@Big_Red_Button said:
You're a born sophist.
Jak 2 and 3 had plenty of platforming but there was so much more than that. The combat mechanics were drastically improved and the difficulty was ramped up very nicely (especially in Jak 2.) The first game's story wasn't terribly compelling but the 2nd and 3rd games managed to wrap it into a surprisingly compelling trilogy.
On a purely mechanical level the 2nd and 3rd games played better in every way, but the art direction was where the games really won out. Jak & Daxter looked nice, no two ways about it, I loved all three of these games. But the art boost into the later games of the series was tremendous.
Ratchet and Clank, has much better weapons. Nobody can deny that; they're the gun games. But the actual quality of the level design, enemies, and basically everything those cool buns are built around just aren't as compelling. The characters fall flat (except for Captain Quark, I love him).
Ultimately they're games that are in totally different places tonally... But I found the entire Jak Trilogy much more compelling to play. Even now a decade later I'll go back to Jak II here and there. Ratchet and Clank just never did it for me.
The Sly Cooper series is orders of magnitude better than them. I'm convinced that the Sucker Punch offices channeled some sort of space radiation that designed fun in its purest form and channeled it into their cartoon animal heist games.
Your go to argument was to downplay instead of articulating why or why not I was incorrect, might want to work on who is working with fallacious arguments, I didn't resort to downplaying your opinion until you gave me the go ahead. On a purely mechanical level it has better combat in the sense that it has more combat, but the first one was basically crash done actually actually well this time. The combat was an after thought as more of the game revolved around naughty dog's brand of platforming, the sequels were shooting games by comparison, as some weird response to how well Ratchet n Clank did, and I had way more fun playing Ratchet n Clank.
Because besides just having more fun guns to use, shooting in that game felt more consistent and precise in comparison. The level design from its lay outs to its enemies felt more accommodating to the combat, and its brand of action platforming worked overall because there was a rhythm to it. Jak 2 and especially 3 were made tedious either through some horrendous check points, the nature of that hubworld, or simply because there shooting engine lacked any of the raw satisfaction you want from a game so heavy on the shooting. An issue that's been a problem for them for a long term.As for enemy designs? Going Commando and Up Your Arsenal actively added enemies that would require you to use specific weapons (so you actually use all of your arsenal) or had enemies that required you to use a few in combination (why that aspect was dropped in future entries is beyond me, but that's modern game design)
Plus the other beef was the originality, Crash might have been original, but after that all Naughty Dog has ever done is take someone elses mechanics and systems (sans Jak 1 which is their own), and make a game out of it; Jak 2 aping the Ratchet games, Uncharted working from Gears and Tomb Raider, and the Last of Us working off things Splinter Cell and Resident Evil with the stuff they were already doing in Uncharted. The whole them being unoriginal thing dates back to the PS2 era at this point.
Were they differently tonally? Sure. Did I like Daxter more than any of the other characters between both franchises? Absolutely. But I give way more of a **** about what I'm playing, not who I am playing as, and Ratchet was smoother as an action game, and that was too much of Jak 2 and 3's makeup for me to ever ignore it. In contrast I dig the shit out of the first game, but **** its sequels.
As for cooper, admittedly I'm fuzzier on that game, but we had already seen Mario 64, 2 Banjo games, at least 2 very good Ape Escape games, Klonoa, Maximo, Sands of Time, and freakin Rayman. If I wanted something creative? Psychonauts was a thing. Calling that first game anything more than fine as a platformer is pushing it, it was outclassed mechanically, to raw content, to even level design.
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