If Demon's Souls is an RPG, is Zelda also ?

They both seem like Action/Adventure games with light RPG elements to me. Can anyone explain how Demon's Souls is considered an RPG and Zelda is not? By the way, I'm not saying Zelda should be considered an RPG. It's clearly not. But after playing Demon's Souls I don't understand how that is consdiered an RPG either.

So again. What makes Demon's Souls more of an RPG then Zelda?

As for leveling and customization.... So Modern Warfare is an RPG? Madden? Rainbow 6?

Stat leveling and cutomization.

Stat leveling and cutomization.

Shirokishi_

There's no health bar for enemies in zelda, and you don't gain any experience from killing enemies.

Madden has Leveling & Customization ='s RPG ? Modern Warfare? Rainbow Vegas?

Demon's Souls is actually pretty heavy on the stats and abilities side of things. For instance, you will hold and swing a Bastard Sword like a little girl if your strength is not high enough. Zelda is more action/adventure to me.

[QUOTE="Shirokishi_"]

Stat leveling and cutomization.

IronBass

Im younger and faster...

Yet not nearly as awesome as you :cry:

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Oh, and while most games in the Zelda series cant be considered RPGs, one can. Zelda 2 had leveling ;)

You can't level up in a Zelda game, and upgrading weapon's like the Biggoron's Sword and finding heart pieces to increase your health, although it improves you, isn't enough to classify it as "RPG."

Some people assume Zelda is an RPG just because of the "fantasy setting."

Madden has Leveling & Customization ='s RPG ? Modern Warfare? Rainbow Vegas?

SpideR_CentS

Madden has Leveling & Customization ='s RPG ? Modern Warfare? Rainbow Vegas?

SpideR_CentS

Madden has Leveling & Customization ='s RPG ? Modern Warfare? Rainbow Vegas?

SpideR_CentS

i don't know about madden because I don't play sports games, but MW and R6 don't have stats and leveling. Just better weapons and in R6 different armor options.

Yet not nearly as awesome as you :cry:Shirokishi_

Merely levelling up and dumping numbers into a small stack of stats doesn't really qualify as a true RPG.

To me Demon's Souls was a hack and slash game with light RPG elements. You could not develop or shift the story in any way whatsoever. There was no role to develop or act out, there was ONE objective and one objective only and no way to deviate from that path. The only real meaningful decisions came at the very end, when deciding whether or not to let the Maiden live. No exploration (levels are tiny and few in number, it's just a matter of memorization and re-fighting the same portions of the level over and over again until you get it right.) Even shifting world or character tendency had no impact whatsoever, it just led to whether or not you could bump into a couple good characters or bad phantoms, it had no impact on how you character unfurled the game's story.

That being said, I loved Demon's Souls, but a fully fleshed out RPG it was not.

They both seem like Action/Adventure games with light RPG elements to me. Can anyone explain how Demon's Souls is considered an RPG and Zelda is not? By the way, I'm not saying Zelda should be considered an RPG. It's clearly not. But after playing Demon's Souls I don't understand how that is consdiered an RPG either.

So again. What makes Demon's Souls more of an RPG then Zelda?

As for leveling and customization.... So Modern Warfare is an RPG? Madden? Rainbow 6?

SpideR_CentS

[QUOTE="SpideR_CentS"]

They both seem like Action/Adventure games with light RPG elements to me. Can anyone explain how Demon's Souls is considered an RPG and Zelda is not? By the way, I'm not saying Zelda should be considered an RPG. It's clearly not. But after playing Demon's Souls I don't understand how that is consdiered an RPG either.

So again. What makes Demon's Souls more of an RPG then Zelda?

As for leveling and customization.... So Modern Warfare is an RPG? Madden? Rainbow 6?

DerekLoffin

You make choices in DS like you make choices in Mario... whether or not to continue to the next castle or to turn the system off.

There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.

No relationships to cultivate. No decisions which changed how to story progressed. There wasn't really even an actively developing story. You just were introduced to the tiny handful of NPC's in the Nexus, and then played through the entire game.

Even shifting world or character tendencies had no impact on the story whatsoever, and that wasn't from making decisions on how to cultivate your character's personality... it was just a matter of deciding to attack character X (like Ostrava, etc.) or not. The entirety of DS's plot twists/developments/and dialogue in DS could fit on one side of a napkin. There was no real role playing involved.... tons of games that aren't considered RPG's have stat assignments.

Isn't Zelda an Action RPG.

Isn't Zelda an Action RPG.

chocolate1325

Yep.5 parts action 1 part RPG.

Demon's Souls is pretty much the same thing (not the same type of game that is, just how much of an "RPG" it is. While it has levelling up and more stat assignments compared to Zelda it has far, far less character and story development.

There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.RuprechtMonkey

What about the choices of whether you want to make your world/character tendency pure black/white?

Isn't Zelda an Action RPG.

chocolate1325

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="SpideR_CentS"]

They both seem like Action/Adventure games with light RPG elements to me. Can anyone explain how Demon's Souls is considered an RPG and Zelda is not? By the way, I'm not saying Zelda should be considered an RPG. It's clearly not. But after playing Demon's Souls I don't understand how that is consdiered an RPG either.

So again. What makes Demon's Souls more of an RPG then Zelda?

As for leveling and customization.... So Modern Warfare is an RPG? Madden? Rainbow 6?

RuprechtMonkey

You make choices in DS like you make choices in Mario... whether or not to continue to the next castle or to turn the system off.

There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.

No relationships to cultivate. No decisions which changed how to story progressed. There wasn't really even an actively developing story. You just were introduced to the tiny handful of NPC's in the Nexus, and then played through the entire game.

Even shifting world or character tendencies had no impact on the story whatsoever, and that wasn't from making decisions on how to cultivate your character's personality... it was just a matter of deciding to attack character X (like Ostrava, etc.) or not. The entirety of DS's plot twists/developments/and dialogue in DS could fit on one side of a napkin. There was no real role playing involved.... tons of games that aren't considered RPG's have stat assignments.

Haven't played many old RPGs have you?

[QUOTE="SpideR_CentS"]

Madden has Leveling & Customization ='s RPG ? Modern Warfare? Rainbow Vegas?

good_sk8er7

i don't know about madden because I don't play sports games, but MW and R6 don't have stats and leveling. Just better weapons and in R6 different armor options.

MW2 and Vegas 2 definitely do have leveling that unlocks weapons and, in the case of MW2, abilities in the form of perks. I think those games are as much action/RPG as Demon Souls, and as much as Borderlands.

May not be as deep, then again, where do you draw the line? How much leveling and unlockables and inventory management is required to qualify as an RPG?

What genre does Zelda fall under? I'm just going to call every game hybrids.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.BZSIN

What about the choices of whether you want to make your world/character tendency pure black/white?

No impact on the story whatsoever.

You can finish the game any way you like with any tendency.

For example, on my first playthrough (before even starting a NG+) I created a pure black world tendency, then I shifted it to a pure white. On my first playthrough I had a pure black character tendency and changed it to pure white on NG+.

The only thing it determines is if you run into a few wooden, one or two sentence blurting NPS's (Ostrava,) Mephistopheles, or a few bad phantoms.... and how many hits they take to kill.It has no impact whatsoever on the unfolding of the story. You can choose to kill or let live the Maiden regardless of WT or CT, itthey have no repercussions.

Hell, there's no real story to unfold. After you open up all Nexus worlds the Maiden will say the same things endlessly until the ending sequence.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] No. DS is definitely not 'light' on RPG elements (although it is light on the decision making aspects that some RPGs go for). Zelda pretty much has 2 stats, sometimes not even that (health and magic) and both are based completely on reaching set goals to attain boosters for both (with the exception of Zelda 2 which actually did have some RPG too it). DS you have lots of stats that affect you in many ways, and although you don't make many choices, you do make them.Yandere

You make choices in DS like you make choices in Mario... whether or not to continue to the next castle or to turn the system off.

There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.

No relationships to cultivate. No decisions which changed how to story progressed. There wasn't really even an actively developing story. You just were introduced to the tiny handful of NPC's in the Nexus, and then played through the entire game.

Even shifting world or character tendencies had no impact on the story whatsoever, and that wasn't from making decisions on how to cultivate your character's personality... it was just a matter of deciding to attack character X (like Ostrava, etc.) or not. The entirety of DS's plot twists/developments/and dialogue in DS could fit on one side of a napkin. There was no real role playing involved.... tons of games that aren't considered RPG's have stat assignments.

Haven't played many old RPGs have you?

Don't even know what this means, but I've been playing them for over 2 decades.

What RPG's are you talking about?

Hell, FF on the NES had actual character and story development.

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="SpideR_CentS"]

They both seem like Action/Adventure games with light RPG elements to me. Can anyone explain how Demon's Souls is considered an RPG and Zelda is not? By the way, I'm not saying Zelda should be considered an RPG. It's clearly not. But after playing Demon's Souls I don't understand how that is consdiered an RPG either.

So again. What makes Demon's Souls more of an RPG then Zelda?

As for leveling and customization.... So Modern Warfare is an RPG? Madden? Rainbow 6?

RuprechtMonkey

You make choices in DS like you make choices in Mario... whether or not to continue to the next castle or to turn the system off.

There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.

No relationships to cultivate. No decisions which changed how to story progressed. There wasn't really even an actively developing story. You just were introduced to the tiny handful of NPC's in the Nexus, and then played through the entire game.

Even shifting world or character tendencies had no impact on the story whatsoever, and that wasn't from making decisions on how to cultivate your character's personality... it was just a matter of deciding to attack character X (like Ostrava, etc.) or not. The entirety of DS's plot twists/developments/and dialogue in DS could fit on one side of a napkin. There was no real role playing involved.... tons of games that aren't considered RPG's have stat assignments.

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

You make choices in DS like you make choices in Mario... whether or not to continue to the next castle or to turn the system off.

There was no choices to make in DS. You played the worlds, defeatedtheir bosses, finished the game.

No relationships to cultivate. No decisions which changed how to story progressed. There wasn't really even an actively developing story. You just were introduced to the tiny handful of NPC's in the Nexus, and then played through the entire game.

Even shifting world or character tendencies had no impact on the story whatsoever, and that wasn't from making decisions on how to cultivate your character's personality... it was just a matter of deciding to attack character X (like Ostrava, etc.) or not. The entirety of DS's plot twists/developments/and dialogue in DS could fit on one side of a napkin. There was no real role playing involved.... tons of games that aren't considered RPG's have stat assignments.

RuprechtMonkey

Haven't played many old RPGs have you?

Don't even know what this means, but I've been playing them for over 2 decades.

What RPG's are you talking about?

Hell, FF on the NES had actual character and story development.

Play dungeon crawlers (the genre that Demon's Souls is based off of), they have little to no story/character interaction.

The class choices in Demon's Souls were completely meaningless and only determined a small shift in the arrangement of you starting stats and base level equipment. There was no "mage" character per se, a Barbarian can use or cast any spell in the game and has no real disadvantage when using magic compared to any other selected class. It basically amounted to choosing only to use certain types of weapons, and you can do that in any game...

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

Haven't played many old RPGs have you?

Yandere

Don't even know what this means, but I've been playing them for over 2 decades.

What RPG's are you talking about?

Hell, FF on the NES had actual character and story development.

Play dungeon crawlers (the genre that Demon's Souls is based off of), they have little to no story/character interaction.

Hahaha, Demon's Souls is no way whatsoever, at all, based on old dungeon crawlers.

Game like the Elder Scrolls series (Hell, Arena is what... 15 or 16 year old now) and Baldur's Gate are nothing like Demon's Souls. Those are true RPG's, and have about as much story / character interaction that is possible. The RPG's with the most story and character development of all time have been "dungeon crawlers."

There are no "dungeons to crawl" in Demon's Souls. It has a tiny amount of levels and nowhere to explore. Demon's Souls is not at all about exploration, it is about repetition, playing the same part (literally the same part, not a cave that resembles the last 20 caves you found) over and over and over again until you're able to proceed.

May not be as deep, then again, where do you draw the line? How much leveling and unlockables and inventory management is required to qualify as an RPG?VoodooHak

The class choices in Demon's Souls were completely meaningless and only determined a small shift in the arrangement of you starting stats and base level equipment. There was no "mage" character per se, a Barbarian can use or cast any spell in the game and has no real disadvantage when using magic compared to any other selected class. It basically amounted to choosing only to use certain types of weapons, and you can do that in any game...

RuprechtMonkey

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

Don't even know what this means, but I've been playing them for over 2 decades.

What RPG's are you talking about?

Hell, FF on the NES had actual character and story development.

RuprechtMonkey

Play dungeon crawlers (the genre that Demon's Souls is based off of), they have little to no story/character interaction.

Hahaha, Demon's Souls is no way whatsoever, at all, based on old dungeon crawlers.

Game like the Elder Scrolls series (Hell, Arena is what... 15 or 16 year old now) and Baldur's Gate are nothing like Demon's Souls. Those are true RPG's, and have about as much story / character interaction that is possible. The RPG's with the most story and character development of all time have been "dungeon crawlers."

There are no "dungeons to crawl" in Demon's Souls. It has a tiny amount of levels and nowhere to explore. Demon's Souls is not at all about exploration, it is about repetition, playing the same part (literally the same part, not a cave that resembles the last 20 caves you found) over and over and over again until you're able to proceed.

You think Elder Scrolls/Baldur's Gate are dungeon crawlers? Funny.

Demon's Souls is pretty much based off of King's Field, and if you also don't think that's a dungeon crawler I don't know.

P.S. I said its based off of, I'm not saying it is one.

It has a story, like say, Halo has a story.

You're introduced to the background and the objective for about 5 minutes in the beginning, then you play through the entire game, and then it ends with another short cutscene.

If your're asking if it has a story like any RPG you might be thinking of "Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls games, etc.) that unravels, is hugely rich and complex, and you can actively cultivate while you play - then no it doesn't.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

Play dungeon crawlers (the genre that Demon's Souls is based off of), they have little to no story/character interaction.

Yandere

Hahaha, Demon's Souls is no way whatsoever, at all, based on old dungeon crawlers.

Game like the Elder Scrolls series (Hell, Arena is what... 15 or 16 year old now) and Baldur's Gate are nothing like Demon's Souls. Those are true RPG's, and have about as much story / character interaction that is possible. The RPG's with the most story and character development of all time have been "dungeon crawlers."

There are no "dungeons to crawl" in Demon's Souls. It has a tiny amount of levels and nowhere to explore. Demon's Souls is not at all about exploration, it is about repetition, playing the same part (literally the same part, not a cave that resembles the last 20 caves you found) over and over and over again until you're able to proceed.

You think Elder Scrolls/Baldur's Gate are dungeon crawlers? Funny.

Demon's Souls is pretty much based off of King's Field, and if you also don't think that's a dungeon crawler I don't know.

P.S. I said its based off of, I'm not saying it is one.

Elder Scrolls and Baldur's Gate are QUINTESSENTIAL dungeon crawlers. No offense, but I don't think you know what that term means.

It has a story, like say, Halo has a story.

You're introduced to the background and the objective for about 5 minutes in the beginning, then you play through the entire game, and then it ends with another short cutscene.

If your're asking if it has a story like any RPG you might be thinking of "Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls games, etc.) that unravels, is hugely rich and complex, and you can actively cultivate while you play - then no it doesn't.

RuprechtMonkey

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

Hahaha, Demon's Souls is no way whatsoever, at all, based on old dungeon crawlers.

Game like the Elder Scrolls series (Hell, Arena is what... 15 or 16 year old now) and Baldur's Gate are nothing like Demon's Souls. Those are true RPG's, and have about as much story / character interaction that is possible. The RPG's with the most story and character development of all time have been "dungeon crawlers."

There are no "dungeons to crawl" in Demon's Souls. It has a tiny amount of levels and nowhere to explore. Demon's Souls is not at all about exploration, it is about repetition, playing the same part (literally the same part, not a cave that resembles the last 20 caves you found) over and over and over again until you're able to proceed.

RuprechtMonkey

You think Elder Scrolls/Baldur's Gate are dungeon crawlers? Funny.

Demon's Souls is pretty much based off of King's Field, and if you also don't think that's a dungeon crawler I don't know.

P.S. I said its based off of, I'm not saying it is one.

Elder Scrolls and Baldur's Gate are QUINTESSENTIAL dungeon crawlers. No offense, but I don't think you know what that term means.

No offense, but I don't think you know what dungeon crawlers are.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

The class choices in Demon's Souls were completely meaningless and only determined a small shift in the arrangement of you starting stats and base level equipment. There was no "mage" character per se, a Barbarian can use or cast any spell in the game and has no real disadvantage when using magic compared to any other selected class. It basically amounted to choosing only to use certain types of weapons, and you can do that in any game...

DerekLoffin

Played Dragon Age much?

The warrior classes can't use the mage's staffs. They have Mage only restrictions. Nor can they unlock an magic or spellcasting abilities, ever. Only Mage's can cast spells in Dragon Age. Unless you actively develop being an Arcane Warrior in Dragon Age your Mage can not advance anywhere using Melee.

[QUOTE="chocolate1325"]

Isn't Zelda an Action RPG.

uyiop0t

That is my definition of an RPG. and if you notice you can't confuse this with a game like Far Cry or Crysis which while open ended, do not allow choices that effect how your character or the environment are shaped. Sure you can approach situations differently but they all lead to the same outcome. Your character doesn't improve in anyway. In Zelda, your character is different by the end of the game based on items you find. Whether its more hearts, magic, fire and ice arrows, hook shot, boomerang, ect, some of these items are required to beat the game where others are merely waiting for the character to decide to find them. The Choice to harvest or free the little sisters from Bioshock are why the developers label that an RPG. While RPG lite, you are making game changing decisions.

I think any game in which you can have a different result from say your best friend who also played the same game, warrants the label RPG. It all comes down to player choice.

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

The class choices in Demon's Souls were completely meaningless and only determined a small shift in the arrangement of you starting stats and base level equipment. There was no "mage" character per se, a Barbarian can use or cast any spell in the game and has no real disadvantage when using magic compared to any other selected class. It basically amounted to choosing only to use certain types of weapons, and you can do that in any game...

RuprechtMonkey

Played Dragon Age much?

The warrior classes can't use the mage's staffs. The have Mage only restrictions. Nor can they unlock an magic or spellcasting abilities, ever. Only Mage's can cast spells in Dragon Age. Unless you actively develop being an Arcane Warrior in Dragon Age your Mage can not advance anywhere using Melee.

No stats, no RPG.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="Yandere"]

Play dungeon crawlers (the genre that Demon's Souls is based off of), they have little to no story/character interaction.

Yandere

Hahaha, Demon's Souls is no way whatsoever, at all, based on old dungeon crawlers.

Game like the Elder Scrolls series (Hell, Arena is what... 15 or 16 year old now) and Baldur's Gate are nothing like Demon's Souls. Those are true RPG's, and have about as much story / character interaction that is possible. The RPG's with the most story and character development of all time have been "dungeon crawlers."

There are no "dungeons to crawl" in Demon's Souls. It has a tiny amount of levels and nowhere to explore. Demon's Souls is not at all about exploration, it is about repetition, playing the same part (literally the same part, not a cave that resembles the last 20 caves you found) over and over and over again until you're able to proceed.

You think Elder Scrolls/Baldur's Gate are dungeon crawlers? Funny.

Demon's Souls is pretty much based off of King's Field, and if you also don't think that's a dungeon crawler I don't know.

P.S. I said its based off of, I'm not saying it is one.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="DerekLoffin"] The starting class choices had no lasting meaning, in the same way I can start in DA:O as a mage and end up meleeing the entire game, but none the less they had impact, and as you go and develop your character it has even more impact. You don't suddenly go from heavy mage to heavy melee. Hence, choice, no matters how much you deny it. Hell, if you want to go on this bent that only story choices matter, go make a post on how WoW isn't an RPG as it too has 0 story choices. DerekLoffin

Played Dragon Age much?

The warrior classes can't use the mage's staffs. The have Mage only restrictions. Nor can they unlock an magic or spellcasting abilities, ever. Only Mage's can cast spells in Dragon Age. Unless you actively develop being an Arcane Warrior in Dragon Age your Mage can not advance anywhere using Melee.

MMORPG's are completely different than traditional single playerRPG's. With MMORPG's you actively develop your character by nearly constantly interacting with other actual people (thereby developing your character's specific role,) establishing relationships, etc. That is the role playing in MMORPG's. In WoW there are a nearly infinite number of ways to develop your character, interact with others, etc. In Demon's Souls there is only one way to play it. No specific character or relationships to cultivate. It has about as much flexibilty of story or character role as a typical FPS.

It has stats, it has levelling.

That's it. It's has very, very light RPG elements, much like Zelda has light RPG elements.

No stats, no RPG.

789shadow