More Details Of Next Gen's Handcuff, "Lockhart" Leak

  • 146 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for goldenelementxl
GoldenElementXL

4322

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 4322 Posts

Source

"The leaked document also mentions a Lockhart profiling mode. Sources familiar with Microsoft’s Xbox plans tell The Verge that this special Lockhart mode is part of the Xbox Series X developer kit. The devkit, codenamed Dante, allows game developers to enable a special Lockhart mode that has a profile of the performance that Microsoft wants to hit with this second console. We understand that includes 7.5GB of usable RAM, a slightly underclocked CPU speed, and around 4 teraflops of GPU performance. The Xbox Series X includes 13.5GB of usable RAM, and targets 12 teraflops of GPU performance."

So not only will first party game development be handcuffed by the Xbox One for the foreseeable future, the Series X will be held back by a console that will be marginally better than the PS4 Pro for its lifetime. Sure the architecture improvements (but still AMD) and a real CPU and SSD will be nice improvements. But really? In 2020 Microsoft is gonna put out a 4TF machine with 7.5GB of usable RAM that will act as the baseline for the next several years... I might be done with Xbox hardware

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

36057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 36057 Posts

Doesn't make sense to me at all. Why not just use X1 with 6 TF as the "Lockhart" console?

I mean it could sell late this year for $199.99. Unless they mean to hit the $99.99 price point. Yikes. lol :P

Avatar image for xantufrog
xantufrog

13041

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 5

#3 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 13041 Posts

To be fair, that 4TFLOPS GPU will probably be more analogous to an X1X. Lends credibility to the rumors that the X1X will basically be replaced/retooled with the new hardware generation as the budget option.

Avatar image for fedor
Fedor

6871

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 6871 Posts

@SecretPolice said:

Doesn't make sense to me at all. Why not just use X1 with 6 TF as the "Lockhart" console?

I mean it could sell late this year for $199.99. Unless they mean to hit the $99.99 price point. Yikes. lol :P

The tablet level CPU would be my guess.

Avatar image for xantufrog
xantufrog

13041

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 5

#5 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 13041 Posts

@SecretPolice: I guess we'll have to see - I don't work in this industry but I suspect it's cheaper to manufacture both next gen models from the same "mold" (literally, in terms of case and controller designs, etc; but also figuratively in terms of using the same current-generation chips and so-on) than to maintain two lines of production

Avatar image for sakaixx
sakaiXx

8060

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 5

#6  Edited By sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8060 Posts

Ooofff... if this is true now dev had to cater to even lower xbox specs.. man xbox, I know ur just a console but stop hindering progress. Terrible.

Avatar image for fedor
Fedor

6871

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 6871 Posts

@sakaixx said:

Ooofff... if this is true now dev had to cater to even lower xbox specs.. man xbox, I know ur just a console but stop hindering progress. Terrible.

It will just be a 1080p/no RT unit. Its not going to hold anything back.

Avatar image for Archangel3371
Archangel3371

30698

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#8 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 30698 Posts

I really don’t see what the big deal is myself. They do this kind of stuff on PC all the time. 🤷‍♂️

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#9 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@SecretPolice said:

Doesn't make sense to me at all. Why not just use X1 with 6 TF as the "Lockhart" console?

I mean it could sell late this year for $199.99. Unless they mean to hit the $99.99 price point. Yikes. lol :P

The CPU is the problem. Lockhart CPU is significantly stronger than X1, the GPU is better despite being only 4TFLOPS and it has an SSD.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

36057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 36057 Posts

@Pedro: @xantufrog: @fedor:

Thanks all, makes it bit more sense to me and I suppose the whole TF thing can be a bit deceiving at times.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
Zero_epyon

14400

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#11 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 14400 Posts

This is how the plan on undercutting Sony? Good luck I guess.

Avatar image for osan0
osan0

15818

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 osan0
Member since 2004 • 15818 Posts

I wonder if this is a way to also offset the cost of the SOC (or to basically get more out of a wafer) too. the XSX has a big SOC and still has 4CUs disabled. i wonder if lockheart is just lower binned silicon with more disabled or have MS specifically designed 2 different SOCs. 7nm is pricey at the moment. so this way they are dumping less silicon.

If the price is right it could be very tempting for a lot of people who just want something to play easier to run games...and GTA5 online :P.

I wonder if MS will also stop X1 production very quickly after the XSX and XSS (just speculating there) release.

will they do an even cheaper XSS all digital also?

Avatar image for hardwenzen
hardwenzen

1713

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 1713 Posts

Weak pc's like what ghost has didn't handcuff devs from making CP2077.

Avatar image for goldenelementxl
GoldenElementXL

4322

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 4322 Posts

@hardwenzen: Well to be fair, nothing runs Cyberpunk 2077 well above 1080p with raytracing right now as far as we know. And we sure haven’t seen the games performance and fidelity on consoles yet. So maybe that game shouldn’t be used as an example just yet

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#15 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@osan0 said:

I wonder if MS will also stop X1 production very quickly after the XSX and XSS (just speculating there) release.

I would not be surprised if they already stop production.

Avatar image for bluestars
Bluestars

1039

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#16 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1039 Posts

Lockhart 1080-60 ultra aimed at the HD tv crowd.....I don’t see anything holding the x back....when devs use its potential properly you get RDR2-metro exodus,FH4 and co getting high praise from DF

Avatar image for osan0
osan0

15818

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17 osan0
Member since 2004 • 15818 Posts

@Pedro: maybe though we would usually get a news article on that. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they stop production very quickly though.

in that context lockheart does make a lot of sense on the surface (though we do need more info on pricing). keeps any barriers to entry for the xbox ecosystem at a minimum and keeps production easier for MS too (no need to source any more X1 parts).

Avatar image for FinalFighters
FinalFighters

3366

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 FinalFighters
Member since 2013 • 3366 Posts

I dont care, as long as dev's make their games for the Series X in mind, because that's what i'll be buying.

im sure the majority of people will buy the lockhart though because of its cheaper price.

Avatar image for phbz
phbz

5824

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 54

User Lists: 0

#19 phbz
Member since 2009 • 5824 Posts

Omg SXS games will look like cga graphics. Pre-order cancelled!

Avatar image for R10nu
R10nu

1588

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20 R10nu
Member since 2006 • 1588 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

Well to be fair, nothing runs Cyberpunk 2077 well above 1080p with raytracing right now as far as we know. And we sure haven’t seen the games performance and fidelity on consoles yet. So maybe that game shouldn’t be used as an example just yet

To be fair, nothing runs Quake 2 RTX well either.

Avatar image for shellcase86
shellcase86

4845

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 4845 Posts

@Zero_epyon said:

This is how the plan on undercutting Sony? Good luck I guess.

That's my guess. I still don't believe these rumors, because it almost doesn't make sense.

But pricing something lower could give Microsoft some much needed advantage.

Also, another interpretation of Warren's comment could mean that this rumored sku won't be that cheap, maybe only undercutting Sony by a smaller factor than some expect.

Avatar image for wervenom
WeRVenom

479

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 10

#22 WeRVenom
Member since 2020 • 479 Posts

Lol next gen handcuff. I lol'd.

Anyone expecting extra visual effects on the XSX over the PS5 can throw that out the window now. It's advantages will be strictly resolution or framerates.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
Zero_epyon

14400

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#23 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 14400 Posts

@shellcase86 said:
@Zero_epyon said:

This is how the plan on undercutting Sony? Good luck I guess.

That's my guess. I still don't believe these rumors, because it almost doesn't make sense.

But pricing something lower could give Microsoft some much needed advantage.

Also, another interpretation of Warren's comment could mean that this rumored sku won't be that cheap, maybe only undercutting Sony by a smaller factor than some expect.

Yeah if the rumors are true then I expect this to be between $299 and $399.

Avatar image for briguyb13
briguyb13

4057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#24 briguyb13
Member since 2007 • 4057 Posts

I don't see how it would "hold back" game development. Microsoft said for the first two years they'd make games that would work with multiple generation systems, but after that there will be games specifically for Series X.

With the power of these systems the sky is the limit for devs, especially later on in to next gen.

Avatar image for xantufrog
xantufrog

13041

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 5

#25  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 13041 Posts

@briguyb13: Do you think they are going to release a new X1X-alike (Lockhart) and stop making games for it after two years? No way - because it (apparently) exists, I think MS will at least maintain FC for the og X1X and the Lockhart for most of the generation; I could see the base X1 getting dropped though - it's just such painfully date hardware. It's like DF was saying in their CP2077 video - you can scale assets back to run on these old systems thanks to the standardized architecture, but at some point you risk losing the identity and performance standards of the game. They'll have to move on eventually.

Avatar image for mclarenmaster18
mclarenmaster18

3055

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 29

User Lists: 5

#26 mclarenmaster18
Member since 2014 • 3055 Posts

It's still more powerful than Wii U and Switch combined lol.

Avatar image for Chutebox
Chutebox

45819

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 45819 Posts

@Pedro: so... redesign the x1x with the lockheart CPU? Not sure if possible but if so, why the hell not!?

Avatar image for briguyb13
briguyb13

4057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#28 briguyb13
Member since 2007 • 4057 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@briguyb13: Do you think they are going to release a new X1X-alike (Lockhart) and stop making games for it after two years? No way - because it (apparently) exists, I think MS will at least maintain FC for the og X1X and the Lockhart for most of the generation; I could see the base X1 getting dropped though - it's just such painfully date hardware. It's like DF was saying in their CP2077 video - you can scale assets back to run on these old systems thanks to the standardized architecture, but at some point you risk losing the identity and performance standards of the game. They'll have to move on eventually.

But just because XSS exists, does that mean devs can't target XSX instead? And don't they have different standards, like Xbox One vs Xbox One X? Didn't developers make dedicated games for the higher end machines this gen?

I mean, I'm not a programmer or developer, just a game enthusiast, so I don't understand the ins and out of all that mess.

Avatar image for lamprey263
lamprey263

36914

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#29 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 36914 Posts

It would be a mistake IMO to sell such a thing other than a streaming service box that can play XB1 games locally. Requiring devs to optimize for multiple Xbox types will be too burdensome. If rumors regarding a $400 Series X are true I think they should scrap the Lockhart. Or like others said, make it at least an XB1X.

And if streaming box is what they want, I think they should just update current XB1 consoles to use the feature.

Avatar image for BenjaminBanklin
BenjaminBanklin

5967

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5967 Posts

What IS this model? Is it stronger or weaker than the X? Xbox first party is trying to juggle and support too many consoles at once. They're segmenting their market way too much.

Avatar image for briguyb13
briguyb13

4057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#31 briguyb13
Member since 2007 • 4057 Posts

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see how XSS will hold back next gen. All the games will have assets for the more powerful XSX.

Avatar image for subspecies
Subspecies

2396

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#32 Subspecies
Member since 2018 • 2396 Posts

It just seems like MS is intent on shooting themselves in the foot. They build this big, powerful console, and can't even use it to its full potential because of intentionally holding themselves back. Ridiculous.

Avatar image for xantufrog
xantufrog

13041

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 5

#33 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 13041 Posts

@briguyb13: I think I just misunderstood your initial comment. My point is I don't see them launching a new "entry level console" that will cease to get MS first party after a couple of years. If that's not what you were implying my bad - no doubt they will make sure every one of their first party games has at least several features that take advantage of the extra power of the XSX, even though the game has an XSS or whatever version too

Avatar image for techhog89
Techhog89

3901

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34 Techhog89
Member since 2015 • 3901 Posts

ITT People who don't understand how development and scaling work.

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#35 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@subspecies said:

It just seems like MS is intent on shooting themselves in the foot. They build this big, powerful console, and can't even use it to its full potential because of intentionally holding themselves back. Ridiculous.

I think your got your consoles confused. 😎\

Also its not going to hold anything back.

Avatar image for subspecies
Subspecies

2396

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#36 Subspecies
Member since 2018 • 2396 Posts

@Pedro: Lol, true. The PS5 is a skyscraper.

As for XSX, dude, come on. It's obvious the console will be held back because of MS's policies.

Avatar image for BassMan
BassMan

12010

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 141

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 12010 Posts

The GPU should be the only difference between the two. Low-end console targets 1080p and high end targets 4K. That way games can easily scale and the scope of the games are unaffected. As soon as you start having different CPU and RAM specs, you end up fucking the developers and ultimately the gamers.

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#38 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@subspecies said:

@Pedro: Lol, true. The PS5 is a skyscraper.

As for XSX, dude, come on. It's obvious the console will be held back because of MS's policies.

No! Its not being held back. Is gaming being held back because the PS5 is weaker than the Series X and PC? Is the use of SSDs being held back because the Series X SSD is slower?

Avatar image for Sagemode87
Sagemode87

1549

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 1549 Posts

@Pedro: Um PC is potentially stronger than BOTH PS5 and series X. Nice try there. PS5 and Series X is in the same ballpark. Series S is only 4tf but you're whining about PS5 lmao. What clowntalk.

Avatar image for subspecies
Subspecies

2396

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#40 Subspecies
Member since 2018 • 2396 Posts

@Pedro: No to the PS5 questions.

Yes the XSX will be held back by MS's policies. You'll just have to live with it, dude.

Avatar image for i_own_u_4ever
I_own_u_4ever

313

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#41  Edited By I_own_u_4ever
Member since 2020 • 313 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

Source

"The leaked document also mentions a Lockhart profiling mode. Sources familiar with Microsoft’s Xbox plans tell The Verge that this special Lockhart mode is part of the Xbox Series X developer kit. The devkit, codenamed Dante, allows game developers to enable a special Lockhart mode that has a profile of the performance that Microsoft wants to hit with this second console. We understand that includes 7.5GB of usable RAM, a slightly underclocked CPU speed, and around 4 teraflops of GPU performance. The Xbox Series X includes 13.5GB of usable RAM, and targets 12 teraflops of GPU performance."

So not only will first party game development be handcuffed by the Xbox One for the foreseeable future, the Series X will be held back by a console that will be marginally better than the PS4 Pro for its lifetime. Sure the architecture improvements (but still AMD) and a real CPU and SSD will be nice improvements. But really? In 2020 Microsoft is gonna put out a 4TF machine with 7.5GB of usable RAM that will act as the baseline for the next several years... I might be done with Xbox hardware

A lot of WRONG here first of all it won't be handcuffed. 3rd party game developers can do as they please and only put games on the XSS and the XSX it's only MS first party that will still ship on both Xbox One systems and the XSS and XSX for the first year. Also the XSS aka Lockhart will have the same CPU that's in the XSX so this means all games can have the same performance and 60-120fps just the Lockhart will have lower resolutions like 1080p-1440p and you also fail to remember that this is RDNA 2 so tflops mean over twice as fast as current PS4 Pro and X1X.

Avatar image for sakaixx
sakaiXx

8060

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 5

#42  Edited By sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8060 Posts

@fedor said:
@sakaixx said:

Ooofff... if this is true now dev had to cater to even lower xbox specs.. man xbox, I know ur just a console but stop hindering progress. Terrible.

It will just be a 1080p/no RT unit. Its not going to hold anything back.

I still remember ubisoft 30fps "parity" bullshit and that its actually console makers that pressuring them. Its a good read.

Avatar image for Nonstop-Madness
Nonstop-Madness

10259

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#43 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 10259 Posts

I just don't see the appeal of launching it alongside the Series X while also commiting to supporting the Xbox One.

If cost is your main issue, you'd be better off going with the Xbox One until there's absolutely no more support.

And trust me, we'll have cross gen games for much longer this time around. Large publishers will not accept dropping 10s of millions of customers anymore. Also, F2P, games will carry those last gen consoles for a while.

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#44 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@subspecies said:

@Pedro: No to the PS5 questions.

Yes the XSX will be held back by MS's policies. You'll just have to live with it, dude.

I think you should avoid talking about tech. Its not your thing. 😎

Avatar image for subspecies
Subspecies

2396

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#45 Subspecies
Member since 2018 • 2396 Posts

@Pedro said:
@subspecies said:

@Pedro: No to the PS5 questions.

Yes the XSX will be held back by MS's policies. You'll just have to live with it, dude.

I think you should avoid talking about tech. Its not your thing. 😎

Well, perhaps you should avoid it, actually. The fact that the XSX will be held back by MS's policies is eating you alive, lol.

Avatar image for Ant_17
Ant_17

12984

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#46 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 12984 Posts

Is it confirmed it's a console? Maybe it's a handheld? Like a switch.

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#47 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@subspecies said:

Well, perhaps you should avoid it, actually. The fact that the XSX will be held back by MS's policies is eating you alive, lol.

Don't confuse your ignorance as mine and also it is not a fact. Seems you Sony fannies are struggling with facts as of late. 😎

Avatar image for subspecies
Subspecies

2396

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#48 Subspecies
Member since 2018 • 2396 Posts

@Pedro: Aaaaaand he's getting pissed. Like clockwork.

Don't worry, dude. You'll find a way to deal with the XSX being held back by MS's policies. Maybe then you'll stop feeling the urge to reply when you're obviously being trolled.

(hint, hint)

Avatar image for Pedro
Pedro

40097

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 66

User Lists: 0

#49 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40097 Posts

@subspecies said:

@Pedro: Aaaaaand he's getting pissed. Like clockwork.

Don't worry, dude. You'll find a way to deal with the XSX being held back by MS's policies. Maybe then you'll stop feeling the urge to reply when you're obviously being trolled.

(hint, hint)

Isn't that cute. She thinks I am pissed. I didn't expect you to fall victim being threatened by the Series X. 😎

Avatar image for Ibacai
Ibacai

13901

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#50 Ibacai
Member since 2006 • 13901 Posts

Technically, if MS has to spend any extra resources (time, money, employees, etc.) on creating different assets for the Lockhart over XsX, it is a handcuff. However! Most don’t know how the software and hardware work here, minus a few people, and saying that handicap is even noticeable requires proof. Which no Sony fanboy has shown here.

Not to mention the fact that if the profits go up due to Lockhart you could argue it pays for the asset creations. This in turn could bleed back into all development. And what does that mean? It means that Lockhart actually pushes the XsX, instead of holding it back.

And let’s take note that if according to Sony fanboys Lockhart will hold XsX back, what do you think the PS5 will do?

But I wouldn’t know anything about software development or business, so ignore me.