Pokemon and Portal argument with my friend...

So regarding Pokken Tournament I made a point the only other time Pokemon has ever delved into the fighting genre has been in Smash Bros., and my friend claims "Pokemon has always been fighting," and that's where I drew the line and said, no, it's always been Turn-based strategy and RPG. Just because the universe itself delves into the concept of Pokemon fighting, the RPG's never extended into fighting as a mechanic, but he begs to differ.

Then I said that's like saying "Portal is a FPS, when it's really a first-person puzzle game." And he once again called BS and said is a FPS.

Tell me, SW. I need your help to prove him wrong.

Yeah Pokemon Red, Blue, Gold, etc are not fighting games. Just like I wouldn't consider Portal an FPS.

Portal is a puzzle game at its core with FPS mechanics.

Portal is a puzzle game.

Sit your friend down, grab some doritioes and mountain dew and give him "The Talk". It is time.

His counter argument: It's an FPS-puzzle-platformer because there are shooting elements in the process.

My retort: If you don't really shoot a target but use a first-person setup to manipulate puzzle elements, does that negate the "shooter" component of FPS?

FPS is typically an action genre, but portal isnt really heavy on action, so it doesnt qualify. You are right when you say its a first person puzzle platformer.

Pokemon is not a fighting series, lol shouldnt have to explain that

Your friend doesn't know what an RPG is I guess.

I don't think that's the case. He's a diehard RPG gamer, and we both are obsessed with From Software games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne, but I think the problem is he's mostly been confined to PC or Playstation RPG's. I don't think he grew up with Nintendo the way I did or many others to know better.

Portal has First Person Shooter Elements in it yes, but it is not a "First Person Shooter" like Call of Duty or Battlefield.

Kinda like how Mirror's Edge is more of a First Person Platformer than a First Person Shooter even though there's FPS elements in the game.

The Mainline Pokemon games are however straight up RPG games. It is not a fighting game no matter how you spin it. Yes there is fighting, but if you consider the Mainline Pokemon games a Fighting game then the Final Fantasy games are now the new Street Fighter.

Mirror's Edge, excellent inclusion in this conversation! When I brought up Portal I knew there was another great example but it was not coming to mind..

There is literally no way you can call Pokemon a fighter. Maybe the Stadium games/Battle Revolution? But the actual mainline games are all RPGs.

Portal being an FPS is a much more palatable argument to me, on the other hand.

There is no way you can look at Pokemon Stadium or Battle Revolution as a fighter either. They are pretty much exactly the turn-based strategy of the main games minus anything remotely RPG. It's just the turn-based part and that's Pokemon Stadium for you.

The only times, in any video game up until Pokken Tournament where Pokemon has ever delved into any fighting genre is in Super Smash Bros.

@jaydan: I'm not saying those are fighting games, as much as I am saying I could at least understand an argument to be made for those games (with those games just emphasizing the actual battling and cutting out the actual RPG parts entirely). Apart from that, pre-Pokken Pokemon being called a fighter is just a big fat wat.

I also think Portal is a better argument, but I don't think it's a shooter at all.

I think it behaves like many puzzle games or even point and click adventures where you navigate a cursor across the environment, to pinpoint the areas of the puzzle you wish to manipulate. That is no different than any 2D puzzle game other than the fact it acts on an X/Y/Z plane rather than just X/Y like most puzzles games,

@jaydan: Yeah, Portal makes far more sense as a 3D translation of a physics based point and click puzzle game, you have that right, definitely.

I suppose I am very liberal with my definition of 'first person shooter' in a sense- for instance, I have always classified Metroid Prime as a first person shooter, which is a definition I understand to be controversial.

I think Metroid Prime is the ultimate debate under these regards, and the entire trilogy is among my all-time favorite game series. Got my steelbook Metroid Prime Trilogy and it's my most prized game package to be honest.

I consider it an FPS over the sake you do shoot and kill enemies for the majority of the game, but I also hear from many professionals and gaming communities alike that Metroid Prime is NOT an FPS but rather a first-person adventure game. It does not really make sense to me considering it's also a shooter. It just has an elegant blend of shooting, adventure and puzzling scenarios. I think Metroid Prime is a conglomerate of different game genres.

I personally say Metroid Prime is all of these things: FPS, Action-Adventure/platformer and Puzzle.

I assume your friend isn't much of a gamer.

I definitely agree with you. Prime definitely takes on aspects from multiple genres. In general, it is a slower, more deliberate game than shooters are- but that's why I think it is the best instance of an FPS that there is, basically I view it to be a more cerebral first person shooter than any other on the market- but I still view it to be a shooter regardless. It's a shooter, just a better designed, more nuanced one than most others that people associate with the genre.

I definitely agree with everything you say about Metroid Prime Trilogy.

While I can and have enjoyed FPS games, they all fall too formulaic for my tastes, and for my personal liking they must set themselves apart from the pack. Both Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite, for example, captivated me over their settings that were unlike any other game.

But even then, neither of those games or literally any FPS I have ever played in my life have ever eclipsed the amount of magic and joy I got off of the Metroid Prime games, and I think reasons why is very much for the reasons that you describe.

The only other video games that have ever come remotely close to the open-linked structure of Metroid Prime for me with a similar feel for getting lost in their worlds are actually games like Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne, but these obviously extend away from FPS into a completely different genre, yet they both share similar functions of existing in open-linked worlds, scavenging the world for upgrades and items that solve puzzles and epic boss battles and character designs.

These are the types of games I crave for most of all, compact open-linked action/adventure games with RPG elements with everything to do with exploration and discovering upgrades that unlock more doors, and the buildup of atmosphere and amazing boss battles.

It's a shame games of this caliber I find far and few between that match the quality of Metroid or Dark Souls.

@jaydan: The Souls games are definitely a lot like Metroid in structure. Generally, it comes down to the old notion of having 'Metroidvanias' (which I think the Souls games do a great job at being)- they are very satisfying experiences on the whole, and most shooters (or, let's face it, most games in general) are far too simplistic to deliver that same kind of joy or feeling of accomplishment that a Metroidvania can.

I always thought the description of Dark Souls or Bloodborne as the best 3D Castlevania games that we never got was particularly telling.

Haha, I agree! I was actually thinking of including Castlevania as another example but that's exclusive to 2D Castlevania and I'm more regarding the 3D experiences of that vein, and I think Metroid Prime and Dark Souls are by far the best 3D games reminiscent of that 2D Castlevania experience...well, Metroid does not have to be compared to Castlevania since it has its own 2D counterpart, but you know what I mean...

Sounds like we both favor these games most of all.

I'd recommend finding new friends.

I think you both need to look up what "genre" and "concept" means.

You're just up your friends butt, cause he looks at the concept, and you look at the genre of a Pokemon RPG.

And adding Portal was not needed, since you can't agree what Pokemon games are.