Poll: Dualshock, the first "modern" controller?

Can't edit: This is the actual controller :(

N64. It is the controller design that brought about the most fundamental changes from 2d to 3d.

LOL. If it weren't for the N64, your first picture is what Sony's controller would have looked like that entire generation. Nintendo has been a step ahead of Sony with controllers as far back as video games have existed. Analog sticks, rumble, wireless, motion controls, shoulder buttons. Come on now.

Nah it would likely be the N64 controller.

In truth Most Nintendo Controllers set the standard: NES, SNES, N64, Wii all brought something fairly important to console gaming (ok we can argue about the SNES one, but still).

Not to say the Dualshock controller did not have an impact, it did. But to me it seems like it was built on the fundation that was the n64. A refined version of what Nintendo thought up, done better. (yes I liked the dualshock more then the n64 controller, that thing could serisously strain my wrists.

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

Interesting. Thanks folks.

IDK how to say it but it seems to me that even the Nintendo Wii Pro Classic and the PRO Wii U controller are much closer to the DShock Sony design than to the N64. Seem to be the same case with the 360 controller relative to the original Xbox Controller.

Does the OG XBOX Controller have 2 sets of shoulder buttons? Not a rhetorical question btw.

Every modern controller is essentially an evolution of the original NES controller. So, no not the dual shock and its horrid successors.

Personally, I think the evolution from the dreamcast to the x1 controller is the best overall, but they all lend themselves to the original NES pad.

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

First time seeing that. Thanks for sharing. So was that the 1st that had 4 shoulder buttons? The right stick looks funky.

I see. May still not negate the DS as generally the modern blueprint and at the same time owing to the previous Nintendo controllers.

Seems Valve wanted the next evolution but so far it's just the DS4 with gyro, light and touchpad. X1's rumbling trigger seem interesting tho.

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

First time seeing that. Thanks for sharing. So was that the 1st that had 4 shoulder buttons? The right stick looks funky.

Yes, it was the first with 4 shoulder buttons. In fact, it was the first controller to have shoulder buttons of any kind, even before the SNES.

The right stick looks funky because it's not an actual analog stick, but an analog slider, which uses a single analog axis rather than the dual-axis of an analog stick. Still, it's a precursor to the DualShock's second analog stick.

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

First time seeing that. Thanks for sharing. So was that the 1st that had 4 shoulder buttons? The right stick looks funky.

Yes, it was the first with 4 shoulder buttons. In fact, it was the first controller to have shoulder buttons of any kind, even before the SNES.

The right stick looks funky because it's not an actual analog stick, but an analog slider, which uses a single analog axis rather than the dual-axis of an analog stick. Still, it's a precursor to the DualShock's second analog stick.

Thanks again. It looks so funky, ugly and cool at the same time xD Any games for it that uses the ancient 2nd stick? I wanna see the game in action! :D

The only thing the OG dual shock did right first was the grips. But even those have been outdone by the dreamcast and xbox successors.

This was:

Nope. The N64 controller. Without the N64 controller, there was no DualShock- the original PlayStation pad was just a gliorified SNES pad, as pictured in your OP.

Wasn't fond of the Dcast controller's grips but the 360's felt great.

@mr_huggles_dog said:

This was:

Helped contribute as mentioned but seems even the Wii Pro Classic and Wii U Pro are much closer to the Dualshock design than the N64 controller; grip shifting for mid analog, has 6 face buttons and only a set of shoulder buttons.

N64 seems to have been followed closer by the OG Xbox than the DShock (6 face buttons, a set of shoulder buttons) but at the end of the day, the 360 and X1's controllers are closer to the DualShock (4 shoulder inputs, 4 face buttons, right stick diagonally inwards from face buttons but at the right side than mid of the N64).. than N64.

Man, I remember the day I got the original PlayStation 1 (non analog) for Christmas as a kid. I was happy as **** playing the hell out of Battle Arena Toshinden all day.

Didn't like the sticks at first because it felt and looked weird but all I was really playing were Megaman 8 and X4. Was also happy as heck when my aunt bought it for me as a present (had a Dualshock and not the 1st version where it only had the non analog).

@j2zon2591: Your argument is predicated on ergonomics, but if you want to argue those, the DualShock would lose that debate to the SNES pad. 'Modern controller' inherently implies a controller featuring ideas and functions expected from modern controllers- the N64 controller, being the first controller to feature an analog stick, and vibration, would therefore be the first controller to qualify as a modern controller.

The first controller to qualify for the modern ergonomical layout would be the SNES (or indeed, even the NES). Everything from then on has just been a refinement.

Sony just copied Nintendo on all levels.

I guess it can be subjective. The way I'm seeing it is the N64 and SNES are lacking compared to the modern DS design where I consider, most since then, are where the fine tuning started; 360's reverse left side, 360's triggers, Wii U's reverse right side.

N64 has less practical middle setup not found on modern controllers and a different enough face button layout and lacking two shoulder buttons w/c are quite the modern signature.

Thanks for sharing the knowledge to me about the vibration of the N64 controller. I did not know about that. Does the N64 also have a clicking analog like the original DS design (again not rhetorical, I hope I don't sound rude)? Seems L3 and R3 are also modern features.

@j2zon2591: You're not rude at all, don't worry :)

No, DualShock was the first controller to have depressable analog sticks. The first Nintendo controllers to allow that were the Wii U Pro and the Wii U Gamepad. So that, along with the general dual analog layout, is definitely something DualShock brought to the table. But yes, the actual analog stick and vibration functions were N64 contributions, not DualShock.

Thank you very much! I actually only realized now that the DS was more than I thought it had been. I thought L3 and R3 were from PS2. I was not also thinking about the vibration earlier w/c seem pretty nutty since it already has the word "Shock" in it. I guess these really stamp it for me.

1997 DualShock:

-Dpad

-4 Face Buttons

-Dual Stick

-4 Shoulder Buttons

-L3 and R3

-Vibration

Thanks again for sharing, charizard1605!

No. To this day, I still consider the Dualshock controllers to be an archiac design since they have the d-pad (the primary control method for retro gaming) in the natural resting position of the thumb instead of the left analog stick (the primary control method for modern gaming).

Seems like a impartial source. :P No.

The OG DS with the analogs is only modern because Sony didn't bother with different designs until the PS4 :P

It's hard to say. It definitely set the standard for the general lay out.

However, A lot of the mainstay functionality seemed to be popularized by nintendo

-4 face buttons

-shoulder buttons

-analogue stick

-pressure sensitive triggers

-Wireless

-Rumble

It certainly is in my mind but it depends on how you view the N64 controller (which felt incredibly clunky to me).

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

First time seeing that. Thanks for sharing. So was that the 1st that had 4 shoulder buttons? The right stick looks funky.

Yes, it was the first with 4 shoulder buttons. In fact, it was the first controller to have shoulder buttons of any kind, even before the SNES.

The right stick looks funky because it's not an actual analog stick, but an analog slider, which uses a single analog axis rather than the dual-axis of an analog stick. Still, it's a precursor to the DualShock's second analog stick.

Thanks again. It looks so funky, ugly and cool at the same time xD Any games for it that uses the ancient 2nd stick? I wanna see the game in action! :D

The following Sega Mega Drive/Genesis games supported the XE-1AP controller:

• After Burner II
• Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II
• Fastest 1
• Galaxy Force II
• Musha Aleste
• After Burner III (CD)
• Night Striker (CD)
• Starblade (CD)
• After Burner Complete (32X)
• Space Harrier (32X)

The XE-1AP controller was originally designed by Dempa Micomsoft in 1989 for Sega's flight combat simulator After Burner II. With the original 1987 arcade version of After Burner II, its cockpit arcade cabinet featured an analog flight-stick to control the plane's analog movement, while an analog throttle controlled the plane's forward movement. For the home port of After Burner II, in order to replicate the arcade cabinet's controls for a portable controller, Dempa Micomsoft introduced the concept of an analog thumb-stick, to replicate the arcade machine's analog flight-stick, and also introduced an analog slider to replicate the analog throttle. It was basically the first dual-analog controller, but the analog slider on the right was only single-axis analog (rotatable to either X or Y axis), rather than a full second analog stick (which moves along both X and Y axis).

Here's a video of After Burner Complete (for the Sega 32X) in action while being controlled with the XE-1AP controller:

The first console controller that I ever comfortably used was on the SNES. I think the N64 controller is one of the worst of all time, truthfully. It was never comfortable in the hand and the input placement was goofy.

http://www.vecchicomputer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/vectrex-controller.jpg

Four buttons, One analog stick. Made for hands to grip around. Early 80's.

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

Looks nothing like a modern controller though. Looks like a failed experiment and they had no idea what to do with it.

Was a nintendo kid all my life, but I recently got a ps1 six months ago and it feels so cheap it could break at any moment.

"Four buttons, One analog stick. Made for hands to grip around. Early 80's."

The Vectrex controller is not made for your hands to grip around. It's made for you to place on the table, using the left hand to grip the joystick with both your thumb and finger, and using the right hand's fingers to press the buttons, like in this ad. In other words, it's controlled in a similar manner to an arcade stick. Even the NES pad is more of a "modern" controller than the Vectrex controller.

"Looks nothing like a modern controller though. Looks like a failed experiment and they had no idea what to do with it."

And yet you think the Vectrex controller is more of a "modern" controller? Either way, Sega and Dempa Micomsoft did know what they were doing with the XE-1AP. Like I said in my last post, it was designed for pseudo-3D arcade games like After Burner II. At the time, it was the closest you could get to replicating the analog controls of the After Burner II arcade cabinet on a home system with a portable controller you grip your hands around. But it was only available in Japan.

Ditto for the N64 controller. Although it felt weird the first time I used it, the question is which was the first modern controller. N64 controller it is.

N64

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

First time seeing that. Thanks for sharing. So was that the 1st that had 4 shoulder buttons? The right stick looks funky.

Yes, it was the first with 4 shoulder buttons. In fact, it was the first controller to have shoulder buttons of any kind, even before the SNES.

The right stick looks funky because it's not an actual analog stick, but an analog slider, which uses a single analog axis rather than the dual-axis of an analog stick. Still, it's a precursor to the DualShock's second analog stick.

Thanks again. It looks so funky, ugly and cool at the same time xD Any games for it that uses the ancient 2nd stick? I wanna see the game in action! :D

The following Sega Mega Drive/Genesis games supported the XE-1AP controller:

• After Burner II
• Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II
• Fastest 1
• Galaxy Force II
• Musha Aleste
• After Burner III (CD)
• Night Striker (CD)
• Starblade (CD)
• After Burner Complete (32X)
• Space Harrier (32X)

The XE-1AP controller was originally designed by Dempa Micomsoft in 1989 for Sega's flight combat simulator After Burner II. With the original 1987 arcade version of After Burner II, its cockpit arcade cabinet featured an analog flight-stick to control the plane's analog movement, while an analog throttle controlled the plane's forward movement. For the home port of After Burner II, in order to replicate the arcade cabinet's controls for a portable controller, Dempa Micomsoft introduced the concept of an analog thumb-stick, to replicate the arcade machine's analog flight-stick, and also introduced an analog slider to replicate the analog throttle. It was basically the first dual-analog controller, but the analog slider on the right was only single-axis analog (rotatable to either X or Y axis), rather than a full second analog stick (which moves along both X and Y axis).

Here's a video of After Burner Complete (for the Sega 32X) in action while being controlled with the XE-1AP controller:

Loading Video...

Again, very interesting. Thanks for sharing the vid. The game looks so fast! xD

I see. Maybe.. but the market seem to have decided the DS general design is currently acceptable as a modern design but could be incidental since I think a 360 style PS controller could've still netted Sony similar install base through their games.

I've never held one but it does look weird and it didn't seem to be adopted (mid chin, single stick -need a grip shift) post DS design, same with 6 face buttons and its arrangement.

I

@Captainqwark10 said:

http://www.vecchicomputer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/vectrex-controller.jpg

Four buttons, One analog stick. Made for hands to grip around. Early 80's.

@Jag85 said:

XE-1AP (1989, Sega Mega Drive)

• Ten face buttons
• Four shoulder buttons (before PS1 controller)
• Analogue thumbstick (before N64 controller)
• Analogue slider (like second analog stick, but with single axis)
• Two grip handles (before PS1 controller)

Also, it's a distant ancestor of the Xbox One controller:

XE-1AP > Saturn 3D Control Pad > Dreamcast controller > Xbox controller > 360 controller > X1 controller

Looks nothing like a modern controller though. Looks like a failed experiment and they had no idea what to do with it.

It's essentially a HOTAS.

I guess that's a simpler way to put it. The Sega arcade cockpit cabinets for pseudo-3D combat flight sims like After Burner II and Galaxy Force essentially used HOTAS controls. The XE-1 AP was like HOTAS controls adapted for a standard handheld game controller.

The N64 controller might have been "innovative", but it was the most ridiculous, ill-conceived fucking design this side of the Jaguar controller.

i wouldn't say so. DS1, DS2, DS3 were all garbage. The S controller for the original Xbox was the first controller that felt right for me. DS4 is currently the best controller ever released, especially if you install Xbone analog sticks like i did.

Didn't the N64 have the first analog? To me that was the first modern controller

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

This reminds me of one of those really dumb SolidGame_basic threads.

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

Pretty cool... time for me to youtube what Mega Drive actually is xD

@thread:

Did the original Xbox controller have "L3/R3"?

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

Pretty cool... time for me to youtube what Mega Drive actually is xD

@thread:

Did the original Xbox controller have "L3/R3"?

Sega Mega Drive = Sega Genesis

Mega Drive is what the Genesis is called in Asia and Europe. Since I'm from Europe, I'm used to calling it the Mega Drive.

By the way, I don't remember the original Xbox controller having pressable analog sticks.

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

Pretty cool... time for me to youtube what Mega Drive actually is xD

@thread:

Did the original Xbox controller have "L3/R3"?

Sega Mega Drive = Sega Genesis

Mega Drive is what the Genesis is called in Asia and Europe. Since I'm from Europe, I'm used to calling it the Mega Drive.

By the way, I don't remember the original Xbox controller having pressable analog sticks.

I YT'd it a few mins ago but thanks! I remember playing a 2 player Power Range game on it but I didn't know it was called a GENESIS or a Mega Drive at all xD. Thanks again!

I see. I'm trying to Google around and can't find any info so far for L3/R3 on the original xbox sticks. Another testament to the 1st DS design I guess (at least for me) if it didn't had them. Wonder if the later improved xbox controller had them.. the one that looked smaller and more closer to the 1st 360 controller.

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

Pretty cool... time for me to youtube what Mega Drive actually is xD

@thread:

Did the original Xbox controller have "L3/R3"?

Sega Mega Drive = Sega Genesis

Mega Drive is what the Genesis is called in Asia and Europe. Since I'm from Europe, I'm used to calling it the Mega Drive.

By the way, I don't remember the original Xbox controller having pressable analog sticks.

I YT'd it a few mins ago but thanks! I remember playing a 2 player Power Range game on it but I didn't know it was called a GENESIS or a Mega Drive at all xD. Thanks again!

I see. I'm trying to Google around and can't find any info so far for L3/R3 on the original xbox sticks. Another testament to the 1st DS design I guess (at least for me) if it didn't had them. Wonder if the later improved xbox controller had them.. the one that looked smaller and more closer to the 1st 360 controller.

You should definitely try out the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis. It has a large library of great games, and is one of the best game consoles ever created, right up there with the SNES, PS1 and PS2.

The smaller Xbox Controller S is almost identical to the original Xbox controller, except it's smaller and has an improved layout. The buttons and analog sticks on it are the same. The Controller S was originally created just for the Japanese market, but after negative reactions to the original Xbox controller, the Controller S was released worldwide.

One thing the Xbox controller had that the DualShock didn't is pressure-sensitive analog triggers for the shoulder buttons. But this was first introduced by the Sega Dreamcast, and then adopted by the GameCube and Xbox controllers.

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

Pretty cool... time for me to youtube what Mega Drive actually is xD

@thread:

Did the original Xbox controller have "L3/R3"?

Sega Mega Drive = Sega Genesis

Mega Drive is what the Genesis is called in Asia and Europe. Since I'm from Europe, I'm used to calling it the Mega Drive.

By the way, I don't remember the original Xbox controller having pressable analog sticks.

I YT'd it a few mins ago but thanks! I remember playing a 2 player Power Range game on it but I didn't know it was called a GENESIS or a Mega Drive at all xD. Thanks again!

I see. I'm trying to Google around and can't find any info so far for L3/R3 on the original xbox sticks. Another testament to the 1st DS design I guess (at least for me) if it didn't had them. Wonder if the later improved xbox controller had them.. the one that looked smaller and more closer to the 1st 360 controller.

You should definitely try out the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis. It has a large library of great games, and is one of the best game consoles ever created, right up there with the SNES, PS1 and PS2.

The smaller Xbox Controller S is almost identical to the original Xbox controller, except it's smaller and has an improved layout. The buttons and analog sticks on it are the same. The Controller S was originally created just for the Japanese market, but after negative reactions to the original Xbox controller, the Controller S was released worldwide.

One thing the Xbox controller had that the DualShock didn't is pressure-sensitive analog triggers for the shoulder buttons. But this was first introduced by the Sega Dreamcast, and then adopted by the GameCube and Xbox controllers.

Thanks for the lesson. So the Xbox S may not have the L3/R3 huh. So the analog triggers was started by the DC.

Sadly, I don't really have the money to get a genesis and I don't think i'd enjoy it much since I'm more of a casual, modern, impulsive gamer :( Thanks for recommending tho.

Oh! Did the DS3 only have digital L2/R2 ("triggers")?

Depends where you put "modern"

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

If we look at the development of modern controllers as we know them today, this is what they would look like as an aborted fetus.

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

@j2zon2591 said:

@Jag85 said:

Here's a better screenshot of the Sega Mega Drive's XE-1 AP controller from 1989:

Pretty cool... time for me to youtube what Mega Drive actually is xD

@thread:

Did the original Xbox controller have "L3/R3"?

Sega Mega Drive = Sega Genesis

Mega Drive is what the Genesis is called in Asia and Europe. Since I'm from Europe, I'm used to calling it the Mega Drive.

By the way, I don't remember the original Xbox controller having pressable analog sticks.

I YT'd it a few mins ago but thanks! I remember playing a 2 player Power Range game on it but I didn't know it was called a GENESIS or a Mega Drive at all xD. Thanks again!

I see. I'm trying to Google around and can't find any info so far for L3/R3 on the original xbox sticks. Another testament to the 1st DS design I guess (at least for me) if it didn't had them. Wonder if the later improved xbox controller had them.. the one that looked smaller and more closer to the 1st 360 controller.

You should definitely try out the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis. It has a large library of great games, and is one of the best game consoles ever created, right up there with the SNES, PS1 and PS2.

The smaller Xbox Controller S is almost identical to the original Xbox controller, except it's smaller and has an improved layout. The buttons and analog sticks on it are the same. The Controller S was originally created just for the Japanese market, but after negative reactions to the original Xbox controller, the Controller S was released worldwide.

One thing the Xbox controller had that the DualShock didn't is pressure-sensitive analog triggers for the shoulder buttons. But this was first introduced by the Sega Dreamcast, and then adopted by the GameCube and Xbox controllers.

Thanks for the lesson. So the Xbox S may not have the L3/R3 huh. So the analog triggers was started by the DC.

Sadly, I don't really have the money to get a genesis and I don't think i'd enjoy it much since I'm more of a casual, modern, impulsive gamer :( Thanks for recommending tho.

Oh! Did the DS3 only have digital L2/R2 ("triggers")?

The DualShock 3 has analog triggers as well, just like the earlier Dreamcast, GameCube and Xbox controllers.