This article comes from The Verge: 4K is the wrong target for Xbox One X and PS4 Pro which I thought was interesting read and so with that, take it what you will but I will say 4K is just too early for both Sony/MS this gen, that could have been something to look forward to next-gen consoles. Now what both Sony/MS don't tell console gamers this, 4K is just a marketing buzzword to sell 4KTVs.
Do you agree SW 4K is the wrong way for both Pro & Xbox One X as of right now?
THE WRONG WAY TO SPEND THE SILICON
60FPS MAKES A VASTLY BIGGER DIFFERENCE TO THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE
Yeah this gen it makes little sense but it is a buzzword so it generates hype. That's why I think Sony was smart, they released an upgrade that was not that powerful but they can still use the buzzword while releasing it one year earlier and cheaper. It was a good move.
Sony and MS aren't listening because 4k was the new hype phrase and the actual performance was an after thought.
Honestly I think they may include those frame rate settings for next gen editions but it's all going to depend on how much more power they can squeeze out by the time they launch.
Diminishing returns is why they aren't pushing frame rate now. If Devs could have games look as good as the new GOD of War at 60fps I honestly think they would but devs are also cought up in the BS 4k hype so they are part of the blame too because they "could" give the option for less res and 60fps.
They should definitely require devs to provide settings for 4K and 1080p/60fps though.
I think most people would prefer a choice..... It's kind of ridiculous more devs don't provide options. 1080 scales perfectly with 4K so there's not even any possibility for issues viewing 1080 on a 4K display.
1080P was overrated in 2013 - 2016 and the powah should have been used other ways but for some reason it was all the rage especially if One system did 180P less than 1080P, mangy, the roof was blown off by those pointing that out daily making the biggest of big deal about it. Weird I know. Not sure what's changed? lolol :P
They are basically the PS3 and XBox 360 of 4k gaming. If you look at it that way, you won't be disappointed.
No, it's still disappointing because the games still perform basically the same only at a higher resolution.
It's not all Sony and MS fault however, the devs are the ones who decide their options since they are giving free reign to do what the want with the power of the systems.
At the very lease MS could mandate that all games have a 1080p 60fps mode because the power of the system should support it but maybe when the sales flounder a bit MS will get the motivation to require such things. That seems to be how this generation has played out so far.
1080P was overrated in 2013 - 2016 and the powah should have been used other ways but for some reason it was all the rage especially if One system did 180P less than 1080P, mangy, the roof was blown off by those pointing that out daily making the biggest of big deal about it. Weird I know. Not sure what's changed? lolol :P
Is it really so crazy to expect a console to get 1080p consistently the second time around and 7 years later?
They are basically the PS3 and XBox 360 of 4k gaming. If you look at it that way, you won't be disappointed.
No, it's still disappointing because the games still perform basically the same only at a higher resolution.
It's not all Sony and MS fault however, the devs are the ones who decide their options since they are giving free reign to do what the want with the power of the systems.
At the very lease MS could mandate that all games have a 1080p 60fps mode because the power of the system should support it but maybe when the sales flounder a bit MS will get the motivation to require such things. That seems to be how this generation has played out so far.
The consumer's wallet was the deciding factor here. A Ryzen/Threadripper console would have been very costly, especially since AMD has to meet consumer demand on the part as it is, which would not only make the price for the technology high but keep it high well into the end of the console lifecycle.
There was never going to be a "True 4k Console". . . Not this side of 2020. The more people come to terms with this, the happier they will be.
1080P was overrated in 2013 - 2016 and the powah should have been used other ways but for some reason it was all the rage especially if One system did 180P less than 1080P, mangy, the roof was blown off by those pointing that out daily making the biggest of big deal about it. Weird I know. Not sure what's changed? lolol :P
Is it really so crazy to expect a console to get 1080p consistently the second time around and 7 years later?
Why bother, 900P was just groovy, well for some of us, others, no way, that loss of 180P meant everything baby. Gosh that seems like only yesterday. lol :P
HDR makes a bigger difference imo. 4K is very nice for larger TVs, but there are plenty of examples of down sampling solving the resolution and AA issues at 1080p. I played a ton of Titanfall 2 on a PS4 Pro on a 1080p TV. That game looked sooooo clean with supersampling. With MLB The Show 17, I don't play at 4K cuz it runs like shit and the shadows look bad. Enhanced visuals mode drops the resolution but adds visual enhancements. As long as Microsoft, Sony and developers push those options to folks still on 1080p and to folks that have 4K but prefer performance, things will be ok. But they have to actually market these improvements instead of just pushing 4K.
If the consoles can't handle 4K with a stable 60FPS, then yeah. Screw 4K. I'd take 1080p 60FPS over 4K unstable 30FPS any day.
Yup!
Same here. Hell, I personally wouldn't mind 900p/60fps for that matter myself.
@pyro1245 said:
Not necessarily....
They should definitely require devs to provide settings for 4K and 1080p/60fps though.
I think most people would prefer a choice..... It's kind of ridiculous more devs don't provide options. 1080 scales perfectly with 4K so there's not even any possibility for issues viewing 1080 on a 4K display.
I agree. Give console gamers a choice on the settings they prefer if that was the case but at the same time, I don't think developers have the time to go though all the settings not while they have a deadline to release there games.
I think advertising for 4K (shiny graphics woooo) is a good way to sell units. However, I'd still prefer choice in my settings. It obviously doesn't have to be to the degree of PC's, but even just a few presets (4K30FPS, 1080P60FPS, etc.). This will hopefully be something we see over the next year with both the PS4 Pro and X1X on the market. I'm pretty sure a few games on the Pro have already started doing this.
People with 4K TV's will really appreciate the MS 1st party best of both worlds games like FM7 doing 4K 60 fps. I know late this year when I get mah big, top of the line 4K TV I'll certainly want to take advantage of the 4K rez.
Thank you Mighty X1X on behalf of all the current and future 4K TV owners. :P
I've been playing on consoles for a long time and performance has always been all over the place. If people are this concerned about target resolutions and frame rates, it's time to build yourself a rig.
It's the wrong target. These consoles cant even run all games at 1080p/60fps yet. It's just a new buzzword to help them sell new hardware. The real 4K consoles will be out next gen, the Pro and X1X are pretenders.
It would be nice if the consoles had something to offer people who don't have 4k tvs.
This is a great example of the missteps made by Sony and Microsofts marketing teams. The Pro and One X offer great enhancements to 1080p TV owners.
Yeh it is pretty laughable, avarage user just thinks those are only good for 4k tv's, most(and yes sw users to some extent as well) dont even know those enhancements exist at all
4k marketing is doing harm to video gaming hardware this gen. Instead of making a reasonable improvement in performance and resolution moderately, MS and Sony are chasing the hype of "4k" which is basically just 2160p. Why not aim for higher framerates at 1440p first?
Think about how detailed actual graphics could be if a game was made specifically for Xbox One X (forgetting base XB1 hardware) and it targeted just native 1280x720p resolution at 30fps, allowing for the absolute maximum complexity per scene and highest image quality.
BTW I think future base consoles that target native 4K are going to need GPUs with 64 to 96 ROPs. The highest end Nvidia GPUs of the last couple generations (GP102, GM200) have 96 ROPs, and all highend AMD GPUs have 64. The Xbox One X, PS4 Pro and base PS4 GPUs all have 32 ROPs and the original XBone has 16.
Why do ROPs within a GPU matter? Pixel fillrate. The more ROPs in a GPU, the more pixels it can output per clock cycle.
PC can't even do 4K/60fps comfortably with top end hardware on more demanding games. Why even bother with 4K on consoles at this point in time? Screw the buzzwords and improve gaming as a whole by making 60fps standard. Why do peasants have to suffer 30fps? They should have an option to buy a 60fps console. Think of the children people...
When will people learn that with these lackluster CPU's a consistent 60fps is off the table for many games. What they could do is a locked 1080p30 and push the boat out on the graphics side, or just wait for the next gen consoles that have proper cpu and gpu's.
I think that mid-generation upgrades to consoles are a bad move and a f*** you to early buyers. 4K televisions aren't even widely adopted at the moment.
Think about how detailed actual graphics could be if a game was made specifically for Xbox One X (forgetting base XB1 hardware) and it targeted just native 1280x720p resolution at 30fps, allowing for the absolute maximum complexity per scene and highest image quality.
BTW I think future base consoles that target native 4K are going to need GPUs with 64 to 96 ROPs. The highest end Nvidia GPUs of the last couple generations (GP102, GM200) have 96 ROPs, and all highend AMD GPUs have 64. The Xbox One X, PS4 Pro and base PS4 GPUs all have 32 ROPs and the original XBone has 16.
Why do ROPs within a GPU matter? Pixel fillrate. The more ROPs in a GPU, the more pixels it can output per clock cycle.
Wrong, memory bandwidth bounds ROPS.
RX-480 beats both GTX 1060 and R9-390X in 3DMarks Vantage's Pixel score.
R9-390X still beats RX-480 in 4K.
For Vega 64 at 1600 Mhz
RGBA16F: 1600 Mhz * 64 ROPS * 8 bytes = 819 GB/s, that's just a single direction. A read and write has two direction.
RGBA32F: 1600 Mhz * 64 ROPS * 16 bytes = 1638 GB/s, that's just a single direction. A read and write has two direction.
AMD ROPS includes color ROPS , depth/stencil ROPS and MSAA processors. The above calculation are only color ROPS in a single direction and I haven't factored in depth/stencil ROPS.
Pixel Engine being connected to L2 cache and Delta Color Compression (DCC) makes color ROPS to be less memory bandwidth bound.
If you attended Avalanche Studios' GDC 2014 lecture, TMU (Texture Units) can used like additional color ROPS units, but without color ROPS's built-in effects.
GTX 980 Ti's ~3MB L2 cache effective memory bandwidth is about 694 GB/s before DCC.
GTX 1080 Ti's ~3MB L2 cache effective memory bandwidth is about 1 TB/s before DCC.
ROPS issue is a distraction. The real issue is TMU effective memory bandwidth.
Game benchmark ranking reflects TMU effective memory bandwidth rankings NOT ROPS.
Game benchmark ranking reflects TMU effective memory bandwidth rankings NOT ROPS.
The fact is that 4k is not a mandate for either console. Devs can take the additional power for improved framerates and better visuals. So, I don't see the problem. Gamers are yet again making a problem that doesn't exist. The concern would have been justified if its was a requirement for either system but it isn't.
Pedro is right, the developers can choose where they want to put the resources. So far all I see from a lot of people is "the X1X only has 2 true 4k, lololol weak console", then we get threads like these begging for 1080p 60fps, which one do you guys want?
If the devs want 1080p 60fps, then they are free to do it. Nintendo do it for their games, drop the resolution to get a consistent 60fps, Rocket League is the latest, I also know a lot of people go "lolol 720p in 2017".
@sailor232: @Pedro: The problem is the CPU is shit on these consoles and it bottlenecks the games from reaching 60fps in a lot of scenarios. That is why we will continue to see games struggle to do 1080p/60fps even on the X and Pro. Half-ass and unbalanced hardware designed around peasant standards.
1080P was overrated in 2013 - 2016 and the powah should have been used other ways but for some reason it was all the rage especially if One system did 180P less than 1080P, mangy, the roof was blown off by those pointing that out daily making the biggest of big deal about it. Weird I know. Not sure what's changed? lolol :P
Certainly wasn't overrated, I played 1080p games on my PC at the time and wished my PS3 and Xbox360 could do that. When I got a PS4 my PC turned into a net-browsing-netflix-box.
@Jebus213 said:
I'm seeing @ronvalencia posts as nothing more then just spam at this point.
I skim right past em lol, they're ****** charts and links mostly.
Consoles should have focused more on providing 1080p at 60fps experience. I'm personally six and tired of 30fps. Atleast with the Pro they give you the option of having 60fps game play but game developed is focused more on 4k experience and as a result optimization for 1080p gaming is taking a back seat, which is BS. No matter how much time goes by consoles never provide me with the experience I want.
1080P was overrated in 2013 - 2016 and the powah should have been used other ways but for some reason it was all the rage especially if One system did 180P less than 1080P, mangy, the roof was blown off by those pointing that out daily making the biggest of big deal about it. Weird I know. Not sure what's changed? lolol :P
Certainly wasn't overrated, I played 1080p games on my PC at the time and wished my PS3 and Xbox360 could do that. When I got a PS4 my PC turned into a net-browsing-netflix-box.
@Jebus213 said:
I'm seeing @ronvalencia posts as nothing more then just spam at this point.
I skim right past em lol, they're ****** charts and links mostly.
Phffft, a sheep caring about graphics is doing it wrong. lolol :P
1080p60 for the Pro and something like 1600p60 for the One X would be the ideal. And considering dozens of games already run at 60fps, even on the main models, i don't think it would be a problem.
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