Larry Herb still doesn't get it about pre-180 Xbone

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Avatar image for XboxStache
#51 Posted by XboxStache (1530 posts) -

What the hell does the sexy studmuffin Major Nelson have to do with the X1's reveal?

Don Mattrick and Matt Booty blew it big time if anything.

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#52 Posted by Shewgenja (17120 posts) -

@k2theswiss said:

no TC you don't get it...

What they are saying in a nice way is don basically committed suicide every time he talked to the press in any way

I don't think anyone at MS could have communicated that DRM stuff properly. At the end of the day, it was a painfully obvious grab at Gamestops balls and everyone knew it. Gamers weren't on board. The ensuing witch hunt even smoked EA of all publishers out of their hidey hole as making a public statement that they weren't the ones who talked MS into doing it (even though, they almost 99% assuredly did). Not to mention Ubisoft ripping their DRM out of PC games as well.

On top of all of that, you had the Snowden fiasco going in full swing and Microsofts complicitness with data collection with the NSA. It was a perfect storm of controversy that happened to make the XBone look like the Somalian genocide baby murderer of consoles. MS was given no choice but to back down or fail. As well it should be. They were fuckfaces for even trying that shit.

Avatar image for stuff238
#53 Posted by stuff238 (1765 posts) -

I am still confused at what the Xbone is or what it is going to become.

First they announce DRM. Gets tons of hate.

Second, they do a 180. Become laughing stock. Hate does not leave.

Third, they now announce another 180 and are bringing back the DRM. This time they are trying to act nice about it. They are are trying to be sneaky. They are really trying hard to make it sound good when we are all smart enough to know it is not. Sadly for them it is too late and everyone can see through their lies. It is just a shit show at M$ right now.

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#54 Posted by santoron (8582 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncher said:

And then he had a little tantrum about the PS4 lineup. Because you know, these guys, so humble now.

This was the part that cracked me up. Marjor Nelson apparently needs to learn the lesson that it's far better to let their claim go unfulfilled and THEN roast them, rather than volunteer a bitter statement that might just come back to bite...

Avatar image for Heil68
#55 Posted by Heil68 (56969 posts) -

The reveal was a text book example of how not to reveal a new product..hahaah

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#57 Posted by Shewgenja (17120 posts) -

@FastRobby said:

Because why do we have to think the worst? If we should always think the worst, well than project Morpheus will suck compared to oculus, PS Now will never work everywhere properly, all games that are still coming out will be shit, on all platforms, etc etc.

Maybe the media instead of shouting that it sucks, ask Microsoft what they were planning to do. They were all spouting their hatred, which is OK, but they never gave Microsoft a chance to defend themselves. How hard can it be to check what everyone is hatin about, create a list of questions and just let Microsoft answer them all, if then the answers aren't to your pleasing, you can keep shouting, but this was a classic case of internet being ignorant.

I agree. Let's gather around the fire and sing Kumbayah while sharing our stories about how Wonderful Microsofts track record is for consumer confidence. We can talk about how it took the threat of class-action lawsuits to get them to extend warranties on the 360. How about how they were literally leaping at the opportunity to share Windows users information with the NSA. The about face on gamers as they sold off Bungie and have a new studio working on the Halo series as a result while spending half a billion to promote Kinect. Enclosed their Windows Store in Win8. How about the Halloween Documents?

Yes, let's just trust Microsoft to make the right choices and not hold them accountable for any transparency whatsoever when they launch a new home console with a fucking camera in living rooms across the planet. I mean, what could possibly go wrong here? If Microsoft was a teenage boy, I'd totally let him spend the night with my daughter cuz he's such a swell guy. What fucking lunatic dimension are you from?

Avatar image for super600
#58 Edited by super600 (32216 posts) -

@stuff238 said:

I am still confused at what the Xbone is or what it is going to become.

First they announce DRM. Gets tons of hate.

Second, they do a 180. Become laughing stock. Hate does not leave.

Third, they now announce another 180 and are bringing back the DRM. This time they are trying to act nice about it. They are are trying to be sneaky. They are really trying hard to make it sound good when we are all smart enough to know it is not. Sadly for them it is too late and everyone can see through their lies. It is just a shit show at M$ right now.

They are not going to bring back drm in the next five years or even more trust me. If they feel like that the consumers will benefit from drm they will bring it back on the xbox one or whatever console they create after the xbox one, but this is only if the consumers opinion changes about drm and they will have to prove this.

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#59 Posted by Shewgenja (17120 posts) -

@super600 said:

@stuff238 said:

I am still confused at what the Xbone is or what it is going to become.

First they announce DRM. Gets tons of hate.

Second, they do a 180. Become laughing stock. Hate does not leave.

Third, they now announce another 180 and are bringing back the DRM. This time they are trying to act nice about it. They are are trying to be sneaky. They are really trying hard to make it sound good when we are all smart enough to know it is not. Sadly for them it is too late and everyone can see through their lies. It is just a shit show at M$ right now.

They are not going to bring back drm in the next five years or even more trust me. If they feel like that the consumers will benefit from drm they will bring it back on the xbox one or whatever console they create after the xbox one, but this is only if the consumers opinion changes about drm and they will have to prove this.

Yeah, their accountability would be utterly shot if they brought DRM back this gen. It would cause riots lol

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#61 Edited by Shewgenja (17120 posts) -

@FastRobby said:

I only agree with the class-action lawsuites to exten warranties on the xbox 360, the rest is not true. Share information with NSA? Leaping to? Please, all companies shared, why only focus on Microsoft? That's why they put their data overseas, right? Bungie wanted to seperate, they didn't want to be stuck to the halo franchise all their life, and keep doing the same thing. They wanted to create new games, for more platforms, don't know why Microsoft is the bad guy in it. Nothing is wrong with Kinect, try using it before commenting on it, it works perfectly for me. Enclosed like Apple does? This is normal business behaviour... Halloween documents was 15 years ago, maybe you also want to point out how Bill Gates fucked Apple in the 70's? If you are going that far back to divisions that have nothing to do with Xbox division...

In your second paragraph you start with the kinect spy camera again, please put on your tinfoil hat, throw your phone (not just smartphone, your phone because they can hack that too) away, and don't forget the webcam, internet connection is a big no-no, so please refrain from posting on the internet. Best is you live in the Sahara desert, I don't think they have great satellites going over that part of the world constantly. Microsoft already said that they don't do anything with the information Kinect receives when it's turned off, it only listens to xbox on command, so only hackers could do you harm, just like they can do now.

They were, in fact, one of the first companies to share info with the NSA. Fact.

Microsoft is the bad guy because while they were pounding the PS3 in the doodoo-hole early on with the 360, they should have ponied up some coin to put the 343i team in as a second team at Bungie to ease the transition away from being a Halo-only house and let the creative teams work on other better stuff. Instead, they hard-balled over the whole thing and just let Bungie go. Meanwhile, dropping hundreds of millions to pimp a peripheral out to non-gamers to go chasing after the Wii. It was a hoe move. Certifiable hoe-ness. For the record, I tried Kinect at a friends house, I tried like hell to like it mainly because I was giving her the D at the time but that shit was whack. SO WHACK in fact, that Ryse became a controller game even though it was originally a Kinect title. Even MS knows it's whack behind closed doors, obviously.

By the way, thanks for proving their track record is longer than even I was willing to bring up.

Please don't equivocate a device that spends most of its time in my pocket or face down on a night stand charging to something in your living room pointed directly at your couch by design on a console that not only acts as a gaming console but also a conduit for your TV viewing.. Tinfoil hat has sweet ****-all to do with it. You could try common sense since I was so generous with giving Kinect a spin. Oh, and then this happened, too. You REALLY should have seen what the article looked like before Mehdi got his ass chewed out for swinging the MS dingaling out there like that. The fallout was juicy as ****!

And on that bombshell, I have some work to do. Good day, sir.

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#63 Posted by killatwill15 (855 posts) -

@_Matt_ said:

@GrenadeLauncher said:

@_Matt_ said:

@RR360DD said:

And he's totally right.

Quite funny actually, i think he was a big part of the reason they failed to get their message across when it first revealed.

I think that's more than likely true actually. Larry is not particularly great with his words.

Spencer ftw.

Indeed.

You gotta admit, he has an excellent taste in jackets.

black blazer = good taste?

man I must have the most cultured taste, I even have the same color shirt.

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#64 Posted by granddogg (657 posts) -

so tc you dont like the saying they made mistakes?...

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#65 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (10669 posts) -

Right now Microsoft is like a cat playing with a mouse (Sony). First they let 'em go this way and they stop 'em with their paw. Then they let 'em go that way and they stop 'em with their paw. THEN THEY SQUASH THEIR ASS!!!!!

Avatar image for CrownKingArthur
#66 Edited by CrownKingArthur (5262 posts) -

@FoxbatAlpha:

2 funny

Avatar image for StormyJoe
#67 Edited by StormyJoe (7470 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncher: Jesus, you cows just scower the internet for any remote piece of news that could possibly be twisted to look bad for MS or XB1 and blow it up. How fricken insecure are you about your console of choice? If the XB1 passes the PS4, I wouldn't be suprised to hear about mass cow suicide.

Seriously... read real news for a while.

Avatar image for PurpleMan5000
#68 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (8993 posts) -

@granddogg said:

so tc you dont like the saying they made mistakes?...

The problem is their failure to identify what their mistake actually was (the drm).

Avatar image for shawn30
#69 Edited by shawn30 (4367 posts) -

@speedfreak48t5p said:

I would hate to be someone who spent my valuable money on an Xbox One.

I think its a great console. Great games and features. People buy what interests them, lol. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#70 Posted by Shewgenja (17120 posts) -

@granddogg said:

so tc you dont like the saying they made mistakes?...

Not when they say the mistake was miscalculating HOW they were going to buttfuck gamers, not just doing it in the first place. That would be like me saying that I'm sorry I slept with your sister raw doggy and disappeared when she got pregnant, next time I'll leave a few hundred dollars in an envelope so I help pay for the abortion.

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#71 Posted by Pray_to_me (4014 posts) -

"We didn't properly communicate how we wanted to **** gamers out of their basic consumer rights"

Avatar image for jsmoke03
#72 Edited by jsmoke03 (13696 posts) -

always sign in 24 hours a day or you will lose functionality to play games offline....

i wonder how you can fail to communicate that properly?!?! they could have still had the family sharing thing without the need of drm?

i was prepared to go this gen without the xb1 until those policy reversals

Avatar image for kingtito
#73 Posted by kingtito (7912 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@WilliamRLBaker said:

lol your trying to argue logically with shew that's not possible, Mind you If tomorrow sony came out with an aggressive drm plan and literally said in 15 years we will shut down the servers nixing the games ability to play he would be all for it make up weird scenarios where its only right for the gamer and the best option for the companies because than those users can spend their time buying the new system and games instead of playing the old.

99% of sheen's you can make one logical argument In any scenario Sony=good Microsoft=bad even then they do the exact same thing.

And this is why you are known as a window licker. If Sony announced that, I would put a Youtube video of me smashing the PS4 with a sledgehammer and urge SW to do the same. It's hard for a fanboy like you to wrap your head around this, but brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty is the dumbest shit you can possibly be capable of. Don't accuse me of that shit. You have exactly no evidence that I would do that.

On the contrary, I would pick up a WiiU immediately, although I plan on picking one up after E3.

Sure you would cow. What did you say in an earlier post......Oh right "you don't have to lie to kick it".

Avatar image for PurpleMan5000
#74 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (8993 posts) -

@jsmoke03 said:

always sign in 24 hours a day or you will lose functionality to play games offline....

i wonder how you can fail to communicate that properly?!?! they could have still had the family sharing thing without the need of drm?

i was prepared to go this gen without the xb1 until those policy reversals

Microsoft probably now realizes that the preferred way of addressing those issues would be to say "We are not commenting on DRM. That information will be available on the EULA that will be displayed on your television sets when you first turn the system on. Now, let's talk about Ryse. Oh, and have you seen Titanfall?"

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#75 Edited by Shewgenja (17120 posts) -

@kingtito said:

Sure you would cow. What did you say in an earlier post......Oh right "you don't have to lie to kick it".

I hope you don't cry like this with people you know IRL who don't like the XBone. Don't be THAT guy, k?

Avatar image for kingtito
#76 Posted by kingtito (7912 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@kingtito said:

Sure you would cow. What did you say in an earlier post......Oh right "you don't have to lie to kick it".

I hope you don't cry like this with people you know IRL who don't like the XBone. Don't be THAT guy, k?

Pointing out your hypocrisy is crying? Who's the one hating here kid? Not me since I don't go around putting down the PS4 for no reason. You on the other hand.........not so much.

You keep living in this fantasy land of yours kid. I'll enjoy gaming from all consoles.

Avatar image for jsmoke03
#77 Posted by jsmoke03 (13696 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

@jsmoke03 said:

always sign in 24 hours a day or you will lose functionality to play games offline....

i wonder how you can fail to communicate that properly?!?! they could have still had the family sharing thing without the need of drm?

i was prepared to go this gen without the xb1 until those policy reversals

Microsoft probably now realizes that the preferred way of addressing those issues would be to say "We are not commenting on DRM. That information will be available on the EULA that will be displayed on your television sets when you first turn the system on. Now, let's talk about Ryse. Oh, and have you seen Titanfall?"

damn that would have been a shitstorm. that would have truly killed the xbox1.

even sony was smart and included an faq before release. its how they didnt get away from the hdcp and the media server thing....

Avatar image for blackace
#78 Edited by blackace (23341 posts) -

@speedfreak48t5p said:

I would hate to be someone who spent my valuable money on an Xbox One.

I wouldn't. Great games great fun. I'm having lots of fun with my XB1 games. There's a lot more to come,

Avatar image for blackace
#79 Posted by blackace (23341 posts) -

@stuff238 said:

I am still confused at what the Xbone is or what it is going to become.

First they announce DRM. Gets tons of hate.

Second, they do a 180. Become laughing stock. Hate does not leave.

Third, they now announce another 180 and are bringing back the DRM. This time they are trying to act nice about it. They are are trying to be sneaky. They are really trying hard to make it sound good when we are all smart enough to know it is not. Sadly for them it is too late and everyone can see through their lies. It is just a shit show at M$ right now.

They aren't bringing back DRM. LOL!! Where the hell did you get that nonsense from? Don't listen to biased trolling cows on this site. DRM is not returning. XB1 is just like Xbox 360. Sony has lied throughout 3 generations, yet fanboys continue to ride their coattails. Lied about PS2. Lied about PS3. Lied about PS4 games. Yet, fanboys act like they have never done anything wrong to the consumers. lol!! What a joke. At least M$ admitted their error, apologized and are on the right track now. Sony has never apologized. They lied to every gamer and investor when their PSN got hacked. They lied to the government as well. Hilarious how people forgot all about that after the PS4 is announced and released.

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#80 Edited by GrenadeLauncher (6843 posts) -

Classic blackace meltdown.

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#81 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (6843 posts) -

Wow, let's make that wider. Lemmings are having a meltdown all over the place in my little thread now.

@StormyJoe said:

@GrenadeLauncher: Jesus, you cows just scower the internet for any remote piece of news that could possibly be twisted to look bad for MS or XB1 and blow it up. How fricken insecure are you about your console of choice? If the XB1 passes the PS4, I wouldn't be suprised to hear about mass cow suicide.

Seriously... read real news for a while.

What's wrong? Feeling that gnaw of doubt? It's not too late to flog it off and get a decent price for it before the inevitable.

@shawn30 said:

@speedfreak48t5p said:

I would hate to be someone who spent my valuable money on an Xbox One.

I think its a great console. Great games and features. People buy what interests them, lol. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Speedfreak's point proven nicely here.

Avatar image for StormyJoe
#82 Posted by StormyJoe (7470 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncher said:

Wow, let's make that wider. Lemmings are having a meltdown all over the place in my little thread now.

@StormyJoe said:

@GrenadeLauncher: Jesus, you cows just scower the internet for any remote piece of news that could possibly be twisted to look bad for MS or XB1 and blow it up. How fricken insecure are you about your console of choice? If the XB1 passes the PS4, I wouldn't be suprised to hear about mass cow suicide.

Seriously... read real news for a while.

What's wrong? Feeling that gnaw of doubt? It's not too late to flog it off and get a decent price for it before the inevitable.

@shawn30 said:

@speedfreak48t5p said:

I would hate to be someone who spent my valuable money on an Xbox One.

I think its a great console. Great games and features. People buy what interests them, lol. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Speedfreak's point proven nicely here.

Not all. I just find the whole topic of this thread quite trivial, and am wondering why you would waste your time making it.

Avatar image for HalcyonScarlet
#83 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (7493 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

That article is insightful on Spencer. He doesn't blame the anti-consumer DRM but how it was communicated. I think there is middle ground for both the message and the actual DRM being the problem.

In any event, it seems that Spencer (who's been promoted as Xbox Head) is keen on trying that DRM approach again in the future. Maybe roll it out slowly this time.

It's pretty much because MS looked at Steam and thought they could do it with consoles. They even admitted it. That's what the original X1 business model was, Steam without the sales and with all this media functionality, but that's the thing, steam DOES not work without the sales, people think they do the sales out of the goodness of their hearts, they don't. Without sales, there is no way people accept DRM.

That's what they mean with the message. It's not simple, which is the problem. When you're selling something, you need to communicate quickly. There is no way to do that when most of the services aren't even ready to be demonstrated because they're being rushed to market. I'm convinced the X1 was rushed to market a full year before it was realistically ready. It went from barebones to adequate. Software is still no where near ready, games, DX12, example uses of the cloud, none of it is ready.

I honestly don't think MS will dare try to rollout a Steam approach on consoles again anytime soon no matter what. It's just way too much of a business risk given the backlash they got this time. If they do that again they'll just lose more and more ground.

Avatar image for blackace
#84 Edited by blackace (23341 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@FastRobby said:

Because why do we have to think the worst? If we should always think the worst, well than project Morpheus will suck compared to oculus, PS Now will never work everywhere properly, all games that are still coming out will be shit, on all platforms, etc etc.

Maybe the media instead of shouting that it sucks, ask Microsoft what they were planning to do. They were all spouting their hatred, which is OK, but they never gave Microsoft a chance to defend themselves. How hard can it be to check what everyone is hatin about, create a list of questions and just let Microsoft answer them all, if then the answers aren't to your pleasing, you can keep shouting, but this was a classic case of internet being ignorant.

I agree. Let's gather around the fire and sing Kumbayah while sharing our stories about how Wonderful Microsofts track record is for consumer confidence. We can talk about how it took the threat of class-action lawsuits to get them to extend warranties on the 360. How about how they were literally leaping at the opportunity to share Windows users information with the NSA. The about face on gamers as they sold off Bungie and have a new studio working on the Halo series as a result while spending half a billion to promote Kinect. Enclosed their Windows Store in Win8. How about the Halloween Documents?

Yes, let's just trust Microsoft to make the right choices and not hold them accountable for any transparency whatsoever when they launch a new home console with a fucking camera in living rooms across the planet. I mean, what could possibly go wrong here? If Microsoft was a teenage boy, I'd totally let him spend the night with my daughter cuz he's such a swell guy. What fucking lunatic dimension are you from?

The same could be said for Sony as well. Sony had to be sued before they acknowledged that the PS2 had DRE issues. The Government had to get involved before they admitted that consumer information was stolen when PSN got hacked. It went on for over a weak before they finally came clean and original they said no data was stolen. So why aren't you idiots holding Sony accountable as well. Makes me laugh how you take one side as being perfect when they have f-up many times before Microsoft did. Let's just trust Sony. lmao!! Both companies have been mistakes.

Avatar image for SolidTy
#85 Edited by SolidTy (49946 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@SolidTy said:

That article is insightful on Spencer. He doesn't blame the anti-consumer DRM but how it was communicated. I think there is middle ground for both the message and the actual DRM being the problem.

In any event, it seems that Spencer (who's been promoted as Xbox Head) is keen on trying that DRM approach again in the future. Maybe roll it out slowly this time.

It's pretty much because MS looked at Steam and thought they could do it with consoles. They even admitted it. That's what the original X1 business model was, Steam without the sales and with all this media functionality, but that's the thing, steam DOES not work without the sales, people think they do the sales out of the goodness of their hearts, they don't. Without sales, there is no way people accept DRM.

That's what they mean with the message. It's not simple, which is the problem. When you're selling something, you need to communicate quickly. There is no way to do that when most of the services aren't even ready to be demonstrated because they're being rushed to market. I'm convinced the X1 was rushed to market a full year before it was realistically ready. It went from barebones to adequate. Software is still no where near ready, games, DX12, example uses of the cloud, none of it is ready.

I honestly don't think MS will dare try to rollout a Steam approach on consoles again anytime soon no matter what. It's just way too much of a business risk given the backlash they got this time. If they do that again they'll just lose more and more ground.

I didn't mention soon, I said roll it out slowly.

I wasn't specific on how slow but I'm talking the long haul, especially looking at next generation's Xbox 4 and perhaps the tale end of this generation. Another way of herding the proles / pushing the masses in the direction of DRM acceptance would be with actual game design. For example, if we as gamers start to see many more games designed like Titanfall (requiring Online and Xbox Live Gold), online only game design over time could push the masses towards online only DRM with the Xbox 4, and perhaps with select games on Xbone. With Spencer's new promotion as Head of Xbox, we'll see how this plays out over the course of the Xbone and especially the Xbox 4.

Regarding the Steam comparison, I've said the same thing in the past, I agree there.

This is speculation is partially based on reading the actual interview where Spencer lays the blame on the communication, not the actual anti-consumer DRM. This interview was enlightening and with his new found powers as Head of Xbox, we'll see what he does with the Xbox 4.

Long story short, we'll have to see and revisit this in many years to see what Spencer does. In the meantime, they aren't going to do it anytime soon because right now it's damage control and PR time, it's time to sway the masses to hop on board the Xbone train. They can't afford to push that vision short term which I knew and why I said slowly. Right now it's crucial to get as many Xbones in homes as possible and generate as much good PR as possible. The Xbone is released, but the Xbox 4's design is up in the air.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#86 Posted by cainetao11 (29728 posts) -

TC, you are about as impartial as Major Nelson. But I can kind of understand in his case, MS pays his bills via salary. You're just a fanboy

Avatar image for Alucard_Prime
#87 Edited by Alucard_Prime (7512 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncher said:

Here we go again.

Today during a PAX East panel called Console Launches: A Post Mortem, Microsoft's Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb acknowledged that it was a real challenge getting the Xbox One message across last summer when the console was originally announced.

The Xbox One was "very complex to explain" to consumers, Hryb said. He went on to explain that when you're marketing a product, whether it's an Xbox One or a phone or even a stapler, you need to be very clear to the customer about why they need the product in question.

For the Xbox One, "It was definitely a challenge" in getting that message across, Hryb said. Presumably, Microsoft thinks it has improved its Xbox One messaging to date, but Hryb did not say one way or the other.

And then he had a little tantrum about the PS4 lineup. Because you know, these guys, so humble now.

Between this and Phil Sphincter's "We didn't completely communicate it the right way; some of the decisions maybe didn't land" the other day we're looking at that lurvely disc-based always-online DRM making its triumphant return. Anything you want to add, Phil?

Phil? You're looking a bit sick there.

hehe, you really despise anything Xbox or Microsoft related don't you? Myself, I focus on the things I do like, not the other way around. Those guys are not Microsoft, they are its employees. They have jobs to do, and they are not accountable for everything that the company decides to do. I'm sure they might disagree with some of the things MS does, but they cannot go out in public and say that, seeing as how they work for the company(you would know what I mean if you ever worked for a company).

Posting pics like that and inlusting a man you never met in your life, just shows immaturity in your way of thinking, no offense.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#88 Posted by cainetao11 (29728 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@WilliamRLBaker said:

lol your trying to argue logically with shew that's not possible, Mind you If tomorrow sony came out with an aggressive drm plan and literally said in 15 years we will shut down the servers nixing the games ability to play he would be all for it make up weird scenarios where its only right for the gamer and the best option for the companies because than those users can spend their time buying the new system and games instead of playing the old.

99% of sheen's you can make one logical argument In any scenario Sony=good Microsoft=bad even then they do the exact same thing.

And this is why you are known as a window licker. If Sony announced that, I would put a Youtube video of me smashing the PS4 with a sledgehammer and urge SW to do the same. It's hard for a fanboy like you to wrap your head around this, but brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty is the dumbest shit you can possibly be capable of. Don't accuse me of that shit. You have exactly no evidence that I would do that.

On the contrary, I would pick up a WiiU immediately, although I plan on picking one up after E3.

You two fellas' exchanges has become one of my favorite spectator sports.

Avatar image for HalcyonScarlet
#89 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (7493 posts) -

@SolidTy said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

@SolidTy said:

That article is insightful on Spencer. He doesn't blame the anti-consumer DRM but how it was communicated. I think there is middle ground for both the message and the actual DRM being the problem.

In any event, it seems that Spencer (who's been promoted as Xbox Head) is keen on trying that DRM approach again in the future. Maybe roll it out slowly this time.

It's pretty much because MS looked at Steam and thought they could do it with consoles. They even admitted it. That's what the original X1 business model was, Steam without the sales and with all this media functionality, but that's the thing, steam DOES not work without the sales, people think they do the sales out of the goodness of their hearts, they don't. Without sales, there is no way people accept DRM.

That's what they mean with the message. It's not simple, which is the problem. When you're selling something, you need to communicate quickly. There is no way to do that when most of the services aren't even ready to be demonstrated because they're being rushed to market. I'm convinced the X1 was rushed to market a full year before it was realistically ready. It went from barebones to adequate. Software is still no where near ready, games, DX12, example uses of the cloud, none of it is ready.

I honestly don't think MS will dare try to rollout a Steam approach on consoles again anytime soon no matter what. It's just way too much of a business risk given the backlash they got this time. If they do that again they'll just lose more and more ground.

I didn't mention soon, I said roll it out slowly.

I wasn't specific on how slow but I'm talking the long haul, especially looking at next generation's Xbox 4 and perhaps the tale end of this generation. Another way of herding the proles / pushing the masses in the direction of DRM acceptance would be with actual game design. For example, if we as gamers start to see many more games designed like Titanfall (requiring Online and Xbox Live Gold), online only game design over time could push the masses towards online only DRM with the Xbox 4, and perhaps with select games on Xbone. With Spencer's new promotion as Head of Xbox, we'll see how this plays out over the course of the Xbone and especially the Xbox 4.

Regarding the Steam comparison, I've said the same thing in the past, I agree there.

This is speculation is partially based on reading the actual interview where Spencer lays the blame on the communication, not the actual anti-consumer DRM. This interview was enlightening and with his new found powers as Head of Xbox, we'll see what he does with the Xbox 4.

Long story short, we'll have to see and revisit this in many years to see what Spencer does. In the meantime, they aren't going to do it anytime soon because right now it's damage control and PR time, it's time to sway the masses to hop on board the Xbone train. They can't afford to push that vision short term which I knew and why I said slowly. Right now it's crucial to get as many Xbones in homes as possible and generate as much good PR as possible. The Xbone is released, but the Xbox 4's design is up in the air.

But does anyone want to admit they were wrong. If they blame communication, they're not being overly negative about themselves. Nintendo blames the Wii Us problems on communication publically, but I haven't got the time and patience to list all the internal and external problems they have which led to the position the Wii U is in, suffice to say communication is closer to the bottom of that list.

And when I said 'anytime soon', I meant anytime with in the next gen or two. I think it would take serious balls to try that again even next gen. But we will see.

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#90 Posted by WitIsWisdom (4489 posts) -

So he likens the X1 to a stapler huh?

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#91 Edited by MlauTheDaft (5189 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

@always_explicit said:

The rules were simple. I dont want to speak for your intellectual capacity because its hard to estimate how far into your teens you actually are by your post style. The issue was that there were some rules! not their complexity. Its difficult to explain rules through marketing...people want to see the fun bits. However the fun bits were there. The family sharing plan for example, would have been an amazing feature, unfortunately the online check in required to ensure it was not abused was what the media chose to latch on to instead VIA the DRM buzzword.

People just latched on to DRM and the whole "your just renting games you dont even own them" crap and it spiraled out of control. So then it wasnt just a handful of 360 owners who were potentially annoyed, it was anybody who owned a PC and games with poorly made DRM software that made their computer slow, anyone with games with limited installs. Actually a lot of people who were not gamers added their "its about your freedom" opinions to the mixing pot. All of this happened without MS actually explaining how all of this stuff was going to work. Which IS inexcusable.

However criticizing them for trying to change just isnt fair so early on.

Really, you don't remember the fallout on the web over Diablo III being DRMed or the latest Sims release being completely plagued with problems because of it's always-on DRM? What about Ubisoft having to go so far as to strip the DRM out of its PC games because of the fallout? Time and time again, we were shown precisely why online-DRM was a HORRIBLE idea.

You know what, nevermind even that shit. Let's talk about Titanfall launch day for a second. You would be content with owning a fucking brick of a console because Lives servers being crashed every time a big game launched? What if you didn't even want to play TF or Halo 5 or whatever? MS was saying "**** you" and you want to say the Family Plan makes up for that? Again, that is some serious Grade A fangirl shit bro.

And it's still bullshit. I love Diablo 3 but having their deployment model kill off your Harcore characters is fucking infuriating.

Imagine having spent 100+ hours on your character only to have it wiped out by unstable servers... Let's just say I have'nt been playing hardcore since ROS was released.

Edit:

I found it equal parts hillarious and sad that we keep droning on about "communication". It was the intent that pissed people off and now certain ones actually believe this PR nonsense.