PS3 holding X360 games back?

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6186606.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;3

ok so despite what Sony is saying- the PS3 obviously ISNT easier to develop for than the X360. infact the PS3 is more difficult meaning developers are having to work on the Ps3 first in order to get decent games out on time. GTAIV has already been delayed on both platforms due to this!

so why is the X360 clearly with its superior architecture being held back by the PS3?

why cant MS throw some money around to get X360 games released quicker?

have Sony actually managed to damage the X360 by having a more complicated architecture on the PS3?

it seems to me that if it wasnt for the Playstation brand power the Ps3 would be dead in the water, developers really dont like it but have little choice but to go ahead with it for financial reasons- especially since significant numbers of the PS2 userbase have been switching over to the PS3.

Cows, if you want to take any comfort from this, its the PS2 userbase thats saved the PS3. if the PS3 was made by Microsoft it would already be game over.

This is old news.

I'm always stunned that people are SUPRISED that the company that specializes in software development has superior development tools and the company that specializes in consumer electronic devices has superior hardware reliability.

As far as the one console holding the other back, they hold each other back. The bottom line is that cross platform development means you have to develop for the weakest links in each hardware/software set, and trust me, there are bottlenecks on both sides.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6186606.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;3

ok so despite what Sony is saying- the PS3 obviously ISNT easier to develop for than the X360. infact the PS3 is more difficult meaning developers are having to work on the Ps3 first in order to get decent games out on time. GTAIV has already been delayed on both platforms due to this!

so why is the X360 clearly with its superior architecture being held back by the PS3?

why cant MS throw some money around to get X360 games released quicker?

have Sony actually managed to damage the X360 by having a more complicated architecture on the PS3?

it seems to me that if it wasnt for the Playstation brand power the Ps3 would be dead in the water, developers really dont like it but have little choice but to go ahead with it for financial reasons- especially since significant numbers of the PS2 userbase have been switching over to the PS3.

Cows, if you want to take any comfort from this, its the PS2 userbase thats saved the PS3. if the PS3 was made by Microsoft it would already be game over.

CwlHeddwyn

Erm.... doesn't the article put it mostly down to development starting on the Xbox360 and not starting development on the PS3 til too far into the development of the 360 version to port it without problems?

Great point. Except how friggin lame would it be to have all of the consoles have hardware that is already known? How are advancements ever made with that type of thinking? And I'm not even talking about games. It works that way in any part of life. In order to advance, you need to take on new things. In order to take on new things you must educate yourself. In order to educate yourself, you must take time.

Tell me how if devs just pushed the PS3 to the side and went with only things they knew, tell me how that would benefit gaming. Tell me how the 360 would even get better.

This argument is weak.

I'm always stunned that people are SUPRISED that the company that specializes in software development has superior development tools and the company that specializes in consumer electronic devices has superior hardware reliability.

As far as the one console holding the other back, they hold each other back. The bottom line is that cross platform development means you have to develop for the weakest links in each hardware/software set, and trust me, there are bottlenecks on both sides.

Uberbadassmufuh

And why exactly are you suprised?? seriously bad excuse, Sony is now on their 3rd console and this has been going on for 14 years - Im pretty sure Sony doesnt care and their arrogance can only hurt them.

STOP THE PRESSES! THe PS3 is more difficult to make games for?!?! Do you realize what kind of scoop this is!?

/sarcasm

Great point. Except how friggin lame would it be to have all of the consoles have hardware that is already known? How are advancements ever made with that type of thinking? And I'm not even talking about games. It works that way in any part of life. In order to advance, you need to take on new things. In order to take on new things you must educate yourself. In order to educate yourself, you must take time.

Tell me how if devs just pushed the PS3 to the side and went with only things they knew, tell me how that would benefit gaming. Tell me how the 360 would even get better.

This argument is weak.

The_Crucible

hey Im not suggesting devs drop the PS3- clearly its a money-making product so stick to it. what im saying is the X360 games deserve to be released sooner & not be delayed through no fault of its own.

[QUOTE="The_Crucible"]

Great point. Except how friggin lame would it be to have all of the consoles have hardware that is already known? How are advancements ever made with that type of thinking? And I'm not even talking about games. It works that way in any part of life. In order to advance, you need to take on new things. In order to take on new things you must educate yourself. In order to educate yourself, you must take time.

Tell me how if devs just pushed the PS3 to the side and went with only things they knew, tell me how that would benefit gaming. Tell me how the 360 would even get better.

This argument is weak.

CwlHeddwyn

hey Im not suggesting devs drop the PS3- clearly its a money-making product so stick to it. what im saying is the X360 games deserve to be released sooner & not be delayed through no fault of its own.

It can't be both ways. Either the devs do it first on the PS3 to have the best case scenario for both consoles OR they waste time and money doing the 360 first.

I'm always stunned that people are SUPRISED that the company that specializes in software development has superior development tools and the company that specializes in consumer electronic devices has superior hardware reliability.

As far as the one console holding the other back, they hold each other back. The bottom line is that cross platform development means you have to develop for the weakest links in each hardware/software set, and trust me, there are bottlenecks on both sides.

Uberbadassmufuh

i think thats a fair assessment.

by developing for the PS3 primarily, the devs can ensure that they keep to the ram setup of the PS3. treating the ram as one pool on the PS3 just kills its performance so its just better to stick to 256MB of graphics data and 256MB of other data. making this work on the 360 is not too hard since the ram can be divided whatever way the devs want.

on the flip side, u cant assume a HDD will be there on all machine it will be played on due to the 360 core. so u need to ensure that the game is optimized so that it can be loaded from the disc as fast as possible.

when developing for multiple platforms, u should aim for the lowest common denominator. when designing it.

I'm always stunned that people are SUPRISED that the company that specializes in software development has superior development tools and the company that specializes in consumer electronic devices has superior hardware reliability.

Uberbadassmufuh

When you been in the gaming market for 10 years, and on top of it mind you. You better know what it takes to please developers and not soly rely on your name brand. SONY brand isnt as powerful in electronics as it was 10 years ago, they need to step it up and not look to find excuses or force people to resign...

Not only the PS3 is holding 360 games back, Sony is holding itself back with that ridiculous amount or lack of ram. That's like a great 3 point shooter trying to shoot a basket ball inside a golf hole. Bottle neck indeed. So much potential this PS3 has, but nobody knows how to unlock its potential. Sad.

While it is somewhat true that the PS3 hasn't been exactly the easiest system for devs to work with, there are many devs that are now very comfortable with the PS3's hardware and the games are really starting to show it. Multiplat games like CoD 4, Devil May Cry 4 and Burnout Paradise all showcase what devs can do with the PS3 if they take the time to work with it.

As time goes forward, I think that you will see 3rd party devs like EA, UbiSoft and others evenly divide their teams so that both the 360 and PS3 versions of their respective games fully take advantage of what each console has to offer. The PS3 now has a very viable user base worlwide and I think you will see that reflected in both hardware and software sales.

Does it hold back multiplats? A bit. Though games like AC and Burnout Paradise show that developers can still make amazing games on both systems.

It is all about exclusives. I see the 360 bearly keeping up with the PS3 now. Games like Uncharted are setting the bar for console graphics and so far nothing on the 360 can pass Gears of War until Gears of War 2 is out, and that is just using the same game engine.

The 360 is being surpassed, like we all thought would happen.

The Huge amounts of money they throw at marketing now means that game on both systems will be out at the same time even if one is finished before the other

Does it hold back multiplats? A bit. Though games like AC and Burnout Paradise show that developers can still make amazing games on both systems.

It is all about exclusives. I see the 360 bearly keeping up with the PS3 now. Games like Uncharted are setting the bar for console graphics and so far nothing on the 360 can pass Gears of War until Gears of War 2 is out, and that is just using the same game engine.

The 360 is being surpassed, like we all thought would happen.

Wasdie

but thats opinion only a many people think gears looks just as good as uncharted and the only real reason uncharted looked as good as it did is because they scaled back on literally every thing else including the AI (of which uncharted has some of the dumbest, hiding behind 1 inch pipe railing doesn't protect you from bullets) and since the common thread for cows is that graphics and art direction are 2 different things, nearly all of the leaves in uncharted look plastic with lots of lightbloom/hdr affects added too much.

I have yet to see a fun, gameplay filled graphics monsters come out of the ps3 as of yet, and that includes uncharted.

but thats opinion only a many people think gears looks just as good as uncharted and the only real reason uncharted looked as good as it did is because they scaled back on literally every thing else including the AI (of which uncharted has some of the dumbest, hiding behind 1 inch pipe railing doesn't protect you from bullets) and since the common thread for cows is that graphics and art direction are 2 different things, nearly all of the leaves in uncharted look plastic with lots of lightbloom/hdr affects added too much.

I have yet to see a fun, gameplay filled graphics monsters come out of the ps3 as of yet, and that includes uncharted.

WilliamRLBaker

You understand that AI and graphics have absolutely nothing to do with each other? Its not the gpu which controls the AI. So what did they scale back again? Btw uncharted is way better looking and graphicly intense than geow and thats not an opinion. You also undertand that bloom/hdr are extremely hard on the gpu?

I never knew that the Ps3 was harder to develop for. Why hasn't any devs spoke up before????Chutebox

they have, in large numbers.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]I never knew that the Ps3 was harder to develop for. Why hasn't any devs spoke up before????Always-Honest

they have, in large numbers.

[QUOTE="Uberbadassmufuh"]

I'm always stunned that people are SUPRISED that the company that specializes in software development has superior development tools and the company that specializes in consumer electronic devices has superior hardware reliability.

Deevoshun

When you been in the gaming market for 10 years, and on top of it mind you. You better know what it takes to please developers and not soly rely on your name brand. SONY brand isnt as powerful in electronics as it was 10 years ago, they need to step it up and not look to find excuses or force people to resign...

But they're up against Microsoft. You know, the folks who wrote the book on software development tools. Particularly in gaming most of the development shortcuts (including the .net framework that's freakin' ubiquitous now) came from MS. My point is that I don't know if anyone CAN compete with them in that area because of their size, focus, and experience.

[QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]I never knew that the Ps3 was harder to develop for. Why hasn't any devs spoke up before????Tiefster

they have, in large numbers.

Just to point out the logical and slightly obvious, but the Xbox360 has been out for a while longer than the PS3 so it stands to reason that it would be easier to develop for it simply because dev teams have had more time experience with it but in the beginning they were still unsure of how far they could push the consoles so they stuck with the Xbox360 as the primary development platform. But now, since pushing boundaries gets exponentially harder with time, they have a fairly good idea of what the Xbox 360 is capable of doing, but the PS3 hardware is only just starting to get pushed to limits with games like Drake's Fortune getting released so it would make sense to start development on the PS3 because they can create stuff for it and have a rough idea of how well it will code onto the Xbox 360 whereas if they code it on the Xbox360, they are probably less sure of how well it would work on the PS3 (due to the aformentioned relative lack of experience).

imo

Attention TC,

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I'm pissed off that X360 is holding back games with no harddrive standardRhubarb9

so far only ps3 seems to be needing it.....

[QUOTE="Rhubarb9"]I'm pissed off that X360 is holding back games with no harddrive standardAlways-Honest

so far only ps3 seems to be needing it.....

[QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="Rhubarb9"]I'm pissed off that X360 is holding back games with no harddrive standardAdrian_Cloud

so far only ps3 seems to be needing it.....

harddrive install?... DMC4, Lost Planet ps3, UT3...

[QUOTE="Tiefster"][QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]I never knew that the Ps3 was harder to develop for. Why hasn't any devs spoke up before????Kook18

they have, in large numbers.

no, lots of devs said the PS3 was harder to develop for.. where have you been the last year and a half?... it's a fact.. but some devs take the effort to learn the hardware (with help from sony) and some don't..

[QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"][QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="Rhubarb9"]I'm pissed off that X360 is holding back games with no harddrive standardAlways-Honest

so far only ps3 seems to be needing it.....

harddrive install?... DMC4, Lost Planet ps3, UT3...

[QUOTE="Tiefster"][QUOTE="Always-Honest"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]I never knew that the Ps3 was harder to develop for. Why hasn't any devs spoke up before????Kook18

they have, in large numbers.

no, lots of devs said the PS3 was harder to develop for.. where have you been the last year and a half?... it's a fact.. but some devs take the effort to learn the hardware (with help from sony) and some don't..

Ermm you do know that Capcom is being very lazy with those right?.

I wouldn't call the 360's architecture *superior*, but definately more easy to program for..