Hypothetical: PS5 base ($400) or PS5 pro ($500 with 60 fps/1080p option for all games) which would you buy?

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appariti0n

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Poll Hypothetical: PS5 base ($400) or PS5 pro ($500 with 60 fps/1080p option for all games) which would you buy? (46 votes)

Base 15%
Pro 85%

The PS5 will almost certainly launch with some sort of Ryzen variant. I'm curious which option most of you would go for.

A base model, with perhaps a 4 core / 8 thread Ryzen variant that would often be limited to 30 fps in AAA games....

Or an 8 core / 8 thread variant with higher clock speeds on a pro version with a "performance" mode, that could guarantee 60 fps in any title that already runs at a solid 30 fps on the base model.

Obviously the pro version of the console would be bulkier and draw more power.

I'm curious for those of you who don't seem to care about fps all that much, if you would be willing to sink an extra $100 for that option.

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hrt_rulz01

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#1 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 22368 Posts

I probably would go the top version... except the Xbox equivalent :)

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babyjoker1221

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#2 babyjoker1221
Member since 2015 • 1313 Posts

Where's the XB1X option?

I can watch movies on it as well as play games. Everytime I try and play a PS4 game, it just looks like a B rated movie instead.

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PurpleMan5000

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#3 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts

My experience with premium models of consoles has been that they are mostly indistinguishable from the base model. So I would probably just save the $100.

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ermacness

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#4 ermacness
Member since 2005 • 10597 Posts

@babyjoker1221:

That score and sells higher than most/all of the x1x's exclusive. Critics and consumers must really love those "B" rated movie games.

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ermacness

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#5 ermacness
Member since 2005 • 10597 Posts

@PurpleMan5000:

After the update, BF1 looked and performed much better on the pro vs the base ps4.

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Archangel3371

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#6 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 43988 Posts

I don’t really have a problem playing most games at 30 fps if I have to but if the PS5 and next Xbox were to simultaneously release a base and pro model when they came out then I would probably go with the pro model.

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pyro1245

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#7 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 9384 Posts

The one that comes with an SSD and no disc drive.

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DrLostRib

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#8 DrLostRib
Member since 2017 • 5931 Posts

at that point it will probably matter more what the 4k experience is like, so I'd probably have to go the more powerful one but probably not at launch

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DaVillain

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#9  Edited By DaVillain  Moderator  Online
Member since 2014 • 55898 Posts

Back in PS3 era, I paid $600 PS3 on launch and I didn't regretted my purchase cause it came with everything from PS1/PS2 BC, to Blu-Ray player, and a much better install base for that price. If PS5 were to be similar launch models, then I'll go with PS5 $500 and why do I get the feeling that $500 will include BC vs none BC $400? In doing so, it'll keep the base model a fair price and making it cheaper.

That said, I'm a PC gamer, I would gladly pay $500 (or $600) for the Pro model with BC, all exclusive games in 1080/60fps is the real prize. I'll still buy my games on PC, but the exclusive in all 60fps is what I want the most!

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Zidaneski

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#10 Zidaneski
Member since 2003 • 9266 Posts

Straight out of the gate id go for the pro but if it starts with base then later pro I'd hang onto the base till it breaks.

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Howmakewood

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#11 Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 7693 Posts
@pyro1245 said:

The one that comes with an SSD and no disc drive.

neither is coming out with an ssd

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SecretPolice

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#12 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 43933 Posts

Unless it offers free BC back to PS1.... Neither. :P

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Heil68

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#13 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60681 Posts

Top of the line baby..awwwww yeahhh

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DaVillain

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#14 DaVillain  Moderator  Online
Member since 2014 • 55898 Posts

@howmakewood said:
@pyro1245 said:

The one that comes with an SSD and no disc drive.

neither is coming out with an ssd

Which is why I'll just swap my SSD PS4 to PS5. I don't expect neither next-gen consoles ever to go with SSD due to how expensive they are, console makers want to keep the price down to a minimum as possible.

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pyro1245

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#15 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 9384 Posts
@howmakewood said:
@pyro1245 said:

The one that comes with an SSD and no disc drive.

neither is coming out with an ssd

That's what I would bet as well.

I never expected there to be a mid-gen update with the Pro consoles. Now I'm pretty sure that if there's only one option at launch I'm going to wait.

....and yeah I'll totally put an SSD in this time since I don't play many games on consoles and space isn't a really issue for me. Plus they have been getting cheaper.

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AJStyles

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#16 AJStyles
Member since 2018 • 1430 Posts

Will buy most expensive launch version.

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sonic_spark

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#17 sonic_spark
Member since 2003 • 6195 Posts

I hate the idea of variants for consoles. Games get made for both. The next-gen should not need a variant at launch.

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Chutebox

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#19 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50494 Posts

If I get one it'll be the Pro version.

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BassMan

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#20  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17763 Posts

I would rather they just release their games on PC so I don't have to waste money on another console just to play exclusives. However, that is unlikely to happen anytime soon, so the Pro 60fps option is the obvious choice for me.

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Zero_epyon

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#21 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20095 Posts

Whichever can handle steady native 4K games. I don't own 1080p screens anymore.

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deactivated-642321fb121ca

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#22 deactivated-642321fb121ca
Member since 2013 • 7142 Posts

There won't be a Pro model.

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lamprey263

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#23 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44503 Posts

They should save a mid-gen upgrade for mid-gen, only SKU variants should be on style, HDD size, and game bundles.

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reavis86

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#24  Edited By reavis86
Member since 2013 • 223 Posts

In 2020, 1080p/60 would be laughable. I haven't wanted to game in 1080p for the past few years.

In the type of games I play, 30fps is fine. I game 4k/30 the majority of the time on my pc. I prefer it over 1080p/60. If my pc would do 4k/60 with max settings I would be tickled, but 60fps is not a priority of mine. i7 7700k, asus rog strix gtx 1070, 16gb ddr4 3000 isnt a slouch, but it's not a beast either. I do 4k30 for the most part relatively easy. It would take a $1200 rtx 2080ti for me to do 4k60, so I'm good with 4k30...lol

I think the ps4 and xbox scarlet should focus on delivering a solid, uncompromised 4k30 for their base machines. Naturally some games will target 4k60 though. But we need a true 4k from the base machines.

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babyjoker1221

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#25 babyjoker1221
Member since 2015 • 1313 Posts

@Heil68 said:

Second in line baby..awwwww yeahhh

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rzxv04

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#26 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts

Probably the more expensive one.

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rmpumper

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#28 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2122 Posts

You are still expecting the base model to struggle with 1080/60? What is the point of that cow station would be?

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deactivated-6092a2d005fba

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#29 deactivated-6092a2d005fba
Member since 2015 • 22663 Posts

Neither because Sony has shit games, so games will still be shit at 30, 60, 120 etc.

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scatteh316

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#30 scatteh316
Member since 2004 • 10273 Posts

The console that offered me the best graphics and resolution....... **** 60fps...

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rzxv04

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#31 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts

@rmpumper said:

You are still expecting the base model to struggle with 1080/60? What is the point of that cow station would be?

On a side note, I'd love to see what Sony's and MS' first party could produce, graphics wise, if they focused on 1080p/30fps AAA game with next gen systems.

Shadows, lighting, shaders, particles, physics, crapton of objects, character models, etc. would definitely and literally be at least a magnitude higher than any current gen console game but alas, watch them chase that native 4K number.

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WitIsWisdom

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#32 WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9476 Posts

I could see a $500 base and a $600 pro. Either way, if there is an option day 1 I will be going with the best model.

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#33  Edited By FinalFighters
Member since 2013 • 3410 Posts

its about to be 2019, f*ck outta here with 1080p/60fps gaming

i want 4k/60fps or at the very least 1440p/60fps

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#34  Edited By KillzoneSnake
Member since 2012 • 2761 Posts

That 1080p dont make much sense. The standard at $400 should do PS4 level graphics at 4K/30 while the PRO 4K/60.

Anyway i buy only if it has BC. I already have PS4 level graphics and im cool at 1080p on monitor.. which is how gaming should be done... not on big TVs...

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iambatman7986

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#35 iambatman7986
Member since 2013 • 4569 Posts

The base PS5 better do 4k @ 30 fps. If not, I will view it as a failure. The Pro model should be 4k @ 60 fps.

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Xplode_games

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#36 Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2540 Posts

@howmakewood said:
@pyro1245 said:

The one that comes with an SSD and no disc drive.

neither is coming out with an ssd

Of course not it would be expensive and the space very limited. Space is already super important this gen. I imagine next gen it will be just as important if not more so.

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appariti0n

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#37 appariti0n
Member since 2009 • 5011 Posts

@KillzoneSnake said:

That 1080p dont make much sense. The standard at $400 should do PS4 level graphics at 4K/30 while the PRO 4K/60.

Anyway i buy only if it has BC. I already have PS4 level graphics and im cool at 1080p on monitor.. which is how gaming should be done... not on big TVs...

It makes perfect sense. Next gen, I can almost guarantee the target for the base system (both xbox and ps5 actually) will be 4K 30 fps.

If the pro model could handle true 4K 60 fps, that would require BOTH a heavily upgraded CPU and GPU, which would put the price delta way higher than $100.

1080p / 60 fps performance mode, or whatever you want to call it, would be achievable with just a CPU upgrade, for which the price difference could actually be less than $100.

I guess I should have phrased the question better, but I was really just curious to see how many people would pay $100 more for a console that doesn't offer any better "image quality", only higher FPS at a lower resolution, given that we have quite a few regulars who claim that fps doesn't matter, or they don't notice the difference.

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#38 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7970 Posts

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

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appariti0n

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#39 appariti0n
Member since 2009 • 5011 Posts

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I hope you're right, but I get the feeling that once again, they will build the system as inexpensively as possible in order to target 30 fps 4K. If this means a custom Ryzen variant with 4 cores and no SMT to save $10 per chip, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

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#40  Edited By Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7970 Posts

@appariti0n said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I hope you're right, but I get the feeling that once again, they will build the system as inexpensively as possible in order to target 30 fps 4K. If this means a custom Ryzen variant with 4 cores and no SMT to save $10 per chip, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Well with infinity fabric they could take two 4 cores to make 8 real cores and then disable SMT to reduce TDP but that would be very costly and would require higher yields to pull off for a mass produced product like a console.

It will most likely be a 4 core 8 thread Picasso chip with lower core clocks than a stock chip due to TDP limits and heat of a console, but they may save money and just go with a raven ridge chip like a 2500U with a lower boost clock something like 2.5 to 2.8 GHz.

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VFighter

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#41 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@i_p_daily: Wow, I see your shit posting is still in full effect.

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rzxv04

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#42 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I'd like to be a bit optimistic about the CPU side specially if it's a 2021 actual release. At least 8 Cores / 8 Threads. At least as real as the 8 cores of current gen systems since I'm not sure how gimped the caches are oh similar elements.

We already have a Ryzen mobile SoC that's 12 watts with 4 cores / 8 threads at 2.2 Ghz and that seems to even has a 640 shader GPU.

If the PS4's past could be anything to go by, an unusually high CPU core amount (and low clockspeeds due to being designed more for tablets) seem realistic.

I think you're right that we should expect dynamic res too specially more frequent in the one who's gonna have the weaker console next gen. Even current gen has issues with 30 fps.

To add a little more sadness (depends on how you wanna look at it). RAM/VRAM seem also expensive and I only expect 16 GB total ram for the weakest console. Some of it probably more of a regular VRAM to save cost and only house the OS.

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deactivated-6092a2d005fba

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#43 deactivated-6092a2d005fba
Member since 2015 • 22663 Posts

@vfighter said:

@i_p_daily: Wow, I see your shit posting is still in full effect.

Nah just truth from me for me, i'm sorry it upsets you, but call me when Sony gets a racing game worth while and then we can talk. Now head over to games discussion so your feelings don't get hurt :(

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Martin_G_N

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#44 Martin_G_N
Member since 2006 • 2124 Posts

If they launch both a Pro version and a weak version simultaneously, people will buy the Pro version, and the weak version will be discontinued after a short while, just like with the PS3 20GB. If they release a Pro version later in the gen like they did this gen, people will still buy the weak version. The sweet spot is $400, but a PS5 that starts at 500$ will still sell quite good, and more when the price drops later.

For CPU power I think they will keep it at 8 cores or more, for easier BC support, and the fact that 8 core CPU's will be the standard later. We can hope for 2 threads per core at around 2.2Ghz. And like today, an own ARM CPU for the OS and standby features.

I think the way mobile processors do it may not be so stupid. Mixing efficient low powered cores and high performance cores. The PS5 could potentially have 8 efficient cores like an improved jaguar, and 2 or 4 high performance cores with 2 threads per core.

For memory we can hope it's something fast, instead of having too much slow memory.

The GPU will probably be around 10 - 12Tflops.

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deactivated-5f4e2292197f1

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#45 deactivated-5f4e2292197f1
Member since 2015 • 1374 Posts

Assuming both are great upgrades, I'd do the Pro version if it could do locked frame rates over just capped, and definitely would do it if the games ran at higher fps.

I know I'll buy Xbox's premium console, all the stuff planned is gonna be awesome next gen and plan to get it with type of promises already made, can't say same for PS4 the only now acknowledging they are making one and last when PS2 was super successful their hubris hurt PS3, so cautious with PS5. No doubt I get the $500 Premium version of Xbox, and if I have it, I don't want a base PS4, rather both be premium like I have now, makes my 4KTV more worth it.

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#46 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7970 Posts

@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I'd like to be a bit optimistic about the CPU side specially if it's a 2021 actual release. At least 8 Cores / 8 Threads. At least as real as the 8 cores of current gen systems since I'm not sure how gimped the caches are oh similar elements.

We already have a Ryzen mobile SoC that's 12 watts with 4 cores / 8 threads at 2.2 Ghz and that seems to even has a 640 shader GPU.

If the PS4's past could be anything to go by, an unusually high CPU core amount (and low clockspeeds due to being designed more for tablets) seem realistic.

I think you're right that we should expect dynamic res too specially more frequent in the one who's gonna have the weaker console next gen. Even current gen has issues with 30 fps.

To add a little more sadness (depends on how you wanna look at it). RAM/VRAM seem also expensive and I only expect 16 GB total ram for the weakest console. Some of it probably more of a regular VRAM to save cost and only house the OS.

You can be optimistic as you like but that doesn't change the fact that 8 core mobile ryzen chips dont actually exist nor are they in the pipeline, they max out at 4 cores and 8 threads... The only way to get 8 cores would be to use infinity fabric to essentualy glue 2 chips on to one die which is exactly what the current generation on consoles CPU's are, two 4 core Jaguar chips on one die.

Also 8 cores and 8 threads?... Its just 8 cores, threads are double the amount of cores you have and if its not a SMT chip then its just a 8 core chip. Maybe you are talking about 8 cores and 16 threads?... If so not possible in terms of TDP.

As for your RAM expectations?... GDDR6 is expensive and expecting anything more than 16GB is just delusional.

The next generation will more or less look like:

  • AMD Zen Picasso 4 cores 8 threads at 2.5 - 2.8 GHz or two 4 core chips on one die with SMT disabled making 8 real cores at similar frequencies
  • GDDR6 10-16GB
  • 1TB SSHD
  • Custom Polaris 30 based GPGPU (underclocked RX 670/680s)... Or MAYBE Navi 10
  • 4K Bluray

Navi 10 is rumoured to be Vega level of performance but with lower TDP due to being 7nm, but a console varient would lower the clocks to hit even lower TDP than a desktop so the performance may even match that of a Polaris 30 desktop chip which will more or less be slower than Vega but faster than Polaris 20 making it redundant for console use and rumours always over estimate during console launches, so the safe bet is a Polaris 30 based PS5.

I don't know... But I do know that their are no native 8 core mobile chips from AMD in the works.

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#47  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:
@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I'd like to be a bit optimistic about the CPU side specially if it's a 2021 actual release. At least 8 Cores / 8 Threads. At least as real as the 8 cores of current gen systems since I'm not sure how gimped the caches are oh similar elements.

We already have a Ryzen mobile SoC that's 12 watts with 4 cores / 8 threads at 2.2 Ghz and that seems to even has a 640 shader GPU.

If the PS4's past could be anything to go by, an unusually high CPU core amount (and low clockspeeds due to being designed more for tablets) seem realistic.

I think you're right that we should expect dynamic res too specially more frequent in the one who's gonna have the weaker console next gen. Even current gen has issues with 30 fps.

To add a little more sadness (depends on how you wanna look at it). RAM/VRAM seem also expensive and I only expect 16 GB total ram for the weakest console. Some of it probably more of a regular VRAM to save cost and only house the OS.

You can be optimistic as you like but that doesn't change the fact that 8 core mobile ryzen chips dont actually exist nor are they in the pipeline, they max out at 4 cores and 8 threads... The only way to get 8 cores would be to use infinity fabric to essentualy glue 2 chips on to one die which is exactly what the current generation on consoles CPU's are, two 4 core Jaguar chips on one die.

Also 8 cores and 8 threads?... Its just 8 cores, threads are double the amount of cores you have and if its not a SMT chip then its just a 8 core chip. Maybe you are talking about 8 cores and 16 threads?... If so not possible in terms of TDP.

As for your RAM expectations?... GDDR6 is expensive and expecting anything more than 16GB is just delusional.

The next generation will more or less look like:

  • AMD Zen Picasso 4 cores 8 threads at 2.5 - 2.8 GHz or two 4 core chips on one die with SMT disabled making 8 real cores at similar frequencies
  • GDDR6 10-16GB
  • 1TB SSHD
  • Custom Polaris 30 based GPGPU (underclocked RX 670/680s)... Or MAYBE Navi 10
  • 4K Bluray

Navi 10 is rumoured to be Vega level of performance but with lower TDP due to being 7nm, but a console varient would lower the clocks to hit even lower TDP than a desktop so the performance may even match that of a Polaris 30 desktop chip which will more or less be slower than Vega but faster than Polaris 20 making it redundant for console use and rumours always over estimate during console launches, so the safe bet is a Polaris 30 based PS5.

I don't know... But I do know that their are no native 8 core mobile chips from AMD in the works.

FYI, "Polaris 30" is 12 nm Global Foundry fab'ed GPU which is just Polaris 20 (232 mm2 size at 14 nm) evolution.

A 7 nm could support ~464 mm2 size GPU at 14 nm as ~232 mm2 at 7nm, hence PS5 will NOT be "Polaris 30".

For reference, 14 nm Vega 64 has 486 mm2 size GPU with useless high bandwidth cache.

I prefer for AMD build upon Vega M GH with 24 CU and 64 ROPS and scale this GPU design into 48 CU with 128 ROPS (read/write units are very important to extract performance from compute units). Workloads like crypto-currency uses TMUs at 1.536 Ghz as it's read/write units which enables Vega 64 to rival GTX 1080 Ti (224 TMU units at 1.6 to 1.8 Ghz).

PS4 Pro already has Vega CU RPM (rapid pack math) features hence it wouldn't be any Polaris CU design for PS5.

RX Vega and Xbox One X GPU designs also delivered multi-MB L2 cache for ROPS improvements. This is similar to NVIDIA Maxwell/Pascal ROPS improvements, but AMD didn't reach GP102's 88 ROPS (GTX 1080 Ti) or 96 ROP (Titan XP) design. Vega 64 remained in GP104's 64 ROPS level.

28 nm to 16 nm, PS4 evolved into PS4 Pro with GPU gaining 2.3X compute power, but Sony didn't evolve memory bandwidth by 2.3X (main complaint from devs).

(Speculation, based on history)

1st, 16 nm to 7 nm, PS4 Pro (year 2016 APU design) evolved into PS5 with GPU gaining 2.3X compute power, hence estimated GPU TFLOPS would land around 9.73 TFLOPS FP32. ROPS could evolve into 64 ROPS or 128 ROPS.

2nd, 16 nm to 7 nm, Xbox One X (year 2017 APU design) evolved into PS5 with GPU gaining 2.3X compute power, hence estimated GPU TFLOPS would land around 12 TFLOPS FP32. ROPS could evolve into 64 ROPS or 128 ROPS.

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#48  Edited By rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:
@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I'd like to be a bit optimistic about the CPU side specially if it's a 2021 actual release. At least 8 Cores / 8 Threads. At least as real as the 8 cores of current gen systems since I'm not sure how gimped the caches are oh similar elements.

We already have a Ryzen mobile SoC that's 12 watts with 4 cores / 8 threads at 2.2 Ghz and that seems to even has a 640 shader GPU.

If the PS4's past could be anything to go by, an unusually high CPU core amount (and low clockspeeds due to being designed more for tablets) seem realistic.

I think you're right that we should expect dynamic res too specially more frequent in the one who's gonna have the weaker console next gen. Even current gen has issues with 30 fps.

To add a little more sadness (depends on how you wanna look at it). RAM/VRAM seem also expensive and I only expect 16 GB total ram for the weakest console. Some of it probably more of a regular VRAM to save cost and only house the OS.

You can be optimistic as you like but that doesn't change the fact that 8 core mobile ryzen chips dont actually exist nor are they in the pipeline, they max out at 4 cores and 8 threads... The only way to get 8 cores would be to use infinity fabric to essentualy glue 2 chips on to one die which is exactly what the current generation on consoles CPU's are, two 4 core Jaguar chips on one die.

Also 8 cores and 8 threads?... Its just 8 cores, threads are double the amount of cores you have and if its not a SMT chip then its just a 8 core chip. Maybe you are talking about 8 cores and 16 threads?... If so not possible in terms of TDP.

As for your RAM expectations?... GDDR6 is expensive and expecting anything more than 16GB is just delusional.

The next generation will more or less look like:

  • AMD Zen Picasso 4 cores 8 threads at 2.5 - 2.8 GHz or two 4 core chips on one die with SMT disabled making 8 real cores at similar frequencies
  • GDDR6 10-16GB
  • 1TB SSHD
  • Custom Polaris 30 based GPGPU (underclocked RX 670/680s)... Or MAYBE Navi 10
  • 4K Bluray

Navi 10 is rumoured to be Vega level of performance but with lower TDP due to being 7nm, but a console varient would lower the clocks to hit even lower TDP than a desktop so the performance may even match that of a Polaris 30 desktop chip which will more or less be slower than Vega but faster than Polaris 20 making it redundant for console use and rumours always over estimate during console launches, so the safe bet is a Polaris 30 based PS5.

I don't know... But I do know that their are no native 8 core mobile chips from AMD in the works.

Do they have a mobile part roadmap for 2021 that discounts 8 true cores? Serious question.

I kinda agree with the RAM. Maybe even more expensive with HMB2/3 so those that expected 32 GB ram from early threads are in for disappointment.

Unless I am mistaken the 8 Core Jaguar in 2013 was also a custom part (obviously) and at that time there were no mass consumer 8 core Jaguars for tablets. 2-4 Cores were the common setup for the cheapest tablets/laptops in 2013 and 2014, maybe even today.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/amds-jaguar-architecture-the-cpu-powering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash/4

Shouldn't AMD and Sony have a chance to not conform with common core counts in current line up for laptop hardware as proven with PS4's and XB1's release sometime and somewhat along Temash and Kaveri?

I highly doubt custom Polaris. Probably a custom part that may or may not be easy to compare upon release date but I'd bet it's closer to a "custom" Navi. Maybe custom at Vega at worst where AMD/MS/Sony can finally use those supposed planned but currently missing/unimplemented features in current Vega.

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#49  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:
@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I'd like to be a bit optimistic about the CPU side specially if it's a 2021 actual release. At least 8 Cores / 8 Threads. At least as real as the 8 cores of current gen systems since I'm not sure how gimped the caches are oh similar elements.

We already have a Ryzen mobile SoC that's 12 watts with 4 cores / 8 threads at 2.2 Ghz and that seems to even has a 640 shader GPU.

If the PS4's past could be anything to go by, an unusually high CPU core amount (and low clockspeeds due to being designed more for tablets) seem realistic.

I think you're right that we should expect dynamic res too specially more frequent in the one who's gonna have the weaker console next gen. Even current gen has issues with 30 fps.

To add a little more sadness (depends on how you wanna look at it). RAM/VRAM seem also expensive and I only expect 16 GB total ram for the weakest console. Some of it probably more of a regular VRAM to save cost and only house the OS.

You can be optimistic as you like but that doesn't change the fact that 8 core mobile ryzen chips dont actually exist nor are they in the pipeline, they max out at 4 cores and 8 threads... The only way to get 8 cores would be to use infinity fabric to essentualy glue 2 chips on to one die which is exactly what the current generation on consoles CPU's are, two 4 core Jaguar chips on one die.

Also 8 cores and 8 threads?... Its just 8 cores, threads are double the amount of cores you have and if its not a SMT chip then its just a 8 core chip. Maybe you are talking about 8 cores and 16 threads?... If so not possible in terms of TDP.

As for your RAM expectations?... GDDR6 is expensive and expecting anything more than 16GB is just delusional.

The next generation will more or less look like:

  • AMD Zen Picasso 4 cores 8 threads at 2.5 - 2.8 GHz or two 4 core chips on one die with SMT disabled making 8 real cores at similar frequencies
  • GDDR6 10-16GB
  • 1TB SSHD
  • Custom Polaris 30 based GPGPU (underclocked RX 670/680s)... Or MAYBE Navi 10
  • 4K Bluray

Navi 10 is rumoured to be Vega level of performance but with lower TDP due to being 7nm, but a console varient would lower the clocks to hit even lower TDP than a desktop so the performance may even match that of a Polaris 30 desktop chip which will more or less be slower than Vega but faster than Polaris 20 making it redundant for console use and rumours always over estimate during console launches, so the safe bet is a Polaris 30 based PS5.

I don't know... But I do know that their are no native 8 core mobile chips from AMD in the works.

Do they have a mobile part roadmap for 2021 that discounts 8 true cores? Serious question.

I kinda agree with the RAM. Maybe even more expensive with HMB2/3 so those that expected 32 GB ram from early threads are in for disappointment.

Unless I am mistaken the 8 Core Jaguar in 2013 was also a custom part (obviously) and at that time there were no mass consumer 8 core Jaguars even for tablets. 2-4 Cores were the common setup for the cheapest tablets/laptops in 2013 and 2014, maybe even today.

Shouldn't AMD and Sony has a chance to not conform with common core counts in current line up for laptop hardware as proven with PS4's and XB1's release?

I highly doubt custom Polaris. Probably a custom part that may or may not be easy to compare upon release date but I'd bet it's closer to a "custom" Navi. Maybe custom at Vega at worst where AMD/MS/Sony can finally use those supposed planned but currently missing/unimplemented features in current Vega.

Console's 8 Jaguar setup is just two module 4 core Jaguar near copy-and-paste job, hence AMD's "semi-custom" PR marketing.

Comparison

8 cores with 8 threads Jaguar's FPU/SIMD unit totals

  • 8 FMUL SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operation per cycle per unit.
  • 8 FADD SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operation per cycle per unit.

Two CCX modules equivalent.

Quad cores with 8 threads Ryzen 5/7 mobile (12 to 25 watts) FPU/SIMD unit totals

  • 8 FADD SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operation per cycle per unit.
  • 8 Fused ADD and MUL SIMD at 128 bit width. Two floating point operations per cycle per unit.

Single CCX module.

Eight cores with 16 threads Ryzen 7 FPU/SIMD unit totals

  • 16 FADD SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operation per cycle per unit.
  • 16 Fused ADD and MUL SIMD at 128 bit width. Two floating point operations per cycle per unit.

Two CCX modules.

Future Ryzen at 7nm has 8 cores per CCX module and unknown FPU/SIMD improvements.

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#50 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:
@rzxv04 said:
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

It will be a 4 core 8 thread chip, consoles cannot handle a full blown Ryzen CPU with 8 cores... The TDP is still too high, the only upcoming AMD mobile chips are Raven ridge based which max out at 4 cores and 8 threads, but don't let number fool you those 4 cores and 8 threads are night and day to what the current generation has.

The CPU limitations would not exist so there would be no need for "pro" version that would play 1080/60 since both won't have a issue regardless of core count with Zen CPU's... The real issue is GPU and price, in order to get a GPU better than the X1X you will be looking at PS3 launch all over again in terms of price, focus on price you will end up with a X1X level of GPU but with a CPU that can handle that power.

The un-informed people who are expecting miracles with the coming generation, need to lower their hype because the industry is a open book right now and AMD has little to nothing up their sleeve let alone their road map for the next half decade that will be enough for 4K/60 with console TDP levels.

Also I would like to ad that dynamic resolution will still be a thing regardless of the CPU jump 4K is still a nightmare to run on mid range hardware and if the PS5 gets RX 670 performance you are still looking at 1070 level of performance which is great for 4K/30 with current games but future games we don't know and with poorly optimised games like Final Fantasy and Monster Hunter still around its safe to say that 4K is not guaranteed with the coming generation with every game.

I'd like to be a bit optimistic about the CPU side specially if it's a 2021 actual release. At least 8 Cores / 8 Threads. At least as real as the 8 cores of current gen systems since I'm not sure how gimped the caches are oh similar elements.

We already have a Ryzen mobile SoC that's 12 watts with 4 cores / 8 threads at 2.2 Ghz and that seems to even has a 640 shader GPU.

If the PS4's past could be anything to go by, an unusually high CPU core amount (and low clockspeeds due to being designed more for tablets) seem realistic.

I think you're right that we should expect dynamic res too specially more frequent in the one who's gonna have the weaker console next gen. Even current gen has issues with 30 fps.

To add a little more sadness (depends on how you wanna look at it). RAM/VRAM seem also expensive and I only expect 16 GB total ram for the weakest console. Some of it probably more of a regular VRAM to save cost and only house the OS.

You can be optimistic as you like but that doesn't change the fact that 8 core mobile ryzen chips dont actually exist nor are they in the pipeline, they max out at 4 cores and 8 threads... The only way to get 8 cores would be to use infinity fabric to essentualy glue 2 chips on to one die which is exactly what the current generation on consoles CPU's are, two 4 core Jaguar chips on one die.

Also 8 cores and 8 threads?... Its just 8 cores, threads are double the amount of cores you have and if its not a SMT chip then its just a 8 core chip. Maybe you are talking about 8 cores and 16 threads?... If so not possible in terms of TDP.

As for your RAM expectations?... GDDR6 is expensive and expecting anything more than 16GB is just delusional.

The next generation will more or less look like:

  • AMD Zen Picasso 4 cores 8 threads at 2.5 - 2.8 GHz or two 4 core chips on one die with SMT disabled making 8 real cores at similar frequencies
  • GDDR6 10-16GB
  • 1TB SSHD
  • Custom Polaris 30 based GPGPU (underclocked RX 670/680s)... Or MAYBE Navi 10
  • 4K Bluray

Navi 10 is rumoured to be Vega level of performance but with lower TDP due to being 7nm, but a console varient would lower the clocks to hit even lower TDP than a desktop so the performance may even match that of a Polaris 30 desktop chip which will more or less be slower than Vega but faster than Polaris 20 making it redundant for console use and rumours always over estimate during console launches, so the safe bet is a Polaris 30 based PS5.

I don't know... But I do know that their are no native 8 core mobile chips from AMD in the works.

Do they have a mobile part roadmap for 2021 that discounts 8 true cores? Serious question.

I kinda agree with the RAM. Maybe even more expensive with HMB2/3 so those that expected 32 GB ram from early threads are in for disappointment.

Unless I am mistaken the 8 Core Jaguar in 2013 was also a custom part (obviously) and at that time there were no mass consumer 8 core Jaguars even for tablets. 2-4 Cores were the common setup for the cheapest tablets/laptops in 2013 and 2014, maybe even today.

Shouldn't AMD and Sony has a chance to not conform with common core counts in current line up for laptop hardware as proven with PS4's and XB1's release?

I highly doubt custom Polaris. Probably a custom part that may or may not be easy to compare upon release date but I'd bet it's closer to a "custom" Navi. Maybe custom at Vega at worst where AMD/MS/Sony can finally use those supposed planned but currently missing/unimplemented features in current Vega.

Console's 8 Jaguar setup is just two module 4 core Jaguar near copy-and-paste job, hence AMD's "semi-custom" PR marketing.

Comparison

8 cores with 8 threads Jaguar's FPU/SIMD unit totals

  • 8 FMUL SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operations per cycle per unit.
  • 8 FADD SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operations per cycle per unit.

Two CCX modules equivalent.

Quad cores with 8 threads Ryzen 5/7 mobile (12 to 25 watts) FPU/SIMD unit totals

  • 8 FADD SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operations per cycle per unit.
  • 8 Fused ADD and MUL SIMD at 128 bit width. Two floating point operations per cycle per unit.

Single CCX module.

Eight cores with 16 threads Ryzen 7 FPU/SIMD unit totals

  • 16 FADD SIMD at 128 bit width. Single floating point operations per cycle per unit.
  • 16 Fused ADD and MUL SIMD at 128 bit width. Two floating point operations per cycle per unit.

Two CCX modules.

Future Ryzen at 7nm has 8 cores per CCX module.

And that still makes the copy pasta job unusual from any of the PC lineup for standard consumers around that time. Should they have used "quarter/slightly-custom" instead?

If it's a fact that near future Ryzen (2019?) will have 8 core per CCX as you've mentioned, that gives even more possibility for AMD/Sony/MS to even use just 1 CCX that'll have at the very least 8 cores but I won't be surprised with low clockspeeds anywhere from mid 2 Ghz to low 3 Ghz.

On a tangent, thanks partly to inflation/tariffs, I have a bad feeling the cheapest base system will be $ 499 outside of the supposed weak and more dedicated streamer (which will seem redundant depending on how they implement the product) that's rumored to come with the next gen systems.

I'm not sure when's the exact plateau but we're currently at increasing the core counts of typical "gaming" rigs since Ryzen. By 2021 8 core AMD might be the typical setup for the popular builds by then.

I think there's a marketing aspect to it as well so I'm optimistic AMD/Sony/MS will do their best to get at least 8 cores no matter what (be it older than 2021 architecture/CCXs setups). Heck even for a late 2019 release.

Who knows ofc.