Matt Booty says no next gen 1st party Xbox exclusives for the first couple of years

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Fedor

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#501  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

@fedor: you're the one that doubled down on the idea that Halo Reach's success was because PUBG players were sleeping..

And I gave valid points of why that may be... You on the other hand have gave 0 valid points to back yourself up, instead you have only shown ignorance. Also you clearly didn't understand what I said, but thats par for the course with you it seems.

I think that says all there is about how you're willing to bend over backwards trying to downplay anything positive for Halo Reach in this conversation..

As I've already said, you strawmanning only makes you look petty. I actually bought MCC on steam, I hope the concurrent player numbers go up when the other titles get released. It's not my fault you're up here writing half truths and acting the fool.

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GoldenElementXL

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#502 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3767 Posts

@Antwan3K: You know what’s impressive? There are more people playing Boons TD 6 on Steam right now than Halo Reach. Maybe Microsoft should go get that game

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Antwan3K

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#503  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: so are you saying Halo Reach had an impressive debut on PC?..

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Antwan3K

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#504 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@goldenelementxl: would more people be playing Halo Reach if it didn't debut on PC?..

If your answer is no, what are we arguing about?..

If your answer is yes, something is wrong with how you do math..

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Fedor

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#505 Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K: Sure, it debuted well. Not sure it was impressive, more of a given. I don't remember saying it didn't debut well. It didn't break records or set the PC world ablaze like your article headline tried to push though.

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Antwan3K

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#506 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: well, we agree, Halo Reach debuted well..

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Fedor

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#507 Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K: Sure, I guess. Issue is that's not the only thing you were saying. Hence this long thread of you saying things that were incorrect.

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Antwan3K

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#508  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: In my initial response, I posted an article disputing the idea that PC gamers have no interest in Halo..

In my first response to you I admitted there were no concrete record broken (that I noticed in the article) along with posting a full quote from the source link..

Edit: I do admit quoting the article title though in a response, I can readily apologize for that mistake..

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Fedor

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#509 Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K: Yep. You also said gamepass is a dollar, its not. That is the 1 month trial fee. You said it topped the concurrent list, it didn't. You strawmanned the things I was saying, bad faith arguments. You showed you don't understand how the top selling charts work on steam. Even at one point alluding to gamepass revenue being included in the steam charts. Really just showed a general misunderstanding of the issues you were trying to debate. But other than all that, you've been great.

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Antwan3K

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#510  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: Game Pass was $1 at the time of that article.. It came in 3rd in concurrent players out of hundreds of games.. If that isn't "topping the charts", fine.. Impressive regardless.. If the charts are based in revenue instead of sales, then it's even more impressive since the game was selling at $10 versus $30~$60 games.. My Game Pass comment was meant to show that this was all sales, not subs for revenue.. Game Pass is included in the concurrent players count though which is what the chart is about.. Implying that the overall success of Halo Reach in PC is because PUBG players were sleeping is the definition of a bad faith argument.. I answered your question about whether or not is saw any records broken, yet you made that dumb PUBG comment and tried to make it out that revenue charts implied a less impressive performance when, in fact, it's more impressive if the charts are based on revenue.. But other than that, you've been great..

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Fedor

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#511  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K: I've already owned you, it's not my fault you can't handle that.

PS: once again, pubg's playerbase is largely dominated by China... They sleep at different times than Americans... Did you know that? Now you do. Pubg peaks when China is awake. These are facts, they don't care about your feelings.

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GoldenElementXL

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#512 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3767 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

@goldenelementxl: would more people be playing Halo Reach if it didn't debut on PC?..

If your answer is no, what are we arguing about?..

If your answer is yes, something is wrong with how you do math..

Where is this coming from? Nobody is arguing this. Are you lost?

Oh look, Reach is charting on Steam!!!

#99! Reach is still topping the charts!!1!1

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Antwan3K

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#513 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: thanks for agreeing that Halo Reach debuted well on PC.. That was my point and you agree.. Cool..

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Antwan3K

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#514 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@goldenelementxl: it seems we both agree that having a larger and expanded install base for your 1st party content is a good thing.. Not really sure what else there is to discuss..

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Fedor

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#515 Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K: You're terrible at this. Go eat a snickers and take a nap. You need it.

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jeezers

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#516 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

Does the steam charts include people who did not buy on steam? Are people who either bought on windows store or playing through windows game pass beta included in the steam charts?

Genuinely asking because i play alot, but haven't bought it on steam, since i don't even touch steam when playing the game i would assume i'm not counted on the steam charts correct? or does steam calculate people who arent playing through steam but on gamepass and windows store as well?

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Antwan3K

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#517 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: thanks for playing..

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GoldenElementXL

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#518  Edited By GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3767 Posts
@Antwan3K said:

@fedor: Game Pass was $1 at the time of that article.. It came in 3rd in concurrent players out of hundreds of games.. If that isn't "topping the charts", fine.. Impressive regardless.. If the charts are based in revenue instead of sales, then it's even more impressive since the game was selling at $10 versus $30~$60 games..

- Read your article. PUBG and Monster Hunter were both on deep discounts. PUBG was $14.99 during the Steam Sale and Monster Hunter was $19.99. The author tried to spin that as "Reach is outselling these games even though they're on sale." That's not how the chart works

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Fedor

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#519 Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@Antwan3K: Thanks for being a gracious loser.

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GoldenElementXL

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#520 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3767 Posts
@Antwan3K said:

Game Pass is included in the concurrent players count though which is what the chart is about..

That's incorrect

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Fedor

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#521  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@jeezers: It will include steam sales and sales from approved storefronts like GMG. Places like G2A are not. It doesn't factor in GP at all.

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Antwan3K

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#522  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@goldenelementxl: *sigh*.. are Microsoft 1st party titles reaching the largest combined install base possible with 1st party heading into the next-gen?.. Yep..

Ultimately, this has been my entire argument in the thread.. You seem to agree.. Cool..

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GoldenElementXL

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#523 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3767 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

@goldenelementxl: it seems we both agree that having a larger and expanded install base for your 1st party content is a good thing.. Not really sure what else there is to discuss..

For the 23129308573rd time, nobody is arguing that. My point yesterday was that people don't care about Microsofts 1st party titles and a strategy of solely expanding access to their library isn't going to save the brand. Today is even more evidence of that. If people wanted to play their games, they would have bought a console...

You let a clickbait article get you all excited and embarrassed yourself. Don't try to act like you've won a debate or something.

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#524 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@fedor: as long as you agree that Halo Reach debuted well on PC, cool.. If it somehow makes you feel better to talk about "owning", "snickers", "naps", "losers", and other childish things, knock yourself out bud.. 👍🏼

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jeezers

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#525 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@fedor: if thats so, steam charts dont seem like a great way to evaluate how active the game is on PC. Id be willing to bet there are 3-4 times the amount of people logging into gamepass to play reach than people buying it on steam.

Does the microsoft store count as an approved storefront thats calculated in steam charts?

With other storefronts popping up, steam charts dont seem to be quite as important anymore in calculating a games player base.

I think I read that over 3 million gamers played reach on both PC and Xbox combined at launch.

Id like to know numbers logged in from gamepass.

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Fedor

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#526 Fedor  Online
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@Antwan3K said:

@fedor: as long as you agree that Halo Reach debuted well on PC, cool.. If it somehow makes you feel better to talk about "owning", "snickers", "naps", "losers", and other childish things, knock yourself out bud.. 👍🏼

Why are you still talking to me?

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Fedor

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#527  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts
@jeezers said:

@fedor: if thats so, steam charts dont seem like a great way to evaluate how active the game is on PC. Id be willing to bet there are 3-4 times the amount of people logging into gamepass to play reach than people buying it on steam.

I would highly doubt that.

Does the microsoft store count as an approved storefront thats calculated in steam charts?

Nope, it wouldn't be a purchase of a steam key.

With other storefronts popping up, steam charts dont seem to be quite as important anymore in calculating a games player base.

Steams concurrent player chart is in fact the best place for that information.

I think I read that over 3 million gamers played reach on both PC and Xbox combined at launch.

I'd need to see a link for this, doesnt sound real though.

Id like to know numbers logged in from gamepass.

Have to ask MS for that.

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Antwan3K

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#528  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@goldenelementxl: Ok, I'll bite..

So you don't ever forsee a future or situation where Microsoft 1st party has corrected course and are putting out a respectible amount of desirable content?..

If that's your opinion, fine.. You're certainly entitled to believe that and you may be correct.. But if that's the case, nothing (and I mean NOTHING) Microsoft does will ever result in a successful venture next-gen..

None of this crap you're saying matters if you truly believe that.. If they release crap 1st party games exclusively for Xbox Series X, who cares?.. None of this matters..

But let's just pretend that Microsoft 1st party starts firing on all cylinders (I know right, humor me).. PS5 already has a 2:1 advantage or much more heading into next-gen in terms current-gen gamers potentially willing to buy their next console.. And most would assume that their 1st party will always be firing on all cylinders..

So here's the best case scenario for a head-to-head competition where both companies are putting out quality 1st party content that's only available on next-gen consoles.. Even PC is excluded:

Everyone who owns a PS4 will buy a PS5..

and

Everyone who owns an Xbox One will buy an Xbox Series X..

Period..

This means, BEST CASE, using the traditional hardware sales race you're endorsing, PS5 will still beat Xbox Series X by 2:1 or more.. Meaning a smaller install base for Microsoft to move software, regardless of how good that software is..

Now, let's look at their current strategy through the lens of Xbox Game Studios putting out "bangers" just like Sony's 1st party.. Having a combined install base across current-gen, next-gen, PC, and cloud with one single purchase/subscription means a metric TON of software penetration.. And this is REGARDLESS of how well the PS4 is doing.. The success of "Xbox" is no longer directly tied to how good or bad the Playstation is doing at selling consoles.. They can reach people who haven't upgraded yet, they can reach PC gamers who have no intent on ever buying a console, and depending on how streaming is implemented there's XCloud..

Current Xbox One owners will download the content.. Xbox Series X owners will download the content.. PC gamers will download the content.. The content will be streamed to other supported devices.. And the combined install base EXPONENTIALLY dwarfs whatever the Xbox Series X could have done on its own..

^^ this is clearly the better strategy in my opinion.. If you disagree, fine.. I still don't think it's worth this much of a back and forth..

I have said multiple times that their 1st party has to deliver.. So we agree there.. We both agree that a combined install base is larger than a singular install base.. So there's another agreement.. We even both agree that Microsoft simply can't win a head-to-head traditional console war with the PS5 after the utter domination of the PS4..

We agree, we agree, and we agree..

So let me try and put this ongoing discussion to a close and/or at least refocus it: if we both agree on all these things, what the hell are we arguing about??..

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Random_Matt

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#529 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4611 Posts

Jeez, 129 new replies, swear I only looked yesterday. Thought I went OTT, you guys have lost it.

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jeezers

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#530  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@fedor said:
@jeezers said:

@fedor: if thats so, steam charts dont seem like a great way to evaluate how active the game is on PC. Id be willing to bet there are 3-4 times the amount of people logging into gamepass to play reach than people buying it on steam.

I would highly doubt that.

Does the microsoft store count as an approved storefront thats calculated in steam charts?

Nope, it wouldn't be a purchase of a steam key.

With other storefronts popping up, steam charts dont seem to be quite as important anymore in calculating a games player base.

Steams concurrent player chart is in fact the best place for that information.

I think I read that over 3 million gamers played reach on both PC and Xbox combined at launch.

I'd need to see a link for this, doesnt sound real though.

Id like to know numbers logged in from gamepass.

Have to ask MS for that.

https://www.kotaku.co.uk/2019/12/12/halo-reachs-master-chief-collection-debut-had-nearly-3-million-players-in-its-first-week

https://www.onmsft.com/news/3-million-gamers-played-halo-reach-on-pc-and-xbox-one-during-launch-week

https://www.pcgamesn.com/halo-the-master-chief-collection/halo-reach-sales-pc

https://www.windowscentral.com/halo-master-chief-collection-3-million-players

Microsoft is saying 3 million played over launch week, this is including xbox numbers though but id have to believe a large chunk is on PC across all storefronts and gamepass.

I just dont see the steam charts being anything besides how many are playing the game on steam... As more and more places become available to purchase games, services like gamepass... steam charts wont mean much.

Steam chart is only a good way to evaluate a games player base if that's the only place to buy or play it from.

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Fedor

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#531  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@jeezers: Sure, well they're saying "nearly" and don't give any concrete numbers or a breakdown of the platforms. One thing we do know is the player base has dropped off significantly.

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jeezers

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#532  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@fedor: on steam maybe.. But over 160,000 players on just steam in the first 24 is just a piece of the bigger picture, thats impressive, this is a 10 year old game.

how many will buy this 10 dollar game in a month? 6 months?

once the other games in the collection start comming out more and more people will be buying MCC on PC.

I'll be buying it on steam once halo 1 2 3 are moved over to PC.

Untill then I'm going to enjoy it on gamepass, I know im not the only one doing this

They still havent released forge for reach on PC, thats also going to bring alot more traffic when that drops. Everyone loves player made content/maps/game modes.

Microsoft is going to make bank on halo comming to PC

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Fedor

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#533  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@jeezers: It was actually more than that, 160k was the concurrent high, meaning playing at once. Just because the game is old doesn't mean it wasn't highly anticipated. I've already stated that the game doing well was expected.

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jeezers

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#534 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@fedor: For what it is, a 10 year old game, without forge, and while none of the other games in the collection are out yet. That's incredible.

Would not be surprised if more than double the amount of people are playing it through gamepass, if you already have gamepass there is no reason to buy it on steam. Throw in the people who buy it straight from microsoft. Steam chart is not an essential measuring tool, that's all im saying

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Fedor

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#535  Edited By Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 5812 Posts

@jeezers: It's the only tool we have. MS won't give concrete numbers. It's a fact that the playerbase has fallen off. Of course it will get a bump when the other titles release. Being 10 years old doesn't mean much when you're talking about Halo, a franchise that PC gamers have been pining for for well over a decade. I'm not going to speculate on GP numbers since MS won't release them.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#536 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5443 Posts

@mclarenmaster18 said:

Hmmm..... This is an anti-Xbox thread created by a Cow/Sony Drone.

I'm not trusting you, BenjaminBanklin.

You're not trusting me that MS said they're not going to have next gen exclusives ready for the console likely for the next two years? Trust your own eyes dear fool... https://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-series-x-wont-launch-with-next-gen-exclusive-/1100-6472671/

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jeezers

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#537  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin: no one needs next gen exclusives in the first years, at launch of this gen the games that took the most advantage of the new harware were cross gen.

GTA5 and Titanfall > Knack and Shadowfall

Making games exclusives for only your newest hardware while refusing to make a downgrade version for your bigger player base is anti consumer.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#538  Edited By BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5443 Posts

@jeezers said:

@BenjaminBanklin: no one needs next gen exclusives in the first years, at launch of this gen the games that took the most advantage of the new harware were cross gen.

GTA5 and Titanfall > Knack and Shadowfall

Making games exclusives for only your newest hardware while refusing to make a downgrade version for your bigger player base is anti consumer.

Everything is anti-consumer with you boys. I think charging you boys to play online and putting f2p games behind a paywall is pretty anti-consumer too, but you seemed to have gotten over that. Why make next-gen hardware if they didn't want you to buy it? Good ol' trillion-dollar company, never thinking about money, only looking out for you. Offering a next gen box while serving folks last gen games. They're SO good to you. 🤣🤣🤣

I think you fellas are pretty much just anti-dignity at this point.

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Pedro

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#539 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 36569 Posts

@jeezers said:

@BenjaminBanklin: no one needs next gen exclusives in the first years, at launch of this gen the games that took the most advantage of the new harware were cross gen.

GTA5 and Titanfall > Knack and Shadowfall

Making games exclusives for only your newest hardware while refusing to make a downgrade version for your bigger player base is anti consumer.

Microsoft screwed him over and he has been bitter and angry ever since. So, you have to cut him some slack.

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Antwan3K

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#540 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 4502 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin: just so we can all be clear:

What truly "next-gen" game released for PS4 at launch?..

Heck, what truly "next-gen" game released for PS3 at launch?..

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Pedro

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#541 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 36569 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

@BenjaminBanklin: just so we can all be clear:

What truly "next-gen" game released for PS4 at launch?..

Heck, what truly "next-gen" game released for PS3 at launch?..

This will be interesting
This will be interesting

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Zero_epyon

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#542  Edited By Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13616 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

@BenjaminBanklin: just so we can all be clear:

What truly "next-gen" game released for PS4 at launch?..

Heck, what truly "next-gen" game released for PS3 at launch?..

PS4: Infamous Second Son

PS3: Resistance: Fall of Man

Edit: Adding Xbox

360: Kameo: Elements of Power

Xbox One: Dead Rising 3

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jeezers

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#543  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin: I dont even own an xbox one , i went ps4, Switch, PC.

Cross gen titles are a good thing tho.

Ironically when upgraded from my 360 to a ps4, the games worth getting or playing were cross gen games, BF4, GTA5, Destiny, Last of us. I already owned gta5 on 360 and double dipped because the game took advantage of the new hardware.

I diddnt even bother with knack or shadowfall, those games sucked ass and were a waste of money.

There is NO reason knack couldnt have been on ps3, same with shadowfall. They diddnt take advantage of the hardware at all.

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jeezers

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#544 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 3903 Posts

@Pedro: what they to him? Did Phil Spencer run over his dog?

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#545 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 36569 Posts

@jeezers said:

@Pedro: what they to him? Did Phil Spencer run over his dog?

Some sad story about the transition from 360 to Xbox One. He felt MS betrayed his trust during that transition and have been strangely obsess and upset with the company ever since.

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ellos

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#546  Edited By ellos
Member since 2015 • 2125 Posts

@jeezers said:

@BenjaminBanklin: I dont even own an xbox one , i went ps4, Switch, PC.

Cross gen titles are a good thing tho.

Ironically when upgraded from my 360 to a ps4, the games worth getting or playing were cross gen games, BF4, GTA5, Destiny, Last of us. I already owned gta5 on 360 and double dipped because the game took advantage of the new hardware.

I diddnt even bother with knack or shadowfall, those games sucked ass and were a waste of money.

There is NO reason knack couldnt have been on ps3, same with shadowfall. They diddnt take advantage of the hardware at all.

That and several other games that came within two years could have been technically done on ps3. I think the point though ps3 would have needed the "Well can I at least play this while sitting on the toilet sit" excuse.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#547 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5443 Posts

@Antwan3K said:

@BenjaminBanklin: just so we can all be clear:

What truly "next-gen" game released for PS4 at launch?..

Heck, what truly "next-gen" game released for PS3 at launch?..

No PS3 game looked like Shadow Fall.

No 360 game looked like Ryse.

Not the best games for damn sure, but they were graphical beasts. That's something Xbox just plain can't sport while being tethered to a damn Jaguar next gen. Next gen is coming up for Xbox, but it's STILL out of reach because MS just isn't going to have those graphically impressive games that takes advantage of the hardware ready for at least two years of launch. You're gonna have to be patient, Chief. Or. buy a PS5, who'll have next gen exclusives well underway by then.

I don't know what's going on, but that's TWO gens of MS not being able to get it together. Yet most Boners can's seem to get a clue at why so many people hopped off the train.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#548 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5443 Posts

@jeezers said:

@Pedro: what they to him? Did Phil Spencer run over his dog?

Phil Spencer and Don Mattrick ran over your dog, told people the dog was doing fine, then hid the carcass when people asked to see it. But instead of being angry at them, you begged them to do it again, and defended their actions.

Long story short, if you love dogs, stay away from Xbox.

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Pedro

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#549 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 36569 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin said:

No PS3 game looked like Shadow Fall.

No 360 game looked like Ryse.

Not the best games for damn sure, but they were graphical beasts. That's something Xbox just plain can't sport while being tethered to a damn Jaguar next gen. Next gen is coming up for Xbox, but it's STILL out of reach because MS just isn't going to have those graphically impressive games that takes advantage of the hardware ready for at least two years of launch. You're gonna have to be patient, Chief. Or. buy a PS5, who'll have next gen exclusives well underway by then.

I don't know what's going on, but that's TWO gens of MS not being able to get it together. Yet most Boners can's seem to get a clue at why so many people hopped off the train.

You mean MS and other developers would not be able to do what Control and Metro did? Use advance graphical features not only on stronger hardware but features that are exclusive to these hardware despite being compatible with older? You must hate facts and not have a full grasp of how computers work. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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#550 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 36569 Posts

@jeezers said:

@Pedro: what they to him? Did Phil Spencer run over his dog?

I was wrong apparently its much worse

"Phil Spencer and Don Mattrick ran over his dog, told people his dog was doing fine, then hid the carcass when people asked to see it. But instead of getting over it he spent the last 6 years of his life stalking Don then Phil and upgrades his PC to play Xbox games"

Tragic back story
Tragic back story