PS Now about to end Game Pass/Xcloud's whole career?

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michaelmikado

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#51 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 403 Posts

@sealionact said:

@michaelmikado: That's the problem. Psnow really isn't a gamepass competitor. Gamepass appeals to Xbox and pc gamers alike...there's been very little reason for PS4 owners to subscribe to psnow, which shows in the subscription rate. By cutting the price, offering downloads and limited amounts of older 1st party games, Sony are attempting to improve that attachment rate in line with gamepass numbers.

Ms don't release figures about gamepass, but we know that more than 3 million players played gears 5 on its first weekend, and that physical sales were poor...so it's safe to say it's doing much better than psnow.

The problem for Sony is that they already had a streaming service, but failed to capitalise on the head start. Playing games at 720p just doesn't cut it, and even a price cut and a resolution bump won't help the service unless they start including 1st party games on day 1...which they won't do.

Xcloud will launch with 4k gaming, as will stadia. It'll have 1st party games day 1, as will stadia....and it's easy enough for ms to match psnow's price, or make a package including gamepass, Xcloud and live.

The ball was in Sony's court, but they've been down to Matchpoint since psnow's inception.

As someone who has subscribed to PSnow for years now even at its previous price point I can tell you it is untrue that it has no value for PS4 owners. In fact the bulk of the subscribers are PS4 users.

The reason it hold value is simple. If you have kids, they have almost every Lego game and Disney game from the PS3 and current generation. Kids which these games appeal to are far less sensitive to latency and visual quality than even the average gamer. At $100 a year I never had to buy a single game for the kids while also being able to play a couple games for myself. It's a MASSIVE bargain for a family. GamePass as far as the number of subscribers go is a whole different animal. Its is heavily subsidized by Microsoft solely for the purpose of offering value and being a loss leader. PSNow hasn't been a loss leader because it hasn't needed to. It stabilized its business model and worked to reduce costs to offer better pricing in the future to meet competition.

I think you aren't understanding PSnow or the business model or the back end of the streaming business at all.

PSNow was built to stream PS3 games which max out at 720p. It never made sense to go above that. Further the PS4 and PC app both use hardware acceleration to upscale a 720P stream if/when possible. As far as the PS4 game Sony took the logical step of allowing it to be downloaded. With streaming games, the higher resolution and assets, the more you costs per hour of use. By keeping the resolution low it keeps their costs and thus their pricing low. Further allowing downloads reduces their costs even more. This also gives them a marketing opportunity. If you want the best experience you need to buy a PS4 console which is their bread and butter. You can play without it but you will not get the best experience. It essentially acts as an advertising tool.

This has been the problem with all these services.... finding a business model which actually is profitable and PSNow is the only one actively working and in business because they found a model. Keep streaming costs down by offering a download alternative at max performance.

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michaelmikado

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#52 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 403 Posts
@sealionact said:

@BenjaminBanklin: Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't even perform at PS4 levels. Max resolution is 720p. Unless you download, which you can't on pc.

See above.

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pmanden

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#53 pmanden
Member since 2016 • 783 Posts

@Archangel3371: I agree 100% . Real gamers don't need that streaming s☆☆☆

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BenjaminBanklin

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#54 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5092 Posts

@sealionact said:

@BenjaminBanklin: Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't even perform at PS4 levels. Max resolution is 720p. Unless you download, which you can't on pc.

Nope. Sony still wants you to buy their hardware for now if you still want full native performance. But, if you don't care about that, there's still the option to play GoW if you don't own the box. Sony seems to still be committed to their hardware for the time being. But if Jim Ryan is serious about not being complacent, and not all mouth, there could be improvements to the service like higher resolutions down the line.

It's looking like Sony will be more dedicated to PS Now instead of having it be an also-ran. But make no mistake, they'll still be making their hardware a priority until manufacturing consoles dries up for them.

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sealionact

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#55 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 4229 Posts

@michaelmikado: I understand the reasoning behind the resolution limitation, but it still doesn't alter the fact that it's lagging behind competitors, with no plans to improve. Kids will be happy enough, but gamers - the target audience - have moved on from 720p two generations ago and the fact remains that subscription numbers are poor. I guarantee you that if PSnow followed the Gamepass model, numbers would explode. Which PS4 owner wouldn't want to download last of us 2 etc for that price?

Right now, Sony would never do that because their 1st party games sell so well...but if competitors are offering AAA games it may well influence next gen choices, which is why I said Sony have some choices to make.

My whole argument is not that psnow sucks. 700,000 people subscribe and enjoy it. My argument is that the way we consume digital media is changing, and Sony have to improve that end to continue to compete. Like it or not, physical discs will die out, as will game stores....its just way cheaper to release them digitally - or offer streaming.

MS has the knowhow, finances and server capacity to create a big player in the streaming industry and Sony can't compete on those terms, which is why they have made a deal with MS to use Azure.

To be fair, both consoles have lost the battle already, because most people game on mobiles...which are now starting their own subscription services.

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gago-gago

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#56 gago-gago
Member since 2009 • 12124 Posts

With tariffs war going on here and there, it’ll probably get tougher to make profit just from hardware alone. I always knew PS4 games were going to be on PSNow when they first started. And with Sonys history I think they’ll just continue with PSNow instead of having backward compatibility on the PS5 when it’s capable. Anyway now you can play more PlayStation best exclusives without a PlayStation is neato.

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hrt_rulz01

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#57  Edited By hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 19357 Posts

@Coolyfett said:
@hrt_rulz01 said:

It's funny how cows aren't harping on about how PS4 is losing exclusives to PC now, but when Xbox does it, it's "lolololol Xbox has no exclusives - what's the point of having an Xbox".

Lol, the hypocrisy is amazing.

Anyway, good for those that want it I guess. But PS Now is still sh*t compared to Game Pass.

Why would they "harp" on it? PC users still have to pay the subscription and play in the PSN echo system. It just brings more players in. Good for PlayStation if the PlayStation Now takes off on PC.

Yes, absolutely. Just like with Xbox on PC.

But most cows don't see it that way (at least they didn't for Xbox - but now that PS is doing it, it probably makes all the sense in the world).

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xantufrog

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#58  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11746 Posts

@michaelmikado: no offense, but I (as a Cow, Sheep, and PC gamer, not a Lem mind you) find that argument thin as ice. I simply don't care if it was "developed for PS" or "needs the PS ecosystem" or whatever. If I can play it on PC, then that's my end goal. The fact that PS3 games are streamed from server racks with Cells on them doesn't matter to me at all, and I'd further speculate that the PS4 games are probably not even streamed from specialized hardware since there's nothing forcing Sony to do so.

The more people who can play PS games the better, IMO, and same goes for Xbox games. I'm not interested in debating what "counts" as making a game available on PC. If I can play it with their blessing (not some pirate+emulate scheme), they made it available on PC. That's my definition.

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R-Gamer

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#59 R-Gamer  Online
Member since 2019 • 795 Posts

@navyguy21: I don't think it really wants to be gamepass as it would destroy their overall revenue.

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Pedro

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#60 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 35687 Posts

Look at some of those Sony fannies backpedal. LMAO

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michaelmikado

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#61 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 403 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@michaelmikado: no offense, but I (as a Cow, Sheep, and PC gamer, not a Lem mind you) find that argument thin as ice. I simply don't care if it was "developed for PS" or "needs the PS ecosystem" or whatever. If I can play it on PC, then that's my end goal. The fact that PS3 games are streamed from server racks with Cells on them doesn't matter to me at all, and I'd further speculate that the PS4 games are probably not even streamed from specialized hardware since there's nothing forcing Sony to do so.

The more people who can play PS games the better, IMO, and same goes for Xbox games. I'm not interested in debating what "counts" as making a game available on PC. If I can play it with their blessing (not some pirate+emulate scheme), they made it available on PC. That's my definition.

The idea that playing a game that requires you to pay Sony on anything but specifically a PlayStation console is absurd and only works in fanboy system warz forum. In the real, sane world investors see this as income. Gamers see it as an opportunity to play different games.

The only reason a game being on both PC and Xbox matters is because as an investor in MS it means the game can be played without Microsoft seeing a penny of the revenue in royalties. More options to access an IP means less potential revenue to an investor and less reason for a gamer to give money to Microsoft and their ecosystem. I'm not an investor so it doesn't matter to me, but literally everywhere but this nonsensical world of system warz does basic common sense and sound business sense and financial reasoning prevail.

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michaelmikado

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#62 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 403 Posts
@sealionact said:

@michaelmikado: I understand the reasoning behind the resolution limitation, but it still doesn't alter the fact that it's lagging behind competitors, with no plans to improve. Kids will be happy enough, but gamers - the target audience - have moved on from 720p two generations ago and the fact remains that subscription numbers are poor. I guarantee you that if PSnow followed the Gamepass model, numbers would explode. Which PS4 owner wouldn't want to download last of us 2 etc for that price?

Right now, Sony would never do that because their 1st party games sell so well...but if competitors are offering AAA games it may well influence next gen choices, which is why I said Sony have some choices to make.

My whole argument is not that psnow sucks. 700,000 people subscribe and enjoy it. My argument is that the way we consume digital media is changing, and Sony have to improve that end to continue to compete. Like it or not, physical discs will die out, as will game stores....its just way cheaper to release them digitally - or offer streaming.

MS has the knowhow, finances and server capacity to create a big player in the streaming industry and Sony can't compete on those terms, which is why they have made a deal with MS to use Azure.

To be fair, both consoles have lost the battle already, because most people game on mobiles...which are now starting their own subscription services.

The 720p stream can use hardware acceleration to upscale on the client. Many people have reported very good results streaming to 4K displays because of this. Sony has done this for 5 years and understands the costs of rendering at higher resolutions, what it does to data caps and bandwidth etc. more than anyone else on a game streaming service. The absorbed the biggest game streaming services to previously exist.

If I had to guess Sony's plan is simple:

The bulk of their game library are 720p and under.

Its cheap to stream at 720p with bandwidth and data caps.

Mobile is fine with 720p.

They use hardware upscaling on the clients for the 720p streams.

For the best experience buy a PlayStation console and download the game which saves them tremendous money compared to competitors.

No one else has the game library and streaming available for this price. Netflix had terrible streaming quality compared to Amazon when released. But Netflix was cheaper and offered more volume of older content and library. PSNow is literally replicating that exact same model but in videogames while xCloud and Stadia are replicating more of the Amazon Prime model.

Low tech streaming, huge older library , cheap price = Netflix/PSNow

High tech Streaming, Newer smaller library, premium price for content = Amazon Prime/ Stadia/xCloud

Its a different approach and both have their places but one method seems to clearly reach critical mass faster. Its like comparing Walmart and Target.

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robert_sparkes

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#63 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 3407 Posts

Ps now just auto downloaded on my PS4. Looks appealing at the price.

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xantufrog

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#64 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11746 Posts

@michaelmikado: agreed

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cainetao11

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#65 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 36889 Posts

And Sony has opened cross play up for any title now as well? Hhmm guess all those wannabe CEOs in SW really don't know shit. And you know who you are folks.

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michaelmikado

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#66 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 403 Posts

@robert_sparkes:

I was always preinstalled. I recommend the trial before buying

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Vaidream45

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#67 Vaidream45
Member since 2016 • 2048 Posts

Not interested in any of these services but if I was it would be game pass because you actually install the games on your console and play them natively instead of this streaming crap.

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Sancho_Panzer

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#68  Edited By Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 884 Posts

That's all well and good but you can't call it a flagship service without those day-one first party games.

It's definitely good news for existing PS4 owners without much cash, no doubt about that, but if all the brand new exclusives they'll be marketing hard are precisely the games you won't be getting on PS Now anytime soon, it makes the whole service feel very B-tier.

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michaelmikado

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#69 michaelmikado
Member since 2019 • 403 Posts

@sancho_panzer:

No one even called it a flagship. Sony is very clear that the best way to experience their products is having a console and downloading the games and they very clearly labeling their better offerings on the service as “marquee”.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#70 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5092 Posts

@cainetao11 said:

And Sony has opened cross play up for any title now as well? Hhmm guess all those wannabe CEOs in SW really don't know shit. And you know who you are folks.

And if Microsoft starts backpedaling on that after all that begging and whining for crossplay I'm gonna laugh.

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Sancho_Panzer

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#71 Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 884 Posts

@michaelmikado: Yeah, but you could tell someone was about to, at some point in the proceedings.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#72 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 25569 Posts
@saltslasher said:

I'm glad all my complaining for last 3 years is paying off.

My biggest complaints, literally 2 I said most:

1-They don't put their own first party games on there, they still have PS3 versions of Uncharted.

2-Price.

Now they just got to fix:

1-Resolution and quality

2-Interface

3-Downloading on PC

4-Build a new handheld

Would be nice actually if they released some sort of emulator inside PSNow and allowed you to use the processing power of your computer to run the emulation versus a server system streaming over the web. Or, better yet, created a sort of PS4 virtual machine that could power the game and achieve decent framerate/res rather than having to deal with the online latency of Sony's garbage online service.

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Sancho_Panzer

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#73 Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 884 Posts

@DragonfireXZ95 said:
@saltslasher said:

I'm glad all my complaining for last 3 years is paying off.

My biggest complaints, literally 2 I said most:

1-They don't put their own first party games on there, they still have PS3 versions of Uncharted.

2-Price.

Now they just got to fix:

1-Resolution and quality

2-Interface

3-Downloading on PC

4-Build a new handheld

Would be nice actually if they released some sort of emulator inside PSNow and allowed you to use the processing power of your computer to run the emulation versus a server system streaming over the web. Or, better yet, created a sort of PS4 virtual machine that could power the game and achieve decent framerate/res rather than having to deal with the online latency of Sony's garbage online service.

I nominate this for best idea of the day. Someone really ought to take it up with those boffins over at Sony HQ.

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dino7c

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#74 dino7c
Member since 2005 • 533 Posts
@vaidream45 said:

Not interested in any of these services but if I was it would be game pass because you actually install the games on your console and play them natively instead of this streaming crap.

Try to follow along...you can install ps4 games

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BigBadBully

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#75 BigBadBully
Member since 2006 • 2170 Posts

No one expects the bombshell drop at E3, Sony 1st party drop day/date of release on PSNow, along with them acquiring some studios (from software, platinum...).?

It's not going to be a huge loss and people can still fight over service wars...

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cainetao11

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#76  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 36889 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin said:
@cainetao11 said:

And Sony has opened cross play up for any title now as well? Hhmm guess all those wannabe CEOs in SW really don't know shit. And you know who you are folks.

And if Microsoft starts backpedaling on that after all that begging and whining for crossplay I'm gonna laugh.

I had edited before a notification told me you responded. Read below.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#77  Edited By BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5092 Posts

@cainetao11 said:
@BenjaminBanklin said:

And if Microsoft starts backpedaling on that after all that begging and whining for crossplay I'm gonna laugh.

LOL all you have at this point is an "IF". Sony shit in your hand, dude. All that shit talking you guys did on here blew up like a fart in your face LOL

Became a part of the Azure cloud server network and doing cross play HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I don't know why you chose to be so glib about it. Playstation had to save YOUR shit, not the other way around. MS did all that mewling in the first place because their numbers were in the trash. Imagine being a grown ass man making seven figures crying on Twitter about Sony not wanting to link up their business with yours.

Sony gamers didn't even need you bums. But, I guess they get the chance to show you up online since half you goons never play video games and choose to spend most of your time smack-talking on the internet anyway. That is... if MS isn't all mouth.

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cainetao11

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#78  Edited By cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 36889 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin said:
@cainetao11 said:
@BenjaminBanklin said:

And if Microsoft starts backpedaling on that after all that begging and whining for crossplay I'm gonna laugh.

LOL all you have at this point is an "IF". Sony shit in your hand, dude. All that shit talking you guys did on here blew up like a fart in your face LOL

Became a part of the Azure cloud server network and doing cross play HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I don't know why you chose to be so glib about it. Playstation had to save YOUR shit, not the other way around. MS did all that mewling in the first place because their numbers were in the trash. Imagine being a grown ass man making seven figures crying on Twitter about Sony not wanting to link up their business with yours.

Sony gamers didn't even need you bums. But, I guess they get the chance to show you up online since half you goons never play video games and choose to spend most of your time smack-talking on the internet anyway. That is... if MS isn't all mouth.

I actually edited my comment from that. I realized I was just being a dick to you. Apologies.

But I will respond. PS didn't have to save anything or link up with anything of mine. Im not employed by MS, Sony, Nintendo, Valve etc. Damn you take this SW stuff to bed, don't you?

LMAO imagine seeing massive near trillion $ corporations like Google and Amazon coming into the gaming industry and being Sony and having to join up with MSFT's Azure network because that Gaikai shit aint gonna measure up. LMAO

This change thing is spreading LOL

See this can be done all over the place Benji. MS wasn't folding up shop no matter how there numbers are. Just the facts dude, so PS didn't save anything.

Bottom line is: you and your anti crossplay cohorts were wrong. Sony aint making much that justifies paying for MP so they may as well join in and play with others in MP.

Best part of this is I never mentioned you by name when I threw shade. But you knew you were one of the wannabe CEOs that turned out to be wrong about crossplay.