Paying to play online is just a scam.

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percech

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#1 percech
Member since 2011 • 5237 Posts
Xbox Live gets enough abuse here so I'm not gonna argue against it and I'm sick of MS always being the scapegoat to this argument when MMOs have been doing this long before XBL. I'm not sure why people here have a more bigger issue with XBL than MMOs...such as WoW. I remember when World of Warcraft was around $50...yeah 50. The sad part of this is that people think that they own this game, but they don't. They own nothing about it. You pay for the retail copy but you can't even play it until you subscribe to their service. It's worse than drm. It would be fine I guess if it wasn't required to buy the game, and if they didn't release expansion packs. You pay good money to own a hard copy of the game but you don't even own and you can't even play it. How's that fair? Just because there's a lot of content? Well then how come there are lots of good MMOs out there that are actually free to play? I know it's business but I'm trying to figure out why people bring up XBL so much and not even mention the scam that is known as the MMO genre?
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peterw007

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#2 peterw007
Member since 2005 • 3653 Posts

If you have played WoW since it came out you have paid Blizzard:

$50 for Original

$40 for 1st expansion

$40 for 2nd expansion

$40 for 3rd expansion

$15 per month for 83 months

Or $1415 in total.

That's a lot for one video game.

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mems_1224

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#3 mems_1224
Member since 2004 • 56919 Posts
MMOs get a pass because fanboys are dumb.
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dotWithShoes

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#4 dotWithShoes
Member since 2006 • 5596 Posts
People pay for what they want.. People use the money they have to do with as they see fit.
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LegatoSkyheart

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#5 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

All I have done with World of Warcraft was Play the Game for Free. Then Buy the Game so I can trade and stuff ($20) then I got 2 months free, and I don't have a Renewal so once those 2 months are up I won't be able to Level Up I guess.

Already at Level 20.

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Snugenz

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#6 Snugenz
Member since 2006 • 13388 Posts

People pay for what they want.. People use the money they have to do with as they see fit. dotWithShoes

This. People clearly find value in these services and are willing to pay for them, just because you dont see the value, it doesnt mean the person that does is getting scammed/being silly with their money etc.

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finalstar2007

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#7 finalstar2007
Member since 2008 • 27952 Posts

As long as i dont pay for it its all cool to me

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rzepak

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#8 rzepak
Member since 2005 • 5758 Posts
I got WoW with TBC for $20, I got Wrath for $25, I got Cata for $30, Ive bough 10 2 month prepaids for $250. Thats $325 for 1317 hours of gameplay. So thats 25cents per hour of fun. Thats why I dont mind paying for an mmo.
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el3m2tigre

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#9 el3m2tigre
Member since 2007 • 4232 Posts

Yup, i'm not too fond of P2P MMO's either.

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_VenomX

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#11 _VenomX
Member since 2009 • 1614 Posts

The only game I'd be playing P2P if GW2 goes P2P which won't happen 8D

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KC_Hokie

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#12 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
Oh great just what we need...THIS thread again. I swear a thread like this gets created at least every 24 hours on SW.
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Lexter45

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#13 Lexter45
Member since 2011 • 1204 Posts
Oh great just what we need...THIS thread again. I swear a thread like this gets created at least every 24 hours on SW.KC_Hokie
Read the whole thread and not just the title.
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i5750at4Ghz

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#14 i5750at4Ghz
Member since 2010 • 5839 Posts
MMO are most than worth the money to those who enjoy them. People who think they aren't should simply not pay for them. Otherwise STFU.
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KC_Hokie

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#15 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Oh great just what we need...THIS thread again. I swear a thread like this gets created at least every 24 hours on SW.Lexter45
Read the whole thread and not just the title.

The entire topic was created as another anti-XBL rant. Talking about MMOs later on in the thread doesn't change that.
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Lexter45

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#16 Lexter45
Member since 2011 • 1204 Posts
[QUOTE="Lexter45"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Oh great just what we need...THIS thread again. I swear a thread like this gets created at least every 24 hours on SW.KC_Hokie
Read the whole thread and not just the title.

The entire topic was created as another anti-XBL rant. Talking about MMOs later on in the thread doesn't change that.

TC's point was why people badmouthed Xbox Live's Pay 2 Play and not MMO's, nowhere in the OP does he bad mouth Xbox Live P2P, In fact, he's pretty tired of the bashing as well.
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KC_Hokie

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#17 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="Lexter45"] Read the whole thread and not just the title.Lexter45
The entire topic was created as another anti-XBL rant. Talking about MMOs later on in the thread doesn't change that.

TC's point was why people badmouthed Xbox Live's Pay 2 Play and not MMO's, nowhere in the OP does he bad mouth Xbox Live P2P, In fact, he's pretty tired of the bashing as well.

Well I'll add I'm an MMO player and prefer Pay 2 Play MMOs. The quality of MMOs generally goes down when the go F2P.
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percech

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#18 percech
Member since 2011 • 5237 Posts
[QUOTE="Lexter45"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The entire topic was created as another anti-XBL rant. Talking about MMOs later on in the thread doesn't change that.KC_Hokie
TC's point was why people badmouthed Xbox Live's Pay 2 Play and not MMO's, nowhere in the OP does he bad mouth Xbox Live P2P, In fact, he's pretty tired of the bashing as well.

Well I'll add I'm an MMO player and prefer Pay 2 Play MMOs. The quality of MMOs generally goes down when the go F2P.

Even though you know that the game doesn't belong to you unless you keep paying for it? EDIT: It doesn't matter though. I'm not trying to knock on MMO players, I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy.
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KC_Hokie

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#19 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="Lexter45"] TC's point was why people badmouthed Xbox Live's Pay 2 Play and not MMO's, nowhere in the OP does he bad mouth Xbox Live P2P, In fact, he's pretty tired of the bashing as well.percech
Well I'll add I'm an MMO player and prefer Pay 2 Play MMOs. The quality of MMOs generally goes down when the go F2P.

Even though you know that the game doesn't belong to you unless you keep paying for it? EDIT: It doesn't matter though. I'm not trying to knock on MMO players, I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy.

I currently pay for XBL and subscribe to P2P MMOs.
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Snugenz

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#20 Snugenz
Member since 2006 • 13388 Posts

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="Lexter45"] TC's point was why people badmouthed Xbox Live's Pay 2 Play and not MMO's, nowhere in the OP does he bad mouth Xbox Live P2P, In fact, he's pretty tired of the bashing as well.percech
Well I'll add I'm an MMO player and prefer Pay 2 Play MMOs. The quality of MMOs generally goes down when the go F2P.

Even though you know that the game doesn't belong to you unless you keep paying for it? EDIT: It doesn't matter though. I'm not trying to knock on MMO players, I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy.

You still have the license for the software (just like any game), what you pay for is access to servers and updates/services.

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Plagueless

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#21 Plagueless
Member since 2010 • 2569 Posts
Thanks TC. Cows just dont understand why anyone would pay for it. Even hermits can sometimes see why people would pay for live. Heck, in my CS:S days I rented a Ventrillo server which cost more than Xbox live but only did one thing. I pay for Xbox Live because it is easy to use, has a feature that I use every day that isnt available on PSN (party chat, seriously the first thing I do every time I turn my Xbox on) and it allows me to play Halo and Gears of War online. Why this is so hard for cows to get I dont know. You dont HAVE to buy an Xbox or Xbox Live. And If you dont, why bash people who do?
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kuraimen

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#22 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
I don't care for MMO's, I never play them but when you start charging for console gaming in general then I'm not ok since that could become the standard and I have played in consoles all my life and I don't want to start getting ripped off that way.
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LORD_BLACKGULT

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#23 LORD_BLACKGULT
Member since 2006 • 947 Posts

Live would not get all the hate it does if it simply had two modes:

Free-online gameplay, access to the marketplace, ads...

P2P - all the features of Live (those things that proponents of Live like to tout), online gameplay, marketplace, no ads, special offers...

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Lexter45

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#24 Lexter45
Member since 2011 • 1204 Posts
I don't care for MMO's, I never play them but when you start charging for console gaming in general then I'm not ok since that could become the standard and I have played in consoles all my life and I don't want to start getting ripped off that way.kuraimen
Then play on PC when consoles start charging.
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KC_Hokie

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#25 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

Live would not get all the hate it does if it simply had two modes:

Free-online gameplay, access to the marketplace, ads...

P2P - all the features of Live (those things that proponents of Live like to tout), online gameplay, marketplace, no ads, special offers...

LORD_BLACKGULT
They're moving towards something kind of like that. You will be able to play Free to Play games online with a silver account. These games start hitting XBL in the next six months or so.
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Plagueless

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#26 Plagueless
Member since 2010 • 2569 Posts
I don't care for MMO's, I never play them but when you start charging for console gaming in general then I'm not ok since that could become the standard and I have played in consoles all my life and I don't want to start getting ripped off that way.kuraimen
But have you played consoles online all your life? No. If you compared the PS2 and the Xbox no one ever complained about the $50 price tag. To this day PSN is lagging behind live in ease of use, features, and content. Console online can also not be compared very well to PC online, as a dev will drop server support early bit the game will be supported by server renters for years. All those servers that run live and PSN cost lots of $$$, and I honestly belive that PSN willl not be free next gen, or if it is, it will be a stripped down version with no features except online play.
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kuraimen

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#27 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I don't care for MMO's, I never play them but when you start charging for console gaming in general then I'm not ok since that could become the standard and I have played in consoles all my life and I don't want to start getting ripped off that way.Lexter45
Then play on PC when consoles start charging.

Yeah if Sony starts charging I'll stick to Nintendo and if not then PC or I'll just rebuy a SNES, a PS2, a PS1, etc etc. I'll have gaming for quite some time still.
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kuraimen

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#28 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I don't care for MMO's, I never play them but when you start charging for console gaming in general then I'm not ok since that could become the standard and I have played in consoles all my life and I don't want to start getting ripped off that way.Plagueless
But have you played consoles online all your life? No. If you compared the PS2 and the Xbox no one ever complained about the $50 price tag. To this day PSN is lagging behind live in ease of use, features, and content. Console online can also not be compared very well to PC online, as a dev will drop server support early bit the game will be supported by server renters for years. All those servers that run live and PSN cost lots of $$$, and I honestly belive that PSN willl not be free next gen, or if it is, it will be a stripped down version with no features except online play.

I have never paid for online play before and I don't plan to. MS already dropped support for Xbox servers while some very very old PC games still have server support and they even let the community do it. The PS3 has even more games with dedicated servers than the 360. The experience online on the PS3 and 360 is the same for me since I see no use for things like party chat. So I see Live fee as a rip off.
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BPoole96

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#29 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

MMOs are a scam just as XBL is a scam

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juno84

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#30 juno84
Member since 2004 • 1019 Posts

MMOs are a scam just as XBL is a scam

BPoole96
When XBL has dedicated servers, it will stop being such a scam. Requiring a annual fee for matchmaking with extras is pretty silly.
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BPoole96

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#31 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]

MMOs are a scam just as XBL is a scam

juno84

When XBL has dedicated servers, it will stop being such a scam. Requiring a annual fee for matchmaking with extras is pretty silly.

I don't think we will see that until maybe next gen

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Zophar87

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#32 Zophar87
Member since 2008 • 4344 Posts

Well, when it comes down to it, if you enjoy playing that game then chances are you will pay for it. I enjoy WoW, I have fun playing it, and I have played since the game came out. I've taken numerous breaks for months at a time so I have not been paying $15 a month for the past 7 years. If I'm enjoying it and I'm having fun (the point of even playing a game) then what's the harm? It's not your money I'm spending afterall!

In the defense of WoW: The majority of the content pushes in WoW are free. Yes, you pay to play and yes you pay for the major expansions but the majority of the content implemented into WoW is free. Every major patch there's always a content push with more raids, dungeons, and pvp. Where as most games would charge you for such content; WoW offers it to you for free.

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Zophar87

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#33 Zophar87
Member since 2008 • 4344 Posts

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="Lexter45"] TC's point was why people badmouthed Xbox Live's Pay 2 Play and not MMO's, nowhere in the OP does he bad mouth Xbox Live P2P, In fact, he's pretty tired of the bashing as well.percech
Well I'll add I'm an MMO player and prefer Pay 2 Play MMOs. The quality of MMOs generally goes down when the go F2P.

Even though you know that the game doesn't belong to you unless you keep paying for it? EDIT: It doesn't matter though. I'm not trying to knock on MMO players, I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy.

Everyone who plays WoW legally has to agree to it's ELUA. Unless they're stupid and don't read it, then they should openly know what they're getting into. It's not like WoW is trying to hide this from you.

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games5522

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#34 games5522
Member since 2005 • 2909 Posts

Paying for Live = Peer to peer multiplayer, party chat, ads.

Paying for MMOs = Paying whoever made the MMO to keep the servers running AND add more content with no ads.

You've got me on the expansion packs though. I guess it depends on how evil the developer is.

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Kiro0

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#35 Kiro0
Member since 2009 • 1176 Posts

If you have played WoW since it came out you have paid Blizzard:

$50 for Original

$40 for 1st expansion

$40 for 2nd expansion

$40 for 3rd expansion

$15 per month for 83 months

Or $1415 in total.

That's a lot for one video game.

peterw007

I think you just made me depressed. :(

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Santesyu

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#36 Santesyu
Member since 2008 • 4451 Posts

Is paying to play online a scam? Maybe.. And I will leave it at that.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#37 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26655 Posts
Thanks TC. Cows just dont understand why anyone would pay for it. Even hermits can sometimes see why people would pay for live. Heck, in my CS:S days I rented a Ventrillo server which cost more than Xbox live but only did one thing. I pay for Xbox Live because it is easy to use, has a feature that I use every day that isnt available on PSN (party chat, seriously the first thing I do every time I turn my Xbox on) and it allows me to play Halo and Gears of War online. Why this is so hard for cows to get I dont know. You dont HAVE to buy an Xbox or Xbox Live. And If you dont, why bash people who do?Plagueless
Actually no, hermits don't see why people pay for Live. I'm a hermit and I always thought it was a waste of money.
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KungfuKitten

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#38 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"]People pay for what they want.. People use the money they have to do with as they see fit. Snugenz

This. People clearly find value in these services and are willing to pay for them, just because you dont see the value, it doesnt mean the person that does is getting scammed/being silly with their money etc.

Don't know about that. If I look back at how much money I spend on WoW I feel a little nauseous.
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DragonfireXZ95

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#39 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26655 Posts

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"]People pay for what they want.. People use the money they have to do with as they see fit. KungfuKitten

This. People clearly find value in these services and are willing to pay for them, just because you dont see the value, it doesnt mean the person that does is getting scammed/being silly with their money etc.

Don't know about that. If I look back at how much money I spend on WoW I feel a little nauseous.

I'm nauseous, I'm nauseous, I'm nauseous...

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BlbecekBobecek

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#40 BlbecekBobecek
Member since 2006 • 2949 Posts

I personally dont care that much about paying to play. If the console with better games charged me for online, I would probably pay for it. It doesnt hurt at all that the console with better games doesnt charge for online though. :)

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Malta_1980

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#41 Malta_1980
Member since 2008 • 11890 Posts

It sucks cause in the end paying for XBL gives me nothing more cosidering what truly interests me in XBL is playing my games online..

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wraigth

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#42 wraigth
Member since 2007 • 912 Posts
I don't mind P2P MMO's as long as i enjoy the game as they do have to maintain the servers, but when an MMO starts doing P2P and microtransactions that is taking it a lil to far. Then releasing subscription based apps in which you have to pay a seperate sub to your game sub to use it is rediculous.
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GhoX

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#43 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

If you have played WoW since it came out you have paid Blizzard:

$50 for Original

$40 for 1st expansion

$40 for 2nd expansion

$40 for 3rd expansion

$15 per month for 83 months

Or $1415 in total.

That's a lot for one video game.

peterw007
Money that could have been saved sticking to one MMO instead of upgrading computer for other games: $3,000. :P I speak from experience. I admit that I didn't exactly plan my budget for something cheap anyway. If you think about it, paying 1 year's WoW subscription is no more than buying 3 new releases, and chances are 3 games isn't going to last you a whole year save for some rare exceptions.
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blacktorn

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#44 blacktorn
Member since 2004 • 8299 Posts
I played world of warcraft for about 2 or 3 months and i got bored after that,it's not a big problem paying a monthly fee if your enjoying it,i did really enjoy walking around the world in world of warcraft.meeting new people,and grouping on quests,but i also still find online games to be not so fluid,as in lag here or there or dropouts or other problems. But i couldnt play more than the 2-3 months i already invested in it,although that was even before burning crusade was launch,i want to try the new cataclysm client using a free account but the 10+gb download is kinda putting me off.
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DevilMightCry

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#45 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts

It is a business model, that people fell for and it works. Same thing for other unnecessary paid content like $15 maps. Businesses would charge $100 for a game and $50 per month usage, and $50 quarter expansion if they found enough people willing to do it. They just have to create a game that has a formula of "I can't get enough" and you have successfully made a content that is worth something to many that clearly is a rip off to others not willing to buy into it.

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MSPaintman

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#46 MSPaintman
Member since 2011 • 91 Posts
MMO's are worse the XBL, 15 quid for a month vs 3 quid a month. I fully agree that p2p mmo's should be scrapped.
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AzatiS

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#47 AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts
Xbox Live gets enough abuse here so I'm not gonna argue against it and I'm sick of MS always being the scapegoat to this argument when MMOs have been doing this long before XBL. I'm not sure why people here have a more bigger issue with XBL than MMOs...such as WoW. I remember when World of Warcraft was around $50...yeah 50. The sad part of this is that people think that they own this game, but they don't. They own nothing about it. You pay for the retail copy but you can't even play it until you subscribe to their service. It's worse than drm. It would be fine I guess if it wasn't required to buy the game, and if they didn't release expansion packs. You pay good money to own a hard copy of the game but you don't even own and you can't even play it. How's that fair? Just because there's a lot of content? Well then how come there are lots of good MMOs out there that are actually free to play? I know it's business but I'm trying to figure out why people bring up XBL so much and not even mention the scam that is known as the MMO genre? percech
I agree with you in a way. It unbeleivable to pay for a game 50euros and you CANT PLAY it unless you paying constantly 13euros every month. You got a strong point here that i NEVER thought before seriously. I used to be in WoW beta AND hardcore wow gamer. I never thought that. But oh well... Im goin for Diablo 3 + Guild wars 2 combo so i dont mind anymore i guess. As for XBL , it was my second big concern after RROD that made me NOT buy an x360. Pay extra for XBL wasnt my liking.
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ActionRemix

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#48 ActionRemix
Member since 2011 • 5640 Posts
I just hate subscription charges in general. I will never touch MMOs because of their business model. I used to think the advantage of XBL was Microsoft had a central hub of servers developers could use for their games and the subscription cost covered Microsoft's server costs. I couldn't believe people paid for it when I found out it works just like PSN and Steam.
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el3m2tigre

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#49 el3m2tigre
Member since 2007 • 4232 Posts

I just hate subscription charges in general. I will never touch MMOs because of their business model. I used to think the advantage of XBL was Microsoft had a central hub of servers developers could use for their games and the subscription cost covered Microsoft's server costs. I couldn't believe people paid for it when I found out it works just like PSN and Steam.ActionRemix

But, but XBL needs my money to be secured :o

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HarlockJC

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#50 HarlockJC
Member since 2006 • 25546 Posts
I have no problem with people spending money on subscriptions. Running online servers cost quite a bit for companies. They have to make their money somehow. Heck I spend more than $20 a month playing LoL and it's should be a free MMO. I don't mind supporting a game I enjoy.