JRPG vs WRPG - Which are better?

So basically, the fight is Final Fantasy against KOTOR/Oblivion? Or Square against Bethesda/Bioware? I never liked WRPGs, they tend to be drier and more sterile, free of humanity and passion. On the other hand, I love Final Fantasy and Demon's Souls is great as well. So JRPGs for me.get-ka12

Teh passionz! :P Teh humanity! :P

Next thing you'll say is that Final Fantasy makes you reflect on the choices you make. :P

Ahh but then again...You don't really have the chance to make much choices.

Is this argument still going on? Both genres have their own merits and it seems unfair to disregard either.

WRPGs may be winning, but when a high quality JRPG like Final Fantasy comes out, it's usually incredible. FF13 will be the next big one. FFX was amazing back in 2001. FFX-2, I didn't play, but I heard was alright. Then FF12 was hit and miss with some. I personally enjoyed the huge free roam gameplay and combat with gambit system. The music in this game was absolutely terrible in comparison with the epicness of FFX's soundtrack. FF13 is going to be an outstanding game, no doubt. I have a feeling though that these reviews are going to start taking points away because FF13 isn't as open world as other RPGs, which would be dumb. I think that FF13 is going to feel like FF7 in terms of open worldness. You'll be able to travel to different locations in the world, and not be obligated go to every city in those two worlds (or w/e they refer them to). That would be open world enough for me and wouldn't be as boring as these open world WRPGs when you just sometimes walk around doing nothing.

[QUOTE="get-ka12"]So basically, the fight is Final Fantasy against KOTOR/Oblivion? Or Square against Bethesda/Bioware? I never liked WRPGs, they tend to be drier and more sterile, free of humanity and passion. On the other hand, I love Final Fantasy and Demon's Souls is great as well. So JRPGs for me.tagyhag

Teh passionz! :P Teh humanity! :P

Next thing you'll say is that Final Fantasy makes you reflect on the choices you make. :P

Ahh but then again...You don't really have the chance to make much choices.

Yes, I love the option to make so many random choices while in a world where I have to read a page of text everytime I talk to a person who is voice-acted by one of three real-life people. Sounds so much fun. I don't needpassion and humanity. I'm a robot anyway. What's this human, art, and beauty business?:roll:

:P

I happen to love the love story between Yuna and Tidus. And Yuna is DAMN HOT.

and yes, this is essentially

Final Fantasy 13 vs. Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, etc.

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]

[QUOTE="get-ka12"]So basically, the fight is Final Fantasy against KOTOR/Oblivion? Or Square against Bethesda/Bioware? I never liked WRPGs, they tend to be drier and more sterile, free of humanity and passion. On the other hand, I love Final Fantasy and Demon's Souls is great as well. So JRPGs for me.get-ka12

Teh passionz! :P Teh humanity! :P

Next thing you'll say is that Final Fantasy makes you reflect on the choices you make. :P

Ahh but then again...You don't really have the chance to make much choices.

Yes, I love the option to make so many random choices while in a world where I have to read a page of text everytime I talk to a person who is voice-acted by one of three real-life people. Sounds so much fun. I don't needpassion and humanity. I'm a robot anyway. What's this human, art, and beauty business?:roll:

:P

Exactly, people call that kind of crap engrossing and really pulling you in. Give me a break. When I played FFX back in the day, though it was linear, it was a really a game driven by the story and characters. The whole story around Sin Yu Yevon, and each other characters roles, how Spira runs and operates, and other factors like the individual locales in the story made the game very interesting and overall beautiful.

and yes, this is essentially

Final Fantasy 13 vs. Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, etc.

mD-

Square Enix versus Bioware/Bethesda, basically. (in a nutshell)

[QUOTE="mD-"]

and yes, this is essentially

Final Fantasy 13 vs. Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, etc.

get-ka12

Square Enix versus Bioware/Bethesda, basically. (in a nutshell)

[QUOTE="mD-"]

and yes, this is essentially

Final Fantasy 13 vs. Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, etc.

Square Enix versus Bioware/Bethesda, basically. (in a nutshell)

[QUOTE="get-ka12"]

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]

Teh passionz! :P Teh humanity! :P

Next thing you'll say is that Final Fantasy makes you reflect on the choices you make. :P

Ahh but then again...You don't really have the chance to make much choices.

mD-

Yes, I love the option to make so many random choices while in a world where I have to read a page of text everytime I talk to a person who is voice-acted by one of three real-life people. Sounds so much fun. I don't needpassion and humanity. I'm a robot anyway. What's this human, art, and beauty business?:roll:

:P

Exactly, people call that kind of crap engrossing and really pulling you in. Give me a break. When I played FFX back in the day, though it was linear, it was a really a game driven by the story and characters. The whole story around Sin Yu Yevon, and each other characters roles, how Spira runs and operates, and other factors like the individual locales in the story made the game very interesting and overall beautiful.

I don't understand, saying that FFX has a good story and characters is like saying Naruto has a good story and characters, it may look like that if you've never watched GOOD animes, but in reality it's not.

All you saying that JRPGs have better told stories...you're wrong. They are told in a more linear fashion. Until Final Fantasy VI in 1994, WRPGs had better stories. Ultima IV in 1985 still has concepts that are still amazing to this day (like no villain, the story is all about you)and IV-VII all have excellent stories, especially the two parts of Ultima VII. Betrayal at Krondor, excellent narrative driven WRPG, released in 1993. After FFVI and Chrono Trigger, WRPGs began telling better stories again, Betrayal in Antara (great story, mediocre game), Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2 (yes they had great writing and narratives) and some others. The only JRPGs to tell a great story in the ps1 era: Final Fantasy Tactics, Suikoden II, and Valkyrie Profile, all others are severely flawed. Now this decade is the decade of the WRPG, from Baldur's Gate II to Dragon Age Origins, WRPGs have dominated JRPGs. The only truly great JRPG of this decade is Mother 3, and it isn't even properly released in the US yet.

Used to be JRPG, but this gen's WRPGs (Oblivion, Mass Effect, Fallout 3) have been among my favorites

JRPGs have the levels and the stats, but it strays away from the roots of the genre, by placing you into the boots of a pre-scripted character. Anyone who's played the original PnP RPGs remember what the RPG was all about. The ROLE PLAYING. That is to say, YOU the playing YOUR OWN role within the game universe, not somebody else's creation.

When you were sitting around the table with your friends rolling dice, your choices, actions, and most importantly, behavior, wasn't confined by a character model dictating how you were supposed to act. When you created your character, you didn't simply take the part of "Game Designers Barbarian", that came complete with predesigned psych profile and set of rules as to how he engaged in battle and treated the villagers he came across. You actually created your own original identity and that freed you from any preconceptions. So if you wanted to be noble, or despotic, or gallant, or selfish, or honorable, or brutal... that was all your call to make. And that's how it is in WRPGs, that stay true to the roots of the genre.

Now sure your name might be somewhat predetermined. Like in Mass Effect, you are always Cmdr Shepard. But you are still free to be your own idea of who Shepard is in that galaxy. Your version of Shepard won't be the same as your friend's, or the next guys, as each is sculpted by the choices you make, mainly in how you choose to interact with the people and world around you. In FF7 as an example of JRPGs, you are always Cloud, and you are always constrained to the developers idea of Cloud. The cinematics and the way he interacts with his team mates is determined not by you, but by the developer, so always plays out to the same outcome each time. You have no say in how Cloud's personality, attituide or behavior.

WRPGs actually have the roleplaying, whereas JRPGs don't. That's what makes the western variety better.

i enjoy jrpg's more in general. i feel like wrpg's are often a lot of "ok here's the world, now go try to figure out where to go next to make the story go forward" also i like the cut scenes and the general movie feel of jrpg's.

JRPGs have the levels and the stats, but it strays away from the roots of the genre, by placing you into the boots of a pre-scripted character. Anyone who's played the original PnP RPGs remember what the RPG was all about. The ROLE PLAYING. That is to say, YOU the playing YOUR OWN role within the game universe, not somebody else's creation.

When you were sitting around the table with your friends rolling dice, your choices, actions, and most importantly, behavior, wasn't confined by a character model dictating how you were supposed to act. When you created your character, you didn't simply take the part of "Game Designers Barbarian", that came complete with predesigned psych profile and set of rules as to how he engaged in battle and treated the villagers he came across. You actually created your own original identity and that freed you from any preconceptions. So if you wanted to be noble, or despotic, or gallant, or selfish, or honorable, or brutal... that was all your call to make. And that's how it is in WRPGs, that stay true to the roots of the genre.

Now sure your name might be somewhat predetermined. Like in Mass Effect, you are always Cmdr Shepard. But you are still free to be your own idea of who Shepard is in that galaxy. Your version of Shepard won't be the same as your friend's, or the next guys, as each is sculpted by the choices you make, mainly in how you choose to interact with the people and world around you. In FF7 as an example of JRPGs, you are always Cloud, and you are always constrained to the developers idea of Cloud. The cinematics and the way he interacts with his team mates is determined not by you, but by the developer, so always plays out to the same outcome each time. You have no say in how Cloud's personality, attituide or behavior.

WRPGs actually have the roleplaying, whereas JRPGs don't. That's what makes the western variety better.

AdobeArtist

I would say the term roleplaying changes per the sub-genre, unless early CRPGs aren't really RPGs because there is no real "roleplaying".

WRPGs actually have the roleplaying, whereas JRPGs don't. That's what makes the western variety better.

AdobeArtist

being a kid who grew up on D&D i have to disagree, while wrpg's are more open ended that is something that makes them a little less "role play-ish" you can't actually doeverything you want to, you can to a degree but i'm pretty sure that no matter how much i play oblivion i'm not going to be able to polymorph into a dragon and recruit other dragons to help me destroy a town. wrpg's are more open ended, but i feel that can be a detriment to the story sometimes. while its cool to have a story given to you via dialogue in first person, to me personally afterwhile that starts to drag. i think sometimes a bit more of a cinematic presentation can add alot to the game.

[QUOTE="AdobeArtist"]

JRPGs have the levels and the stats, but it strays away from the roots of the genre, by placing you into the boots of a pre-scripted character. Anyone who's played the original PnP RPGs remember what the RPG was all about. The ROLE PLAYING. That is to say, YOU the playing YOUR OWN role within the game universe, not somebody else's creation.

When you were sitting around the table with your friends rolling dice, your choices, actions, and most importantly, behavior, wasn't confined by a character model dictating how you were supposed to act. When you created your character, you didn't simply take the part of "Game Designers Barbarian", that came complete with predesigned psych profile and set of rules as to how he engaged in battle and treated the villagers he came across. You actually created your own original identity and that freed you from any preconceptions. So if you wanted to be noble, or despotic, or gallant, or selfish, or honorable, or brutal... that was all your call to make. And that's how it is in WRPGs, that stay true to the roots of the genre.

Now sure your name might be somewhat predetermined. Like in Mass Effect, you are always Cmdr Shepard. But you are still free to be your own idea of who Shepard is in that galaxy. Your version of Shepard won't be the same as your friend's, or the next guys, as each is sculpted by the choices you make, mainly in how you choose to interact with the people and world around you. In FF7 as an example of JRPGs, you are always Cloud, and you are always constrained to the developers idea of Cloud. The cinematics and the way he interacts with his team mates is determined not by you, but by the developer, so always plays out to the same outcome each time. You have no say in how Cloud's personality, attituide or behavior.

WRPGs actually have the roleplaying, whereas JRPGs don't. That's what makes the western variety better.

Yandere

I would say the term roleplaying changes per the sub-genre, unless early CRPGs aren't really RPGs because there is no real "roleplaying".

OK. Now from a purely game mechanic stand point, most any game that is story driven and implements stats and levels IS an RPG. I'm not disputing that the eastern games are RPGs. But from a qualitative stand point, how WRPGs more closely emulates its PnP progenitor (as I outlined previously), is what makes them the far better RPGs, for actually keeping to the original concept of what the gameplay is about.

JRPGs are garbage for stunted adolescents. They are silly at almost every level. The fact that the majority of JRPGs have you playing as a SET CHARACTER just goes to show Japan lost the whole point of ROLE PLAYING games. Demon Souls is a pleasant surprise amongst the anime-drivel coming out of Japan. And that's about it.beekayjay

Getting a little elitist now aren't we?

[QUOTE="beekayjay"]JRPGs are garbage for stunted adolescents. They are silly at almost every level. The fact that the majority of JRPGs have you playing as a SET CHARACTER just goes to show Japan lost the whole point of ROLE PLAYING games. Demon Souls is a pleasant surprise amongst the anime-drivel coming out of Japan. And that's about it.Yandere

Getting a little elitist now aren't we?

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

[QUOTE="beekayjay"]JRPGs are garbage for stunted adolescents. They are silly at almost every level. The fact that the majority of JRPGs have you playing as a SET CHARACTER just goes to show Japan lost the whole point of ROLE PLAYING games. Demon Souls is a pleasant surprise amongst the anime-drivel coming out of Japan. And that's about it.beekayjay

Getting a little elitist now aren't we?

No, that has nothing to do about it.

I like both but nothing beats

DISGAEA 3

I like both but nothing beats

DISGAEA 3

Megaman5364

True, Tactical RPGs really help me like JRPGs more.

[QUOTE="beekayjay"][QUOTE="Yandere"]

Getting a little elitist now aren't we?

No, that has nothing to do about it.

All you saying that JRPGs have better told stories...you're wrong. They are told in a more linear fashion. Until Final Fantasy VI in 1994, WRPGs had better stories. Ultima IV in 1985 still has concepts that are still amazing to this day (like no villain, the story is all about you)and IV-VII all have excellent stories, especially the two parts of Ultima VII. Betrayal at Krondor, excellent narrative driven WRPG, released in 1993. After FFVI and Chrono Trigger, WRPGs began telling better stories again, Betrayal in Antara (great story, mediocre game), Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2 (yes they had great writing and narratives) and some others. The only JRPGs to tell a great story in the ps1 era: Final Fantasy Tactics, Suikoden II, and Valkyrie Profile, all others are severely flawed. Now this decade is the decade of the WRPG, from Baldur's Gate II to Dragon Age Origins, WRPGs have dominated JRPGs. The only truly great JRPG of this decade is Mother 3, and it isn't even properly released in the US yet.

texasgoldrush

I'm playing Suikoden II. It's not that great. Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy IX, Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Persona, and Persona 2 Innocent Sin all had great stories in the PS1 era. Probably better than Suikoden II, except maybe Final Fantasy VII and Persona.

Final Fantasy X (watching the Japanese cutscene just before Yuna and Tidus have sex recently made me realize just how carefully thought out the scenes and characters were), Xenosaga Ep. I, II, III, Suikoden III (which imo, is better than Suikoden II so far), etc for the PS2 era.

Final Fantasy XIII and End of Eternity are looking superb in this era, although there seem to be a greater number of great WRPGs (considering up until these two titles there's been pretty much nothing worth mentioning).

Linear =/= bad. Nonlinear =/= good. There's no reason why JRPGs need to be nonlinear. There's no reason for you to go anywhere else but the land of the ancients when Aerith takes off. There's no where else you should go when you're supposed to assassinate the sorceress in VIII. There's no where else you should go when the path to Old Miltia opens in Xenosaga Ep. II. Sure you may have sidequests, but it just doesn't make any sense to provide a non linear storyline in these games.

JRPGs have the levels and the stats, but it strays away from the roots of the genre, by placing you into the boots of a pre-scripted character. Anyone who's played the original PnP RPGs remember what the RPG was all about. The ROLE PLAYING. That is to say, YOU the playing YOUR OWN role within the game universe, not somebody else's creation.

When you were sitting around the table with your friends rolling dice, your choices, actions, and most importantly, behavior, wasn't confined by a character model dictating how you were supposed to act. When you created your character, you didn't simply take the part of "Game Designers Barbarian", that came complete with predesigned psych profile and set of rules as to how he engaged in battle and treated the villagers he came across. You actually created your own original identity and that freed you from any preconceptions. So if you wanted to be noble, or despotic, or gallant, or selfish, or honorable, or brutal... that was all your call to make. And that's how it is in WRPGs, that stay true to the roots of the genre.

Now sure your name might be somewhat predetermined. Like in Mass Effect, you are always Cmdr Shepard. But you are still free to be your own idea of who Shepard is in that galaxy. Your version of Shepard won't be the same as your friend's, or the next guys, as each is sculpted by the choices you make, mainly in how you choose to interact with the people and world around you. In FF7 as an example of JRPGs, you are always Cloud, and you are always constrained to the developers idea of Cloud. The cinematics and the way he interacts with his team mates is determined not by you, but by the developer, so always plays out to the same outcome each time. You have no say in how Cloud's personality, attituide or behavior.

WRPGs actually have the roleplaying, whereas JRPGs don't. That's what makes the western variety better.

AdobeArtist

That makes the term "RPG" more accurate when describing WRPGs, but it doesn't mean JRPGs are any worse for telling linear stories.

I play more Wrpg's than Jrpg's though I have loved many jrpg's ( final fantasy mostly). I think both are great but I would definitely pick WRPG if I had to pick one.

I like both but nothing beats

DISGAEA 3

Megaman5364

That makes the term "RPG" more accurate when describing WRPGs, but it doesn't mean JRPGs are any worse for telling linear stories.

hakanakumono

It's nothing bad, it's simply a side effect of the fact that japanese devs never learned how to make adventure game. The genre was all rage in west, particularly in computer games. And it's a genre far more suited for telling good stories than either wrpg or jrpgs ever could. So western devs who wanted to primarly tell stories went for adventure genre, since the genre never took off in japan, devs from there simply made jRPGs into their main storytelling genre. That;s all, wRPGs never had to push themselves to hard to excel at storytelling, that's what adventure games were for

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

That makes the term "RPG" more accurate when describing WRPGs, but it doesn't mean JRPGs are any worse for telling linear stories.

AdrianWerner

It's nothing bad, it's simply a side effect of the fact that japanese devs never learned how to make adventure game. The genre was all rage in west, particularly in computer games. And it's a genre far more suited for telling good stories than either wrpg or jrpgs ever could. So western devs who wanted to primarly tell stories went for adventure genre, since the genre never took off in japan, devs from there simply made jRPGs into their main storytelling genre. That;s all, wRPGs never had to push themselves to hard to excel at storytelling, that's what adventure games were for

[QUOTE="Megaman5364"]

I like both but nothing beats

DISGAEA 3

sonicthemegaman

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

That makes the term "RPG" more accurate when describing WRPGs, but it doesn't mean JRPGs are any worse for telling linear stories.

AdrianWerner

It's nothing bad, it's simply a side effect of the fact that japanese devs never learned how to make adventure game. The genre was all rage in west, particularly in computer games. And it's a genre far more suited for telling good stories than either wrpg or jrpgs ever could. So western devs who wanted to primarly tell stories went for adventure genre, since the genre never took off in japan, devs from there simply made jRPGs into their main storytelling genre. That;s all, wRPGs never had to push themselves to hard to excel at storytelling, that's what adventure games were for

there's a *few* adventure games from japan worth playing like Policenauts and Snatcher, both made by Hideo Kojima.And people seem to like those Pheonix Wright games and they' could be considered Adventure I guess.

but yeah I agree,the genre is more acknowledged in the west though.

neither....single player RPG is boring...MMORPG rules

neither....single player RPG is boring...MMORPG rules

oajlu

There are not enough tears to express the downfall of humanity over this statement :(