Is Microsoft shooting themselves on the foot with potential Xbox Lockhart?

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sakaiXx

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#1  Edited By sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8065 Posts

I understand they want to flood and capture the market with low priced console that capable of playing next gen games at 1080p but, with that low spec isn't just better to built a cheap PC? I'm sure you can get a beautifully aging AMD Radeon 580 for around $250 right now and total parts for around $400-500 and PC does have gamepass subscription alongside the ever competitive and cheap Steam/EGS/GOG and other online game store.

Idk I just dislike this move, dev should not cater to weak hardware anymore. 2-3 years later some devs will complain about having to develop for weaker hardware hindering the more powerful consoles just like now when dev still have to cater to PS4/Xbone when PS4 Pro and Xbone X exist.

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lundy86_4

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#2 lundy86_4  Online
Member since 2003 • 56002 Posts
@sakaixx said:
isn't just better to built a cheap PC?

Yet, consoles still sell. MS is already catering, as they are releasing games to last gen Xbox consoles, as well as the XSX and possible "Lockhart."

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Archangel3371

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#3 Archangel3371  Online
Member since 2004 • 30712 Posts

No, I don’t think so. Some people just don’t want a PC, myself included, for a variety of reasons. I really don’t think that this Lockhart console of theirs will be an issue for developers. They’ve been developing games for a whole variety of hardware for PCs so making games for two consoles should be a breeze.

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BlackShirt20

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#4 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 1710 Posts

I don’t think anyone really gives a crap.

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hardwenzen

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#5  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 1722 Posts

No. Its most likely gonna be your cod/nfl/fifa/rocket league/fortnite and game pass kind of console. People buying this aren't real gamers.

In fact, its a smart move. Those casuals getting it for, lets say fifa, might get game pass, enjoy some other games that run poorly on their Welfare Box, and decide to get the real thing. Two systems sold to one person. Choice should be available with every console launch.

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Pedro

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#6 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40127 Posts

@sakaixx said:

Idk I just dislike this move, dev should not cater to weak hardware anymore.

That's odd but you are a fan of console gaming. 🤔

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pyro1245

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#7 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 6317 Posts

Most people don't want to build their own PCs.

Also: currently Game Pass has way more games available on console vs PC.

Presumably when you are buying a Series S (we know that's probably what they're going to call it), you will also get Game Pass Ultimate. I have a feeling that will also include XCloud. So maybe you're just streaming 4K content.

Time are changing; you got options now.

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sakaiXx

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#8  Edited By sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8065 Posts

@Pedro said:
@sakaixx said:

Idk I just dislike this move, dev should not cater to weak hardware anymore.

That's odd but you are a fan of console gaming. 🤔

12tflops is not exactly on weak or mid range right now.

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Nirgal

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#9 Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 133 Posts

It depends on how developers support it. If they develop games with that console as one of the priorities it will make the other two consoles games lag behind, but it will be a good console to have. If the developers see it as an afterthought it will not force games to lag behind but it will not be a good console to have as the games will run badly.

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Pedro

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#10 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40127 Posts

@sakaixx said:

12tflops is not exactly on weak or mid range right now.

That is correct but you were fine with consoles weakness for the past 7 years. Why are you concerned now when you weren't before?

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sakaiXx

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#11 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8065 Posts

@Pedro: I don't understand this notion, I love exclusives but you will almost never find me in discussion about fps or whatever seriously (unless I'm poking fun at switch) as even I see console weaknesses. Xbox aiming for low power console for mass market is not something I want to see next gen.

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Pedro

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#12 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40127 Posts

@sakaixx said:

@Pedro: I don't understand this notion, I love exclusives but you will almost never find me in discussion about fps or whatever seriously (unless I'm poking fun at switch) as even I see console weaknesses. Xbox aiming for low power console for mass market is not something I want to see next gen.

You say that you don't discuss fps or whatever seriously but here you are claiming you don't want devs making games for weak hardware despite the fact that console has been weak hardware for years. So, again why is it a concern now?

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Daredevils2k

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#13 Daredevils2k
Member since 2015 • 2359 Posts

What I’m afraid of is that Lockhart is going to hold back the power of the xbsex and ps5, due to developers making games based off the weak console ( Lockhart )

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sakaiXx

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#14 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 8065 Posts

@Pedro: now compared to then, we have a 12tf console which is not weak. A lower spec console may hold back the potential of it is my concern.

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rmpumper

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#15  Edited By rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 1007 Posts

The only potential issue is the raytracing implementation. If the devs decide to make a game without baking any lighting and rely on RT only or don't bother to make environment maps for fake reflections, that would mean that the particular game would not even work on a basic console like XS. But this is higly unlikely for the first 2-3 years of the next gen, so it won't be an issue (from what we have seen so far, the already announced games run with a mix of RT and raster anyway, so the RT bling could be disabled and you'd still have a perfectly good game).

Other than that, I don't see how that would hold back the devs as they would treat the XS as a low end PC and just turn down the setting and resolution/fps.

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mclarenmaster18

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#16 mclarenmaster18
Member since 2014 • 3059 Posts

Still stronger than Nintendo Switch though.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#17 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 8677 Posts

It won't make a difference. Its not going to hold back the game to run it from high settings to mid/low settings. The series X is for 4K, lockhart is for 1080p.

What might hold the games back is also being designed to run on the Xbox One. The CPUs alone are night and day. Let's say the core gameplay needs to run advanced physics, ai and run at 60fps, but they have to make it work on the original Xbox One.

If people remember, they kept games off the Wii U because of the Cpu.

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Bluestars

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#18 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

News flash

Not everyone has a 4ktv,in fact a shit load more Have HD than UHD

If so....MS has you covered for next gen

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sealionact

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#19 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet: Devs don't have to cater for the x1.....ms 1st party games will scale down, but 3rd party are free to do as they please.

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robert_sparkes

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#20 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 4089 Posts

It's a decent idea to get people upgrading to next gen quicker but the rumoured lack of power could become a problem. Sony have the better idea with going digital than a completely weaker option.

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joebones5000

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#21 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3063 Posts

Work the money I have invested into this thing, I would keep the Xbox one for another 5 years if devs made games for it. I'm fine with the weaker Xbox.

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rzxv04

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#22 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 856 Posts

It's a smart move and it's not going to affect PS5 and SX development much because of how low the target resolution of the Lockhart seems to be.

Imagine One X not "wasting" its resources into trying to push 4K but instead more on every other visual setting, but even better because the CPU is going to be much better.

At $ 299, I think it's still an aggressive package if it's able to properly scale down SX 4K games into 1080p with only a few downgrades in other settings.

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SolidGame_basic

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#23 SolidGame_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 26481 Posts

Won't matter what console they have. What matters is games, games, games.

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#24 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 10264 Posts

I'm not entirely sure what Microsoft's strategy will be with the Series S but, I'm not sure the "budget 1080p - next gen" console picture that folks are painting it as will really do all that well if it turns out to be true.

For instance, why not just stick with an Xbox One or, PS4 for the next few years while third party developers start to move away from the hardware and, *then* purchase a Series X or, PS5?

I'm convinced third party developers of games like Fortnite, Apex, Fifa, Madden etc. will NOT drop the current gen consoles very quickly this time around which, imo, puts the Series S in an awkward position if it does get painted as the "budget 1080p - next gen" console.

A budget box would be for a budget consumer and, I don't know how you get them to upgrade or not stick to your cheaper box (Xbox One / PS4) when the games and, services are exactly the same. These aren't smartphones where people feel the need to upgrade every two years.

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Sagemode87

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#25 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 1549 Posts

@BlackShirt20: but everyone will give a crap about the negligible differences from PS5 and SX that are negated by PS5 advantages though, huh? Do tell.

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#26 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 4846 Posts

@rzxv04 said:

At $ 299, I think it's still an aggressive package if it's able to properly scale down SX 4K games into 1080p with only a few downgrades in other settings.

I doubt this rumored box will be that cheap. $399 is more likely.

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Bluestars

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#27 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@SolidGame_basic:

Games games games?

If you own an Xbox yes.

If your a one console fanboy And that is a PS then every Xbox game is shit Regardless HAH

#none-gamer-one system-sad acts

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#28 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 1124 Posts

Did Apple shoot themselves releasing the XR?

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HalcyonScarlet

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#29 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 8677 Posts

@sealionact said:

@HalcyonScarlet: Devs don't have to cater for the x1.....ms 1st party games will scale down, but 3rd party are free to do as they please.

Well, I understand that it's for MS 1st party games.

But there is a limit right? There is a certain CPU standard games are built around, an expectation for the developers, that they can't scale and have the same experience intact.

For example, if they made a next gen Forza Motorsport game, that would be quite CPU heavy right, you can't just scale a game like designed for for a decent clocked Ryzen CPU to a low clocked Jaguar CPU.

Graphics, sure. The next Halo and Gears, may not be difficult to scale down.

Do you see what I'm saying? You can scale down effects physics, like in the arkham games, but not the physics needed for the core of the game.

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rzxv04

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#30 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 856 Posts

@shellcase86 said:
@rzxv04 said:

At $ 299, I think it's still an aggressive package if it's able to properly scale down SX 4K games into 1080p with only a few downgrades in other settings.

I doubt this rumored box will be that cheap. $399 is more likely.

That's possible.

Both Sony and MS can still lower initial price but decide to do far less sales and discounts in the long run.

If you've been checking deal sites One X has been aggressively discounted way more and far more frequently than PS4 Pro the past 2 years. I think there was even a system wars thread about it on how arrogant sony is due to sales, they don't have to drop price as bad as One X because it's selling enough.

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Subspecies

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#31 Subspecies  Online
Member since 2018 • 2408 Posts

Some might say yes, but the fact is MS doesn't care about holding back next gen gaming. In fact they've built a whole strategy around it. They really want that COD crowd.

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Pedro

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#32 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40127 Posts

@subspecies said:

Some might say yes, but the fact is MS doesn't care about holding back next gen gaming. In fact they've built a whole strategy around it. They really want that COD crowd.

You mean like Sony?😎

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Subspecies

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#33 Subspecies  Online
Member since 2018 • 2408 Posts

@Pedro said:
@subspecies said:

Some might say yes, but the fact is MS doesn't care about holding back next gen gaming. In fact they've built a whole strategy around it. They really want that COD crowd.

You mean like Sony?😎

Well, yeah. I do. And MS realizes that a lot of other people do, too. That's why they're trying so hard to get those fans back by appealing to the COD crowd.

Duh.

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Pedro

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#34 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 40127 Posts

@subspecies said:

Well, yeah. I do. And MS realizes that a lot of other people do, too. That's why they're trying so hard to get those fans back by appealing to the COD crowd.

Duh.

You realize the "duh" doesn't work in context but its cute that you tried. 😎

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PC_Rocks

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#35 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 3943 Posts

I wonder why the usual suspects are responding in it, thought they don't like spam. Oh sorry, I forgot only the threads criticizing Sony are spam. LMAO!

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sealionact

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#36  Edited By sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet: To be honest, theres going to be 5-6 1st party games from ms that have to be crossplay....Halo, Gears, Forza...maybe Fable and two more. Forza would be the easiest to scale for an x1 given how many cars are already onscreen this gen....every thing else like you say is scaleable; resolution, fps, draw distance, textures.

I just dont see a huge problem.

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lamprey263

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#37 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 36915 Posts

While it might be problematic on consumer end, I'd imagine burdening developers with a new tier to make games for would be another problem. Unless it's going to be marketed as a beefed up XB1 that can play XB1 and supported BC locally, on top of supporting game streaming for next gen content, I think it would be a mistake to market it as an entry level next gen device. And it has been rumored at 4TF, I think anything less than an XB1X in performance would be a mistake.

Rumors floating include a Lockhart at half the price of Series X, and additional rumors suggest MS is prepared to go as low as $400, ideally, I would hope best case scenario is a 6TF Lockhart at between $200 and $250 and a 12TF Series X at between $400 and $500. Previous rumors though claim Lockhart will be 4TF, so, that's the one thing I find perplexing if it's supposed to be in the next gen family.

Anyhow, whatever it is they show next month, I hope they're prepared to show it off in a way that won't haunt them all generation, that goes for the Series X as well.

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#38  Edited By Willy105
Member since 2005 • 25338 Posts

The Series S is their bullet to fire when PS5 reveals their astronomical price.

As for bringing PCs into the mix, whether you go PC or Xbox, Microsoft wins either way. The Xbox is for people who don't want to build a PC or have the upfront money to buy one.

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Gifford38

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#39 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 1049 Posts

nope even the lockhart will have full raytracing in there games and still be 60fps while the series x will have 120fps. remember guys every xbox game will have raytracing.

while the ps5 will only have one object using raytracing.

ssd are nothing and we all love the load screens. says every xbox fan.