Next gen consoles, someone will make a grave error, will it be S0ny or M$ to fall for the CPU powa hype trap?

@04dcarraher:

4-core sounds like half of 8-core.

Some yet unknown P.O.S. 8-core lower power CPU would be a better fit for marketing and easier for remasters/rehashes.

Pretty much and for Tflop numbers they will just use half precision numbers to announce there tflops with on there consoles. And just come up with some nonsense as "our super duper architecture and code leetzor skills will allow us to make complete use of all of that without issue's

They could even just clock up the current xbox one x gpu by 20% and announce it as a 13+tflop gpu and call it a day.

Code to the metal 2.0.

Show some bullshit ingame engine nonsense that never arrives and laugh all the way to the bank.

High number, most clowns will cheer at any nonsense PR word.. That much is proven already for a couple of generations now when it comes to consoles.

Remember 8gb of gddr5

Or Super computer CPU architecture in PS4.

luls

@Gatygun: I'm sorry but games are built on engines which are the determining factors of the CPU utilisation involved, its either a engine that works better with more cores or one that doesn't, IPC in general is better for both situations it doesn't matter if the game is on consoles or not.

The console manufactures went with AMD because of the power draw and no other reason since Intel didn't have chips with more than 4 cores at the time. They won by default.

They had no choice then.

Just like now. They don't have have any mobile 8 core APU's. They are all 4c/8t.

This whole 8core/16thread argument is moot since it doesn't exist, the 8 core APU in the consoles isn't even 8 cores, its 2x 4 core modules on one die because AMD didn't introduce CPU threads in mobile architecture at that time which they have now and the mobile chips peak at 4 cores with 8 threads even the upcoming ones.

It will more than likely be a 4c/8t APU probably a Picasso APU.

You guys don't seem to have much common sense your throwing out assumption based on what you thing yet you don't seem to realise that AMD is currently working on optimisation and power draw, they aren't pushing performance but and cores.

Ryzen 2 is 12nm with the same core count, the follow up to Raven Ridge is Picasso which is Raven Ridge cores with better power draw.

You guys are delusional if you think next gen consoles will have:

• Navi 13+ TFLOPS GPUs
• 6-8 core CPU's

Navi is pushing power draw and 6-8 core mobile chips are not in the works.

What you guys think they will throw in a Ryzen 2 65w 2600 destop CPU with a 150w top tier Navi card by 2019-2020 for $400-500?...

Wake up, learn to research the stuff you talk about.

that 3 ghz 4 core can process more than 16 of the pos cores at 1.6ghz ..... They can still market that quad core with SMT as a "super charged 8 threaded cpu"

Technically that 8 core CPU is two POS 4 cores soldered together.

@04dcarraher:

Hmm...perhaps that would do. Would sound even better if they just put another Jag array in there and call it a "16-core monster-r-r!". Yeah, I'm liking the sound of that. "12TF, 16GB, 16-core Beast!1!1".

In November 2013 the GTX 780 Ti was released, $700dollars, 250watts, 5TFLOps

if someone in November 2013 told you a new console was releasing in 2017 and it would have 20% more TFLoPS than a top of the line 780 Ti You likely would have laughed and used the same argument you are now, yet here we are with Xbox One X

I don’t see why it’s so impossible to imagine a next gen console in 2021 releasing with 20% more TFLOPs than a 1080 Ti. It would it 4.5 years after the 1080 Ti (1080 Ti is 11.8 TFLOPS)

I know they're not going to put a CPU comparable to desktop in the PS5. You don't need a high end CPU to play movie games.

Navi GPU in a console if Q3 2020 or later. Clocked down.

Actually a better comparison would be the R9 290X which has 5.63 TFLOPs. Xbox One X has only 10% more and was released 3 years later.

Relatively speaking, the 1080 Ti is also far more powerful for its time than the 290X was so while it isn't impossible for a next gen console to pack a GPU that would outdo a 1080 Ti three years from now, it's not a certainty and it entirely depends on the advancements made in the next couple of years.

Use AMD vs AMD. Not NVIDIA vs AMD.

Stupidest post of the day

He has a point regarding TDP though. It's unlikely that you can get a Vega chip to draw less than 150 watts (from 300) without being clocked down significantly and compromising performance. Not in a cost-effective way, at least.

Vega 64 is sort of an anomaly tho. Vega 56 is 10.5 TFLOP and 210w.

Vega 64 is only 20% more TFLOPS while using 40% more power

AMD and Nvidia's TFLOP counts are not comparable.

AMD's R9 290X was also released in 2013 and had 5.6TFLOPS and was destroyed by the 5 TFLOP Ti.

Also stop moving the goal post, the rumours are a 2019 release which means a 2018 manufacturing date its why 13TFLOPS is not happening. Just deal with it.

Lets put it this way:

• 2013 a R9 290X was released with 5.6 TFLOPS - In 2013 a X1 was released with 1.31 TFLOPS using a HD 7790.
• 2017 a Vega 64 was released with 13.7 TFLOPS - In 2017 a X1X was released with 6 TFLOPS Using a R9 580.

By your assumption the next console will be a mid tier chip with 13 TFLOPS?... Meaning the high end chip be 23-26TFLOPS?...

Sorry buddy not happening by 2019... Sure by 2021, but that's not when the consoles are coming out.

The RX Vega 56 draws nearly 240w, and 3rd party 56's can draw to near 290w, allowing the 56 perform darn near RX 64 which can draw over 330w

You have to account all factors such as size of the apu manufacturing process node, power, and cooling limitations. You should have used 290x as your example because it was AMD's best gpu of 2013 and its core architecture is the same family as these new consoles ie GCN based.... And guess what 290x was 28nm gpu with a TDP of 290w, while X1X GPU is a 150w package at 14nm and its performance is not far off with a RX 580 which is on average 15-20% faster than 290x when 4gb vram isnt an issue. 290x TFLOPS is 5.6 vs RX 580's 6.1 TFLOPS ie less than 10% difference.

So you suggesting literally a gpu with 20% TFLOPS than a GTX 1080ti is really pushing it since that would be a 13.5 TFLOP gpu First off, you need to compare AMD with AMD.And by going with AMD numbers RX VEGA 64 is a 12.5 TFLOP gpu with 295w TDP which means if these next consoles are going to use AMD using 7nm VEGA or NAVI based gpu their still based on GCN means that for them to fit a 13 TFLOP gpu the gpu will be in the same ballpark of TDP as X1X with performance of 13 TFLOP VEGA.

So unless AMD radically changes GCN's efficiency per watt in general, your not going to see 10+ TFLOP current type of gpu performance in these new consoles by 2019 release, 2020 release maybe 13 TFLOP if the companies want to take the risk. If their out in 2021 seeing a gpu beyond 13 TFLOP range is more likely.

If 2019 is the release so 2018 would be the manufacturing period and the only mid tier GPU's AMD has are the Vega 11 which are meant to replace the RX 480/580 Polaris price segment of the market which would probably fall in the 150w or less category also with maybe core clock adjustments.

Those chips will not out perform a Ti... They will probably land around the Vega 56-64 area of performance but be a lot easier to run.

They have two Vega 11 GPU's listed under XT and Pro probably a 570/580 kind of thing. LINK.

Vega 20 will also be released in the next few years but those will not be power and cost effective for consoles, as for Navi?... Looks like we won't be seeing that till 2020 and even then those will be high end cards that will draw more than 150w.

Vega 11 is the only chip AMD has for the next 2-3 years that is for the mid-tier market, and undoubtedly they will just refresh it like they did with the Polaris with the 480/580 cards with in that period.

We won't be seeing Navi mid-tier cards till 2021 or maybe even later.

So this means "next gen" will be, at most, a 50%-60% performance increase over the XBOX One X. That's a tough sell.

Bottom line, PS5 and the next Xbox both need a good balance of CPU, GPU, RAM and memory bandwidth.

They shouldn't go overboard on the CPU to the point where they have to compromise the GPU.

I figure Sony and MS will use moderately decent clocked variants of Zen 2. Not Zen (14nm) or Zen+ (12nm) but the 7nm Zen 2 that's due out in 2019. (and Zen 3 for PCs is coming in 2020 on 7nm+ and probably won't make it into consoles),

The main thing is, they won't use less than 8 physical Zen 2 CPU cores. Whether it's 8c/16t or 8c/8t is too specific to guess that far off.

GPU wise, at least 12 TFlops and Navi architecture (2020) If Microsoft launches later (say 2021) then 16-18 TFlops and Next Gen GPU architecture on 7nm+

As for RAM, not less than 24 GB of GDDR6, That can provide 864 GB/sec bandwidth with a 384-bit bus, achieved with Samsung's 18 Gbps memory chips that are now in production. That amount of bandwidth is approaching the level of early HBM2, but not as much as the new HBM2 "Aquabolt" standard recently announced, never mind HBM3 which is due in 2019-2020.

https://www.pcper.com/news/Memory/Samsung-Begins-Mass-Production-18-Gbps-16-Gigabit-GDDR6-Memory

They made that choice with when they released a mid-gen console.

Also keep in mind that the gap from the PS4 and PS4 pro is 4-5 years and even then it aside from the GPU everything else was the same, no drastic increase in ram or HDD space or CPU power, even the X1X aside from the GPU and RAM wasn't a big jump.

Moore's law pretty much died, and the mid-gen release destroyed any chance of a console coming out that will wow people like the PS1/PS2/PS3 did.

We already know what GPU's are coming out and the road maps are pretty black and white, its not going to be a exciting launch... Hell even the PS4/X1 was a disappointment with the HD 7790/7850 GPU's they had.

Think about it 4/5 years...

PS4 $399

• 8 core jaguar
• 8GB RAM
• 500TB 5400rpm HDD
• HD 7850/7870

PS4 Pro

• 8 core jaguar
• 8GB RAM
• 1TB 5400rpm HDD
• Polaris chip slower than a RX 470

The new console?... 2 years after the Pro?... Good luck.

Unless they do another $599 console the next generation will be the smallest gap in performance we have ever seen if 2019 is the release date.

It depends on what you use. Most VR games would be using foveated rendering to provide higher performance than that. Whereas Non-VR wouldn't be able to perform at that level, though I still think you'll see higher gains than that percentage.

Can you try making a not shitty thread? kthnx

Exactly that’s why I don’t see 2019 happening.

If PS5 comes out in 2019 with 8 TFLOPS like some people are predicting Here. Microsoft could spin that and say “our last gen console is only 25% less powerful than PS5”

That would be a PR nightmare for Sony

Please explain how in a 5 year gap:

PS4 $399:

• 8 core jaguar
• 8GB RAM
• 500GB HDD
• AMD HD 7850/7870 custom chip 1.8TFLOPS

PS4 Pro $399:

• 8 core jaguar
• 8GB RAM
• 1TB HDD
• AMD Polaris chip weaker than a RX 470 4.2TFLOPS

I am really interest to know how exactly how you think Sony/Microsoft will release a console with in the next 3 years that will offer:

• 8c/16t cpu Zen 2 - Zen 2 is a desktop that will be 65w+, the only mobile AMD has coming after Raven Ridge is Picasso which uses Raven Ridge cores but higher clocks and lower TDP
• 24GB GDDR6 - Not sure how to respond
• GPU 12TFLOPS Navi - Navi has been pushed to 2020 and are top tier cards with high TDP, the only mid tier GPU's coming for the next 1-2 years are Vega 11 which will be 150w area that replace Polaris.

The hardware you are talking about does not align with the power/price the consoles target along with the release dates.

Just look at the release gap from the pro/x1x compared to the PS4/X1 and the specifications involved, what you are asking for is not possible otherwise the X1X and Pro would have been using Ryzen and Vega cards already but couldn't because price/tdp.

Consoles use low TDP cards and mobile CPU's, stop looking at release dates and rubbing your hands when it comes to high TDP and price parts those are not going on the consoles.

Why do you think the PS4 had a 7850 and not a 7950/7970 GPU?... Price and tdp.

You people need to wake up. Get a red bull.

CPU is overrated. Nowadays, it's GPU that matters most. Almost everything related to graphics and physics can be offloaded to the GPU, while the CPU handles things like game logic, AI, and online.

CPU can be a bottleneck at high fps, but consoles don't have to worry about that since they struggle to push 30 fps.

Replace 780 Ti with 290X and everything I said still holds up

When they do offer a performance mode (60FPS)... its usually a disaster.

To some degree the CPU is neutralised at 4K, but if they continue to offer "performance" modes in future games they will need a CPU with a decent IPC.

The AMD Picasso mobile CPU's will fix that issue for them since they use Raven Ridge cores that are on par with modern mobile i7's in terms of single core performance and will operate at 15-30w.

Cores aren't everything, 4c/8t if the IPC is high for the CPU it will destroy a 8core CPU... Its what happened to AMD FX chips when intel released i5/i7's.

Hyper threading is here to stay, and will offer the future consoles the multitasking power they need while keeping costs/power down.

Still won't compete with desktop chips running at double the frequencies but they are not meant to since they run at 2-3 times the TDP at 65-95w compared.

I don't know why you think we're a bunch of idiots. You're insisting that there will be a 2019 console release. No one else is saying this, and nothing else that you've presented even supports this position from any practical standpoint. If anything this scenario should seem even less likely, given what you understand. We might not even see new consoles by the end of 2020.

Sorry for being blunt and coming across as aggressive.

My predictions are based on the release dates of hardware and architectures since consoles require low power parts there are only two time periods they can have 2019 or 2021, If they release after 2018 it will be Vega 11 and 12nm Picasso hardware. If they release after 2020 they it will be Navi mid tier card with a 7nm mobile APU.

The reason 2019 is more likely the case is because Navi mid tier cards are coming after Navi top tier cards which will be 2021 so the consoles wouldn't have the yeilds needed for mass production, remember we are talking about 100,000's of units here and 7nm Zen 2 is the same issue the desktop varients are coming first.

Richard from DF thinks its a 2019 release also and is planning on doing a video based on what he thinks they will have, he's leaning toward the 7nm zen 2 varient for 2019 release but that's highly unlikely since the yields wont be ready by then... He made the same mistake with the Switch predicting it having the Tegra X2.

They could end up with a 7nm Zen 2 APU with a Vega 11 if they do reach the yields needed so I give him that, but Navi is out of the question.

If the "next gen" architecture that succeeds GCN is out by 2020, then the 2021 consoles will use that. That's the only way Microsoft and Sony digging in to the current gen last year makes any sense at all.

@Johnny-n-Roger: Maybe... But according to their own schedule Navi has a 2020 release with production of the mid-tier cards started right after.

2021 release is too far away, since the Pro and X are still considered a part of the current console generation, 2019 with 2020 seems more likely... Also who knows they might release in 2021 but still use 12nm Zen+ and Vega 11 to get the price advantage and get more profit. Its with the PS4, X1, Pro, X1X, Switch and WiiU.

Its highly unlikely and not cost effective.

Then again who knows. I have added my two cents... Forcefully.

@Grey_Eyed_Elf My bet would be 2021. The Xbox One X is rather recent, so is the Pro and I don't see either Sony or Microsoft pushing a new product on the market any time soon. We'll likely get an official announcement in late 2020 and a release date in late 2021. This would give the Xbox One X about 4 years on the market and the original Xbox One 8 years. This sounds reasonable especially given the fact the current gen seems to have some legs and people aren't fully satisfied with it.

Depends on the kind of game. For most single-player games, the CPU isn't much of a bottleneck. But for intensive online multiplayer games, CPU can be a bottleneck.