John Carmack:You need a 3.68 Teraflop GPU to match PS4's GPU

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DrTrafalgarLaw

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#1 DrTrafalgarLaw
Member since 2011 • 4487 Posts


This topic may be old but I want to reiterate on wasdie's beautiful post that PC's have a lot of bullshit overhead to deal with so they gimp their games to the lowest specs. From the legend Carmack himself. Hermits lining up for a Titan as we speak.

Now this "My PC is better" bullshit can rest, unless you own a Titan.

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Sweenix

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#2 Sweenix
Member since 2013 • 5957 Posts

i own a titan, and my pc is better

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mastershake575

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#3 mastershake575
Member since 2007 • 8564 Posts

What a complete joke. My 8600GTS of last generation was basically a 7800 with unified shaders and I ran most games better than the consoles (and this was with the consoles NOT using pc architecture like they are this generation......).

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Sweenix

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#4 Sweenix
Member since 2013 • 5957 Posts

just kidding, i have a hp :(

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blue_hazy_basic

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#5 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30848 Posts
Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?
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stizzal13

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#6 stizzal13
Member since 2013 • 609 Posts

Go home John. You're drunk.

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Shewgenja

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#7 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

What a complete joke. My 8600GTS of last generation was basically a 7800 with unified shaders and I ran most games better than the consoles (and this was with the consoles NOT using pc architecture like they are this generation......).

mastershake575
I was fairly certain that NVidia's first unified pipeline was in the 200 series.
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DrTrafalgarLaw

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#8 DrTrafalgarLaw
Member since 2011 • 4487 Posts

Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?blue_hazy_basic
am I claiming to end the PC? I'm putting things in perspective for the PC:console 1:1 comparisons. Fixed specs will always win in efficiency.

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deactivated-5d7fb49ded561

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#9 deactivated-5d7fb49ded561
Member since 2010 • 4019 Posts

Ouch, poor Hermits, none of them have a titan here

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blue_hazy_basic

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#10 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30848 Posts

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?DrTrafalgarLaw

am I claiming to end the PC? I'm putting things in perspective for the PC:console 1:1 comparisons. Fixed specs will always win in efficiency.

Agreed, but to claim that a titan is necessary for a PC games to equal a PS4? I'll wait for the proof in the pudding for that.
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ronvalencia

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#11 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28256 Posts


This topic may be old but I want to reiterate on wasdie's beautiful post that PC's have a lot of bullshit overhead to deal with so they gimp their games to the lowest specs. From the legend Carmack himself. Hermits lining up for a Titan as we speak.

Now this "My PC is better" bullshit can rest, unless you own a Titan.

DrTrafalgarLaw
Radeon HD 6470M (with about 240 GFLOPS) runs like Xbox 360's Xenos GPU (with 240 GFLOPS).
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mastershake575

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#12 mastershake575
Member since 2007 • 8564 Posts

I was fairly certain that NVidia's first unified pipeline was in the 200 series.Shewgenja
The 8000 series was the first unified shader architecture

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#13 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

and how long will it be before we see them actually come to fruition? 

Consoles are more optimised but launch games always look crap compared to later on so it's still really early days yet

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deactivated-5c8ff6a32bb23

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#14 deactivated-5c8ff6a32bb23
Member since 2012 • 3185 Posts
My PC is better. I said it :)
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campzor

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#15 campzor
Member since 2004 • 34932 Posts
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?

it did at least 2 of those things!
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Wiimotefan

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#16 Wiimotefan
Member since 2010 • 4150 Posts

Consoles will never be on top.  Even if they are it will be for only a brief amount of time.

I don't really see the issue either.  You get a great amount of value from a console.  You pay a relatively small fee for years of standardized optimized games.  Consoles aren't meant to beat out the best gaming rigs.

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#17 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

Ouch, poor Hermits, none of them have a titan here

Davekeeh

FaustArp has 2

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mastershake575

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#18 mastershake575
Member since 2007 • 8564 Posts
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] Agreed, but to claim that a titan is necessary for a PC games to equal a PS4? I'll wait for the proof in the pudding for that.

You'll never get proof on that (since its not true). My 8600GTS ran games better than the consoles and it wasn't much faster than the consoles GPU (it was basically a 7800 with added unified shaders). Theres no way that a console thats PC based (this generation) will get worse optimization last gen
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Indicud

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#19 Indicud
Member since 2013 • 745 Posts

This is common knowledge TC.

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04dcarraher

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#20 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23266 Posts
[QUOTE="mastershake575"]

What a complete joke. My 8600GTS of last generation was basically a 7800 with unified shaders and I ran most games better than the consoles (and this was with the consoles NOT using pc architecture like they are this generation......).

Shewgenja
I was fairly certain that NVidia's first unified pipeline was in the 200 series.

Nope Geforce 8 series were
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clyde46

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#22 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
[QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?

it did at least 2 of those things!

Folding at home? The PS3 was either badly under-powered or had a very bad points allocation because my E7300 Dual Core got more PPD than a PS3.
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04dcarraher

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#23 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23266 Posts


This topic may be old but I want to reiterate on wasdie's beautiful post that PC's have a lot of bullshit overhead to deal with so they gimp their games to the lowest specs. From the legend Carmack himself. Hermits lining up for a Titan as we speak.

Now this "My PC is better" bullshit can rest, unless you own a Titan.

DrTrafalgarLaw

BS, and old and out of date. Also for you to understand all overhead like what wasdie was talking about is all handled by the cpu not gpu which means that you only need a good cpu to take up the slack, The cpu coming out in these next set of consoles are weak, the X1 is only going to use 6 of the 8 cores for games which makes it even less able then the PS4. The 8 core jaguar at 1.6 ghz is as slow or slower then AMD's Athlon X4 640

John Carmack was talking about one set console hardware with their tweaked API vs the old direct x 9. Also explain the fact that a Geforce 8800 being only to do max of 504 GFLOPSis able to perform 2-3x faster then the 360 and to the fact run games with higher resolutions and graphical setting including AA.... Heck even the slower and weaker gpu like the 8600GTS matched and surpassed in many cases vs 360 and its only 140 GFLOPS.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6183499/p-4.html

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6183967/p-4.html

 

Now lets fast forward to 2013 the next set of consoles are using x86 based  cpu's with same API as Pc's the magic of optimization will be  slight  this time around.

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stizzal13

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#24 stizzal13
Member since 2013 • 609 Posts

I am very confident that my 6870, 12 gbs of ram, and i7 3770 will do fine in the next gen, especially after seeing in-game pics/footage of Killzone, Dead Rising 3, Ryse, 1800 something, Knack, and infamous.

 However, I will still consider upgrading when AMD releases its next card lineup. 

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#25 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70104 Posts

Ouch, poor Hermits, none of them have a titan here

Davekeeh

consolite graphics whores confirmed?

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ronvalencia

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#26 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28256 Posts
[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?

it did at least 2 of those things!

Folding at home? The PS3 was either badly under-powered or had a very bad points allocation because my E7300 Dual Core got more PPD than a PS3.

PC CPU has greater workload type and better FP accuracy.
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GioVela2010

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#27 GioVela2010
Member since 2008 • 5566 Posts
ITT hermits pretend to know more than John Carmack
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GioVela2010

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#28 GioVela2010
Member since 2008 • 5566 Posts

What a complete joke. My 8600GTS of last generation was basically a 7800 with unified shaders and I ran most games better than the consoles (and this was with the consoles NOT using pc architecture like they are this generation......).

mastershake575
Sorry but no PC game with a 8600GTS looked as good as Halo 4, Uncharted 2, or MGS4
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#29 Gargus
Member since 2006 • 2147 Posts

Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?blue_hazy_basic

That was just fanboy hype stated by people who could think no further than "OMG PLAYSTATION IS THE AWSOMEST EVAH!!!!". Every fanboy of a PC or a console always hail whats new as the end of everything every time.

I will trust carmack though. He may not make the best games anymore but he is a hardware and especially software master. Jesus I tore apart the code for doom3 and Id never seen coding so insanely organized and detailed in my life. If there is one person who knows how gaming truly works from behind the scenes its him considering he has designed games, designed engines, worked as a developer and been in the business since it first really got going its him.

But in the way it works a console is vastly superior for gaming because it is what it is designed to do. PC are more powerful but their architecture is an open platform designed to do as much as possible thus a lot of it is wasted and under utilized when it comes to gaming. Thats why you need so much power to run a game is because of the PC terrible inefficiency. Diablo 3 for instance has minimum specs to run properly with 1gb of ram, pentium d 2.8ghz cpu, and geforce 7800 while the PS3 version coming soon runs on far far less than those minimum pc specs. Now granted it wont look quite as pretty, but it wont be much different than the PC version with those specs and a mid range resolution. Current gen consoles can play games with good results on their very weak hardware while getting the same results on a PC require a lot more hardware.

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AmazonTreeBoa

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#30 AmazonTreeBoa
Member since 2011 • 16745 Posts
:lol: at anybody that believes this crap.
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Midnightshade29

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#31 Midnightshade29
Member since 2008 • 6003 Posts


This topic may be old but I want to reiterate on wasdie's beautiful post that PC's have a lot of bullshit overhead to deal with so they gimp their games to the lowest specs. From the legend Carmack himself. Hermits lining up for a Titan as we speak.

Now this "My PC is better" bullshit can rest, unless you own a Titan.

DrTrafalgarLaw
Where is the quote from your Title TC? I don't see that at all in the OP , Source? LINK? I want to read the article not see your speculation or made of crap.. all I see is one twitter post and no source,. Although , I do believe a console could do more than an equivalent gpu on the pc, but not by that much. Due to the overhead and optimizations... The Last of Us, shows us that, but there was still bottlencks limiting Resolution and AA this gen, mostly ram and fill rate.
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#32 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
[QUOTE="mastershake575"]

What a complete joke. My 8600GTS of last generation was basically a 7800 with unified shaders and I ran most games better than the consoles (and this was with the consoles NOT using pc architecture like they are this generation......).

GioVela2010
Sorry but no PC game with a 8600GTS looked as good as Halo 4, Uncharted 2, or MGS4

Why should I gimp myself with pre-2006 hardware?
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ManatuBeard

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#33 ManatuBeard
Member since 2012 • 1121 Posts

The creator of Metro LL said the same thing already.

A console is twice as powerful as a pc using the same hardware because of low lvl APIs, no big amount of background processes fighting for resources and single CPU/GPU optimizations.

But that is common sense since more power can be taken from hardware in a closed circuit, nothing new and since modern PCs are more powerful (in hardware specs) than consoles, ends up being something that can never be truly measured.

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TheFadeForever

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#34 TheFadeForever
Member since 2013 • 2655 Posts

I guess you cearly don't get what he meant

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E1rvJAMC78

 

Crysis being played on a PC with similar GPU to current gen console yet the console version doesn't look as good where the optimization :lol:

 

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04dcarraher

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#35 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23266 Posts
[QUOTE="GioVela2010"][QUOTE="mastershake575"]

What a complete joke. My 8600GTS of last generation was basically a 7800 with unified shaders and I ran most games better than the consoles (and this was with the consoles NOT using pc architecture like they are this generation......).

clyde46
Sorry but no PC game with a 8600GTS looked as good as Halo 4, Uncharted 2, or MGS4

Why should I gimp myself with pre-2006 hardware?

lol even so if we were stuck with a 8600GTS and if those games came to pc it would look better on the 8600GTS then it would have on the current consoles.
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DrTrafalgarLaw

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#36 DrTrafalgarLaw
Member since 2011 • 4487 Posts
[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="GioVela2010"] Sorry but no PC game with a 8600GTS looked as good as Halo 4, Uncharted 2, or MGS4

Why should I gimp myself with pre-2006 hardware?

lol even so if we were stuck with a 8600GTS and if those games came to pc it would look better on the 8600GTS then it would have on the current consoles.

Hermits losing the ability to coherently type sentences fast.
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GioVela2010

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#37 GioVela2010
Member since 2008 • 5566 Posts
[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="GioVela2010"] Sorry but no PC game with a 8600GTS looked as good as Halo 4, Uncharted 2, or MGS4

Why should I gimp myself with pre-2006 hardware?

lol even so if we were stuck with a 8600GTS and if those games came to pc it would look better on the 8600GTS then it would have on the current consoles.

Not without single spec optimization, try again
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infinite884

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#38 infinite884
Member since 2008 • 701 Posts

kind of think Carmack knows more about GPU's then everyone who claims he's wrong. PC gamers just been owned, just go in the corner and be quiet

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clyde46

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#39 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
[QUOTE="DrTrafalgarLaw"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="clyde46"] Why should I gimp myself with pre-2006 hardware?

lol even so if we were stuck with a 8600GTS and if those games came to pc it would look better on the 8600GTS then it would have on the current consoles.

Hermits losing the ability to coherently type sentences fast.

Not everyone on this board uses English as their first language.
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clyde46

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#40 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

kind of think Carmack knows more about GPU's then everyone who claims he's wrong. PC gamers just been owned, just go in the corner and be quiet

infinite884
Who are you?
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#41 SambaLele
Member since 2004 • 5552 Posts

Lets wait and see huh? :) Remember before the last launch when the cell would end the PC, cure cancer and bring world peace?blue_hazy_basic

 

Wait and see? You're a level 67, you didn't start playing yesterday.

You probably already saw many generations of consoles, and how the hardware ends up being utilized in a much more optmized way than PC hardware.

Like I mentioned in another thread, try to run Bioshock Infinite, with all the features the 360/PS3 have on, on 720p, with a 2005 PC and see what you get.

One guy tried to bring a video of a system with a Intel i5 2430M + Radeon HD 6470M (which is 6 generations ahead of 360's GPU) and still couldn't match it.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29421263/tech-analysis-watch-dogs-on-playstation-4?msg_id=341051738#341051738

 

EDIT: I'm not saying that new consoles are superior to everything that's gonna be on the market for years, only that Carmack is saying the truth. You need a 2x stronger hardware (maybe even more than that) to match consoles.

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Mrmedia01

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#42 Mrmedia01
Member since 2007 • 1917 Posts

John is a smart man. I trust him. Afterall come on he knows more about this stuff than any of us in this forum.

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#43 RR360DD
Member since 2011 • 14099 Posts
ITT: Hermits having a meltdown :cool:
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#44 LordOfPoms
Member since 2013 • 1138 Posts

John is a smart man. I trust him. Afterall come on he knows more about this stuff than any of us in this forum.

Mrmedia01
He's a legend among PC developers and a coding genius. The dude knows his stuff.
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#45 Douevenlift_bro
Member since 2013 • 6804 Posts


This topic may be old but I want to reiterate on wasdie's beautiful post that PC's have a lot of bullshit overhead to deal with so they gimp their games to the lowest specs. From the legend Carmack himself. Hermits lining up for a Titan as we speak.

Now this "My PC is better" bullshit can rest, unless you own a Titan.

DrTrafalgarLaw

Quad FTW

 

Thank you Sony

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04dcarraher

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#46 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23266 Posts

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="clyde46"] Why should I gimp myself with pre-2006 hardware?GioVela2010
lol even so if we were stuck with a 8600GTS and if those games came to pc it would look better on the 8600GTS then it would have on the current consoles.

Not without single spec optimization, try again

O yes that's why pc's with gpu's that just as weak as the 360 is able to get comparable results as it.....

The only console system that actually has optimization you can actually see is the PS4.

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MK-Professor

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#47 MK-Professor
Member since 2009 • 4175 Posts

The fact is that a HD7850 will play multiplats with similar graphics and performance like a ps4.

If you don't believe that you only need to look history, where similar power GPU's perform just like the consoles. (and this time around things are favor the pc side because console will use the same exact architecture)

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clyde46

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#48 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
[QUOTE="Mrmedia01"]

John is a smart man. I trust him. Afterall come on he knows more about this stuff than any of us in this forum.

LordOfPoms
He's a legend among PC developers and a coding genius. The dude knows his stuff.

Shame he hasn't made a good game for a good number of years.
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deactivated-5d7fb49ded561

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#49 deactivated-5d7fb49ded561
Member since 2010 • 4019 Posts

alarm.gif

Hermits in full panic mode, they are so sensitive when it comes to graphics lol

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clyde46

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#50 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

alarm.gif

Hermits in full panic mode, they are so sensitive when it comes to graphics lol

Davekeeh
You know, Cows were also hyper sensitive when TLOU flopped.