PCmag.com: Xbox One Is the New Standard That Future Consoles Should Imitate

Ok fair point. What I said was stupid then.

@sealionact: "Who were Sony crossplaying with if it wasn't with a PC running MICROSOFT'S Windows?"

That's really desperate damage control. We're talking about the Xbox here and anybody can make a game for Windows without MS having anything to do with it.

"The HDD was external, didn't work like a HDD, and came out TWO YEARS after the launch of the Xbox in the US. Big fail there......and are you saying that a console that had an HDD as well as memory cards is somehow worse than a console that has only memory cards?"

It came before the Xbox in Japan, so in the timeline Sony did it first. You can't copy something that came afterwards you dummy.

"Uh ..... point is your 360 game will work without gamepass, and you don't need to pay anything at all. "

We're talking about the renting service not BC and we already established that Sony had BC for 2 generations before MS so if anyone copied the other it was MS copying Sony. And they did a half-assed copy since Sony actually had full BC not like MS which has partial BC.

"I mean, are you trying to make yourself look silly?"

No, but you did achieve to look silly pretty effectively.

Sony sort of had it first(it was only used for an installation of a game I don't think using it for game saves came out until after the US debut in 2004 and even then you needed a memory card to shuttle information to and from the HDD and only certain games could use it), but the implementation that actually ended up being the blueprint for the industry was the xbox implementation. BC has existed long before SONY(you could play Atari 2600 games on the 5200 back in the early 80's).

Software implementation is preferable to shoving hardware in the box as games can be enhanced and modernized and that work can carry over to further generations. Do you want the PS5 to have hardware for the previous 4 geneations jammed in the box?

Wth are you saying? lol, no. It doesn't matter who did it first, the point is that someone other than MS did it first and the point was to show that Sony is not really copying so much MS innovations since Sony did similar stuff first and if it already existed before MS released is not really so innovative, is more like a build up on a past idea. What MS really innovated on was microtransactions and paid online, those were really a first on Xbox because when reaping people off is concerned can't get more innovative than MS lol.

@zappat: "It came before the Xbox in Japan, so in the timeline Sony did it first. "

Did what first? Allow you to buy a HDD for a console? Which did nothing that a HDD is supposed to do except improve loading times? Xbox was the first console that came with a HDD. There's no debating that.

"anybody can make a game for Windows without MS having anything to do with it."

How does Microsoft have nothing to do with Windows?

"We're talking about the renting service not BC and we already established that Sony had BC for 2 generations before MS"

Nope, you said we would be paying to play 360 games if we paid for gamepass. That would be like saying you have to pay again to play PS4 games on psnow, even if you own them.

You don't need to pay again if you own the game. Yes, Sony had BC two gens ago, then dumped it on the same console and hasn't done it since. Past tense.

Living on past glories.....you're not a Liverpool fan are you by any chance?

"Xbox was the first console that came with a HDD."

It wasn't the first console to use a HDD so there goes the innovation BS.

"How does Microsoft have nothing to do with Windows?"

They have nothing to do with the game FFXIV and its crossplay between PS4 and PC. Smart up lem, this is not exactly rocket science here.

"Nope, you said we would be paying to play 360 games if we paid for gamepass."

Where did I say that? Learn to read before making a fool of yourself further.

"Yes, Sony had BC two gens ago"

Thanks for confirming it wasn't MS innovative idea and that Sony didn't copy it from them which was exactly my point.

as a side note, being the PC gamer I am I havent looked at PC mag in ages so I thought I would take a look.

why dont they cover stories about PCs?

@knight-k: This thread and the X thread prove that your fanbase are the losers, even when your fanbase is winning you act like losers.

Worst fanbase in gaming history confirmed.

^ See as soon as i say something a cow magically appears and confirms it lol

@zappat: MS had to show the smart way to use a

Hdd... Sony had it first and needed somebody else to use it in an intelligent manner. They had 40 gigs available and went even smart enough to use it to replace 8 megabyte memory card.... talk about dumb. It was available 3 months earlier... so since they machines are in development for 18 to 24 months there xbox was designed before Sony halfassed the implementation even after ms showed the xbox at ces in January 2001

@deeph: those are literally the dumbest attempts at insults I've seen.

"insults" lol. More like factual descriptions.

I am surprised that anyone would try to attempt to discredit MS for innovating with the inclusion of HDD on a console. It is the first console to include and it was the console to ELIMINATE memory cards.

These fools actually believed that HDD in the Xbox was due to Sony when the Xbox was designed to be a PC Box.

Trying to add the forced "Chad" meme to Cows? Jesus. Chads and Cucks? It's like you dipped into the "Old and Used Memes" bin and scraped the bottom of the barrel.

I mean, MS seems to have learned from its mistakes in a lot of ways. The adaptive controller deserves more praise, BC is pretty darn good and gets better all the time, and the game pass is definitely a good deal (though I’m concerned about the long term cost effectiveness...meaning I think the price is going to have to go up if MS is pumping money into a ton of games that will be on it). So, honestly I think that future consoles have plenty to emulate.

Though I did laugh when the writer held Killer Instincts up to BotW and Spider-man and tried to play it off that MS had a game just as good. I mean, he should have left it with comparing Forza as that at least holds up, haha.

Yeah. Origin Access Premier is $20, but offers a pretty limited selection. I grabbed it for early BFV access, and i'll keep it for early Anthem access, but other than that i've only tried a few games (Crysis 2/Crysis 3/DA:I.) If MS do the same and go up to $20, but give access to new games in a similar fashion, and even limited BC without disks, i'd be all for it. If they continue with these dev purchases like Obsidian, then they could build a seriously good catalogue of games.

Lol, thanks for the laughs in this thread cows... you really are all very entertaining.

And kinda proves MS is on the right track.

Clearly not serious here...

Are we really trying to complicate the debate more than is necessary? Simply put: I buy a gaming console to play games, of which Xbox has none. It's not as though the exclusive games on Switch and PS4 are low-quality either, so there is simply no argument to be had here.

Again, it's clear as day what kind of crap this guy is pulling. Microsoft's shopping spree is also a clear sign that they've thrown in the towel this gen. Facts > crappy opinions.

@deeph: Thanks for confirming it again, cows just continue to own themselves lol.

Dom Mattrick was a shitty business man! You wish he was still running Xbox after he destroyed the brand from a gaming console to "All-in-One Entertainment" console. I'm glad he's gone after focusing on Kinect and wasted effort on getting the "Wii Audience"

@Miyomatic: and yet you pulled out the no games argument which does complicate the argument and is patently false.

2X1 sales (and lets be honest a lot less of a margin in the biggest markets of North America and UK as they would have you believe) They are killing it in Romania, Asia and Africa though.

Yet the most insecure fan base ever! Sony is killing this gen not arguing that. But has done literally nothing pro consumer this gen at all, and if anything is fighting it tooth and nail. Arrogant Sony is back!

Don't believe me? Watch the hate come my way! And number questions. this is getting old.

They just cant handle any glimmer of light from Xbox, and cant enjoy their system without crapping on the other.

It doesn't matter, I realize you're not very smart but if Sony released it before, Sony couldn't have copied it. And the Hdd was for more than replace memory cards fyi.

1. You are applying Nintendo's business model on a different platform business model. MS DOS/Windows clone PC business model enables Microsoft to minimally invest into 1st party programs while Windows OS beats OS alternatives e.g. AmigaOS lost the system war due to missing certain 3rd party A/AA/AAA programs. This mindset was copied into Xbox hence minimal investment with 1st party games until somebody at MS's executive board looked and argued for Netflix business model.

3rd party developers and clone hardware business has fueled MS-DOS/Windows dominance over alternatives. If Sony has apps on Windows, I select Windows over other OS alternative.

Microsoft has kick-out Sony's optical disc DRM root kits programs from Windows XP for increasing Microsoft's help line support!

Microsoft in the past has kicked out 3rd party program (blocked from installing) that causes BSOD that floods their help line support.

Recently, Microsoft kicked out certain HP keyboard driver during Windows 10 1809 update due to mass BSOD problem. MS has the market power to tell HP to stop mass BSOD.

Microsoft has the technical means to remotely kick-out 3rd party apps from Windows!

It's counter productive to block 3rd party applications from Windows that enhances it's desirability over alternative OS, but software causing mass BSODs that doesn't enhance Windows desirability, hence it gets kicked out.

Retail XBO in dev mode doesn't need MS intervention i.e. it's like Windows UWP environment without Explorer.exe desktop component.

XBO business model, enhanced DRM , consistent hardware environment. MS remotely managed OS and drivers installation.

Windows business model, clone hardware 2nd source and lower entry dev barriers.

Microsoft control's Windows development direction. There's many design choices within X86 PC that has Microsoft's bias e.g. ACPI** table, HAL ACPI**, high performance timers, UEFI secure boot (Microsoft has self sign capability), X86-64 vs legacy 32bit X86 instruction set co-designer. MS says we don't support IBM's PowerPC 620's X86/Power64 hybrid and this project dies while MS supports AMD64 i.e. fellow ex-DEC engineers between VAX (@Windows NT) and Alpha CPU (@AMD) teams bias.

**Microsoft's ACPI variant instead of open (dead) standard ACPI.

@ronvalencia: So MS cleans up Windows from security issues? Wtf does that have to do with FFXIV and crossplay with PS3-PS4? Are you autistic?

Hint: the next Xbox hardware is less than 3 years away, 7 nm process tech based hardware product. AMD's 7nm PC parts starts next year with consoles following behind.

My comments are against "We're talking about the Xbox here and anybody can make a game for Windows without MS having anything to do with it."

Blocking HP drivers are not security issue.

Must be hard work for sad Xbone fanboys: To roam the net for weeks just to find someone who likes Xbone!

And then come here with that discovery.

We Playstation owners need not stoop that low, as everyone loves Playstation. Playstation is the number one console, and Sony's way of doing things is the best. Officially best. Deal.

So you're saying someone had to ask MS permission to make FFXIV with crossplay on Windows? You can't possibly be this dumb

The stupid person is you. As long FFXIV doesn't cause mass BSOD that floods MSFT's help lines, FFXIV is allowed to operate on Microsoft Windows PC. You don't own Windows, but licence from MSFT i.e. MS retains ownership over Windows.

@zappat: the sad thing is you have no clue how stupid you appear to be. Sony copied AOL the functionality of how we use HDD in consoles directly from MS. Its funny how often cows get a feature and think it's so awesome and lems have had it for years. The xbox is basically the granddaddy of the ps4... while the older complicated custom architectures of Sony have fallen by the wayside.

PS3's CELL was the last non-commodity design while PS4 is largely AMD's PC where even AMD Linux Vulkan/OpenGL PC drivers recognize it as Liverpool APU. PS4's CPUs are a little slow for desktop PC roles while Ryzen powered PS5 would be fine with desktop PC Linux/FreeBSD roles.

Sony sold thier X86 Vaio PC business to Japan Industrial Partners while PS4 enables Sony re-enter X86 business again.

Sony still holds Vaio brand, trademarks and maintains a minority stake in Vaio Corporation. https://us.vaio.com/vaio-s/

Vaio S13 looks like upgraded Vaio laptop which I purchased FW-45 model back in 2008. I selected HP Envy x360 due to similarity with my old Sony FW-45 model laptop i.e. thin and metallic finish.

Lmao you really are a moron, such a simple concept as an operating system being open for development for anyone is apparently too complex for you to understand. Amazing dude.

Actually the PS1 is the grandaddy of the Xbox, without it MS wouldn't have made a Xbox or used a disc drive on it. And if consoles are related, the Xbox would be like the starving poor cousin living under a bridge with no games.

Retail XBO in dev mode doesn't need MS intervention i.e. it's like Windows UWP environment without Explorer.exe desktop component.

Retail XBO in dev mode can run homebrew apps. DRM jail break is not needed.

The only stupid person is you.

The fact is that MS had no say in the development of FFXIV and its crossplay functionality. Whatever stupidity you're trying to say with your kindergarden-level english doesn't change that fact.

So what? My comment is against "We're talking about the Xbox here and anybody can make a game for Windows without MS having anything to do with it."

Both retail Xbox One in dev mode and Windows PC allows end users to develop and run apps without MS being involved.

For mass app deployment on non dev-mode XBO, MS's DRM must get involved and enforced.

For mass app deployment on Windows, app shouldn't cause mass BSOD. DRM is optional on PC. Valid certificate signed executable is recommended to avoid warning message at start up. Driver signed certificate is enforced, hence news media blowup with mobile Ryzen vega driver lack of update issue i.e. end user couldn't modify INF to insert their laptop's device IDs.

The only stupid person is you.

"App shouldn't cause massive BSOD". Well duh, that is true for any OS since it would render it useless, still this has nothing to do with the FACT that FFXIV didn't have to be financed, distributed, developed or approved by MS in any shape or form. Are you 5 years old?

There you go using numbers again, we all know its not your strong suit.

I don't care how you think it was. Who did it first? whos idea was? :)

NO they are NOT in any freaking way,the first xbox didn't install games on its HDD it was to damn small,the PS2 did allow to install games in fact the HDD came with FF11,the 360 again didn't allow for full games install until much much later in the gen.The PS3 again partially installed games as well as a mean to speed up loading assets.

So no the HDD is use now how it was used by the PS2 back then to install games,MS hdd was for saves and using your own music not to install games which is how it is done now like PC.

Game pass is nothing more than PS Now rip off with newer games,the fact that you can download games doesn't change the fact that if you stop paying you can't play them any more,is a rental service just like PS Now is,games with gold is a rip off as well of PSN+.

Yes but i didn't claim sony invented cross play,fact is sony did cross play way before MS did with the xbox,and you people falsely claim it doesn't do cross play because not all multiplatform games do it with the xbox or switch,fact is they have been doing it since launch again MS all is doing is 180 damage control nothing more.

Sonychads bullied Xcucks so hard that they started to be proud of their victimcomplex, what a pathetic bunch of losers lol.

Sounds like he took Microsoft's PR one-sheet and repurposed it as an editorial. It's pretty shameless, really.

Who knows who's idea it was first? As stated already, two products that take a minimum of 18 months to develop release within 3 months of each other. The xbox drive was available for every game to use from day 1 was used to cache info from the DVD drive(5 years before the PS3), the PS2 harddrive was only for FF11 for a long time, and even after, games had to be programmed with it in mind for another year or two.

The PS3 would partially install parts of the game on the HDD and still read some assets off the bluray. The 360 allowed FULL game installs and the disc was only used as owner verification. Which of these two sounds like the way games are installed now?

Neither gamepass nor PSNow is exactly a new idea they're both digital rental services which have existed for other media for years before either came out. We'd have to see how well PS4 games would perform on the service to truly compare, but I have a hard time believing that streaming it is going to give equivalent performance for the end user.

Woohoo, Sony did crossplay before MS...even though both were beat by 12 years or so by the Dreamcast.

Do you guys even think any of this through?

Shit article is shit. More consoles should copy the console that’s getting its ass handed to it by the competition? What kind of drugs is the writer smoking?

Oh PC mag, that explains it. He’s only saying more consoles should be like Xbox so that he doesn’t have to buy a console lol. Port begging at its finest.

did you notice by change that it appears PCMag doesnt even have articles about PCs anymore...odd that

I noticed that too, I wonder why.