Ori and Metroid

Late on an Ori topic? Super late, do I give a ****? Not really. So **** o....please leave in a pleasant manner if you're really bothered by a thread about a game that's half a year old or whatever.

Anyway believe it or not Champ actually does like video games, plenty I would argue, and a franchise I'm quite fond of happens to be Metroid, I fucking adore Metroid. Super Metroid and Metroid Prime are easily in my argument for greatest video game of all time (though I still love me some RE4), how much do I care for Metroid? Enough that I'll actually play a pinball game with that ip. FPS soccer? Eh not so much, but then again I dug Rocket League, so maybe?

Anyway which also means I like games that use Metroid's structure be it 2d or 3d. I like Metroid-like games (I'm not using that other word, Igarashi can kiss my Metroid loving ass) such asDark Souls, which is the shit, Shadow Complex? Dig that game. Cave Story and La Mulana? Pretty rad. But I do have my displeasures (naturally) with some of this stuff, it's because I feel that games that borrow Metroid's structure tend to understand it on a superficial level.

They get the large branching world, you go left to right, there is backtracking, there are power ups, but what ruins it for me is the constant thing where we think Metroid, good Metroid games were get this item, open this colored door be it red, green, or blue. At first glance there is a degree of truth there, but those that have gone deeper with Super Metroid, be it through speed run or just because you like sequence breaking, the level design is better than that. Super Metroid is more open than most people realize; there are a good chunk of scenarios in that game where a handful of different items can be used to cross over to the other side, as opposed to needing one specific one. Which is a trap most of the imitations fall into, one item, one solution.

Thus Super Metroid ultimately feels more organic, more like a natural game world, and less a sequence of motions you have to go through. When Metroid gets tedious: Metroid Prime 2 (great game, structurally sloppy) you feel the back tracking because you out right make the connection that now your time is just being wasted. It takes away from the setting, it feels artificial, it feels less organic. Metroid Prime 1 doesn't have issue (well aware some of you hate how it plays mechanically, but even some of you can accept that the level design is nothing short of excellent) because well it borrows heavily from Super Metroid. So a lot of the similar design principles show up, including a string of scenarios where it's not just one item that works well or the game feels artificial. And there are spider ball tracks on a level, it should feel gamey in comparison.

Which is why I think while Guacamelee has fun combat, the Metroid part is pretty lousy. Strider? Why was that even a Metroid-like game in the first place? Ah but then there is Ori and the Blind Forest, a game that doesn't quite capture the same level of sequence breaking but does a better job of using its upgrade path without compromising The Blind Forest as a setting.

Ori being more of a platformer, and less of an action game means that a lot of Ori's upgrades are about elevation, or being able to wall jump at different angles. So it's less opening doors, and more now you can reach a higher spot, you can do certain trick jumps you couldn't earlier, you have this bend ability that requires you to either use enemies or their projectiles as pseudo-platforms. And thanks to brilliant production value (I swear it's the best 2d game I've ever seen), and great audio work The Blind Forest is one of the better setting in a 2d game.

It's got atmosphere, it maintains its immersive feel because rarely do its mechanics feel artificial with its world design, and back tracking never feels like an ordeal it does in a game like say last year's Strider game, where you know you are just going through the motions to go open the purple door. And that stuff adds to a game like this, it's why Dark Souls game world is admired. The way those levels wrap in on themselves to sell a greater whole area is exactly what makes that game grand, and why some people argue Dark Souls 2 level design is more sloppy.

So if and when Nintendo finally makes another 2d Metroid game, this is a lot of the stuff I want. Don't give me the same items as usual, don't assume Metroid is opening the green door, the labyrinth that they create needs to be satisfying to play as, but also needs to stay an atmospheric and immersive setting. That's why Super Metroid is excellent today, 2 decades after releasing, and for that I truly appreciate Ori and the Blind Forest. It's the most I've enjoyed a game of this type since Shadow Complex, hell I probably like it more than Shadow Complex.

And since I have to system wars this up

What's your favorite flavor of ice cream?

What design tropes of Metroid-like games bother you?

What design tropes of Metroid-like games do you enjoy or find admirable?

And again SW material: Microsoft funded Ori, thus they make better Metroid games than Nintendo does at this point, what a travesty. Sony? The from software games they published are more straight forward worlds in comparison, where as the ones published by Namco are more like Metroid, so clearly Sony is bad at it. This is fact.

Oh and if you post the worlds "blog it", know that you are a klondike bar.

Whats Ori game about? Platformer?

Platformer, with the structure of Metroid.

It's fucking rad. Eroica won't play it, because it's not on a vita and because he's too busy playing Assassin's Creed and not hell divers with his buddy Champ, what scum amirite?

Getting it from my buddy at MS once he gets back from his leave. I'm not a shill, tho. ;) I need to play it to make a proper best of 2015 list.

A game I'd like to add would be Shantae and the Pirates Curse. It brought back fond memories of Metroidvania style games I played in the past.

Yes Ori is awesome with a good degree of difficulty. Probably the prettiest game this gen as well.

Ori's magnificent. I don't believe Nintendo's even capable of doing such a game, if only because they seem to have lost much of their passion which was obviously poured into Ori's production.

What design tropes of Metroid-like games bother you?

Hidden walls that are obligatory for moving into the next area, as seen in Metroid Fusion.

Chocolate chip cookie dough. Dangerous, but delicious.

For me, the term Metroidvania to describe a game is nothing short of music to the ears. I find that a lot of criticisms directed towards Ori fall into that it doesn't carve out an identity of its own, and that it's more akin to a student graduating at the top of the class. Even if that were the case, it's hard to argue against it being the peak of its respective genre in the 2D scale.

The game being visually and audibly phenomenal is the worst kept secret. What I really love about Ori is how deceptively challenging it can become which just encourages you to up your performance. Each level is carefully designed and compact enough to ensure the experience never feels like a slog, and the upgrading path ensures a constant sense of momentum. It does all of this without having to sacrifice a damn thing. The only thing I would have loved is if you were given a bit more space to utilize Ori with all abilities learned, but even then Mount Horu certainly puts the player through his/her paces.

Even if it wasn't made in a disappointing generation, Ori would have shined brightly. Not only would I love more games to follow its example, but I'd love developers to develop a project with the same care and effort as Moon Studios put in with Ori.

Ben and I spoke about it on our recent podcast, and we both came to a place (I liked it more than he did), where yeah we had our displeasures with certain mechanical things (orb carrying sequences were lame for instance), but largely we both agreed that honestly, we got the shittiest possible knock for the game, but it clearly had an impact on our overall enjoyment and it's that Ori is exactly what you expect it is going to be, and it's never anything more than that. It never really surprises you.

It's too fucking tight and well designed, and it's a rare independent game that has some quality production value.

Have yet to play Ori, waiting for it on GWG lol

Oh and also....

:P

I think the first Soul Reaver does this style of world progression better than any other 3D game I've played. Even Metroid Prime kind of cheats with all the elevators connecting sections together. Soul Reaver's Nosgoth is one giant, interconnected Labyrinth. Was disappointed when later entries abandoned this layout and went linear.

Soul Reaver is a rad fucking game. Never finished though.

Good points, I'm always on the lookout for the next big hit as far as these 2D titles are concerned(hehe I'll refrain from using that word too), and Ori definitely holds its own with some of the greats like SuperMetroid and Symphony of the Night.

As much as I love Sotn, the game is not perfect. You have the inverted castle which some people argued was a quick way to extend the game's scope, and then you have the easy difficulty which was the thing that bothered me the most. Ori does not have that, and is no slouch in the difficulty department. Same thing for Super Metroid, which pretty much created this type of genre(well that and the first Metroid). So yeah, Ori is tight with an exceptional handrawn art style and that organic feel that just takes over when you start playing. I cannot say if it is better or worse than similar titles in the past, just a fresh new entry that I will surely replay soon.

Ori looks good, maybe I'll get to it in the next year or two after I whittle down my Steam backlog some. Or if I get an X1 and need some games to play on it.

Valdis Story I believe is the best Metroidvania I've played lately, it's more Symphony of the Night than Metroid though. Need to get back to it.

1. Metroidvania Metroidvania Metroidvania

2. Strider is awesome and making it Metroid was great gtfo

Excellent write up. I enjoyed the read especially since Metroid and Metroidvania style games never agreed with me. I purchased the metroid prime trilogy on Wii U and enjoyED the first hour or two of prime before setting it aside when other games stole my attention. In the back of my mind I keep thinking, go back to Prime it's a classic for a reason,but something new and shiny dangles in front of my eyes and steals me away.

I may not enjoy certain genres but I do so love reading about why others enjoy them. Heck I would rather watch a playthrough of Metroid than touch the controller.

So what is it about Metroid that keeps me at arm's length? The backtracking. When I think of a video game I want to move ahead, one level, and then the next. The idea of going backwards doesn't click with me. Go back? You mean to the beginning? Didn't I already beat level 1-1? I'll never reach Bowser by going backwards! rabble rabble rabble! I know, it's stupid, and one day I want to give this genre a fair shake. I may love it. Who knows. I finally sat my ass down, played some Dragon Age, and low behold I'm hooked.

Ori and Rocket League restored my faith in indies.

I'll get around to Ori eventually. Guess I'm just scrubbing it up like Eroica. Too much other shit to play.

Totally agree with your takes on Metroid Prime and Super Metroid though. Wasn't a fan of Prime mechanically when it was on the GameCube, but I fucking adore it with the Wii pointer controls.

Ahhh! Is it available on PC? BTW is it like Bastion or Tomb Raider Arcade games which comes with skill upgrades n such? :)

LOL

Ori lost my attention so quickly and I can't really pinpoint why, it's got a nice look to it, the gameplay was tight, I just really wasn't a fan of the difficulty spikes which is weird because I normally love difficult games.

Blog it. Pistachio favored Ice cream

Now that I remember it, I didnt like the Orb carrying either. I did like the gravity and floor cooling mechanic tied to that area as It was something that subverted my expectations to what the game can do. But I really think that area should have been in an earlier part of the game, when you havent unlocked all the cool movement abilities yet. The game gives you all these abilities, but then you have to carry the orb which halts your movement, as well as your jump arc and it really sticks out. The whole Forlorn Ruins appears at a point where: you have almost every ability unlocked and likely have the obviously superior Utility Tree almost--or fully--completed, but the area doesnt really utilize the mechanics all that well compared to the excellent Ginso tree and Mt. Horu.

But my big OMGWHY part was the stealth section that followed shortly after the orb carrying and right after the weakest escape sequence in the game.

-

I usually see Metroidvania as "WARNING: THIS GAME WILL HAVE BACKTRACKING BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY LIKE THE GAME". Ori is awesome because of how progressive traversal works. Going through one of the areas in the start of the game later just feels so mechanically different (mostly due to the Bash mechanic), which makes all the backtracking actually fun despite the term being somewhat of a negative connotation. Other than that, I'm not too big on collectibles that seem apparent in modern Metroidvanias being made, Ori included. Give me some secret challenges, or secret/optional 'dungeons' - which is something that I think Guacamelee did well.

What I love most about Metroidvanias is that they give you progression as a means to giving the player momentum through gameplay mechanics rather than straight up boring stat boosts or lewtz. Not that Ori's Combat tree isnt guilty of glorified stat boosts, but the Utility Tree and the rate of which you acquired skills like bash and wall jump was really great in evolving gameplay.

ALSO, MICROSOFT PUBLISHED/FUNDED AN AMAZING MULTIPLATFORM PLATFORMER WORTHY OF GOTY THAT COSTS $20, YET NINTENDO HAS THE NERVE TO CHARGE THE LATEST MEDIOCRE KIRBY AND YOSHI FOR $90 HERE, WITH A LOCALIZED RELEASE DATE, BUT MICROSOFT ARE STILL THE GREEDY ONES.

I love Ori but it commits one of the biggest metroidvania sins in that it locks you out of certain areas so you cant go back and 100% the game if you missed something.

Haven´t played Ori but it looked really good from what little I´ve seen. Axiom Verge was pretty dope though.

In another post you said you didn't give it a spin because you've heard it's got a great story but at the same time you've also heard its not so stellar gameplay-wise.

Which one is it?

It's on Steam, It was 40% off during the Steam Sale but now it's back up to full price.

I wouldnt say it's like those games but it has upgrades and stuff.

You gain new skills that are central to the mechanics of the game that you attain as you progress through the story. But then there are 3 ability trees separated under Combat, Utility and Exploration that you can develop. The trees act more as enhancements to existing mechanics.

On a side note, I'm pleased A Boy and His Blob is getting released on the 20th(a reboot I think?), hopefully it's good, I have fond memories of the original one.

edit: turns out it is a re-release of the 2009 version, which I never played anyways, so still looking forward to it.

Ori looks great, looking for a nice sale for X1 version.

Ori was my surprise pick of 2015... I wasn't expecting to enjoy it as much as I did. It is soooooo good!

Played it as recently as November man, crazy concept, I actually go back to play old games, Megaman X for instance, never played that game until just last year, it's fucking awesome. Didn't finish it though, as I'm getting ready for GOTY cast stuff, so I had to power through some stuff like The Witcher 3 (haven't finished, because god damn that game is long), Ori and the Blind Forest, currently working on Soma, Infinifactory and Undertale.

@jg4xchamp: SOMA is dope. Except the parts where you actually have to run around the monsters. I just installed the wuss mod and its the best walking simulator of 2015 now.

Did you like Amnesia? Because I did, I fucking love that game. Ditto the Penumbra stuff.

Something the Definitive Edition is going to rectify.

When does that happen exactly? I didn't 100%, max lazy.

It's pretty simple, but a solid game nonetheless. I love the atmosphere of the game.

Ah, ok, fair enough, so that mention I had in mind must have been from before then.

Super Metroid is where it's at. My type of game in all sectors. Rediculously fluid controls, mad atmosphere, revolutionary level design, cool bosses, best sense of progression in any game, period. Dark Souls has it's moments, Bloodborne too for that matter, but Super Metroid keeps me engaged every second. There's almost no pausing in the gameplay. And there's no way I'd say Souls games have better level design, and the actual movement mechanics don't come close. And I like me some good movement mechanics.

That's why Ori interests me. It looks like it controls really well. On top of it being one of the most beautiful looking games i've seen, lots of charm, amazing music, and of course it's labyrinth level design I love so much from Metroid games. Everything you just said about it makes me want to get it. And I keep forgetting that my laptop could run it. I could buy it now, and I just might. January is a great time for me to binge on 2015 releases anyway.

I only played a few hours of Amnesia and I liked it. Just never bothered finishing it. Those encounters worked a lot better than they do in SOMA.

Up until Anor Londo? Man it's pretty close, the stuff after that is suspect like the Crystal Caves, Dukes Archives, and of course the Demon Ruins, but Firelink Shrine, Undead burg, the depths, sens fortress and all that stuff? I'd say it's pretty stellar.

Probably, I was under the impression it was more Zelda like than Metroid like, I like Beyond Good and Evil and Okami, but I'm not a Zelda guy, I kind of dislike 3d zelda lol, but one of my boys says its more like the stuff I like about Metroid, so I was like aight, plus I think Amy Hennig does good dialogue, so I was curious to see why people swear by Soul Reavers plot n stuff.

Yeah it's a rerelease, remember this kid actic edge gassing it up, and me talking trash that it was an inferior platformer to De Blob, the superior blob.

You are responsible for the death of fun in video games.

What I loved about Soul Reaver the most was its creative usage of spectral realm that could alter the properties of the world. Water became a thin fog through which you could walk, you had puzzles like throwing a javelin from one side to the other and summoning a spectral realm mid-air so that you could jump to it to that place you threw it, and finally return to normal world so that you could pick it up. I loved that. That plus unforgettable story, Metroivdania-like construction (and bosses!) as well as voice acting that had that lofty old-time British noble stylishness to it.

Q2 2016

"We [are] actually adding a lot of new content, such as new areas, which are going to be using new mechanics and actually quite new, exciting artwork, and will have potentially new abilities," said Korol.

"We really went back, added more content, fixed ALL the things people have been asking for (not talking about bugs here, but actual design and content feedback) and we just want to give back and make it the perfect experience for people who loved Ori and those who haven't gotten to try it yet,"

Wonder what this means for the difficulty. Looking forward to a bit more Ori though. Yeah, the game is cool.

Cool. Thanks a lot for the info, 'll try to check this game out :)

Wish I knew. Was supposed to hit last year, now slated only for sometime in the Spring.

So there ARE missables in Ori? Not confident about getting 100% now.

Game is great though. Agree that it handled the metroid stuff well, but I'm most impressed with the controls and mechanics myself. Controlling and jumping about with ori is just so damn fun and satisfying.

I meant when the game doesn't allow you to go back.