Mark Hargett (Former PS5 Principal Software Engineer) on Variable Clocks

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ttboy

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#51 ttboy
Member since 2003 • 547 Posts

@greygoose12 said:

Well there is no concrete evidence the Ps5 gpu is 9.2 tf its pretty reasonable if it wasn't so overclocked thats what the base tf would be. Add the github leak that the ps5 has the oberion chip which is 9.2 tf before the Ps5 was released and makes even more sense.

I think Sony was originally going to have a 9.2 gpu running at 2.0 GHz but upped it last minute because the underestimated the 12.1 tf Series x was putting out. They upped the clocks to get a double digit tf number. I think they had to redesign the cooling system to accommodate. I believe this raised the cost of the ps5 production. It would have been cheaper to just up the gpu but it was to far along in the process.

Its all speculation. The real question is will a higher OC and a weaker gpu effect fps and res. Most of Sony's games at the reveal were running at 30 fps. Phil has already said you will see a difference of the Series x power during the July reveal in fps. At the Microsoft reveal if most games run at 60fps /4k vs just a few a the Sony reveal it will be a big selling point for the Series x. We will have to see.

I believe this as well

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#52 Zero_epyon  Online
Member since 2004 • 14402 Posts

@ttboy said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@ttboy said:

@Juub1990:

@Pedro said:
@Juub1990 said:

No because you can't deliver 500W to a console no matter what you do. Basing the clocks on temps would be problematic because as he said, temps are influenced by external and unpredictable variables such as weather. So they based them on power draw.

In addition to this, the cooling system can be design to handle a specific amount of heat based on the power draw which "eliminates" the concern of overheating excluding external factors. (Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken)

At the end of the day it's all based on Temp. This would be the first variable clocked system (any electronic device) ever built that doesn't need to throttle based on Temp. What he is saying is that in this situation it is really difficult to optimize code for.

Microsoft's system can't escape temps either but what they've done is fix the GPU/CPU clock. I would imagine that if the Temp is too high in that environment it will just stop both CPU and GPU to protect damaging the device. Many fixed systems have to do that.

Cerny isn't being 100% honest unless he can escape thermal dynamics.

I'm sure the PS5 will have similar mechanisms in case you want to play your PS5 in an oven lol. But seriously, the point is that the game will run the same regardless of how hot the PS5 gets and the cooling system will be able to handle heat independently from what's going on on screen. That's why the PS5 is so massive.

In engineering its really really hard to test for all scenarios. There are too many vulnerabilities including code not yet written that will push your system to the max. Basically you just build in a fail safe shutdown. No cooling can save you.

No disagreements here.

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Tessellation

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#53 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9123 Posts

@hardwenzen: my bad such big different like 9 and 9.2 makes a big difference lol , still a weak console.

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Tessellation

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#54 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9123 Posts

@ermacness: lol hype , but hype won't make it more powerful , still a weak POS overclocked compare to the competition 🤣

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#55 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 1722 Posts

@Tessellation said:

@hardwenzen: my bad such big different like 9 and 9.2 makes a big difference lol , still a weak console.

was joking lol

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mclarenmaster18

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#56 mclarenmaster18
Member since 2014 • 3059 Posts

PS5 and Xbox Series X are still stronger than Nintendo Switch though.

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Bluestars

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#57 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

Xbox series x will be the most powerful console on the planet when it releases,nothing new there,the x shits on the pro

Bu bu bu...... no buts....only one company can claim the above

3rd place got cows in all sorts of a mess

Bless

HaH

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#58  Edited By ermacness
Member since 2005 • 8361 Posts

@Tessellation:

Now with the power on Xbox side, does that make them more appealing now?

Did the power advantage make the x1x more appealing than the pro?

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#59  Edited By ermacness
Member since 2005 • 8361 Posts

@bluestars:

Well your outlook and mines differ greatly. While the x was definitely more powerful the only advantage that the power difference gave the x over the pro was a mild resolution bump in 90% of games. Unless you had them both side by side and under a microscope, you could barely tell the difference. That's not what I'll equate to as "shitting".

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#60 Greygoose12  Online
Member since 2020 • 55 Posts

As Phil Spencer says the difference in resolution in the next gen will not be noticable. Immersion will be noticable in the next gen higher fps, raytracing will matter. Just look at the 30 fps hate threads. Res dont matter anymore. Fps and Ray tracing will be the only noticable difference as far as graphics. If the Series x can run 60 fps to Sony 30 Fps in most games that will be game changer. If it can't then the power difference means very little. We will see in the future. We can argue power differences that we had in the past. That means nothing. We can argue subjective power differences in the next gen till were blue in the face. That means nothing. Fps and immersion is all that matters to modern gamers. Either it can or it can't, we will see.

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#61 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 1049 Posts

@subspecies said:

@Pedro: Can't answer. Gotcha.

no he just calls you stupid no matter what you say. even if it make sense. he is a reason im done with system wars. im done having an opinion and being called stupid for it. system wars is suppose to fun because in the end we are all just gamers that have no clue what the out come of each gen turns out. it's one thing going back and forth on what system we like the most but once each other starts calling each other names just makes you look like an asshole.

and no im not hurt or triggered or anything im just done being called stupid for my (spelling or grammar or me hyping the ps5). I can give a shit about my grammar or spelling im not getting graded on system wars.

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tormentos

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#62  Edited By tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@Pedro said:

But but buh its always running at max clocks....🤣

Teh boost.

The poster above me is dying on the inside. 😎

EDIT: PS5 holding gaming back...

It will as long as thy CPU is hold down a little like DF claim,if you have any information from inside contradicting DF post it lemming.😂

@Tessellation said:

LMAO LGBTstation 5 news get worse everyday 🤣, the 9 TFLOPs console is a joke

We have another lemming with issues here that powerful was TLOU2 ownage. 😂

@Juub1990 said:
@FinalFighters said:

Ok why do people keep mentioning 9.2TF on the PS5?? i checked and no article states that so Where is this coming from?

Old github leaks that tested a 36 CU's chip at 2GHz that was purported to be the PS5's GPU.

If we are going to go by that is even less,since th first github leak wasn't 2.0ghz it was 1.8ghz,it was posted here,hell one of the test showed the PS5 with higher bandwdith than the xbox series X.

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#63  Edited By Sky_Fade
Member since 2006 • 38 Posts

@greygoose12: Well the difference between the two consoles is roughly 18% in raw GPU TFLOP numbers (likely less in real world, as performance with the number of SM units do not scale with perfectly linearity) and looks to be 10% at most in the CPU space. RAM Appears to be a wash between systems, and SSD is firmly in the PS5's favor.

All told, the difference between the two consoles is way smaller then the Xbox One / PS4 or the Xbox One X / PS4 Pro. My guess is for multi-platform games the advantage would be to the Xbox Series X, but the difference would be slight.

Xbox 3840x2160 (4k) vs PS5 3648x2052, hardly anything to get worked up over and something that is certainly going to have little impact on the sales numbers this coming generation.

Price, Exclusives, vendor lock-in, loyalty, and extra features (Gamepass, PSPlus) are all going to be way more important things.

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tormentos

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#64 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@Pedro said:

There is no concrete evidence that the PS5 GPU downgrades to 9.2 TFLOPS. This will remain a baseless rumor until proven otherwise. The only thing that is a fact is that the 10.28 TFLOPS is not sustained.

It is sustainable as long as the CPU is hold back,it has been very clear by now.

@BlackShirt20 said:

@Pedro: the CPU can’t sustain 3.5 either.

It’s clear why they never discuss actual performance. It’s clear why Sony said a lot of their games are targeting 30FPS. It’s clear why they only want to focus on a loading drive.

This comment is based on total bullshit blind fanboysm and total lack of knowledge.

Any Ryzen 2 CPU at even 3.2ghz with 16 freaking threads is more than enough to blast 60FPS hell i am sure it can blast 120FPS without problem given that the GPU has the power to deliver them.

There are 60FPS games on freaking xbox and PS4 with freaking jaguar cores.

There will be 30FPS games on series X book mark this post,you can give console developers 20TF and still they will make a 30FPS game it has nothing to do with limitations is a choice for them.

When the xbox 360 launched in 2005 few if any GPU were more powerful and still 30FPS gams rained,it is a choice design not a limitation.

@greygoose12 said:

Well there is no concrete evidence the Ps5 gpu is 9.2 tf its pretty reasonable if it wasn't so overclocked thats what the base tf would be. Add the github leak that the ps5 has the oberion chip which is 9.2 tf before the Ps5 was released and makes even more sense.

I think Sony was originally going to have a 9.2 gpu running at 2.0 GHz but upped it last minute because the underestimated the 12.1 tf Series x was putting out. They upped the clocks to get a double digit tf number. I think they had to redesign the cooling system to accommodate. I believe this raised the cost of the ps5 production. It would have been cheaper to just up the gpu but it was to far along in the process.

Its all speculation. The real question is will a higher OC and a weaker gpu effect fps and res. Most of Sony's games at the reveal were running at 30 fps. Phil has already said you will see a difference of the Series x power during the July reveal in fps. At the Microsoft reveal if most games run at 60fps /4k vs just a few a the Sony reveal it will be a big selling point for the Series x. We will have to see.

No the github test was just that a TEST.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-is-amd-gonzalo-the-ps5-processor-in-theory

The first test wasn't even 9.2TF in fact it was 1.8ghz,but it was just that a test,one of those test also showed the bandwidth of the PS5 with more than 560gb/s which clearly is not the one for PS5,so it was just a test.

The PS5 was built around smart shift,it wasn't upclock to 2.23ghz from 2.0 or 1.8,and in fact from what it is been say it was locked,bucause it could go even higher but would break chip logic and cause problem.

The series X even if the PS5 was 9.2 TF would have a smaller gap like 30% compare to the xbox one x vs pro of PS4 vs xbox one of 40%.

The power advantage the series X has over the PS5 is not enough to run a game at 60FPS while the PS5 run it at 30FPS some of you are day dreaming.

Even 9.2TF vs 12TF would not be enough for a game to run 60FPS on xbox and 30FPS on PS5 is simply out of this world.

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tormentos

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#65 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@ttboy said:

It still will get hot. Basically there is no free lunch. Max boost clocks, no appreciable heat, sustained at all times is not possible in this world. This laptop that uses Smart Shift/Game Shift achieved 10 -15% CPU and 5-10% gaming performance increase at the cost of Max fans at all times.

https://hothardware.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-review?page=4

That only improved when we turned on Dell Game Shift. The system performed CPU-focused tests on average 10 to 15% faster than when the setting was off. Gaming tests universally showed improvement, but it wasn't quite as pronounced. Still, a free performance boost of 5 - 10% or so is very welcome. The cost to Game Shift is added noise and heat generated. The fans hit 100% and stay there with Game Shift enabled, and the system does get fairly loud. Gamers who play with headphones on aren't going to notice, but they could certainly notice the extra boost in frames per second in more challenging titles.

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-2020

On our casual heat test, the underside of the Dell G5 15 SE measured 106 degrees Fahrenheit, which is a little higher than our 95-degree comfort threshold, but thanks to the plastic, it only ever felt warm. The center of the keyboard and touchpad hit 100 and 82 degrees, respectively. The hottest the machine got was 110 degrees on the bottom left of the screen’s bezels.

I played Assassin’s Creed Odyssey for 15 minutes and the machine never felt hot thanks to the fans going full blast.

Ok it is obvious that you don't get it,boost on PS5 is not the same as boost on PC,in fact clock speed on PS5 is not even been boosted,they are been thruttle back.

So if you have your typical laptop or desktop at 3.5ghz with boost it reach 3.8ghz for a certain amount of time and is totally dependent on heat.

On PS5 speed is 2.23ghz and when the CPU needs more power the GPU drops power which reduce frequency by a small %.

So because power doesn't scale linearly with frequency,a 10% drop in power in the worse case scenario would produce a small reduction in frequency which mean 3% or 4% probably DF claims 3%.

So as you can see the PS5 is not boosting anything all the contrary is thruttleing speed,based on a power reduction,the PS5 doesn't drop frequency based on heat,it does so based on a power requirement,so the actual temperature of the SOC is actually more stable and predictable than just taking your stock chip and just over clocking it.

@ttboy said:

In engineering its really really hard to test for all scenarios. There are too many vulnerabilities including code not yet written that will push your system to the max. Basically you just build in a fail safe shutdown. No cooling can save you.

Every chip produces heat,not every system shots down because of over heating,there have been plently of consoles with no overheating issues or shutdowns.

Again boost on PC vs PS5 is not the same nor work the same way.

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Sagemode87

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#66 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 1549 Posts

@Tessellation: you're not smart enough to see that the thread backfired? Oh geez.

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Sagemode87

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#67 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 1549 Posts

@BlackShirt20: it's clear you don't understand the law of dimenishing returns and that there's only 18 percent difference which means multis will look the same. Sonys dev team vs MS dev teams however...

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#68 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40126 Posts

@tormentos: But you said it can run both CPU and GPU at max.🤣OWNED

@gifford38 said:

no he just calls you stupid no matter what you say. even if it make sense. he is a reason im done with system wars. im done having an opinion and being called stupid for it. system wars is suppose to fun because in the end we are all just gamers that have no clue what the out come of each gen turns out. it's one thing going back and forth on what system we like the most but once each other starts calling each other names just makes you look like an asshole.

and no im not hurt or triggered or anything im just done being called stupid for my (spelling or grammar or me hyping the ps5). I can give a shit about my grammar or spelling im not getting graded on system wars.

The problem is that you refused to make corrections to your errors part of your future discourse. You keep repeating the same fallacy over and over. When you do that, you would not get a positive response.

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tormentos

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#69 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@bluestars said:

Xbox series x will be the most powerful console on the planet when it releases,nothing new there,the x shits on the pro

Bu bu bu...... no buts....only one company can claim the above

3rd place got cows in all sorts of a mess

Bless

HaH

Yeah just like for 4 years the PS4 shits on the xbox one and you payed $100 more and defended 900p and 720p kingtito,at least the pro on 2017 was $100 less not $100 more.🤣🤣🤣

@greygoose12 said:

As Phil Spencer says the difference in resolution in the next gen will not be noticable. Immersion will be noticable in the next gen higher fps, raytracing will matter. Just look at the 30 fps hate threads. Res dont matter anymore. Fps and Ray tracing will be the only noticable difference as far as graphics. If the Series x can run 60 fps to Sony 30 Fps in most games that will be game changer. If it can't then the power difference means very little. We will see in the future. We can argue power differences that we had in the past. That means nothing. We can argue subjective power differences in the next gen till were blue in the face. That means nothing. Fps and immersion is all that matters to modern gamers. Either it can or it can't, we will see.

If you people believe that 18% more power hell even 30% more power will translate into a 60FPS vs 30FPS difference you will be in for a total disapointment.

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#70  Edited By Greygoose12  Online
Member since 2020 • 55 Posts

There is a lot more power under the hood in the Series x. If you just look at the teraflop differences 1.8 would not make games run 30 fps vs 60 fps i agree. You got to ask yourself what is the base tf number with the Sony gpu running at normal clocks, lets say 1.8 Ghz. My guess would be 9 at best. If the series x would run Sony's clocks it would be 14.6 Tf ! Thats 2.5 tf higher so if subtract the OC teraflop gain from the ps5 its prob a 8 teraflop gpu at base fixed clocks.

I believe there is a diminishing return on OC. The more you oc the less you get back. The 10.28 tf vs 12.1 is very misleading. I do believe you see a lot more 60 fps games on the x. The reveal will tell a lot.

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Bluestars

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#71  Edited By Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@tormentos:

Of course I remember,I had both

#realgamer

#HaH

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ttboy

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#72 ttboy
Member since 2003 • 547 Posts

@tormentos said:
@ttboy said:

It still will get hot. Basically there is no free lunch. Max boost clocks, no appreciable heat, sustained at all times is not possible in this world. This laptop that uses Smart Shift/Game Shift achieved 10 -15% CPU and 5-10% gaming performance increase at the cost of Max fans at all times.

https://hothardware.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-review?page=4

That only improved when we turned on Dell Game Shift. The system performed CPU-focused tests on average 10 to 15% faster than when the setting was off. Gaming tests universally showed improvement, but it wasn't quite as pronounced. Still, a free performance boost of 5 - 10% or so is very welcome. The cost to Game Shift is added noise and heat generated. The fans hit 100% and stay there with Game Shift enabled, and the system does get fairly loud. Gamers who play with headphones on aren't going to notice, but they could certainly notice the extra boost in frames per second in more challenging titles.

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-2020

On our casual heat test, the underside of the Dell G5 15 SE measured 106 degrees Fahrenheit, which is a little higher than our 95-degree comfort threshold, but thanks to the plastic, it only ever felt warm. The center of the keyboard and touchpad hit 100 and 82 degrees, respectively. The hottest the machine got was 110 degrees on the bottom left of the screen’s bezels.

I played Assassin’s Creed Odyssey for 15 minutes and the machine never felt hot thanks to the fans going full blast.

Ok it is obvious that you don't get it,boost on PS5 is not the same as boost on PC,in fact clock speed on PS5 is not even been boosted,they are been thruttle back.

So if you have your typical laptop or desktop at 3.5ghz with boost it reach 3.8ghz for a certain amount of time and is totally dependent on heat.

On PS5 speed is 2.23ghz and when the CPU needs more power the GPU drops power which reduce frequency by a small %.

So because power doesn't scale linearly with frequency,a 10% drop in power in the worse case scenario would produce a small reduction in frequency which mean 3% or 4% probably DF claims 3%.

So as you can see the PS5 is not boosting anything all the contrary is thruttleing speed,based on a power reduction,the PS5 doesn't drop frequency based on heat,it does so based on a power requirement,so the actual temperature of the SOC is actually more stable and predictable than just taking your stock chip and just over clocking it.

@ttboy said:

In engineering its really really hard to test for all scenarios. There are too many vulnerabilities including code not yet written that will push your system to the max. Basically you just build in a fail safe shutdown. No cooling can save you.

Every chip produces heat,not every system shots down because of over heating,there have been plently of consoles with no overheating issues or shutdowns.

Again boost on PC vs PS5 is not the same nor work the same way.

I only added the laptop review as it was pointed out that it uses AMD Smart Shift. In fact its the only device in the world using it. You seem to think that PS5 will spend most of the time at max frequency which is the opposite of the Developer quote.

"Sony is using variable frequencies on both the CPU and GPU, which we’d normally refer as to boost clocks on PCs. It’s slightly different, though. In an interview with Eurogamer, Sony PS5 system architect Mark Cerny reveals the console has a set power budget that’s tied to the thermal limits of the system. That means the PS5 performance will vary depending on how much it’s being pushed by games."

Sony is hoping that by offering developers less compute units running at a variable (and higher) clock rate, the company will be able to extract better performance out of the PS5. The reality is that it will require developers to do more work to optimize games for the console until we can find out how it compares to the (more powerful on paper) Xbox Series X.

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#73 xantufrog  Moderator  Online
Member since 2013 • 13047 Posts

@ttboy: he also doesn't seem to understand that the power vs temp tuning of this doesn't matter for the narrative. We aren't discussing BoostTM, with patented "it's only a boost if when you drop off of boost it's due to overheating" technology.

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#74 Greygoose12  Online
Member since 2020 • 55 Posts

@xantufrog: yes correct. OC offers diminishing returns just like AMD smartshift. Also it doesn't rely on thermals but that doesn't mean thermals disappear. When a hardware device of any type gets hot the performance lowers. Plus it shortens the life of the hardware.

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tormentos

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#75 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@Sagemode87 said:

@Tessellation: you're not smart enough to see that the thread backfired? Oh geez.

He truly hasn't...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is the same guy who in 2013 use to claim Kotaku and the dude who leaked the xbox one specs had some secret specs that would be release,simply because he could not deal with the xbox one been 1.28Tf and the PS4 1.84Tf.

When both consoles launched he banish from the forum and i am sure he has been here under an alt,and now recently has come out from his alt into his normal account only to make a fool of him self again.🤣🤣🤣

@Pedro said:

@tormentos: But you said it can run both CPU and GPU at max.🤣OWNED

The problem is that you refused to make corrections to your errors part of your future discourse. You keep repeating the same fallacy over and over. When you do that, you would not get a positive response.

There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz, it isn't the case that the developer has to choose to run one of them slower."

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

No i didn't Mark Cerny did.

So tell me how can you take 1 thing he say as TRUE variable clocks,having to drop power and lower frequency.

But will not take another part simply because it doesn't serve your purpose,that the PS5 can run both components at its peak.

Now from my understanding i think the machine can run both at maximum speed,but probably can't to it all the time which is why one of the component would be hold back power wise.

Outside of the blindfanboysm tell me how else can you read what he say there.

Again for a long time i have been saying that the GPU can be run all the time at 2.2ghz as long as the CPU is hold back,basically you are grasping again.

@greygoose12 said:

There is a lot more power under the hood in the Series x. If you just look at the teraflop differences 1.8 would not make games run 30 fps vs 60 fps i agree. You got to ask yourself what is the base tf number with the Sony gpu running at normal clocks, lets say 1.8 Ghz. My guess would be 9 at best. If the series x would run Sony's clocks it would be 14.6 Tf ! Thats 2.5 tf higher so if subtract the OC teraflop gain from the ps5 its prob a 8 teraflop gpu at base fixed clocks.

I believe there is a diminishing return on OC. The more you oc the less you get back. The 10.28 tf vs 12.1 is very misleading. I do believe you see a lot more 60 fps games on the x. The reveal will tell a lot.

It has 1.8TF more.

This is the difference between 1.8TF on the 5700 vs 5700XT as you can see only 4FPS gap between this 2 GPU at 4k ultra.

Lets say the gap is 3 times this with the same amount of TF gap that would be 12FPS more,is not big is not significant and will probably not yield much.

Mine you the gap is 1.8TF same as the series X,but 1.8TF difference between the 5700 an the 5700XT is actually bigger is 23% not 18% while the number is the same the roof is lower on those GPU 9+ TF vs 7+ TF so the % gap is actually bigger.

Now i am not saying it will be 4FPS but this line of thinking of of 30FPS vs 60FPS it simply will not materialize.

Nor a huge gap either,the series X will always be ahead simply not by much.

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#76  Edited By Subspecies  Online
Member since 2018 • 2407 Posts

@gifford38: Oh, dude, don't worry about Pedro. The dude is just super pissed lately, and comes with this fuming passive-aggressive thing like all the time. Just have fun triggering him and move on, lol.

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#77  Edited By Greygoose12  Online
Member since 2020 • 55 Posts

@tormentos: was one card running Amd Smartshift ? Were they at the same clocks when comparing Teraflops ? You know there are diminishing returns on Oc. Same cpu. RAM ? SAME CU'S ?

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Martin_G_N

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#78 Martin_G_N
Member since 2006 • 1997 Posts

@greygoose12 said:

As Phil Spencer says the difference in resolution in the next gen will not be noticable. Immersion will be noticable in the next gen higher fps, raytracing will matter. Just look at the 30 fps hate threads. Res dont matter anymore. Fps and Ray tracing will be the only noticable difference as far as graphics. If the Series x can run 60 fps to Sony 30 Fps in most games that will be game changer. If it can't then the power difference means very little. We will see in the future. We can argue power differences that we had in the past. That means nothing. We can argue subjective power differences in the next gen till were blue in the face. That means nothing. Fps and immersion is all that matters to modern gamers. Either it can or it can't, we will see.

It won't be 60FPS to 30FPS, no way. If the XsX is doing 60FPS at 4k with some Ray tracing gong on, then the PS5 will also do 60FPS with either the same limited Ray Tracing effects at 1800p checkerboarding, or less Ray tracing effects and full 4K.

Just expect developers to prioritize visuals compared to keeping the games at 60FPS. I expect a lot of visual demanding games still running at 30FPS, especially if it's a lot of ray tracing going on.

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Pedro

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#79 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40126 Posts

@subspecies said:

@gifford38: Oh, dude, don't worry about Pedro. The dude is just super pissed lately, and comes with this fuming passive-aggressive thing like all the time. Just have fun triggering him and move on, lol.

You still think I am pissed? 🤣 That is so cute. 😎

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Pedro

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#80 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40126 Posts

@tormentos: Let me help you out buddy. If the PS5 could run both CPU and GPU at max, there would be no need for Smartshift or running at variable frequency. Don't let the obvious things escape you but, you are still bitter that the Series X outclasses the PS5 and that continues to stress you. 😂

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#81  Edited By Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9123 Posts

LMAO here comes the 50 years old virgin with a wall of butthurt to show us how mad he is and that he can't handle the fact that LGBTSTATION 5 is weak 🤣 bu bu bu muh variable clock frequencies😭

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#82 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9123 Posts

@Pedro: You are replying to a really sad individual lol, specially from someone that is more than 40 years old 🤣. Wanna bet he reports comments like he did last time ?

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Pedro

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#83 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40126 Posts

@Tessellation said:

@Pedro: You are replying to a really sad individual lol, specially from someone that is more than 40 years old 🤣. Wanna bet he reports comments like he did last time ?

I enjoy making fun of him and a few others. Its a good past time on this forum. 😎

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remiks00

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#84 remiks00
Member since 2006 • 3943 Posts
@Juub1990 said:

Basically saying it's a 9.2 TFLOPs console and Cerny lied to us about it being dependent on a power envelope.

Is the strike-through part true or false, I'm kinda drunk & confused at the moment :P

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firedrakes

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#85 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 2149 Posts

why since ps3 has sony had bad thermal consoles?

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BlackShirt20

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#86 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 1710 Posts

@firedrakes: $$$$

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firedrakes

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#87 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 2149 Posts

@BlackShirt20: true

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#88 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 36057 Posts

:P

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#89  Edited By Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@ermacness:

You must have never seen a DF. Comparison video then

I think you will find that the minimal difference was between the PS4 and the pro

Bless

HAH

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ermacness

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#90 ermacness
Member since 2005 • 8361 Posts

@bluestars:

So the x1x version of any multiplat had 60 fps while the pro had 30?

Was the x1x version of any multiplat had more effects, npc's, better draw distances, and/or more effects over the pro versions?

It only had a resolution advantage over 95% of the Pro's versions?

MINIMAL DIFFERENCES.

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#91 I_own_u_4ever
Member since 2020 • 314 Posts

This will be a classic Tormentos meltdown thread. LOL

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#92 I_own_u_4ever
Member since 2020 • 314 Posts
@subspecies said:
@Martin_G_N said:

And still, the rumored cheaper Xbox Lockhart at 4Tflops will hold the XsX and PS5 back.

This is such a hard pill for some to swallow, lol. MS is basically trolling lems.

Hold back how? No it won't. It will have the same CPU so games can still run at the same performance level just minus the graphic fidelity and resolutions of the XSX. Silly Ponies.

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#93  Edited By Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 1549 Posts

@Pedro: The only thing you owned in this thread is an L. Instead of actually refuting his points, you just resort to trolling. What are you not understanding, both machines are in the same ballpark with advantages and disadvantages.

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#94 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 1549 Posts

@i_own_u_4ever: you can't just throw out the word meltdown when you're losing an argument.

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#95 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40126 Posts

@Sagemode87 said:

@Pedro: The only thing you owned in this thread is an L. Instead of actually refuting his points, you just resort to trolling. What are you not understanding, both machines are in the same ballpark with advantages and disadvantages.

What are you even talking about?

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#96 kingtito
Member since 2003 • 10458 Posts

@tormentos: Still clinging to the narrative I'm bluestars? Take the bet clown.

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#97 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@ttboy said:

I only added the laptop review as it was pointed out that it uses AMD Smart Shift. In fact its the only device in the world using it. You seem to think that PS5 will spend most of the time at max frequency which is the opposite of the Developer quote.

"Sony is using variable frequencies on both the CPU and GPU, which we’d normally refer as to boost clocks on PCs. It’s slightly different, though. In an interview with Eurogamer, Sony PS5 system architect Mark Cerny reveals the console has a set power budget that’s tied to the thermal limits of the system. That means the PS5 performance will vary depending on how much it’s being pushed by games."

Sony is hoping that by offering developers less compute units running at a variable (and higher) clock rate, the company will be able to extract better performance out of the PS5. The reality is that it will require developers to do more work to optimize games for the console until we can find out how it compares to the (more powerful on paper) Xbox Series X.

No you are reading it WRONG.

The PS5 has a power budget that power budget is in place for that reason,the PS5 doesn't drop performance based on thermal heat it does so based on workloads.

There, peak performance is tied directly to thermal headroom, so in higher temperature environments, gaming frame-rates can be lower - sometimes a lot lower. This is entirely at odds with expectations from a console, where we expect all machines to deliver the exact same performance. To be abundantly clear from the outset, PlayStation 5 is not boosting clocks in this way. According to Sony, all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be.

So how does boost work in this case? Put simply, the PlayStation 5 is given a set power budget tied to the thermal limits of the cooling assembly. "It's a completely different paradigm," says Cerny. "Rather than running at constant frequency and letting the power vary based on the workload, we run at essentially constant power and let the frequency vary based on the workload."

Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."

From your own link.

No it will not and you can fit with jobs 36CU easier than you can fit more jobs on 52CU.

You are been intentionally dishonest specially trying to compare it with AMD smart shift on a laptop.

@greygoose12 said:

@tormentos: was one card running Amd Smartshift ? Were they at the same clocks when comparing Teraflops ? You know there are diminishing returns on Oc. Same cpu. RAM ? SAME CU'S ?

Stop with the whole diminishing return crap,that is what MS try to claim when sony had 18CU and they had 12 just to downplay the gap the PS4 had.

@Pedro said:

@tormentos: Let me help you out buddy. If the PS5 could run both CPU and GPU at max, there would be no need for Smartshift or running at variable frequency. Don't let the obvious things escape you but, you are still bitter that the Series X outclasses the PS5 and that continues to stress you. 😂

For the second time in a row,i posted information directly from the source,in both cases you go your way to downplay it based on nothing but your biased ass opinion.🤣

I quote Cerny it self stating that,so did i say it like you claim? No i did not i repeat what Cerny claimed,if he say the system can sustain both at max speed who am i to say other wise? Or you for that matter.?😎

But again i think the system can reach max speed on both but probably can't sustain it on both for long periods,that is what i can get from that.

Not been able to run the all the time at max speed is not the same as not been able to run them at all,boost run on PC all the time in many PC but can't be sustained for ever on all PC,doest that mean it can't never run it boost?

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#98 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 34105 Posts

PS5 can push out more flops if it tries hard enough.

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#99 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40126 Posts

@tormentos: Cool story bro now address the point.😎

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#100 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 31509 Posts

@i_own_u_4ever said:

Hold back how? No it won't. It will have the same CPU so games can still run at the same performance level just minus the graphic fidelity and resolutions of the XSX. Silly Ponies.

Yeah is not CPU only what determine if a game run at 60FPS or not,in fact the xbox one jaguar and PS4 can run games at 60FPS,many games can't run at 60FPS because of lack of GPU power.