Phil Spencer - Positive response to Xbox One X BC will impact future plans

Avatar image for airraidjet
airraidjet

834

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#1 airraidjet
Member since 2006 • 834 Posts

It's almost a given that the next Xbox will be BC with all Xbox One / Xbox One X games. I'm sure PS5 will be BC with PS4 also. I doubt Sony will put as much effort into BC as Microsoft has but also know that getting PS3 games to run on PS4 isn't as easy as getting Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One family. PS3's CELL and Nvidia GPU aren't suitable for emulation on PS4 hardware.

Avatar image for tryit
TryIt

13157

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#2 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

i wish I knew what BC means in this context

Avatar image for Xabiss
Xabiss

4749

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@airraidjet said:

It's almost a given that the next Xbox will be BC with all Xbox One / Xbox One X games. I'm sure PS5 will be BC with PS4 also. I doubt Sony will put as much effort into BC as Microsoft has but also know that getting PS3 games to run on PS4 isn't as easy as getting Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One family. PS3's CELL and Nvidia GPU aren't suitable for emulation on PS4 hardware.

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

Avatar image for Archangel3371
Archangel3371

43988

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#4 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 43988 Posts

I love what Microsoft is doing with backwards compatibility. The improvements of the games running on the Xbox One and Xbox One X look great.

Avatar image for jjmarley
JJMarley

162

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 JJMarley
Member since 2015 • 162 Posts

So long as his future plans involve getting some got damn AAA games.

Avatar image for forthaplayaz
ForThaPlayaz

12

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#6  Edited By ForThaPlayaz
Member since 2018 • 12 Posts

Obviously he's talking about bringing back some old xbox franchises that they didn't feel their fanbase had any interest in and not the BC feature specifically.

These new games however won't been seen until the next generation.

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@Xabiss said:

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

Is obvious that you totally lack knowledge on how emulation work.

RECOMMENDED

  • Windows 7 and Later.
  • CPU: 3.2 GHz Intel/AMD Quad Core CPU or higher with SSE4.
  • GPU: NVIDIA GTX 660 or higher, ATI Radeon HD7870 or higher with 2GB of memory.
  • RAM: 2GB on Win 7/8/10 32-Bit, 4GB on Win 7/8/10 64

This is the recommended requirements for that emulator you talk,a 7870 or 660 to emulate a 7600GTX from 2005,and a 3.2GHZ quad core CPU with SSE4.

That hardware is actually stronger than the PS4.

Explain to me how the weaker Jaguar show on this picture will emulate cell which is actually outperforming it on this test done by ubisoft,oh and that was using 5 SPE,using 6 SPE would actually beat the xbox one jaguar as well.

Look how pathetic the xbox 360 cpu is,it beat by Cell by 300% margin,so its easy to emulate 360 games,on xbox one because the xbox one Jaguar has 3 times the performance of the 360 CPU,but that Jaguar can't emulate Cell at that speed.

PS Now is not backward compatibility silly lemming,is a rental service you may as well claim netflix is dvd backward compatibility while you are at it.

Remastering The Last of Us for PlayStation 4 isn't as simple as flipping a switch, according to Naughty Dog's Neil Druckmann. Speaking in an interview with Edge, the creative director explained the developer "expected it to be hell, and it was hell."

You see, the PlayStation 3 is a tricky piece of hardware, one for which The Last of Us "was optimized on a binary level." And even with some of the best engineers in the industry working on the project, "just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds… that took a long time."

https://www.destructoid.com/naughty-dog-porting-the-last-of-us-to-ps4-was-hell-275048.phtml

SPE were used in such a diverse way on PS3,that making a 1 size fits all emulator would have been to hard and would have take too much time.

BC on PS2 and PS3 was hardware based which is why sony unlike MS didn't have to pay a licensing,if you emulate you pay a license.

Other thing since Cell was able to run GPU task unlike that Jaguar or the 360 CPU,those process would have to be move to the GPU side of the PS4,so no is not as easy as emulating the xbox 360.

Avatar image for raugutcon
raugutcon

5576

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#8  Edited By raugutcon
Member since 2014 • 5576 Posts

Hell yeah ! Being able to play all your shit in just one device would be awesome, yeah I know there’s that device called pc but .... I like consoles.

Avatar image for Xabiss
Xabiss

4749

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@tormentos Again when you name call me a lemming that makes you look like a total dumb ass. When you add shit like this to your argument you look like a total fool and discredits your post.

Yes, I understand how all of that shit works and how powerful the cell was. The stats you brought up from emulation is from people creating an emulator that does not have near the engineers Sony would have and the know how of the actual hardware. I will always stand by the fact that Sony could do it if they wanted to. None of us will ever know if it is possible or not. It is just my opinion that Sony will not because why do they need to? They are the king and people buy the shit out of their remasters so why **** with BC. It is an easy revenue stream for them and people seem to enjoy the remasters. Just like Last of Us, why emulate when you can repackage the game, make it look better, and then charge people again for a game they may already own on another platform. Seems like a good play to me if you can get by with it.

If they can't do PS3, if it really was not possible. Why not do the PS2 or PS1? Is it not possible for the PS4 to handle those platforms either?

Avatar image for onesiphorus
onesiphorus

5234

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

#10 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 5234 Posts

Do we have enough Phil Spencer threads already?

Avatar image for henrythefifth
henrythefifth

2502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#11 henrythefifth
Member since 2016 • 2502 Posts

Oh gods... We do not want BC, we want NEW games!!!!

MS should do as Sony does; ignore BC, and keep bringing us gamers several AAA exclusives every month. Thats how you win the console war, not by forcing gamers to play old 360 rubbish on their new XboneX!

Could MS be more lost?

Avatar image for hrt_rulz01
hrt_rulz01

22368

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 22368 Posts

If I had a choice of either a console with proper BC like XB1 (and not just BC by itself but also 4k enhanced ones), or one that charges you each gen to re-buy the games or subscribe to a shitty streaming service, I'll take option A.

Avatar image for hitmanactual
HitmanActual

1351

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#13 HitmanActual
Member since 2013 • 1351 Posts

@onesiphorus said:

Do we have enough Phil Spencer threads already?

Phil getting an ass whoopin' lately...

Avatar image for seaofsalt
SeaofSalt

111

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#14 SeaofSalt
Member since 2018 • 111 Posts

@henrythefifth said:

Oh gods... We do not want BC, we want NEW games!!!!

MS should do as Sony does; ignore BC, and keep bringing us gamers several AAA exclusives every month. Thats how you win the console war, not by forcing gamers to play old 360 rubbish on their new XboneX!

Could MS be more lost?

What planet do you live on to think this is happening?

Avatar image for pouriarjj
pouriarjj

168

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#15 pouriarjj
Member since 2018 • 168 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@airraidjet said:

It's almost a given that the next Xbox will be BC with all Xbox One / Xbox One X games. I'm sure PS5 will be BC with PS4 also. I doubt Sony will put as much effort into BC as Microsoft has but also know that getting PS3 games to run on PS4 isn't as easy as getting Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One family. PS3's CELL and Nvidia GPU aren't suitable for emulation on PS4 hardware.

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

exactly, i mean some of the selling points of ps4 were the last of us remastered, uncharted ndc and ratchet and clank

Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#16 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@airraidjet said:

It's almost a given that the next Xbox will be BC with all Xbox One / Xbox One X games. I'm sure PS5 will be BC with PS4 also. I doubt Sony will put as much effort into BC as Microsoft has but also know that getting PS3 games to run on PS4 isn't as easy as getting Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One family. PS3's CELL and Nvidia GPU aren't suitable for emulation on PS4 hardware.

At the hardware level, PS3's NVIDIA GeForce 7 type GPU is still Direct3D type GPU just like ATI's Xenos.

PS4's Direct3D type GPU is a superset over PS3's RSX

Direct3D API translates to NV's GeForce 7

Direct3D API translates to ATI's Xenos.

Hence, there's some design commonality between ATI and NV GPUs.

All Direct3D type GPUs has certain design assumptions built into them.

The entire CELL (1 PPE + 7 SPEs) is harder to emulate, but single PPE + 2 SPUs could be emulated at satisfactory speeds on Xbox One type hardware. Not all PS3 games used the entire CELL's power.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos said:
@Xabiss said:

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

Is obvious that you totally lack knowledge on how emulation work.

RECOMMENDED

  • Windows 7 and Later.
  • CPU: 3.2 GHz Intel/AMD Quad Core CPU or higher with SSE4.
  • GPU: NVIDIA GTX 660 or higher, ATI Radeon HD7870 or higher with 2GB of memory.
  • RAM: 2GB on Win 7/8/10 32-Bit, 4GB on Win 7/8/10 64

This is the recommended requirements for that emulator you talk,a 7870 or 660 to emulate a 7600GTX from 2005,and a 3.2GHZ quad core CPU with SSE4.

That hardware is actually stronger than the PS4.

Explain to me how the weaker Jaguar show on this picture will emulate cell which is actually outperforming it on this test done by ubisoft,oh and that was using 5 SPE,using 6 SPE would actually beat the xbox one jaguar as well.

Look how pathetic the xbox 360 cpu is,it beat by Cell by 300% margin,so its easy to emulate 360 games,on xbox one because the xbox one Jaguar has 3 times the performance of the 360 CPU,but that Jaguar can't emulate Cell at that speed.

PS Now is not backward compatibility silly lemming,is a rental service you may as well claim netflix is dvd backward compatibility while you are at it.

Remastering The Last of Us for PlayStation 4 isn't as simple as flipping a switch, according to Naughty Dog's Neil Druckmann. Speaking in an interview with Edge, the creative director explained the developer "expected it to be hell, and it was hell."

You see, the PlayStation 3 is a tricky piece of hardware, one for which The Last of Us "was optimized on a binary level." And even with some of the best engineers in the industry working on the project, "just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds… that took a long time."

https://www.destructoid.com/naughty-dog-porting-the-last-of-us-to-ps4-was-hell-275048.phtml

SPE were used in such a diverse way on PS3,that making a 1 size fits all emulator would have been to hard and would have take too much time.

BC on PS2 and PS3 was hardware based which is why sony unlike MS didn't have to pay a licensing,if you emulate you pay a license.

Other thing since Cell was able to run GPU task unlike that Jaguar or the 360 CPU,those process would have to be move to the GPU side of the PS4,so no is not as easy as emulating the xbox 360.

Not all PS3 games has used the full CELL's power, hence PS4 could have emulate PS3 games with lite CELL usage e.g. one PPE + two SPEs. PS4 Pro's stronger CPU has better result e.g. one PPE + three SPEs

PC's open source PS3 emulators doesn't match Rosetta near-full static translation technique i.e. note why Xbox 360 games needs to be installed on XBO's hard drive.

Avatar image for blueinheaven
blueinheaven

5554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#18 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 5554 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@airraidjet said:

It's almost a given that the next Xbox will be BC with all Xbox One / Xbox One X games. I'm sure PS5 will be BC with PS4 also. I doubt Sony will put as much effort into BC as Microsoft has but also know that getting PS3 games to run on PS4 isn't as easy as getting Xbox 360 games to run on Xbox One family. PS3's CELL and Nvidia GPU aren't suitable for emulation on PS4 hardware.

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

You're talking as though remasters on PS4 (they are also on Xbox One) is a bad thing. It absolutely is not.

Look how good RDR looks on Xbox One X with just a res boost and filtering and imagine how it would look on the same machine with a 'proper' remaster, new textures and character models etc.

BC is a good thing but given a choice I would rather have a remaster of old games than just have the PS3 version running on PS4 or the 360 version running on Xbox One and yes I consider a proper remaster worth paying for.

Avatar image for cainetao11
cainetao11

38026

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 77

User Lists: 1

#19 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@tormentos: Hey bro welcome back! I know you folks got hit hard by the hurricane and had you and PR in my thoughts and charitable giving. Hope it all worked out ok dude.

Avatar image for OniLordAsmodeus
OniLordAsmodeus

381

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20 OniLordAsmodeus
Member since 2010 • 381 Posts

@tormentos said:
@Xabiss said:

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

Is obvious that you totally lack knowledge on how emulation work.

RECOMMENDED

  • Windows 7 and Later.
  • CPU: 3.2 GHz Intel/AMD Quad Core CPU or higher with SSE4.
  • GPU: NVIDIA GTX 660 or higher, ATI Radeon HD7870 or higher with 2GB of memory.
  • RAM: 2GB on Win 7/8/10 32-Bit, 4GB on Win 7/8/10 64

This is the recommended requirements for that emulator you talk,a 7870 or 660 to emulate a 7600GTX from 2005,and a 3.2GHZ quad core CPU with SSE4.

That hardware is actually stronger than the PS4.

Explain to me how the weaker Jaguar show on this picture will emulate cell which is actually outperforming it on this test done by ubisoft,oh and that was using 5 SPE,using 6 SPE would actually beat the xbox one jaguar as well.

Look how pathetic the xbox 360 cpu is,it beat by Cell by 300% margin,so its easy to emulate 360 games,on xbox one because the xbox one Jaguar has 3 times the performance of the 360 CPU,but that Jaguar can't emulate Cell at that speed.

PS Now is not backward compatibility silly lemming,is a rental service you may as well claim netflix is dvd backward compatibility while you are at it.

Remastering The Last of Us for PlayStation 4 isn't as simple as flipping a switch, according to Naughty Dog's Neil Druckmann. Speaking in an interview with Edge, the creative director explained the developer "expected it to be hell, and it was hell."

You see, the PlayStation 3 is a tricky piece of hardware, one for which The Last of Us "was optimized on a binary level." And even with some of the best engineers in the industry working on the project, "just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds… that took a long time."

https://www.destructoid.com/naughty-dog-porting-the-last-of-us-to-ps4-was-hell-275048.phtml

SPE were used in such a diverse way on PS3,that making a 1 size fits all emulator would have been to hard and would have take too much time.

BC on PS2 and PS3 was hardware based which is why sony unlike MS didn't have to pay a licensing,if you emulate you pay a license.

Other thing since Cell was able to run GPU task unlike that Jaguar or the 360 CPU,those process would have to be move to the GPU side of the PS4,so no is not as easy as emulating the xbox 360.

This. This SO MUCH!

For some reason people forget that to do emulation on PS, Sony usually just includes the hardware from the previous Gen to help in this process. With the PS3's Cell architecture, that threw a HUGE wrench in BC on PlayStation. MS has been investing in BC software emulation for YEARS now. They've been building their current platform with all that in mind so that their games can be emulated on general PC architecture, current Xbox hardware, and future hardware, all to serve the proposed "Windows Anywhere" vision they laid out YEARS ago.

I think it is a given that Sony and MS will both work to make future console BC a major sticking point in the future, but there is no doubt that MS is WAY ahead of Sony on this front.

Avatar image for hrt_rulz01
hrt_rulz01

22368

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 22368 Posts

@OniLordAsmodeus: Sony probably doesn't have the expertise to do it. Or it'd be so time consuming and costly for them, it's probably not worth it in their eyes. Anyway, time will tell.

Avatar image for tigerbalm
Tigerbalm

1118

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#22 Tigerbalm
Member since 2017 • 1118 Posts

5 years in and Fill Spinckter still talking about BC.

Avatar image for BenjaminBanklin
BenjaminBanklin

11002

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 11002 Posts

Microsoft to focus all their efforts on b/c only. "This is so much easier than coming up with new games", said vice-president of gaming, Phil Spencer.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#24 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin said:

Microsoft to focus all their efforts on b/c only. "This is so much easier than coming up with new games", said vice-president of gaming, Phil Spencer.

MS has more system level programmer employee count than Sony e.g. part of Windows NT kernel team was move to Xbox Team

Avatar image for drlostrib
DrLostRib

5931

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#25 DrLostRib
Member since 2017 • 5931 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@BenjaminBanklin said:

Microsoft to focus all their efforts on b/c only. "This is so much easier than coming up with new games", said vice-president of gaming, Phil Spencer.

MS has more system level programmer employee count than Sony e.g. part of Windows NT kernel team was move to Xbox Team

are they making games?

Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#26 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos said:
@Xabiss said:

Please stop with this false narrative bullshit. Sony damn well could emulate the PS3 just fine. Hell people already have emulators on PC that run PS3 games and they don't have near the know how about the hardware or access like Sony does. The PS4 and Xbox are just shitty PCs running propitiatory OSes. The Xbox 360 ran a RISC based CPU and they are emulating all of that shit just fine over to X86 so please stop with the Sony couldn't do it bullshit. They like milking their fans with PS Now and rereleased games. People are buying them so it is just more cash flow for them.

That is what you get when you are the king. :P

Is obvious that you totally lack knowledge on how emulation work.

RECOMMENDED

  • Windows 7 and Later.
  • CPU: 3.2 GHz Intel/AMD Quad Core CPU or higher with SSE4.
  • GPU: NVIDIA GTX 660 or higher, ATI Radeon HD7870 or higher with 2GB of memory.
  • RAM: 2GB on Win 7/8/10 32-Bit, 4GB on Win 7/8/10 64

This is the recommended requirements for that emulator you talk,a 7870 or 660 to emulate a 7600GTX from 2005,and a 3.2GHZ quad core CPU with SSE4.

That hardware is actually stronger than the PS4.

Explain to me how the weaker Jaguar show on this picture will emulate cell which is actually outperforming it on this test done by ubisoft,oh and that was using 5 SPE,using 6 SPE would actually beat the xbox one jaguar as well.

Look how pathetic the xbox 360 cpu is,it beat by Cell by 300% margin,so its easy to emulate 360 games,on xbox one because the xbox one Jaguar has 3 times the performance of the 360 CPU,but that Jaguar can't emulate Cell at that speed.

PS Now is not backward compatibility silly lemming,is a rental service you may as well claim netflix is dvd backward compatibility while you are at it.

Remastering The Last of Us for PlayStation 4 isn't as simple as flipping a switch, according to Naughty Dog's Neil Druckmann. Speaking in an interview with Edge, the creative director explained the developer "expected it to be hell, and it was hell."

You see, the PlayStation 3 is a tricky piece of hardware, one for which The Last of Us "was optimized on a binary level." And even with some of the best engineers in the industry working on the project, "just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds… that took a long time."

https://www.destructoid.com/naughty-dog-porting-the-last-of-us-to-ps4-was-hell-275048.phtml

SPE were used in such a diverse way on PS3,that making a 1 size fits all emulator would have been to hard and would have take too much time.

BC on PS2 and PS3 was hardware based which is why sony unlike MS didn't have to pay a licensing,if you emulate you pay a license.

Other thing since Cell was able to run GPU task unlike that Jaguar or the 360 CPU,those process would have to be move to the GPU side of the PS4,so no is not as easy as emulating the xbox 360.

SPE's GPU abilities are gather instructions which X86 CPU already has a form of it e.g. LEA instructions with loaded data elements.

Should I repost Swiftshader example again?

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@Xabiss said:

@tormentos Again when you name call me a lemming that makes you look like a total dumb ass. When you add shit like this to your argument you look like a total fool and discredits your post.

Yes, I understand how all of that shit works and how powerful the cell was. The stats you brought up from emulation is from people creating an emulator that does not have near the engineers Sony would have and the know how of the actual hardware. I will always stand by the fact that Sony could do it if they wanted to. None of us will ever know if it is possible or not. It is just my opinion that Sony will not because why do they need to? They are the king and people buy the shit out of their remasters so why **** with BC. It is an easy revenue stream for them and people seem to enjoy the remasters. Just like Last of Us, why emulate when you can repackage the game, make it look better, and then charge people again for a game they may already own on another platform. Seems like a good play to me if you can get by with it.

If they can't do PS3, if it really was not possible. Why not do the PS2 or PS1? Is it not possible for the PS4 to handle those platforms either?

NO you should stop the bullshit,every time some one say something about the xbox one you get highyly anal about it,yet some one say something about the PS4 and you don't get like that,is not me is you lemming.

Your post are here and i can quote quite a few of your pro xbox meltdowns.

That stat i posted there is from Ubisoft not from the emulator makers,it show how much dancers each CPU could handle and how the many GPU could handle is you see,it clearly show Cell actually outperforming the Jaguar inside the PS4,how can you emulate Cell with a CPU that can't even beat Cell to begin with in compute power.?

Yes i am sure they could probably make a PS2 emulator,in fact there were rumors that they did had a working one on PS3,and PS1 even easier,but if you look MS BC was only 360 first then they added some xbox games,is not like MS can't emulate the OG xbox as well from the get go yet they didn't either.

Non had backward compatibility in mind when this generation started,even that MS could have done it far easier than sony,the 360 use a ATI (amd) GPU and the xenon CPU was easy to emulate,BC was an afterthought which is why it doesn't work with all games.

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: Hey bro welcome back! I know you folks got hit hard by the hurricane and had you and PR in my thoughts and charitable giving. Hope it all worked out ok dude.

Thanks bro starting post a little more,work is never ending,we have ships coming everyday this week alone i worked 6 days and took the day off today. I was thinking of moving to Virginia,but postponed it for now to much work.

Thanks again bro for your concern. :)

@ronvalencia said:

SPE's GPU abilities are gather instructions which X86 CPU already has a form of it e.g. LEA instructions with loaded data elements.

Should I repost Swiftshader example again?

What the hell are you crying about this time?

This is simple that Jaguar inside the PS4 Can't emulate Cell is just to shitty slow and weak,and Ubisoft prove it,so unless you have a chart showing that Jaguar emulating Cell i say you have nothing,don't derail my argument.

Avatar image for OniLordAsmodeus
OniLordAsmodeus

381

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28  Edited By OniLordAsmodeus
Member since 2010 • 381 Posts

@hrt_rulz01 said:

@OniLordAsmodeus: Sony probably doesn't have the expertise to do it. Or it'd be so time consuming and costly for them, it's probably not worth it in their eyes. Anyway, time will tell.

Nah. Sony can invest in whatever they want, and it is clear that they (and many of there supporters) don't feel BC is worth the investment. It is a choice they have made for better or worse.

Objectively today, Sony is announcing and releasing new IPs, where MS is making announcements about BC titles. The primary focuses of the companies are pretty clear.

Avatar image for ten_pints
Ten_Pints

4072

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#29  Edited By Ten_Pints
Member since 2014 • 4072 Posts

guess they are gonna put Sega console emulators in the Xbox One then... then sell people games they already own.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

43933

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 43933 Posts

Thank you, Phil, under your direction Tons of value added services came to X1X and all for free. You da man especially if you deliver a phenom E3 which I'm certain you will.

Avatar image for calvincfb
Calvincfb

0

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#31 Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

I really hope ps5 BC is not this bullcrap emulated shit, but actually hardware supported like ps2 before it.

That said, it's sad that the only thing lems have to look forward to on Xbox is BC.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#32 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@calvincfb said:

I really hope ps5 BC is not this bullcrap emulated shit, but actually hardware supported like ps2 before it.

That said, it's sad that the only thing lems have to look forward to on Xbox is BC.

PS5 seems to be a super-set of PS4 Pro.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#33  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tormentos said:
@Xabiss said:

@tormentos Again when you name call me a lemming that makes you look like a total dumb ass. When you add shit like this to your argument you look like a total fool and discredits your post.

Yes, I understand how all of that shit works and how powerful the cell was. The stats you brought up from emulation is from people creating an emulator that does not have near the engineers Sony would have and the know how of the actual hardware. I will always stand by the fact that Sony could do it if they wanted to. None of us will ever know if it is possible or not. It is just my opinion that Sony will not because why do they need to? They are the king and people buy the shit out of their remasters so why **** with BC. It is an easy revenue stream for them and people seem to enjoy the remasters. Just like Last of Us, why emulate when you can repackage the game, make it look better, and then charge people again for a game they may already own on another platform. Seems like a good play to me if you can get by with it.

If they can't do PS3, if it really was not possible. Why not do the PS2 or PS1? Is it not possible for the PS4 to handle those platforms either?

NO you should stop the bullshit,every time some one say something about the xbox one you get highyly anal about it,yet some one say something about the PS4 and you don't get like that,is not me is you lemming.

Your post are here and i can quote quite a few of your pro xbox meltdowns.

That stat i posted there is from Ubisoft not from the emulator makers,it show how much dancers each CPU could handle and how the many GPU could handle is you see,it clearly show Cell actually outperforming the Jaguar inside the PS4,how can you emulate Cell with a CPU that can't even beat Cell to begin with in compute power.?

Yes i am sure they could probably make a PS2 emulator,in fact there were rumors that they did had a working one on PS3,and PS1 even easier,but if you look MS BC was only 360 first then they added some xbox games,is not like MS can't emulate the OG xbox as well from the get go yet they didn't either.

Non had backward compatibility in mind when this generation started,even that MS could have done it far easier than sony,the 360 use a ATI (amd) GPU and the xenon CPU was easy to emulate,BC was an afterthought which is why it doesn't work with all games.

@cainetao11 said:

@tormentos: Hey bro welcome back! I know you folks got hit hard by the hurricane and had you and PR in my thoughts and charitable giving. Hope it all worked out ok dude.

Thanks bro starting post a little more,work is never ending,we have ships coming everyday this week alone i worked 6 days and took the day off today. I was thinking of moving to Virginia,but postponed it for now to much work.

Thanks again bro for your concern. :)

@ronvalencia said:

SPE's GPU abilities are gather instructions which X86 CPU already has a form of it e.g. LEA instructions with loaded data elements.

Should I repost Swiftshader example again?

What the hell are you crying about this time?

This is simple that Jaguar inside the PS4 Can't emulate Cell is just to shitty slow and weak,and Ubisoft prove it,so unless you have a chart showing that Jaguar emulating Cell i say you have nothing,don't derail my argument.

You claimed X86 CPU can't do GPU work. CELL's SPE is just Altivec kitbash with enforced local memory paging.

Swiftshader is multi-threading Direct3D9c software renderer that respect cache boundaries (set in config file).

SPE's gather instruction is only at local memory level. I know PowerPC Altivec. SPE doesn't have fix function GPU hardware functions.

On modern GPUs, gather instruction is at register memory storage level (hyper-threading registers level)

Jaguar 8 core at 1.6Ghz has either ~100 GFLOPS FP32 or ~200 GFLOPS FP16 (half float, rapid pack math ala Vega).

SPE's 128bit SIMD doesn't have 8 element packed FP16 (half float) feature i.e. stuck at quad element packed FP32/INT16 or 8 element packed INT16. SPE can't increase it's FLOPS with FP16.

Jaguar has A+B and A x B without penalty i.e. executes in parallel

SPE's A+B and A x B has 6 cycle penalty. Handles A x B + C without penalty aka FMA.

For SPE

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c132/8ec23bc54a5533c57b4b54c74c6fe31d4c65.pdf

The main instruction class of the SPfpu are fusedmultiply-add instructions A B C and derivatives like A + B and A x B, which have a 6-cycle latency

For Jaguar

http://www.agner.org/optimize/instruction_tables.pdf page 102

Plenty of arithmetic instructions in 1 cycle latency!

Avatar image for cainetao11
cainetao11

38026

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 77

User Lists: 1

#34 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38026 Posts

@tormentos: No problem dude. We may bicker on this bullshit forum but I don't wish anything bad on anyone. Glad to have your craziness back!! LOL

Avatar image for APiranhaAteMyVa
APiranhaAteMyVa

4160

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 APiranhaAteMyVa
Member since 2011 • 4160 Posts

Imagine having your console flop so hard. that the main plan for the future is to make a new console play the games of your only successful console.

They should just re-release the Xbox 360 and say look we have already sold 80 million at launch, Sony BTFO.

Avatar image for quadknight
QuadKnight

12916

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36 QuadKnight
Member since 2015 • 12916 Posts

That moment when your console flops so hard with games that the only thing you have to look forward to is limited BC.

Avatar image for rafaelmsoares
rafaelmsoares

657

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#37  Edited By rafaelmsoares
Member since 2018 • 657 Posts

So.... The next XBox main feature will be running old games? Well... you do you, Phil... it sure did work with the Xbone, didn't it?

Avatar image for tryit
TryIt

13157

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#38  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

Question:

-------------------------------

Phil Spencer‏Verified account @XboxP3

FollowFollow @XboxP3MoreReplying to @Crypt_Concepts

I'm always learning, it's key for me. I've learned a ton from the response to X from gamers and studios, trust me that this learning is impacting our future plans.

---------------------------------

why would this person out of 350 million people in the U.S. be in charge of the gaming division of one of the largest players in the gaming industry?

Avatar image for robert_sparkes
robert_sparkes

7181

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#39 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 7181 Posts

MS were over confident going into this gen Sony have always had the install base once ms messed up with the announcement of the Xbox one Sony capitalized and never looked back.

Avatar image for tryit
TryIt

13157

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#40 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@robert_sparkes said:

MS were over confident going into this gen Sony have always had the install base once ms messed up with the announcement of the Xbox one Sony capitalized and never looked back.

and I would LOVE to see the numbers on how many people actually use their Xbox for sports, TV and Twitter. I bet its really low

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@ronvalencia said:

You claimed X86 CPU can't do GPU work. CELL's SPE is just Altivec kitbash with enforced local memory paging.

Swiftshader is multi-threading Direct3D9c software renderer that respect cache boundaries (set in config file).

SPE's gather instruction is only at local memory level. I know PowerPC Altivec. SPE doesn't have fix function GPU hardware functions.

On modern GPUs, gather instruction is at register memory storage level (hyper-threading registers level)

Jaguar 8 core at 1.6Ghz has either ~100 GFLOPS FP32 or ~200 GFLOPS FP16 (half float, rapid pack math ala Vega).

SPE's 128bit SIMD doesn't have 8 element packed FP16 (half float) feature i.e. stuck at quad element packed FP32/INT16 or 8 element packed INT16. SPE can't increase it's FLOPS with FP16.

Jaguar has A+B and A x B without penalty i.e. executes in parallel

SPE's A+B and A x B has 6 cycle penalty. Handles A x B + C without penalty aka FMA.

For SPE

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c132/8ec23bc54a5533c57b4b54c74c6fe31d4c65.pdf

For Jaguar

http://www.agner.org/optimize/instruction_tables.pdf page 102

Plenty of arithmetic instructions in 1 cycle latency!

Not to the point SPE can and it is a FACT unless you are talking about a APU like Intel CPU with integrated graphics or AMD versions as well.

That was the reason why Folding home was so good on PS3 vs PC CPU.

Flops mean total shit when you are talking about different architectures so don't even dare,Nvidia vs AMD has prove that for years.

That jaguar inside the PS4 can't emulate Cell,emulation requires much more power than the jaguar has,emulating the weak xenon was another 2 cents,that jaguar has more than 3 times the xbox 360 cpu performance so it can emulate it.

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@APiranhaAteMyVa said:

Imagine having your console flop so hard. that the main plan for the future is to make a new console play the games of your only successful console.

They should just re-release the Xbox 360 and say look we have already sold 80 million at launch, Sony BTFO.

That is my biggest problem with it,lemmings last gen were enjoy movies and music more on xbox live than games,and Kinect sold record breaking,yeah fast forward to this generation,MS gave lemmings just that a Kinect continuation and a weak console that was movie and tv oriented,it wasn't a casualty MS was giving lemmings what they were asking for.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/business/media/19xbox.html.

2010.

https://gizmodo.com/5780198/kinect-is-the-fastest-selling-consumer-electronics-device-of-all-time

2011.

Lemmings got what they asked for,the watched more movies than play games on xbox 360,then they bought kinect in big numbers,and MS deliver with the xbox one what they wanted.

Fast forward to 2018 now MS is focusing in Backward compatibility 5 years after the release of the xbox one,and now is making comments on how the response of xbox fans to BC is been heard and will be answer..

When then next xbox release with few games with BC with 360 and xbox one,you know why.

BC is good at the start of the generation were games are scarce but 5 years into the gen that shit should not even been be a topic.