Most PC games should have non DRM version?

I think its been more recent when most games need steam nowadays. CDR was successful when offering a non steam version. I don't see why other developer can't do the same when they can get the entire cut. A Q&A on this would definitely help with feedback on this matter.

As long as the DRM is non invasive and does not do dumb things like limit the number of times a game can be installed or require online for single player (even though my PC is always online), then it doesn't bother me in the slightest

I was annoyed when my free copy of Witcher 3 was through GOG and not Steam. I personally like to keep all my games together. That said, it didn't keep me from playing the shit out of it.

Steam is perfectly acceptable middle ground imo.. It offers tons of stuff in return including for many games streamlined on the fly modding.. And a awesome friends and family plan in which friends can borrow your games.. They are also one of the first systems to actually create a refund policy.. Steam was one of the first DRM's that actually gave back to the consumer rather than create more restrictions up til this point.. It is why Steam has been so successful to begin with..

Credit card info ought to be connected to some interchangeable aspect of the game during transaction. Someone pays with #xxxx and then an in game symbol is generated somewhere within the game that correlates to each payment.

This. And also GoG and Steam to thrive.

pretty much this...developers that pull this crap should go under

I wish GOG would get more games, **** steam.

Totally man, that'll show us filthy consumers.

@Chozofication:

I can't tell if that is sarcasm. It isn't intrusive and gives proof of ownership, like a license plate for a car.

Even a website like GOG, where registered users can download the installation .exe file with no requirement of rights verification after the file has been downloaded and installed, however even the need to log in to GOG and download the game you have rights to is a form of DRM, there's no such thing really of no DRM. It kind of irks me how people use the term "DRM" as a pejorative against an intrusive DRM system. All systems, even systems with good user friendly DRM, still have DRM; again, mainly the issue is whether it was intrusive or not. Frankly, I don't think what CDPR did was anything special, not in any righteous way for the gamer kind of deal anyways, no more so then them knowing how to manipulate gamers who largely view anything as anti-corporate as a positive regardless of intent and they totally bought into it. The Witcher 2 sucked and everybody treated it like the second coming of Crysis.

Steam is not indicative of whether a game has DRM or not. It's up to the developer to enforce DRM rules on steam.

Steam itself is DRM.

No. It's a marketplace. There is a list of games that you can buy from Steam and then execute on multiple computers with steam not installed.

http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

So if you don't have the game installed and Steam is down or you have no internet connection, how do you acquire your games?

You don't want to go down this path with me, it's DRM.

What you described isn't a DRM situation. It's a you lost your physical copy and now the store is closed situation. DRM (Digital Rights Management) isn't a synonym for incompetency to keep a back up file installed on a HDD. It would become a DRM situation if I wasn't able to play a game without checking into a server to ensure I had a license to play the game.

If you have a digital form of media and have to go through a 3rd party to access it at any point in time they are managing your digital rights and access to said content.

Steam is DRM.

@nyadc: You have to go through a third party to access physical media too.

And?

There are always barriers to accessing media if you consider marketplaces a barrier to media. You're broadening the definition of DRM as a term to describe digital marketplaces.

I guess you never stated a stance on DRM policies, but I'm assuming you're staunchly against not only DRM but digital distribution of any method?

Like I said, you're barking up the wrong tree.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/765611975960281127/

Okay, but I still think you're confused in the definition of DRM.

DRM is useless. I don't know why people still use it. But as long as it's not pain in the as*, I don't mind it much. Some draconian DRMs affect game performance or force you to be always online. Now that's bitchy move.

I'm not confused, you think it's black and white, it has a lot of gray area.

Yes and no. Steam (client) is not a DRM while Steamworks is. You can run some games directly on the folder without the Steam client running in the background. Also, TheSeptopus had already given a list on what games run without the client.

Who are you people? The Steam client is DRM, it started its life as DRM and an automatic patching system, I should know, I've been using it since it was in beta... If you buy a game and then the network goes down, you have no access to your game, you can't download it, you can't get to it, your digital content is being managed by a third party that is completely out of your control.

The very act of purchasing your content through Steam puts the rights to access your software in the hands of Valve, they could terminate your account for absolutely no reason before you are even able to download your game(s) and you couldn't do a thing about about.

Your rights to acquire and access your digital content whether it be indefinitely or a single time, are being managed by a third party with control over said access and rights to access it.

Steam IS DRM.

That could also be applied to GoG Galaxy. The only difference between Galaxy and Steam is that all games you download in GoG could be ran without the Galaxy client while Steam only allows a smaller portion of it because most of it are blocked by Steamworks.

So if you think that Steam client itself is a DRM, then is GoG Galaxy a DRM as well?

If you still posted a yes, then I'll concede and accept that Steam (client) is a DRM. If you posted no because you think Galaxy allows games to run without the client, doesn't Steam also allows a handful of them?

Still, I stand at my point that Steam client is not a DRM while Steamworks which is integrated in most of the games is one.(That is until you accept that GoG Galaxy is a DRM too.)

And I just linked to you a list of games that are not managed by Steamworks CEG or other 3rd party DRM after the initial access (purchase and download). This means that after the initial purchase you no longer need to be able to access the server for license checks, i.e. you are able to access the game even if the network goes down. Yes, it's true that if you no longer have the game installed that you will no longer be able to download the game, but this is true for any digital distribution network and is analogous to losing a physical copy and not being able to buy a new one because the physical store is closed (and if the stores were open, they wouldn't give you a free copy because you lost your original). If you think the mere act of going to a server to download a game is a form of DRM, then it means that all digital distribution, even piracy, is DRM.

And despite ending every post with "Steam is DRM" it's not going to change my stance that Steam in itself is not DRM. Valve offers its DRM software to developers, but its the developers decision to implement it into their game. Because there is a choice in the matter that is left to the developer: Steam is not DRM.

I don't mind DRM for smaller, indie developers who really do need every sale.

DRM is the most pointless shit ever, unless you lock down the hardware it can never work. Pretty much all Steam games get cracked day one with generic steam emulators.

Then you have the shit like always online authentication (the kind that happens continuously) were legit customer end up not being able to play the games due to unstable servers, and it still ends up being cracked, in assassins creed case pirates could play the game with better stability than the legit customers.

Then you have shit like Denuvo which has been used in games that end up being unstable pieces of shit, dunno if it's the DRM or the shitty people who end up using it.

By your logic there is no such thing as a DRM-Free downloadable game. You always have to go through some third party to obtain the game files, they don't just magically appear on your computer when you buy it.

Guys, I can't go to Gamestop, Walmart, Best Buy, or Amazon, w/e to get my PC or Console game...because that is a form of DRM and I don't want DRM.

It's not by 'my' logic, it's by logic itself.

The very foundation of Steam is DRM, it was DRM before DRM was even a coined term.

If you purchase digital content you are still at the mercy of the distributor until said content has been delivered, your digital rights of access are being managed until content delivery is complete.

As long as DRM enhances my game and doesn't hinder it, I'm cool. Unfortunately, I still wold like to reserve my right to play the fucking game if for any reason my internet went out. My router I am renting from Comcast went out last month. It was the power adapter. I was 3 days with no internet and my gaming was severely limited. Even though I could play offline with a lot of my games, none of my scores, achievements/trophies, updates and friend feeds from my systems or PC were all dead. I just played my 3DS the whole time. Ended up buying my own router finally... but it is amazing how limited gaming is without a constant plugin these days.

How is what you're describing any different from Physical Distribution?

And if it's no different, then what exactly are you arguing about? The term DRM itself and your broaden definition of it?