"PS4 can render 1080p/60fps with room to spare” -Kojima

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sora16perfect

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#201  Edited By sora16perfect
Member since 2007 • 730 Posts

The gap will never close or even get to the point where the ps4 is only slightly beating out the XB1. Like what people have said before, if anything it'll probably get bigger. The fact is that the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1 and nothing can change that. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. There should be no graphics debate between consoles this gen because there is nothing that can possibly put these two consoles on par.

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NFJSupreme

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#202 NFJSupreme
Member since 2005 • 6605 Posts

1080p and 60fps isn't for the xbone unless you want games to look no better than Forza. Lems should just admit defeat on this aspect. It's getting silly now. The PS4 is a step above the xbone in terms of power. Seriously why try to argue at this point? You only make yourself look silly.

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Shielder7

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#203 Shielder7
Member since 2006 • 5191 Posts

@cainetao11 said:

@jmann1553 that is the point though. Last Gen, cows said they were so much more powerful, and used lazy devs as an excuse. Now, last Gen consoles were "almost identical"? The goal posts keep moving to support the cow agenda

Um no the cell was completely different so no last Gen consoles were NOT "almost identical"

This Gen they are they're using the same AMD chips as well as the same architecture.

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Shielder7

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#204 Shielder7
Member since 2006 • 5191 Posts

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos:

you so funny trollmaster torm old engines gonna stay behind on the path of greatness if you want to have the best game and best looking game WHICH IS ON THE X1 physical base rendering instead of the old way deferred but I understand you gonna come back with something sooooooo lame as you always do.

How about coming back with this.

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tormentos

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#205 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@shawn30 said:

1. Launching the PS3 at $599 bucks with the CEO telling you that if you can't afford it go and get another job. Laughable, stupid, arrogant and unlike DRM, Sony actually did this. http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/06/sony-wants-you-to-earn-that-playstation-3/

2. Playstation network hacked. The PlayStation Network outage was the result of an "external intrusion" on Sony's PlayStation Network and Qriocity services, in which personal details from approximately 77 million accounts were stolen and prevented users of PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Portable consoles from playing online through the service. The attack occurred between April 17 and April 19, 2011,forcing Sony to turn off the PlayStation Network on April 20. On May 4 Sony confirmed that personally identifiable information from each of the 77 million accounts appeared to have been stolen. The outage lasted 24 days. You are trusting a company that let 77 million customers personal data get hacked and the entire network being down for 24 freaking days. Again, DRM never happened. This did.

3. Cell processor. Touted as the next big thing that would revolutionize gaming and have a grand place outside of gaming for more practical purposes. It costed the company nearly 100 million in dev costs, never eclipsed the 360's multiplayer performances, was dropped by IBM and Sony and is nowhere to be seen outside of the PS3. Sony fans were told to expect it to change the world. You believed it would. Now its nowhere to be found.Again, this actually happened. DRM did not.

I could go into the technical suckage of PSN for years, or I could move on to Sony corporates many activities but what would be the point cause you will white wash and damage control anything Sony has ever done and the financial shape they are in simply because you blindly worship the company. I know you can find many links to many things MS has done wrong as well, both gaming division wise and corporate. The thing is I have no allusions about them or any other multi-billion dollar company. I do not trust them. I simply buy their products or services if they fit my needs and entertain me. Trying to make a case that one is a better, nicer, friendly multi-billion dollar ruthless corporation shows a degree of naivete and stupidity that cannot be denied.

1-Saying that they want you to get a second job to get the unit is nothing bad at all and not even close to fu**ing charing $50 dollars for 6 years and then $60 for 5 years more.

You didn't have to in fact i didn't get a second job to buy a PS3 on launch,it was an expression you idiot.

2-PSN was hacked on 2011 5 years after the PS3 was launch on a network that was given to you free of freaking charge,the whole 77 million account was sh** and sony put a 1 million dollar policy which not a single PSN owner ever need it to ask for,because nothing happen the actual number were never compromised and the policy wasn't claim by a single PSN owner.

But wait data theft happen all the damn time Target was just hit by one recently and endless companies have loss data of consumers.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/xbox-live-hacked-accounts-stolen/131

Since 2007 xbox live account had been stole and money spent,in fact one attack was blame on Bungie and MS deny it,we all know how MS didn't deny problems with the xbox 360 hardware right.? 2 years denying high RROD fail rates.?

http://www.edge-online.com/news/major-nelson-xbox-live-account-hacked/

Major Nelson own account was hacked...hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

http://kotaku.com/5873604/is-microsofts-xbox-live-hacking-problem-worse-than-microsoft-realises

http://kotaku.com/5913228/report-how-scammers-are-stealing-xbox-live-accounts-and-what-they-do-with-them

They even trick MS customer service into giving account up that sad it was..

3-Why the fu** do you even name Cell as something bad sony did.? It is clear by now that you are a butthurt moron who is searching for the smallest thing to complain about sony,Cell is a damn CPU that pulled GPU task,it was so freaking great that it actually help a console with a weaker GPU over come one with a stronger GPU,if it wasn't for Cell the PS3 would have never have games like Uncharted or GOW3 or superior multiplatforms like GTA5.

Basically you are searching for any stupidity to flame sony..

Charging for online play.

Introducing Micro transactions.

Putting a pay wall over apps that are free every where.

Intentionally black mailing developers to stop them from putting extra content on Blu-ray disc,by introducing a clause that demanded parity,essentially blocking 3rd party from doing so,and threatening them with not allowing the games to be release on 360.

Same policy for DL games if they didn't ship the same day they would block it.

Blocking 3rd parties from releasing free content and forcing 3rd parties to charge for content,L4D2 DLC was free on steam,it was $7 dollars on xbox 360,even that valve wanted to give it free.

First to rise games from $50 to $60 at the start of the xbox 360 generation.

Rushing a console knowingly with a horrible fail rate in order to beat their competitor,deny defects for 2 years and charged people $150 for more than a year for repairs.

Killing the xbox in 4 short years.

I know there are more..

@Jakandsigz said:

I like how still nobody has actually read the article, in which they don't say this, and say with the new SDK they can run 1080p comfortably.

Yeah Tomb Raider showed that... lol...

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: ok, tormented, save this, print it out put it on your wall if need be. The PS4 is more powerful, we all know that. But Multiplat games can look better on the Xbox one than they do. Not better than your girlfriend, the ps4 but better than what we're being shown. So since they can look better, not better than ps4, but better, than the reason they're not must be lazy devs. Is that better? Your precious console has been singled out three times in this post as being more powerful. I'm still going to buy the X1 along with a ps4.

And for the 10 time moron i know xbox games can look better than they do it is launch it will get better,but the fu**ing PS4 will also get better you idiot and the gap will remain the same.

I don't know it what other freaking way to explain it to you,the PS4 will also improve so yeah,if your car runs at 60 miles per hour and mine does 80,and you fine tune it to do 80mph it still mean little because i also fine tune mine and is doing 100 now..

I really hope you get this analogy this instead of going around in circles like a blind lemming.

@Tessellation said:

@tymeservesfate said:

did any cows actually read the article yet. this thread is even debunk by the title of the article alone lol:

"Xbox One’s eSRAM Too Small to Output Games At 1080p But Will Catch up to PS4"

not to mention what was said in the actual article:

"Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves? “Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”"

smh, play fair cows...stop trolling.

these virgin basement dwellers like OP will always read what is better for their eyes,that sick and nasty obsession over plastic objects blinds them.

You can taste the tears on the drunk spambot...hahahaha

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Tighaman

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#206 Tighaman
Member since 2006 • 1038 Posts

@Shielder7:

And after all of that is still graphic king

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tormentos

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#207  Edited By tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts
@cainetao11 said:

@jmann1553 that is the point though. Last Gen, cows said they were so much more powerful, and used lazy devs as an excuse. Now, last Gen consoles were "almost identical"? The goal posts keep moving to support the cow agenda

There is no goal post moving dude WTF.?

What part of the PS3 is not the xbox one you don't understand.?

The PS3 was powerful but hard the xbox one is weaker and hard,no matter how much developers try they will not get both console to perform equal,is not been lazy man WTF hell do i have to quote Mark Rubin from Activision talking about how Ghost is 720p on xbox one and saying it wasn't lack of trying.?

BF4 is also the same to you are a sad blind lemming.

@RR360DD said:

"...but it doesn't mean it's far less powerful: it's just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell."

"They are releasing a new SDK that's much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One"

"We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it's got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There's stuff you can and can't do because it's a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn't have that. PS4 is just a games machine."

LOL off the shelf machine confirmed. I'm glad MS actually decided to build a complex fully customised machine rather than taking Sonys lazy approach. The XOne may seem to be in a weak position right now but when the software starts to come out and everything starts slotting together it'll feel like a generation ahead of the PS4.

Thank god that time is one of the things i will have the most to make fun of you when the xbox one keep failing to achieve parity with the PS4 year after year..lol

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos:

you so funny trollmaster torm old engines gonna stay behind on the path of greatness if you want to have the best game and best looking game WHICH IS ON THE X1 physical base rendering instead of the old way deferred but I understand you gonna come back with something sooooooo lame as you always do.

Don't worry i am sure with the next update the xbox one will be 4Tf...lol

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clone01

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#208  Edited By clone01
Member since 2003 • 29822 Posts

Whole lot of reactionary stuff here. Is the Order crap because is runs at 30fps?

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killzowned24

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#209 killzowned24
Member since 2007 • 7345 Posts

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos:

you so funny trollmaster torm old engines gonna stay behind on the path of greatness if you want to have the best game and best looking game WHICH IS ON THE X1 physical base rendering instead of the old way deferred but I understand you gonna come back with something sooooooo lame as you always do.

Loading Video...

http://www.slideshare.net/guerrillagames/lighting-of-killzone-shadow-fall

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#210 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

@draign said:

I find it interesting that the Dev says the XB1 will eventually catch up, but doesnt detail how. Hmmmmm.

Maybe they are saving that news for Microsoft.

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#211 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

@sora16perfect said:

The gap will never close or even get to the point where the ps4 is only slightly beating out the XB1. Like what people have said before, if anything it'll probably get bigger. The fact is that the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1 and nothing can change that. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. There should be no graphics debate between consoles this gen because there is nothing that can possibly put these two consoles on par.

This. /thread

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Tessellation

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#212 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9297 Posts

Sorry but i can't hear you all over that broken English,lol poor butthurt eltormo,my comment made him angry.

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no-scope-AK47

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#213 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

Not sure how the xflop can ever catch up. The ps4 is just faster all around and does not have the cam/mic always on using cpu/memory like the xflop either. The devs now have to try to jam 1080p assets into 32mb of memory and that is just not going to work unless they scale back the settings.

If anything the gap should get bigger as devs bring out 2nd and 3rd gen next gen games. The ps4 will have room to grow and the xflop will hit a wall. I personally can't wait to see Naughty Gods next game. I also can't wait to see the next God of War either it still looks good even for a console game.

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ronvalencia

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#214  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos said:

1-Saying that they want you to get a second job to get the unit is nothing bad at all and not even close to fu**ing charing $50 dollars for 6 years and then $60 for 5 years more.

You didn't have to in fact i didn't get a second job to buy a PS3 on launch,it was an expression you idiot.

2-PSN was hacked on 2011 5 years after the PS3 was launch on a network that was given to you free of freaking charge,the whole 77 million account was sh** and sony put a 1 million dollar policy which not a single PSN owner ever need it to ask for,because nothing happen the actual number were never compromised and the policy wasn't claim by a single PSN owner.

But wait data theft happen all the damn time Target was just hit by one recently and endless companies have loss data of consumers.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/xbox-live-hacked-accounts-stolen/131

Since 2007 xbox live account had been stole and money spent,in fact one attack was blame on Bungie and MS deny it,we all know how MS didn't deny problems with the xbox 360 hardware right.? 2 years denying high RROD fail rates.?

http://www.edge-online.com/news/major-nelson-xbox-live-account-hacked/

Major Nelson own account was hacked...hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

http://kotaku.com/5873604/is-microsofts-xbox-live-hacking-problem-worse-than-microsoft-realises

http://kotaku.com/5913228/report-how-scammers-are-stealing-xbox-live-accounts-and-what-they-do-with-them

They even trick MS customer service into giving account up that sad it was..

3-Why the fu** do you even name Cell as something bad sony did.? It is clear by now that you are a butthurt moron who is searching for the smallest thing to complain about sony,Cell is a damn CPU that pulled GPU task,it was so freaking great that it actually help a console with a weaker GPU over come one with a stronger GPU,if it wasn't for Cell the PS3 would have never have games like Uncharted or GOW3 or superior multiplatforms like GTA5.

Basically you are searching for any stupidity to flame sony..

CELL's SPU is NOT a CPU. Should I repost IBM's "DSP like" statements?

http://public.dhe.ibm.com/software/dw/power/pdfs/pa-cmpware1/pa-cmpware1-pdf.pdf

"The collection of processors in a Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.) processor displays a DSP-like architecture." - direct quote from IBM

I will continue to repost the fact.

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cainetao11

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#215  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@Shielder7: hey talk to jmann1553. He said it, not me. The point is last gen the devs were lazy for not getting the multiplats to run at top performance on ps3. So, with X1 being harder to program for this gen, the same can be used. Personally, I thought it was a BS excuse last gen, and would be this gen. But I love pointing out how full of BS the largest group of fanboys is. They move the goal posts, pretend they are the under dog when they are the world wide favorite.

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cainetao11

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#216  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@tormentos: since you wanna take it to the level of personal insults, you got it, you fuckin keyboard warrior pussy. The point of me saying ps4 is more powerful 3 times in that last post was to show its not about comparing the two consoles, ballbag brain. Let it go. Let it go. Not everything is an attack on your precious PS4. Its an attack on the non sense Cows like you hide behind, and then rationalize and spin, and move to feed your bullshit love of a corporation, that doesn't know who u are.

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ronvalencia

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#217  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts
@Shielder7 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@jmann1553 that is the point though. Last Gen, cows said they were so much more powerful, and used lazy devs as an excuse. Now, last Gen consoles were "almost identical"? The goal posts keep moving to support the cow agenda

Um no the cell was completely different so no last Gen consoles were NOT "almost identical"

This Gen they are they're using the same AMD chips as well as the same architecture.

Memory programming model would be different.

Effective AMD PRT (Partially Resident Textures) usage requires two memory pools with different speeds i.e. textures in the smaller/faster memory pool is said to be "Partially Resident" when the rest of the textures are in slower/larger memory pool. Having a single large/fast memory pool defeats the purpose for "Partially Resident". Dear Tormentos doesn't understand this difference.

AMD PRT is basically texture tiling i.e. it loads the required texture tiles into smaller fast memory prior to TMU consumption.

PS4's 18 CU > X1's 12 CU, but the difference between the two boxes are relatively minor when Radeon HD R9-290X has 44 CUs.

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ronvalencia

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#218  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos said:


This is not my opinion is a fact look it up MS promise 720p with 4XAA minimum,and could not achieve it because tilling was a problem on xbox one as well.

MSAA wasn't designed for deferred rendering.

@tormentos said:
@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: how many games have you developed for either console? For any fuckin console? So I'm supposed to take your word over a developer's? Dude, admit it, you're caught. Lazy devs, was cow battle cry last gen, and a dev says X1 is basically in the ps3 position this gen, in other words, harder to develop for, so lazy devs has to apply. You don't get to cry foul, then disregard the ones who know.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/778?vs=777

Find me a game that performs better on the 7770 than on the 7850 and you win...

Unlike 7770's 72 GB/s, X1's has the option to improve via 32 MB ESRAM(when combined with it's 68 GB/s main memory), but it wouldn't be enough to beat a retail 7850.

When programmed for 32MB ESRAM/AMD PRT(tiling tricks), the best outcome for X1 would be similar to the prototype 7850 with 12 CUs at 860Mhz and 153.6 GB/s memory.

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btk2k2

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#219 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts

@ronvalencia said:

Unlike 7770's 72 GB/s, X1's has the option to improve via 32 MB ESRAM(when combined with it's 68 GB/s main memory), but it wouldn't be enough to beat a retail 7850.

When programmed for 32MB ESRAM/AMD PRT(tiling tricks), the best outcome for X1 would be similar to the prototype 7850 with 12 CUs at 860Mhz and 153.6 GB/s memory.

When the ESRAM is not used the performance delta between the X1 and the PS4 will be similar to the delta between the 7770 and the 7850.

When the ESRAM is used though I do not think it will sustain the a performance delta of the 7850 prototype vs the retail 7850, it will likely peak at that difference but in sustained workloads the actual delta will be larger, although not 7770 vs retail 7850 large. To sustain the prototype 7850 vs retail 7850 delta would require the assumption that all GPU data is either coming from the ESRAM or is not too bandwidth sensitive, while it might be true I think that assumption is a bit of a leap with the current evidence we have and little solid data.

the point @tormentos makes though is valid and I can see you agree with it. There is no way the 7770, or the prototype 7850 will outperform the retail 7850 and as such there is no way the X1 GPU will outperform the PS4 GPU.

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tormentos

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#220 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@ronvalencia said:

CELL's SPU is NOT a CPU. Should I repost IBM's "DSP like" statements?

http://public.dhe.ibm.com/software/dw/power/pdfs/pa-cmpware1/pa-cmpware1-pdf.pdf

"The collection of processors in a Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.) processor displays a DSP-like architecture." - direct quote from IBM

I will continue to repost the fact.

And where in hell did i claim that.? Quote me moron...

I say the Cell CPU could pull GPU task which is true or are you going to argue that to.?

Cell has a PPE and is classified as a CPU moron,Cell was basically and early day APU if you will,but regardless of what it was my argument wasn't that and you are a MORON who can't read well and is the reason why you always argue things no one is arguing..

The only fact here is that you are a moron who can't fallow and argument,quote me saying that SPU are CPU,oh by the way those SPU are clocked at 3.2 ghz just like the main PPE is and have their own space or cache like just like a CPU would, and basically people consider them like cores alto they are clearly not cores.

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: since you wanna take it to the level of personal insults, you got it, you fuckin keyboard warrior pussy. The point of me saying ps4 is more powerful 3 times in that last post was to show its not about comparing the two consoles, ballbag brain. Let it go. Let it go. Not everything is an attack on your precious PS4. Its an attack on the non sense Cows like you hide behind, and then rationalize and spin, and move to feed your bullshit love of a corporation, that doesn't know who u are.

You are a blind lemming who refuse to admit that this gen is not the last one,period the xbox one and PS3 may have something in common,but been powerful isn't one of them.

The non sense come from lemmings like you not cows the whole developers been lazy on PS3 was proven right,GTA4 and RDR perform better on xbox 360,how come GTA5 performs better on PS3.?

Bigger investment more time to develop.?

Hell first PS3 games didn't even use SPU on Cell,all developers didn't.

The xbox one is not getting lazy developers it has problems beyond the controls of developers,the sole fact that MS will release a patch to increase performance says it all dude,if developers are stock with a weak under performing platform what the fu** can't they do to fix it.? Hell Activision even asked MS to allow them to use the extra 10% GPU and MS refuse doesn't sound like been lazy to me,they had all the intention on the world to make the game work at its best and they could not.

@ronvalencia said:
@Shielder7 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@jmann1553 that is the point though. Last Gen, cows said they were so much more powerful, and used lazy devs as an excuse. Now, last Gen consoles were "almost identical"? The goal posts keep moving to support the cow agenda

Um no the cell was completely different so no last Gen consoles were NOT "almost identical"

This Gen they are they're using the same AMD chips as well as the same architecture.

Memory programming model would be different.

Effective AMD PRT (Partially Resident Textures) usage requires two memory pools with different speeds i.e. textures in the smaller/faster memory pool is said to be "Partially Resident" when the rest of the textures are in slower/larger memory pool. Having a single large/fast memory pool defeats the purpose for "Partially Resident". Dear Tormentos doesn't understand this difference.

AMD PRT is basically texture tiling i.e. it loads the required texture tiles into smaller fast memory prior to TMU consumption.

PS4's 18 CU > X1's 12 CU, but the difference between the two boxes are relatively minor when Radeon HD R9-290X has 44 CUs.

No it doesn't what GCN has 2 memory pools.?it has 1 pool of GDDR5,unless you are counting DDR3 as video memory..

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/Partially%2520Resident%2520Textures%2520on%2520Next-Generation%2520GPUs.v04.pps&sa=U&ei=VzD6Us6GD4f90wHXuoH4DA&ved=0CCIQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFVE2q6TGU3-7lDz3EZKImNlD6QPw

It just a damn way to not have all textures at the same time on the VIDEO MEMORY,you do know that while the PS4 has a unified memory,certain part can't be access by the GPU right.? For all intended purposes the GPU would see this partition as a different pool of memory inaccessible just like DDR3 is on PC.

Read that document from AMD it self,in not place talk about needing 2 difference memory pools with with different speeds,and no GCN comes with 2 memory pools at least not from the 7750 and up that i know off.

In fact that document doesn't say sh** about system memory at all.

http://develop.scee.net/files/presentations/gceurope2013/ParisGC2013Final.pdf

Please scroll to page 36 this is from sony own PDF...lol

Spare me your sh** and damage control the PS4 support PRT STATED BY SONY...

Prove me wrong with a link from SONY saying other wise or your full of sh**...hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

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cainetao11

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#221  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@tormentos: The xbox one is not getting lazy developers it has problems beyond the controls of developers,the sole fact that MS will release a patch to increase performance says it all dude,if developers are stock with a weak under performing platform what the fu** can't they do to fix it.? Hell Activision even asked MS to allow them to use the extra 10% GPU and MS refuse doesn't sound like been lazy to me,they had all the intention on the world to make the game work at its best and they could not.- So let me get this straight, if a dev says something that backs you up, its legit. if it backs up what i'm saying its not? And I'm a blind lem? you really don't see the picking and choosing you're doing?

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#222 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

MSAA wasn't designed for deferred rendering.

Unlike 7770's 72 GB/s, X1's has the option to improve via 32 MB ESRAM(when combined with it's 68 GB/s main memory), but it wouldn't be enough to beat a retail 7850.

When programmed for 32MB ESRAM/AMD PRT(tiling tricks), the best outcome for X1 would be similar to the prototype 7850 with 12 CUs at 860Mhz and 153.6 GB/s memory.

I didn't say it was... I say MS claimed the minimum resolution for the xbox 360 would be 720p with 4XAA.

No dude i have tell you this 100 times already,it doesn't matter if you give the 7770 190Gb/s bandwidth it will still be a 7770 it weak and under power and having more bandwidth will not solve that,else AMD would have a 7770 with the bandwidth of the 7950 or more..

In fact the xbox one is under performing worse that any banchmark could predict.

The 7850 does like 13 FPS more than the 7770 in Tomb Raider,at 1920x1200 which is a little higher than 1080p while kipping the same quality levels and effects,the PS4 does an average of 21 FPS more to 30FPS more in many instances,while having better effects,better textures,and full resolution effects.

That gap is way bigger than it should between both consoles,the xbox one is under performing badly.

Please Ronvalencia explain to me how in HELL the difference between the PS4 and the xbox one is as big as the gap between the 7950 and the 7770.

Look at the average 29 FPS on the 7770 59FPS on the 7950,Tomb Raider on PS4 actually show a gap that big in many instances the xbox one at 30 the PS4 at 60 FPS,that is the gap between the 7770 and 7950.

The gap is mostly 20 or 21 FPS on PS4 vs Xone the gap between the 7770 and the 7870 is 23 FPS almost as big on average is almost as big as the xbox one vs PS4 gap.

Oh and those gaps i just quoted on PC are using the same assets across all GPU,the xbox one also has lower quality effects,effects with half the resolution as on PS4,lower resolution textures as well,900p cut scenes alto on Beyond3D some claim this difference step over gameplay some times to.

So Ron please explain to me how is it possible for the PS4 to has such a huge gap which you consider small because you hide on PC GPU.

@btk2k2 said:


the point @tormentos makes though is valid and I can see you agree with it. There is no way the 7770, or the prototype 7850 will outperform the retail 7850 and as such there is no way the X1 GPU will outperform the PS4 GPU.

He doesn't want to admit it,the gap in tomb raider is as big as the gap that the 7950 has over the 7770 at times,double the frames,that is not something small,hell those gaps are achieve while the cards keep the same visuals quality and resolution and effects,which isn't the case either with Tomb Raider the gap is so huge 20FPS on average faster that almost 7870 vs 7770 difference,but some times extend to 30 which is 7950 vs 7770 while the xbox one version has,half resolution effects in places,lower quality effects on others,lower resolution textures and 900p cut scenes.

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#223 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts
@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: So let me get this straight, if a dev says something that backs you up, its legit. if it backs up what i'm saying its not? And I'm a blind lem? you really don't see the picking and choosing you're doing?

.What developer claimed that they were been lazy with the xbox one.?

Please link me to it..

Put me in your shoes when you were told this was going to be the case. I assume your engineering team explains to you this is the way it has to be. How did you guys react internally? Could Microsoft engineers not have helped?

Mark Rubin: It's not a thing, like pointing to the day he came and said... It wasn't like that. It's a long process. And we're always working with both platforms. There were Microsoft engineers there throughout development. They were always there. There wasn't an event, per se. There wasn't a meeting. It was just something that developed over time. Everybody was involved.

Mark Rubin: It's very possible we can get it to native 1080p. I mean I've seen it working at 1080p native. It's just we couldn't get the frame rate in the neighbourhood we wanted it to be.

And it wasn't a lack of effort.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-04-xbox-one-resolutiongate-call-of-duty-ghosts-dev-infinity-ward-responds

It wasn't lack of effort (lazy) Mark Rubin even state that MS own freaking engineer were they helping them and still the game couldn't reach 1080p 60 FPS it was 720p...

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#224 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@tormentos: what developer claimed to be lazy on developing for the ps3?

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#225  Edited By Krelian-co
Member since 2006 • 13274 Posts

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: what developer claimed to be lazy on developing for the ps3?

let it go dude, let it go, he already made you look like a fool.

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#226 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: what developer claimed to be lazy on developing for the ps3?

Non but i didn't claim they did,you are saying that when developers agree with you is invalid,so what developer agree with you on developers been lazy.

On PS3 it was obvious developers were not even using SPU from cell,and the PS3 GPU was weaker than the 360.

In this case even activision asked MS to allow them to use the extra 10% reserve,wait MS engineers actually were there all the time alone side Activision helping,yet activision didn't claim the same thing for the PS4,so the whole argument about been lazy is stupid to begin with,the xbox one will improve so will the PS4 so the gap will remain.

@Krelian-co said:

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: what developer claimed to be lazy on developing for the ps3?

let it go dude, let it go, he already made you look like a fool.

I don't know why he can't understand it really,Activision was clear they even got help from MS,and yet Tomb Raider show the biggest gap yet.

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#227 StormyJoe
Member since 2011 • 7806 Posts

I call shenanigans on the way that was presented. Here is the interview on IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/10/sniper-elite-dev-explains-xbox-one-1080p-difficulties

BTW: Major ownage of people like @tormentos@Krelian-co@Animal-Mother@GrenadeLauncher and others :

  1. I said the differences will be ironed out by developer experience with the hardware and an improved SDK, developer said the same
  2. I said the XB1 was more than just a gaming machine ( media hub), while the PS4 was just a gaming machine, developer said the same

Stormy shoots! He scores! HA HA HA HA!!!!

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#228  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@tormentos: "Non but i didn't claim they did,you are saying that when developers agree with you is invalid,so what developer agree with you on developers been lazy.

On PS3 it was obvious developers were not even using SPU from cell,and the PS3 GPU was weaker than the 360.

In this case even activision asked MS to allow them to use the extra 10% reserve,wait MS engineers actually were there all the time alone side Activision helping,yet activision didn't claim the same thing for the PS4,so the whole argument about been lazy is stupid to begin with,the xbox one will improve so will the PS4 so the gap will remain."

You just proved my point. Youre a cow punk, that will always slurp on Kaz' rod

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#229 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@Krelian-co: You really think anyone on this board, that isn't a Cow, believes that statement?

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#231 tdkmillsy  Online
Member since 2003 • 5819 Posts

Its pretty obvious the Xbox One is under performing.

The benchmarks don't make sense when comparing equivalent pc cards.

Equivalent PC cards don't take into consideration the ESRAM

Developers said the SDK and drivers where behind.

Updates coming to improve performance

Better SDK's now in developer hands.

Yet the PS4 has no news about any updates coming.

Will it catchup to PS4 no

FPS will be less or resolution will be less, but it will be 10fps or 900p against 1080p.

Which really isn't a problem and your not going to choose a console for the graphical difference when you have a preference for controller or multiplayer features for example.

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#232 I_can_haz
Member since 2013 • 6511 Posts

@tormentos said:
@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: So let me get this straight, if a dev says something that backs you up, its legit. if it backs up what i'm saying its not? And I'm a blind lem? you really don't see the picking and choosing you're doing?

.What developer claimed that they were been lazy with the xbox one.?

Please link me to it..

Put me in your shoes when you were told this was going to be the case. I assume your engineering team explains to you this is the way it has to be. How did you guys react internally? Could Microsoft engineers not have helped?

Mark Rubin: It's not a thing, like pointing to the day he came and said... It wasn't like that. It's a long process. And we're always working with both platforms. There were Microsoft engineers there throughout development. They were always there. There wasn't an event, per se. There wasn't a meeting. It was just something that developed over time. Everybody was involved.

Mark Rubin: It's very possible we can get it to native 1080p. I mean I've seen it working at 1080p native. It's just we couldn't get the frame rate in the neighbourhood we wanted it to be.

And it wasn't a lack of effort.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-04-xbox-one-resolutiongate-call-of-duty-ghosts-dev-infinity-ward-responds

It wasn't lack of effort (lazy) Mark Rubin even state that MS own freaking engineer were they helping them and still the game couldn't reach 1080p 60 FPS it was 720p...

lol owned. ou just destroyed cainetao11 and the other dumbass lems in this thread.

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#233  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@I_can_haz: I love when you're in my notifications. I want to put the lady in your avvy's breasts on my forehead. Why do you use that avatar instead of a nice homo erotic pic of you and tormentos?

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#234 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos:

You just proved my point. Youre a cow punk, that will always slurp on Kaz' rod

No i just made you look like a fool,even Activision Mark Rubin stated pretty clear it wasn't lack of effort,and they even have MS engineers by their side all the time...hahahaa

Speaking with Videogamer, the game’s producer told the site that the team is aiming for 30 frames per second and reiterated that Microsoft is helping out on the technical end of development.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/08/22/dead-rising-3-team-aiming-for-30-fps-microsoft-helping-to-improve-performance/

I will make you look even more sad...

hahahaha MS also helped Capcom with DR3,and still the game has frames issues,crappy graphics and is 720p...

I tell you that so call lazy developers argument is falling down fast....lol

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#235 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts
@StormyJoe said:

I call shenanigans on the way that was presented. Here is the interview on IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/10/sniper-elite-dev-explains-xbox-one-1080p-difficulties

BTW: Major ownage of people like @tormentos@Krelian-co@Animal-Mother@GrenadeLauncher and others :

  1. I said the differences will be ironed out by developer experience with the hardware and an improved SDK, developer said the same
  2. I said the XB1 was more than just a gaming machine ( media hub), while the PS4 was just a gaming machine, developer said the same

Stormy shoots! He scores! HA HA HA HA!!!!

1-There is no closing the gap and you also say the difference you be 3 to 5 frames,when is more like from 20 to 30 like i say,and that with the xbox one version of the game having worse textures,worse effects and 900p cut scenes vs 1080p cut scenes on PS4.

He is been polite about the xbox just like many developers have already be polite,even Kujima say the were about the same,but now he was force to admit the PS4 version of its game look better..lol

Just like Activision claimed that Ghost would be 1080p and was downgrade to 720p.

Ryse was say to be 1080p on E3 with 150k polygon models,downgrade to 900p with 85k polygon models.

Developers can tell you the xbox one will be 10 times more powerful,and you will eat it an proclaim it here even when games are under performing badly.

In fact Albert Panello and major nelson both told people there the difference was small and that people would see it once both launch,and we saw the difference and hell is anything but small up to 100% difference in frames up to 100% difference in resolution or both like BF4 show.

2-Since when you need HDMI to be a freaking multi media console.? even the PS2 was a multi media console,games,movies,music,multi media refer to devices that can do more than 1 thing,watching movies,gaming,hearing music,the PS4 is as much media player as the xbox one i,the only crappy thing the xbox one does better is TV guide and is basically a redundant crap which i don't need to do.

But the bottom line is clear - across a range of media tests, both Xbox One and PS4 have their issues, while the last-gen PlayStation 3 copes brilliantly in almost all scenarios.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-ps4-vs-xbox-one-which-is-the-better-media-player

If he believes the PS4 isn't a multi media machine then he is as dumb as you are,and would confirm he is been a suck up to MS..

Hell look at DF it say the PS3 is a better multi media machine right now that the xbox one and PS4..lol

@tdkmillsy said:

Its pretty obvious the Xbox One is under performing.

The benchmarks don't make sense when comparing equivalent pc cards.

Equivalent PC cards don't take into consideration the ESRAM

Developers said the SDK and drivers where behind.

Updates coming to improve performance

Better SDK's now in developer hands.

Yet the PS4 has no news about any updates coming.

Will it catchup to PS4 no

FPS will be less or resolution will be less, but it will be 10fps or 900p against 1080p.

Which really isn't a problem and your not going to choose a console for the graphical difference when you have a preference for controller or multiplayer features for example.

The xbox one could have 8 GB of ram with the bandwidth of the 7970 and still mean sh**, because it would still be a weak ass GPU.

Is like putting the most expensive racing tyres on a hyundai Accent and expected it to run like a damn Ferrari...

Is not the tryes bitch the problem is under the hood...hahahah

Sony basically announces updates to improve performance,the PS3 went from 125 MB on launch that it uses for OS to 50 MB now and was basically in stealth mode.

And considering that is MS who has to make noise to try to silent those speaking about the huge gap in performance between the last versions of Tomb Raider release i don't think you will see sony talk about updates to performance what need to be done will be done,just like they did with the PS3.

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#236 StormyJoe
Member since 2011 • 7806 Posts

@tormentos:

Wow. Such pathetic responses...

  1. I already admitted I was mistaken about the "3 to 5 framerate" point. So, I don't "say" it at all anymore. The fact that you keep bringing it up is kind of funny - like you have nothing else in your basket so you bring up moot points.
  2. So, the developer is lying? All the journalists are lying? All the other developers lied in their interviews? LOL!!!
  3. If you weren't so ignorant, you'd know what they are talking about with the XB1 being a media hub and the PS4 not being one.

Dude, just admit that you are wrong. I mean, week after week I throw articles and interviews your way validating what I have been saying, and you just won't admit it. How hard is it? Christ, I admit I was wrong about the 3 to 5 FPS. Go ahead and do it - you'll feel better and you won't have anymore meltdowns like your post above.

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#237 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos:

Wow. Such pathetic responses...

  1. I already admitted I was mistaken about the "3 to 5 framerate" point. So, I don't "say" it at all anymore. The fact that you keep bringing it up is kind of funny - like you have nothing else in your basket so you bring up moot points.
  2. So, the developer is lying? All the journalists are lying? All the other developers lied in their interviews? LOL!!!
  3. If you weren't so ignorant, you'd know what they are talking about with the XB1 being a media hub and the PS4 not being one.

Dude, just admit that you are wrong. I mean, week after week I throw articles and interviews your way validating what I have been saying, and you just won't admit it. How hard is it? Christ, I admit I was wrong about the 3 to 5 FPS. Go ahead and do it - you'll feel better and you won't have anymore meltdowns like your post above.

1-You say he agree with what you say.

2-

Ghost say to be 1080p on both xbox one and PS4 on June.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-11-call-of-duty-ghosts-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Ryse tag as 1080p on E3.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

Ryse say to have 150,000 polygon characters.

http://n4g.com/news/1335101/ryse-son-of-rome-technical-presentation-shows-gameplay-and-development-marius-is-150-000-polygons

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

http://pixelenemy.com/microsoft-sony-claims-more-power-every-gen-but-in-the-end-games-on-our-system-looked-the-same-or-better/

Albert is one of the most amazing people I work with – that’s why I invited him on my podcast a few weeks ago. I jab him a bit about posting on ‘GAF (fact: they would not approve my account of there) but he’s smart and driven. He’s also right: We have some of smartest programmers in the world working on Xbox One. I am very much looking forward to the next few months (and beyond) as the truth comes out.

http://pixelenemy.com/major-nelson-looking-forward-as-the-truth-comes-out-regarding-ps4-being-30-superior-vs-xbox-one/

"The difference is small, and I don't really need to worry about it," he said, suggesting versions for Xbox One and PS4 won't be dramatically different.

http://www.videogamer.com/xboxone/metal_gear_solid_5_the_phantom_pain/news/ps4_and_xbox_one_power_difference_is_minimal_says_kojima.html

Metal Gear Solid 5: Ground Zeroes "looks slightly better on the PS4 compared to the Xbox One", according to Game Informer - a feeling reportedly shared by director Hideo Kojima.

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/metal_gear_solid_ground_zeroes/news/metal_gear_solid_5_ground_zeroes_looks_slightly_better_on_ps4_than_xbox_one_kojima.html

Look, I had a lot of time to think about this and I believe in what I said. I believe that the differences between the boxes [PS4 and Xbox One] is not all that greatand I know what is going behind the scenes and I have access to more information about some of this thing than a lot of people.Sometimes people tend to neglect the points that are in my favor and they like to highlight the points that tell me I am wrong. I still think Ryse is still the best looking game on any platform. Period. End of story,” he said.

http://gamingbolt.com/albert-penello-comments-on-multiplatform-games-running-at-lower-resolutionframe-rate-on-xbox-one

Arrogant Albert panello funny how even for Tomb Raider he still dismiss the advantage as something not that great,WTF double the frames while having better textures,better effects,1080p completely is not that great.? In what freaking world is...

Hey look like he held tied to Ryse which is a damn crappy game that the only thing good that does is having great looking characters,it drops to 17 and 18 FPS runs mostly at 26 to 28 while been 900p and severely limited to anything,is basically a corridor hack and slash which even this site complains in the review.

The only thing the xbox one has over the PS4 is HDMI in and is a crappy feature to have because you need to have your cable box connected and on all the damn time,which basically kill the whole purpose,now if at least it was a TV tuner where you could hook the cable instead of your cable box to your xbox one it would have been better at least.

Yeah look at who's validating your arguments,i will bookmark this thread as well it should be fun in the coming years when the xbox one fails to get close to the PS4.

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#238 StormyJoe
Member since 2011 • 7806 Posts

@tormentos said:

@StormyJoe said:

@tormentos:

Wow. Such pathetic responses...

  1. I already admitted I was mistaken about the "3 to 5 framerate" point. So, I don't "say" it at all anymore. The fact that you keep bringing it up is kind of funny - like you have nothing else in your basket so you bring up moot points.
  2. So, the developer is lying? All the journalists are lying? All the other developers lied in their interviews? LOL!!!
  3. If you weren't so ignorant, you'd know what they are talking about with the XB1 being a media hub and the PS4 not being one.

Dude, just admit that you are wrong. I mean, week after week I throw articles and interviews your way validating what I have been saying, and you just won't admit it. How hard is it? Christ, I admit I was wrong about the 3 to 5 FPS. Go ahead and do it - you'll feel better and you won't have anymore meltdowns like your post above.

1-You say he agree with what you say.

2-

Ghost say to be 1080p on both xbox one and PS4 on June.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-11-call-of-duty-ghosts-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Ryse tag as 1080p on E3.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

Ryse say to have 150,000 polygon characters.

http://n4g.com/news/1335101/ryse-son-of-rome-technical-presentation-shows-gameplay-and-development-marius-is-150-000-polygons

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

http://pixelenemy.com/microsoft-sony-claims-more-power-every-gen-but-in-the-end-games-on-our-system-looked-the-same-or-better/

Albert is one of the most amazing people I work with – that’s why I invited him on my podcast a few weeks ago. I jab him a bit about posting on ‘GAF (fact: they would not approve my account of there) but he’s smart and driven. He’s also right: We have some of smartest programmers in the world working on Xbox One. I am very much looking forward to the next few months (and beyond) as the truth comes out.

http://pixelenemy.com/major-nelson-looking-forward-as-the-truth-comes-out-regarding-ps4-being-30-superior-vs-xbox-one/

"The difference is small, and I don't really need to worry about it," he said, suggesting versions for Xbox One and PS4 won't be dramatically different.

http://www.videogamer.com/xboxone/metal_gear_solid_5_the_phantom_pain/news/ps4_and_xbox_one_power_difference_is_minimal_says_kojima.html

Metal Gear Solid 5: Ground Zeroes "looks slightly better on the PS4 compared to the Xbox One", according to Game Informer - a feeling reportedly shared by director Hideo Kojima.

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/metal_gear_solid_ground_zeroes/news/metal_gear_solid_5_ground_zeroes_looks_slightly_better_on_ps4_than_xbox_one_kojima.html

Look, I had a lot of time to think about this and I believe in what I said. I believe that the differences between the boxes [PS4 and Xbox One] is not all that greatand I know what is going behind the scenes and I have access to more information about some of this thing than a lot of people.Sometimes people tend to neglect the points that are in my favor and they like to highlight the points that tell me I am wrong. I still think Ryse is still the best looking game on any platform. Period. End of story,” he said.

http://gamingbolt.com/albert-penello-comments-on-multiplatform-games-running-at-lower-resolutionframe-rate-on-xbox-one

Arrogant Albert panello funny how even for Tomb Raider he still dismiss the advantage as something not that great,WTF double the frames while having better textures,better effects,1080p completely is not that great.? In what freaking world is...

Hey look like he held tied to Ryse which is a damn crappy game that the only thing good that does is having great looking characters,it drops to 17 and 18 FPS runs mostly at 26 to 28 while been 900p and severely limited to anything,is basically a corridor hack and slash which even this site complains in the review.

The only thing the xbox one has over the PS4 is HDMI in and is a crappy feature to have because you need to have your cable box connected and on all the damn time,which basically kill the whole purpose,now if at least it was a TV tuner where you could hook the cable instead of your cable box to your xbox one it would have been better at least.

Yeah look at who's validating your arguments,i will bookmark this thread as well it should be fun in the coming years when the xbox one fails to get close to the PS4.

You spent all that time skirting the issue. How sad. How truly sad. Go ahead and bookmark this page. Take a picture while you are at it.

I generally ignore you for this very reason - even if you are 100% proven wrong, you never admit it. It's hilarious. People like you are the ones who wanted to behead people for saying the Earth was round.

Case in point? In the article I linked, the dev specifically adderessed that when he said:

“It means you have to do it in chunks or using tricks, tiling it and so on. It’s a bit like the reverse of the PS3. PS3 was harder to program for than the Xbox 360. Now it seems like everything has reversed but it doesn’t mean it’s far less powerful – it’s just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell.

"They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.

"At least on paper, [PS4 is] a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One."

But you just ignore that, right? That doesn't fit your argument, so it must not be true? Again, sad and pathetic.

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tdkmillsy

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#239 tdkmillsy  Online
Member since 2003 • 5819 Posts

@tormentos said:
@StormyJoe said:

I call shenanigans on the way that was presented. Here is the interview on IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/10/sniper-elite-dev-explains-xbox-one-1080p-difficulties

BTW: Major ownage of people like @tormentos@Krelian-co@Animal-Mother@GrenadeLauncher and others :

  1. I said the differences will be ironed out by developer experience with the hardware and an improved SDK, developer said the same
  2. I said the XB1 was more than just a gaming machine ( media hub), while the PS4 was just a gaming machine, developer said the same

Stormy shoots! He scores! HA HA HA HA!!!!

1-There is no closing the gap and you also say the difference you be 3 to 5 frames,when is more like from 20 to 30 like i say,and that with the xbox one version of the game having worse textures,worse effects and 900p cut scenes vs 1080p cut scenes on PS4.

He is been polite about the xbox just like many developers have already be polite,even Kujima say the were about the same,but now he was force to admit the PS4 version of its game look better..lol

Just like Activision claimed that Ghost would be 1080p and was downgrade to 720p.

Ryse was say to be 1080p on E3 with 150k polygon models,downgrade to 900p with 85k polygon models.

Developers can tell you the xbox one will be 10 times more powerful,and you will eat it an proclaim it here even when games are under performing badly.

In fact Albert Panello and major nelson both told people there the difference was small and that people would see it once both launch,and we saw the difference and hell is anything but small up to 100% difference in frames up to 100% difference in resolution or both like BF4 show.

2-Since when you need HDMI to be a freaking multi media console.? even the PS2 was a multi media console,games,movies,music,multi media refer to devices that can do more than 1 thing,watching movies,gaming,hearing music,the PS4 is as much media player as the xbox one i,the only crappy thing the xbox one does better is TV guide and is basically a redundant crap which i don't need to do.

But the bottom line is clear - across a range of media tests, both Xbox One and PS4 have their issues, while the last-gen PlayStation 3 copes brilliantly in almost all scenarios.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-ps4-vs-xbox-one-which-is-the-better-media-player

If he believes the PS4 isn't a multi media machine then he is as dumb as you are,and would confirm he is been a suck up to MS..

Hell look at DF it say the PS3 is a better multi media machine right now that the xbox one and PS4..lol

@tdkmillsy said:

Its pretty obvious the Xbox One is under performing.

The benchmarks don't make sense when comparing equivalent pc cards.

Equivalent PC cards don't take into consideration the ESRAM

Developers said the SDK and drivers where behind.

Updates coming to improve performance

Better SDK's now in developer hands.

Yet the PS4 has no news about any updates coming.

Will it catchup to PS4 no

FPS will be less or resolution will be less, but it will be 10fps or 900p against 1080p.

Which really isn't a problem and your not going to choose a console for the graphical difference when you have a preference for controller or multiplayer features for example.

The xbox one could have 8 GB of ram with the bandwidth of the 7970 and still mean sh**, because it would still be a weak ass GPU.

Is like putting the most expensive racing tyres on a hyundai Accent and expected it to run like a damn Ferrari...

Is not the tryes bitch the problem is under the hood...hahahah

Sony basically announces updates to improve performance,the PS3 went from 125 MB on launch that it uses for OS to 50 MB now and was basically in stealth mode.

And considering that is MS who has to make noise to try to silent those speaking about the huge gap in performance between the last versions of Tomb Raider release i don't think you will see sony talk about updates to performance what need to be done will be done,just like they did with the PS3.

You claim the Xbox One has a week as GPU, but the PS4 isn't much better. The performance power required to get from 900p to 1080p will take up most of the extra resources.

But there's no real point talking to you.

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tormentos

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#240  Edited By tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@StormyJoe said:

You spent all that time skirting the issue. How sad. How truly sad. Go ahead and bookmark this page. Take a picture while you are at it.

I generally ignore you for this very reason - even if you are 100% proven wrong, you never admit it. It's hilarious. People like you are the ones who wanted to behead people for saying the Earth was round.

Case in point? In the article I linked, the dev specifically adderessed that when he said:

“It means you have to do it in chunks or using tricks, tiling it and so on. It’s a bit like the reverse of the PS3. PS3 was harder to program for than the Xbox 360. Now it seems like everything has reversed but it doesn’t mean it’s far less powerful – it’s just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell.

"They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.

"At least on paper, [PS4 is] a bit more powerful.But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One."

But you just ignore that, right? That doesn't fit your argument, so it must not be true? Again, sad and pathetic.

How i was prove wrong 100% how.?

Tiling is the reason why 99% of the xbox 360 games aren't 720p with 4XAA,Tiling is the actually the problem and something developers avoid like a plague,is impossible that you don't know that about the xbox 360 hardware.

Tomb raider already runs at 1080p on xbox one,the problem is at what performance cost it does it,any game can be 1080p on xbox one,but a trade off most be made this is undeniable at this point.

Is a bit more multi media which is the same excuse other people including your self use to defend the xbox one lack of power,in fact you have even gone so far as to call the PS4 just a hardware upgrade while the xbox one is a true next gen console,my god just because the xbox one has a damn redundant HDMI in port.

How he PS4 just a game machine.?How please explain that to me because that make zero sense,and that came straightly from him.

On paper fu**ing ass..

12 CU 768 SP vs 18 CU and 1152 SP is not on paper the difference is real pretending other wise is just stupid,and he is lying where ever you want admit it or not, 12 CU GCN will never beat a 18 CU one period there is no catching up.

And is funny because instead of catching up Tomb Raider show the biggest gap yet by any game,and had more time to be completed than other game that were launch games like AC4 and Ghost which received patches on PS4 to be 1080p that rush those games were.

And that ESRAM part will be hunting the xbox one all generation long,if they don't fit now they will never it and tiling will be require just like it was require on xbox one for 720p with 4XAA.

I'll wait while you explain to my how the PS4 isn't a multimedia machine and is just a game machine like he claims.

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#241 StormyJoe
Member since 2011 • 7806 Posts

@tormentos:

Because:

  1. those are launch games. It takes a while for devs to get a handle on the hardware and API updates. The dev in the article even said as much.
  2. There are 100s of articles saying how the Xb1 is a media hub, and the PS4 is a pure gaming device. I have given you dozens of links saying that, but you just keep on ignoring them. Even fricken Sony said it - they built a gaming machine for gamers.
  3. What he said in that article is what - oh, IDK - every other developer who has also been interviewed?

Again, this is why so many people ignore you. We point out where your argument is flawed, and give reasons and links, but you just ignore the evidence and go back out your fantasy land.

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clr84651

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#242 clr84651
Member since 2010 • 5643 Posts

@freedomfreak said:

But Forza 5 runs at 1080P@60FPS.

But there's always exceptions to rules. The rule is X1 can't do it. The exceptions will be simple racers & fighters.

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clr84651

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#243  Edited By clr84651
Member since 2010 • 5643 Posts

@Gue1:

PS4 GPU & RAM >>> X1s GPU & RAM. Always has been known.

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ronvalencia

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#244  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos:

@tormentos said:
@ronvalencia said:

MSAA wasn't designed for deferred rendering.

Unlike 7770's 72 GB/s, X1's has the option to improve via 32 MB ESRAM(when combined with it's 68 GB/s main memory), but it wouldn't be enough to beat a retail 7850.

When programmed for 32MB ESRAM/AMD PRT(tiling tricks), the best outcome for X1 would be similar to the prototype 7850 with 12 CUs at 860Mhz and 153.6 GB/s memory.

I didn't say it was... I say MS claimed the minimum resolution for the xbox 360 would be 720p with 4XAA.

No dude i have tell you this 100 times already,it doesn't matter if you give the 7770 190Gb/s bandwidth it will still be a 7770 it weak and under power and having more bandwidth will not solve that,else AMD would have a 7770 with the bandwidth of the 7950 or more..

In fact the xbox one is under performing worse that any banchmark could predict.

The 7850 does like 13 FPS more than the 7770 in Tomb Raider,at 1920x1200 which is a little higher than 1080p while kipping the same quality levels and effects,the PS4 does an average of 21 FPS more to 30FPS more in many instances,while having better effects,better textures,and full resolution effects.

That gap is way bigger than it should between both consoles,the xbox one is under performing badly.

Please Ronvalencia explain to me how in HELL the difference between the PS4 and the xbox one is as big as the gap between the 7950 and the 7770.

Look at the average 29 FPS on the 7770 59FPS on the 7950,Tomb Raider on PS4 actually show a gap that big in many instances the xbox one at 30 the PS4 at 60 FPS,that is the gap between the 7770 and 7950.

The gap is mostly 20 or 21 FPS on PS4 vs Xone the gap between the 7770 and the 7870 is 23 FPS almost as big on average is almost as big as the xbox one vs PS4 gap.

Oh and those gaps i just quoted on PC are using the same assets across all GPU,the xbox one also has lower quality effects,effects with half the resolution as on PS4,lower resolution textures as well,900p cut scenes alto on Beyond3D some claim this difference step over gameplay some times to.

So Ron please explain to me how is it possible for the PS4 to has such a huge gap which you consider small because you hide on PC GPU.

@btk2k2 said:


the point @tormentos makes though is valid and I can see you agree with it. There is no way the 7770, or the prototype 7850 will outperform the retail 7850 and as such there is no way the X1 GPU will outperform the PS4 GPU.

He doesn't want to admit it,the gap in tomb raider is as big as the gap that the 7950 has over the 7770 at times,double the frames,that is not something small,hell those gaps are achieve while the cards keep the same visuals quality and resolution and effects,which isn't the case either with Tomb Raider the gap is so huge 20FPS on average faster that almost 7870 vs 7770 difference,but some times extend to 30 which is 7950 vs 7770 while the xbox one version has,half resolution effects in places,lower quality effects on others,lower resolution textures and 900p cut scenes.

Your 7770 with 190 GB/s memory bandwidth is fiction while my 12 CU GCN with 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth is real.

Your 7770's 10 CU at 1Ghz doesn't get close to replicating X1's 12 CU at 853 Mhz when compared to my prototype 7850's 12 CU at 860 Mhz. My prototype 7850 has the same ALU count, same TMU count, same Local Data Store amount, same L1 cache amount, same triangle rate as X1's GCN.

Using the old benchmark is LOL on your part. Anyone with an active TR 2013 wouldn't be using version 1.00.716 and same era drivers.

----------------

My old 7950 is not clocked at 800Mhz i.e. it's firmware clocked at 900 Mhz and it's closer to reference 7970.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review

"You will get near Radeon HD 7970 performance with this overclocked video card out-of-the-box"

7950 BE(850Mhz base, 925 Mhz turbo) is slower than 7950 with 900 Mhz base clock i.e. AMD's free firmware 7950 BE update is useless for my 7950 OC edition.

7970 GE's 86 fps vs 770's 29 fps. The frame gap is 57.

7970's 78 fps vs 770's 29 fps. The frame gap is 49.

7950 BE's 69 fps vs 7770's 29 fps. The frame gap is 40.

7870 GE's 59 fps vs 7770's 29 fps. The frame gap is 30.

Also, my current GPU is Radeon HD R9-290 and the old 7950-900Mhz is it's crossfire'd with 7970-925Mhz on my other box i.e. it's near 7990 level monster.

Don't make assumptions that I only have 7950-800Mhz.

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#245 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

Somehow this comment from Rebellion was missed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=766058

"Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves? “Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”

The PS4 is thus more of a gaming machine in its core focus. “Yeah, I mean that’s probably why, well at least on paper, it’s a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One.”

Guess I was right about the new DevKits. lol!! Of course SonyGaf closed the thread because it was something positive about the XB1. lmao!!

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#246  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos said:

@ronvalencia said:

CELL's SPU is NOT a CPU. Should I repost IBM's "DSP like" statements?

http://public.dhe.ibm.com/software/dw/power/pdfs/pa-cmpware1/pa-cmpware1-pdf.pdf

"The collection of processors in a Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.) processor displays a DSP-like architecture." - direct quote from IBM

I will continue to repost the fact.

And where in hell did i claim that.? Quote me moron...

I say the Cell CPU could pull GPU task which is true or are you going to argue that to.?

Cell has a PPE and is classified as a CPU moron,Cell was basically and early day APU if you will,but regardless of what it was my argument wasn't that and you are a MORON who can't read well and is the reason why you always argue things no one is arguing..

The only fact here is that you are a moron who can't fallow and argument,quote me saying that SPU are CPU,oh by the way those SPU are clocked at 3.2 ghz just like the main PPE is and have their own space or cache like just like a CPU would, and basically people consider them like cores alto they are clearly not cores.

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: since you wanna take it to the level of personal insults, you got it, you fuckin keyboard warrior pussy. The point of me saying ps4 is more powerful 3 times in that last post was to show its not about comparing the two consoles, ballbag brain. Let it go. Let it go. Not everything is an attack on your precious PS4. Its an attack on the non sense Cows like you hide behind, and then rationalize and spin, and move to feed your bullshit love of a corporation, that doesn't know who u are.

You are a blind lemming who refuse to admit that this gen is not the last one,period the xbox one and PS3 may have something in common,but been powerful isn't one of them.

The non sense come from lemmings like you not cows the whole developers been lazy on PS3 was proven right,GTA4 and RDR perform better on xbox 360,how come GTA5 performs better on PS3.?

Bigger investment more time to develop.?

Hell first PS3 games didn't even use SPU on Cell,all developers didn't.

The xbox one is not getting lazy developers it has problems beyond the controls of developers,the sole fact that MS will release a patch to increase performance says it all dude,if developers are stock with a weak under performing platform what the fu** can't they do to fix it.? Hell Activision even asked MS to allow them to use the extra 10% GPU and MS refuse doesn't sound like been lazy to me,they had all the intention on the world to make the game work at its best and they could not.

@ronvalencia said:
@Shielder7 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@jmann1553 that is the point though. Last Gen, cows said they were so much more powerful, and used lazy devs as an excuse. Now, last Gen consoles were "almost identical"? The goal posts keep moving to support the cow agenda

Um no the cell was completely different so no last Gen consoles were NOT "almost identical"

This Gen they are they're using the same AMD chips as well as the same architecture.

Memory programming model would be different.

Effective AMD PRT (Partially Resident Textures) usage requires two memory pools with different speeds i.e. textures in the smaller/faster memory pool is said to be "Partially Resident" when the rest of the textures are in slower/larger memory pool. Having a single large/fast memory pool defeats the purpose for "Partially Resident". Dear Tormentos doesn't understand this difference.

AMD PRT is basically texture tiling i.e. it loads the required texture tiles into smaller fast memory prior to TMU consumption.

PS4's 18 CU > X1's 12 CU, but the difference between the two boxes are relatively minor when Radeon HD R9-290X has 44 CUs.

No it doesn't what GCN has 2 memory pools.?it has 1 pool of GDDR5,unless you are counting DDR3 as video memory..

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/Partially%2520Resident%2520Textures%2520on%2520Next-Generation%2520GPUs.v04.pps&sa=U&ei=VzD6Us6GD4f90wHXuoH4DA&ved=0CCIQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFVE2q6TGU3-7lDz3EZKImNlD6QPw

It just a damn way to not have all textures at the same time on the VIDEO MEMORY,you do know that while the PS4 has a unified memory,certain part can't be access by the GPU right.? For all intended purposes the GPU would see this partition as a different pool of memory inaccessible just like DDR3 is on PC.

Read that document from AMD it self,in not place talk about needing 2 difference memory pools with with different speeds,and no GCN comes with 2 memory pools at least not from the 7750 and up that i know off.

In fact that document doesn't say sh** about system memory at all.

http://develop.scee.net/files/presentations/gceurope2013/ParisGC2013Final.pdf

Please scroll to page 36 this is from sony own PDF...lol

Spare me your sh** and damage control the PS4 support PRT STATED BY SONY...

Prove me wrong with a link from SONY saying other wise or your full of sh**...hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

LOL. Did you missed DirectX 11.2's tiled resource demo with 16MB VRAM enabled GPU?

Your not thinking on where the texture's physical representation are being stored.

AMD PRT would still work on a single unified memory, but storing texture's physical representation on the same single unified memory pool is almost pointless i.e. why add the extra complexity? If the programmer wants is make it complex like the X1 on the PS4 then it's their choice.

------------------

As for CELL being a CPU... You DID NOT read IBM's statement on SPU being "DSP like" moron.

You misdirected the information on CELL CPU being able to handle graphics when IBM's source information states "DSP like" for SPUs.

Any CPU can handle graphics processing.

http://nareshmistry101.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/swiftshader-another-3d-game-emulator.html

Unlike PS3's games, Swiftshader renders the game on just the CPU i.e. that's zero GPU 3D/NVIDIA RSX support.

From http://transgaming.com/swiftshader

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#247 sukraj
Member since 2008 • 27859 Posts

blog it up

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#248 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts

@tdkmillsy said:

@I_can_haz said:

Well duh. Only idiot lems believe that ESRAM is enough to render 1080p @ 60fps in modern games. Forza 5 is only able to do it because it uses cardboard crowds, google earth buildings, no AA, prebaked lighting, and is in a small enclosed track. It's a last gen game running at 1080p. This gen will be full of 720p or compromised framerates and effects for Xbone as the few months have shown. Better get used to inferior multiplats this gen lems. Things will only get worse as the games become more complex.

You haven't even read the info have you?

Forza 5 and all the other launch games where made with very poor dev kits, it is not an example of what the Xbox one can do. Things will only get better and games will look very similar. PS4 will be better but not by the range you are so excited about.

I_can_Haz was confirmed to be illiterate quite a few years ago.

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#249 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@ronvalencia said:

@tormentos:

Your 7770 with 190 GB/s memory bandwidth is fiction while my 12 CU GCN with 153.6 GB/s memory bandwidth is real.

Your 7770's 10 CU at 1Ghz doesn't get close to replicating X1's 12 CU at 853 Mhz when compared to my prototype 7850's 12 CU at 860 Mhz. My prototype 7850 has the same ALU count, same TMU count, same Local Data Store amount, same L1 cache amount, same triangle rate as X1's GCN.

Using the old benchmark is LOL on your part. Anyone with an active TR 2013 wouldn't be using version 1.00.716 and same era drivers.

----------------

My old 7950 is not clocked at 800Mhz i.e. it's firmware clocked at 900 Mhz and it's closer to reference 7970.


Also, my current GPU is Radeon HD R9-290 and the old 7950-900Mhz is it's crossfire'd with 7970-925Mhz on my other box i.e. it's near 7990 level monster.

Don't make assumptions that I only have 7950-800Mhz.

You don't have a 7850 12 CU t was a prototype so stop saying mine.

Second and for the 100 time link to where MS claim the xbox one GPU is Pitcairn 7850,back your sh** up and stop inventing sh**.

By the way fiction or not the 7770 with 190GB's would still be a damn 7770 period,it will not change because it doesn't have the power to take advantage of that bandwidth the 7790 has more power and barely reach 100Gb/s,stop acting stupid you know what i mean with my example.

Oh please the 7850 prototype was just a few frames away from the 7850 retail version,you posted benchmarks 100 times,the difference between the xbox one and PS4 is more than 20 FPS in Tomb Raider more than fu**ing 20 FPS in fact is 30 FPS many of the times which is 100% difference in frames.

Your 7950 is irrelevant,the one i posted is the stock one,not over clocked or the boost one so your argument is moot,in fact the benchmark you posted now had the 7950 BOOST which isn't the first model,so yeah the PS4 as big gap as 30 FPS which is double the frames which is what the stock 7950 has over the 7770 PROVEN by a benchmark.

I don't care about your PC settup idiot,the topic is Xbox one vs PS4 your PC is irrelevant are you look stupid and desperate hiding on it,fact is all your damn theories about the xbox one performing better than the 7770 fell to the floor,the 7770 on 1920x1200 runs at 29FPS on 1080p it should run even faster while keeping the same quality not doing what the xbox one is doing,having lower quality effects,lower quality textures,effects at half the resolution and 900p in cut scenes.

All your theories failed....hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

But but you claimed the a 12 CU GPU will not pass a 18 CU GPU,oh please you ride the xbox one secrete sauce for months,and when you found out how crappy it was performing,you started to bring your crappy ass PC to the argument to defend your self..hahahaha

You got OWNED..hahaha But but the 7770 doesn't represent ESRAM,cache,and bus..lol

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Caseytappy

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#250 Caseytappy
Member since 2005 • 2199 Posts

Sony should really thank MS .

Unlike the start of the last generation both consoles are already severely underpowered and close to each other on the shit scale but because MS managed to offer even less power for a whopping $ 100,- more they will get all the flack.

You will still see a lot of dumbed down PC ports struggle on the not so mighty PS4 .