sony's link again. Look at system requirements.

Optimize Your PS4™ and HDR Experience

For the best HDR experience, we highly recommend the following:

2K/4K HDR capable TV that supports the HDR10 format.

PS4™ is connected to the TV with a Premium HDMI cable.

Play or watch HDR enabled content, like games or streaming video service.

PS4™ has system software 4.0 or later installed.

R9-290X (renamed as R9-390X) supports HDR10 format when the display supports it. PS4's IGP is with Hawaii GCN generation.

PS4's IGP is effectively Hawaii GCN with half of CU and ROPS units count. PS4's GPU is effectively Hawaii Lite and it's slightly different from GCN 1.0 Pitcairn.

TV that supports HDR10. My question is how do you transmit 10 bit color from an HDMI chip that only supports 8 bit? PS4 has HDMI 1.4a not 1.4b or HDMI 2.0 or Display Port. Funny thing is the same question is posted on PS4 Reddit yet there's no answer.

HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011.

Hawaii GCN can generate digital data for HDMI 2.0 HDR10 at HDMI 1.4 bit rate.

Do you do realize that 4:2:0 can be 10bit or 8bit right?

My 32 inch LG monitor has FreeSync + HDR10 + HDMI 2.0a and DisplayPort. I can connect my old 4770K + MSI R9-290X Gaming X (similar vintage to PS4) to it.

I do realize 4:2:0 can be 8 bit and 10 it however 4:2:0 is compressed and not representative of the true color space.

Lastly, I never questioned the GPU is incapable of HDR, I specifically said that PS4 didn't have HDMI 2.0 to pass 10bit HDR. Unless you can prove that HDMI 1.4 can do HDR all of that is irrelevant. I need evidence that HDMI 1.4 can do HDR not GPU, not PS4 hardware not monitors or TVs. Simple.

Here's your ownage:

How did Sony do HDR without the hardware for it? You can't change the hardware but just updating the firmware. Sony is faking HDR on original PS4.

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#497  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7832 Posts
@pc_rocks said:

1. What abunch of garbage. Is that why they have shitty textures, low AF, no AA, long loading times, pop-in? PS4 was a shitty low end machine in 2013 that's barely comparable to 2010's mid tier PC. Anyway, all of that are excuses and drifting away fro the point. Mark Creny lied to the teeth.

2. And I already proved it, it doesn't have the hardware to do it and all you did in defense was I don't know how but they did, which is lame at best. Funny no third party source, reviewer or anything has done any piece on original PS4 HDR capabilities not even the PS4 reddit and the same question is quite a common theme there. PS4 does fake HDR, google 8bit dithering to know that. That's the technique many TV's and device use to claim they do HDR but it's not true HDR just a way to simulate the real HDR.

5. Cerny did lie and yes, checkerboarding is pretty similar to temporal reconstruction not to mention Crytek did used checkerboadring on RYse for Xbone they just didn't call it that. They called it their custom upscaler. Again Cerny and Sony tried to claim someone else work as their own and tried to pass it off a revolutionary just like GG did for KZ:SF.

SO, it's proven Cerny is not an architect by a long shot and current Sony continued their tradition to lie since at least the PS2 days. You have brought zero evidence to back you up with constant goal post moves and excuses.

1. PS4/PS4 Pro doesn't have shitty textures. They might not be as good as High - Ultra settings on PC, but for the most part they look great. Also plenty of PS4/Pro titles have some form of AA, so again you are making crap up. Regardless of how you feel about the specs, the PS4 objectively put out some of the best looking games in the past 5 yrs, so there is that.

2. You didn't prove shit, you made assumptions and Ron proved you wrong. OG PS4 obviously can pass 10 bit color through its HDMI, regardless of what you think. If OG PS4 HDR was fake then you'd be seeing countless articles talking about it, but guess what there isn't a single one. Digital Foundry would have made a video about it by now if what you said were true.

3. They never claimed they invented checkerboard rendering. They simply talked about those techniques because PS4 Pro wasn't going to be doing native 4K in most games and so they wanted to be honest that Pro would mainly rely on more advanced upscaling algorithms. Cerny is a well respected figure in the video game business. He has made incredible contributions to this business and to call him nothing but a liar shows your ignorance. I'm done with this talk because you are just an obvious Sony basher based on your comments.

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#498 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2596 Posts

@emgesp said:
@pc_rocks said:

1. What abunch of garbage. Is that why they have shitty textures, low AF, no AA, long loading times, pop-in? PS4 was a shitty low end machine in 2013 that's barely comparable to 2010's mid tier PC. Anyway, all of that are excuses and drifting away fro the point. Mark Creny lied to the teeth.

2. And I already proved it, it doesn't have the hardware to do it and all you did in defense was I don't know how but they did, which is lame at best. Funny no third party source, reviewer or anything has done any piece on original PS4 HDR capabilities not even the PS4 reddit and the same question is quite a common theme there. PS4 does fake HDR, google 8bit dithering to know that. That's the technique many TV's and device use to claim they do HDR but it's not true HDR just a way to simulate the real HDR.

5. Cerny did lie and yes, checkerboarding is pretty similar to temporal reconstruction not to mention Crytek did used checkerboadring on RYse for Xbone they just didn't call it that. They called it their custom upscaler. Again Cerny and Sony tried to claim someone else work as their own and tried to pass it off a revolutionary just like GG did for KZ:SF.

SO, it's proven Cerny is not an architect by a long shot and current Sony continued their tradition to lie since at least the PS2 days. You have brought zero evidence to back you up with constant goal post moves and excuses.

1. PS4/PS4 Pro doesn't have shitty textures. They might not be as good as High - Ultra settings on PC, but for the most part they look great. Also plenty of PS4/Pro titles have some form of AA, so again you are making crap up. Regardless of how you feel about the specs, the PS4 objectively put out some of the best looking games in the past 5 yrs, so there is that.

2. You didn't prove shit, you made assumptions and Ron proved you wrong. OG PS4 obviously can pass 10 bit color through its HDMI, regardless of what you think. If OG PS4 HDR was fake then you'd be seeing countless articles talking about it, but guess what there isn't a single one. Digital Foundry would have made a video about it by now if what you said were true.

3. They never claimed they invented checkerboard rendering. They simply talked about those techniques because PS4 Pro wasn't going to be doing native 4K in most games and so they wanted to be honest that Pro would mainly rely on more advanced upscaling algorithms. Cerny is a well respected figure in the video game business. He has made incredible contributions to this business and to call him nothing but a liar shows your ignorance. I'm done with this talk because you are just an obvious Sony basher based on your comments.

1. It has shitty textures and shitty AA to no AA and yes, they have a shit tier hardware even in 2013. Anyway, all conjecture and not relevant to the point. Sony/Mark Cerny lied about the PS4 as usual. We are not discussing graphics here but the claims of (non) architect Mark Cerny - the liar.

2. No he didn't. He keeps babbling about GPU and bandwidth, those are irrelevant. Your conjecture and hoping it does because there are no articles doesn't prove my evidence. Where's the hardware to do it? There's no DF video even talking about HDR on PS4 yet they made and talked about it on Pro and XBone S. Sony as usual kept on lying.

3. Cerny is a well respected figure and made contributions to gaming....LAMO, how? BY wrongly claiming to be an architect? His credentaisl include shitty games like Knack and that's about it. He's just incharge of passing SOny's requirements to AMD and that's it. He's a fucking liar and so is current Sony. They have constantly lying since PS2 days. You're done because you have been handed your a$$ over to you and can't refute anything with evidence even after multiple goalpost moves. They lied about PS4 in 2013, they lied about it in 2016, they lied about the Pro, they lied about the KZ:SF, they lied about UC4, they lied about cross-play. They always lie. Now i'm done after owning you.

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#499 phbz
Member since 2009 • 4717 Posts

What's the point of 8k if you can't show boobs?

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#500  Edited By 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23254 Posts

@pc_rocks said:

1. It has shitty textures and shitty AA to no AA and yes, they have a shit tier hardware even in 2013. Anyway, all conjecture and not relevant to the point. Sony/Mark Cerny lied about the PS4 as usual. We are not discussing graphics here but the claims of (non) architect Mark Cerny - the liar.

2. No he didn't. He keeps babbling about GPU and bandwidth, those are irrelevant. Your conjecture and hoping it does because there are no articles doesn't prove my evidence. Where's the hardware to do it? There's no DF video even talking about HDR on PS4 yet they made and talked about it on Pro and XBone S. Sony as usual kept on lying.

1. As one who has fought the rabid Sony fanboys in 2013 suggesting PS4 was s fast or faster than a Pc with high end gpus like the 7970. The GPU in the PS4 wasn't shit for the time frame it released in. It wasn't bad (on par with 7850), but what holds it back is the cpu and lack of memory for beyond 900p-1080p gaming. Mark Cerny is known to twist stuff, exaggerate, use marketing orientated terms to sell a product. Such as PS4 Pro's "Secret Sauce" (with its FP 16 bit processing) telling the public it can make the console an 8.2 TFLOP beast.... Which is false.

2. Even though Ron likes to rabble with tangents..... However HDR is possible with HDMI 1.4, you can not however send a 4k signal through it. You need HDMI 2.0+. PS4 can output HDR signal.