When XB1X / Project Scorpio is no longer the "world's most powerful console" ?
And when do you believe Sony will announce its scorpion-killing beast ?
Not much. Sony is not coming out with Ryzen/Vega console anytime soon. Have you learned nothing by the Scorpio launch? Microsoft has to do their own R/D work to keep the price at 500$ and still using a jaguar CPU from 4 years ago. Sony is not going to release a new console till the parts match the 400$ tag, thats 2 to 3 years away at least.
I think just announcing the PS5 will be interesting on its own. The PS4 right now is single handedly holding up Sony from dipping back into the red. Timing is important on it as they don't want game sales to slow to a point they're back in the red while a new system is eating up funds in R&D costs, and they don't to announce too early while things are good. Timing will have to be just right.
The more important questions should be when will the PS5 launch and how much will it cost? A "mid-cycle" refresh four years into this gen is going to make it difficult for Sony to launch a console in one-two years at a consumer friendly price & be significantly more powerful than the One X. Time will tell though I guess.
Realistically, Xbox One X will hold value (if it does) for its services and lineup, not for the hardware. We'll see how it goes, I wish Microsoft and Xbox One X luck.
I actually think scorpio will decrease in price rather quick when MS see that the consoles is not selling as expected,the biggest competitor of the xbox onx X is not even the PS4 but the xbox one S which cost half and probably less with deals this holiday.
The Pro was launched in 2016 and by then the whole PS4 would be 6 years old,this gen will not be as long as the last one,and sony previews 2 consoles landed 6 year or less after their predecessors launched so it is possible.
@xhawk27: You might want to look up what "mid"-gen means. Or here, I'll just tell you: it's the "middle" of the generation. Pro was clearly marketed as that. It came out 3 years after PS4. Ps5 will come out 3 years after Pro. Simple math... Plus look at history.
The Pro was launched in 2016 and by then the whole PS4 would be 6 years old,this gen will not be as long as the last one,and sony previews 2 consoles landed 6 year or less after their predecessors launched so it is possible.
It won't be until at least 2021, what would they even put in it hardware wise? AMD just now finally released dedicated Vega hardware at 12 Teraflops and that's hardly "next-gen" in terms of what could be expected out of a coming 9th generation console.
The PS5 will release before 2021.. 2019 sounds about right.. but then again who knows. If the PS4 keeps selling like it is then you can expect that the PS4 will be sold and developed for a couple years into the PS5's lifecycle.
All I know is that gaming is finally starting to heat up a little again. It's been long enough.. that much is certain.
The PS5 will release before 2021.. 2019 sounds about right.. but then again who knows. If the PS4 keeps selling like it is then you can expect that the PS4 will be sold and developed for a couple years into the PS5's lifecycle.
All I know is that gaming is finally starting to heat up a little again. It's been long enough.. that much is certain.
If you actually understand hardware road maps you would know that anything before 2021 is unrealistic, not because something couldn't be done but rather because what could be done wouldn't be justifiable as a next-generation system.
The PS5 will release before 2021.. 2019 sounds about right.. but then again who knows. If the PS4 keeps selling like it is then you can expect that the PS4 will be sold and developed for a couple years into the PS5's lifecycle.
All I know is that gaming is finally starting to heat up a little again. It's been long enough.. that much is certain.
If you actually understand hardware road maps you would know that anything before 2021 is unrealistic, not because something couldn't be done but rather because what could be done wouldn't be justifiable as a next-generation system.
lol.... whatever you say.
I'm not sure what is more funny, the fact you believe you know something everyone else doesn't, or the fact you think your opinion is more informed than mine.
Don't ever question what I understand, because it's all but guaranteed that's not a road you want to travel down... If you believe that the PS5 will not get released until 2021 I'm not even sure what to say other than to grab your helmet and crayons, get back on your tricycle, and pedal yourself back under the bridge.
You are saying that SONY will roll over and let the Xbox One X be the strongest console on the market (a 3/4 step, not a 1/2 step like the pro) for well over three years, and that SONY will have it's longest console generation by over 2 years before releasing their next console. You do realize they can release their next console and still develop for the PS4 right? Not to mention the fact that means that the PS4 pro which is a "mid gen" upgrade would be on the market as SONY's most powerful console for over 2 years longer than the original PS4...
I understand what you are saying with the whole incremental increase in power, but MS held off for quite a long time before releasing the specs of a much more powerful console in the X1X. It's not like the PS5 has to be twice as strong as the X1X... The increase in power will likely be about the same as the leap from the PS4 to the PS4 pro.. not the difference between the Xbox 1 and the Xbox 1 X.
I'm sure any of the big three would love to have you around to let them know when it's ok to start developing their next console. Hell, you probably wouldn't even need a resume.. they'd take one look at you and hire you on the spot. I sure hope you're are either a kid or a Pachter in training.
You want to know what will happen after the PS5 specs are revealed? MS will announce something within a year or so that beats those specs as well, and so continues the cycle... #crystalball
Your logic is so flawed it's borderline funny and almost not even worth a response, but I figured I'd play along to humor the other warriors.
I would suggest staying away from any Casinos or the stock market... but if you're in the market for another bridge, I might have one to sell you.
None? The Xbox One X is doomed from the get go with its $500 price tag. Sony doesn't give a shit about having the most powerful console, especially when they are raking in the profits. They didn't give a crap during the 6th generation either when the PS2 dominated the market despite being the weakest console on the market.
None? The Xbox One X is doomed from the get go with its $500 price tag. Sony doesn't give a shit about having the most powerful console, especially when they are raking in the profits. They didn't give a crap during the 6th generation either when the PS2 dominated the market despite being the weakest console on the market.
They cared enough to put in the tagline "the worlds most powerful console" in it's adverts. So to say they don't give a shit is not true.
I don't see what's so funny about that. It's right in line with a mid gen release of the pro, and follows the same timeline and trend of their other consoles lifetimes before releasing their next console.
2019 Makes the most sense of all... I can tell you one thing, it wont be 2021.
None? The Xbox One X is doomed from the get go with its $500 price tag. Sony doesn't give a shit about having the most powerful console, especially when they are raking in the profits. They didn't give a crap during the 6th generation either when the PS2 dominated the market despite being the weakest console on the market.
I too believe at that price point the X1X is doomed. Although I will likely buy one at some point, it wont be at that price. I imagine it will drop to $400 rather quickly.
PS fans need to come to grip that PS will likely never have the power advantage again. Sony will continue to put out high quality consoles but will never be the power advantage they held til now. It's not a bad thing. They will still get Japanese support first. (If you're into that) Good exclusives, etc. But bye bye on the power advantage.
Xbox One X although not a next gen console will be able to go there when Sony decides to release and will leave the OG and S owners behind. They will continue to put out monsters and raise the bar and simply let Sony play their hand first from here out, and continue the awesome BC policy and pro consumer line all the way.
Xbox is looking into the future more than Sony. Say what you will for now, but the moves they are making for any Dev making a game on PC it's a no brainer to put it on Xbox (Xbox one X for now) because it hardly takes any time. Xbox's bread and butter were the power and ease of use for Devs. They are finally getting back there.
Random thought. I really wonder how far we are from are consoles being a USB drive we plug into a TV or PC and everything Cloud. 10 years? I see MS more Ready than Sony.
I don't see what's so funny about that. It's right in line with a mid gen release of the pro, and follows the same timeline and trend of their other consoles lifetimes before releasing their next console.
2019 Makes the most sense of all... I can tell you one thing, it wont be 2021.
Looking at today's prices of the new Vega card and Ryzen CPUs that's why I am laughing. If the PS5 is released in 2019 enjoy paying at least $599 for it. lol
PS fans need to come to grip that PS will likely never have the power advantage again. Sony will continue to put out high quality consoles but will never be the power advantage they held til now. It's not a bad thing. They will still get Japanese support first. (If you're into that) Good exclusives, etc. But bye bye on the power advantage.
Xbox One X although not a next gen console will be able to go there when Sony decides to release and will leave the OG and S owners behind. They will continue to put out monsters and raise the bar and simply let Sony play their hand first from here out, and continue the awesome BC policy and pro consumer line all the way.
Xbox is looking into the future more than Sony. Say what you will for now, but the moves they are making for any Dev making a game on PC it's a no brainer to put it on Xbox (Xbox one X for now) because it hardly takes any time. Xbox's bread and butter were the power and ease of use for Devs. They are finally getting back there.
Random thought. I really wonder how far we are from are consoles being a USB drive we plug into a TV or PC and everything Cloud. 10 years? I see MS more Ready than Sony.
It's Sony's repeated pattern with the smaller chip size e.g.
XBO's 363 mm2 vs PS4's 348 mm2, MS used their chip budget to support Kinect.
X1X's 360 mm2 vs PS4 Pro's 321 mm2, MS used their chip budget to support max GPU size without Kinect.
I don't see what's so funny about that. It's right in line with a mid gen release of the pro, and follows the same timeline and trend of their other consoles lifetimes before releasing their next console.
2019 Makes the most sense of all... I can tell you one thing, it wont be 2021.
Looking at today's prices of the new Vega card and Ryzen CPUs that's why I am laughing. If the PS5 is released in 2019 enjoy paying at least $599 for it. lol
Next gen generation consoles should use 7 nm process node for NAVI 11 type GPU. AMD's mid range GPU chip size is nearly consistent e.g.
Pitcairn = 212 mm2, 28 nm
Polaris 10/20 = 232 mm2, 14 nm
NAVI 11 replaces both Vega 11 and Polaris 10/20. Hope AMD departs from their Polaris level memory compression when NAVI lands.
The largest problem is DRAM's lack of low cost with high performance. Both MS and Sony used lower cost mainstream GDDR5-6800 and GDDR5-7000 chips respectively, when there's two higher GDDR5 tiers e.g. GDDR5-8000 and GDDR5-9000 variants. For X1X, MS used 384 bit bus with lower cost GDDR5-6800 ram chips. Sony decided to copy RX-470D's memory setup with 256bit GDDR5-7000.
Non-existent GDDR6-14000 with 256 bit bus yields 448 GB/s memory bandwidth. Current fastest GDDR5 is GDDR5X-11000 variant which is not low cost.
"My next piece of plastic will be better than your current piece of plastic until you get your next piece of plastic." - Meanwhile enthusiast Pcs are at least 2 gens ahead. I don't think the Ps5 will come close to the best single cards and that's before SLI xD
It will undoubtedly be deemed worthless once the next gen Xbox comes out. But even with PS5, the difference in games is still enough to keep the One X relevant. Still can't play Halo, Forza, or Gears of War on PS5.
I actually think scorpio will decrease in price rather quick when MS see that the consoles is not selling as expected,the biggest competitor of the xbox onx X is not even the PS4 but the xbox one S which cost half and probably less with deals this holiday.
No, afraid not, you're forgetting the Nintendo Switch!
As new hardware on the market, the Nintendo Switch is the X factor that MS didn't calculate into their power power power uncompromised 4k narrative when going into 2017 only thinking about fighting Sony.
lol, Nintendo completely blindsided them with the success of Switch and they are going to eat away at a large percent of the undecided customers out there who might have got an X if they were only looking at the Pro or X as new systems this holiday.
It won't be until at least 2021, what would they even put in it hardware wise? AMD just now finally released dedicated Vega hardware at 12 Teraflops and that's hardly "next-gen" in terms of what could be expected out of a coming 9th generation console.
I actually think scorpio will decrease in price rather quick when MS see that the consoles is not selling as expected,the biggest competitor of the xbox onx X is not even the PS4 but the xbox one S which cost half and probably less with deals this holiday.
No, afraid not, you're forgetting the Nintendo Switch!
As new hardware on the market, the Nintendo Switch is the X factor that MS didn't calculate into their power power power uncompromised 4k narrative when going into 2017 only thinking about fighting Sony.
lol, Nintendo completely blindsided them with the success of Switch and they are going to eat away at a large percent of the undecided customers out there who might have got an X if they were only looking at the Pro or X as new systems this holiday.
There's nothing new with a mobile device with good sales. Laptop PCs has unit sales superiority over desktop PCs. Most new laptop PC sales runs with MS Windows 10.
They cared enough to put in the tagline "the worlds most powerful console" in it's adverts. So to say they don't give a shit is not true.
So advertising your product as the most powerful mean they care about power.?
lol
They don't the N64 was more powerful than the PS1 and the xbox more powerful than the PS2,the 360 was about even an the normal PS4 was stronger,so i say they were more behind than ahead..
@xhawk27 said:
Looking at today's prices of the new Vega card and Ryzen CPUs that's why I am laughing. If the PS5 is released in 2019 enjoy paying at least $599 for it. lol
Yes because in 2 years prices never go down and new models don't arrive..
You will not see another $600 console from sony again.
@lexxluger said:
No, afraid not, you're forgetting the Nintendo Switch!
As new hardware on the market, the Nintendo Switch is the X factor that MS didn't calculate into their power power power uncompromised 4k narrative when going into 2017 only thinking about fighting Sony.
lol, Nintendo completely blindsided them with the success of Switch and they are going to eat away at a large percent of the undecided customers out there who might have got an X if they were only looking at the Pro or X as new systems this holiday.
No i didn't in fact i even admit NIntendo is taking more gamers from MS side than sony side,but i am talking about some one who want mostly 3rd parties which could look at the xbox as a viable platform,much like the pro vs the slim the slim simply decimated the Pro sales,and it was just $100 more,imagine the xbox one X which is $250 more and on this holiday with some deals you probably could get it for $200 the disparity in price to play the exact same games is to big.
Add to this that MS sold the xbox one S as a platform that can upscale to 4k,and has UHD movies as well,so many people can opt for getting an S model than an X model the price disparity is just to big.
I actually think scorpio will decrease in price rather quick when MS see that the consoles is not selling as expected,the biggest competitor of the xbox onx X is not even the PS4 but the xbox one S which cost half and probably less with deals this holiday.
No, afraid not, you're forgetting the Nintendo Switch!
As new hardware on the market, the Nintendo Switch is the X factor that MS didn't calculate into their power power power uncompromised 4k narrative when going into 2017 only thinking about fighting Sony.
lol, Nintendo completely blindsided them with the success of Switch and they are going to eat away at a large percent of the undecided customers out there who might have got an X if they were only looking at the Pro or X as new systems this holiday.
There's nothing new with a mobile device with good sales. Laptop PCs has unit sales superiority over desktop PCs. Most new laptop PC sales runs with MS Windows 10.
Uh Is there a point to your post or are you just spamming miscellaneous information just because?
I don't see what's so funny about that. It's right in line with a mid gen release of the pro, and follows the same timeline and trend of their other consoles lifetimes before releasing their next console.
2019 Makes the most sense of all... I can tell you one thing, it wont be 2021.
Looking at today's prices of the new Vega card and Ryzen CPUs that's why I am laughing. If the PS5 is released in 2019 enjoy paying at least $599 for it. lol
Next gen generation consoles should use 7 nm process node for NAVI 11 type GPU. AMD's mid range GPU chip size is nearly consistent e.g.
Pitcairn = 212 mm2, 28 nm
Polaris 10/20 = 232 mm2, 14 nm
NAVI 11 replaces both Vega 11 and Polaris 10/20. Hope AMD departs from their Polaris level memory compression when NAVI lands.
The largest problem is DRAM's lack of low cost with high performance. Both MS and Sony used lower cost mainstream GDDR5-6800 and GDDR5-7000 chips respectively, when there's two higher GDDR5 tiers e.g. GDDR5-8000 and GDDR5-9000 variants. For X1X, MS used 384 bit bus with lower cost GDDR5-6800 ram chips. Sony decided to copy RX-470D's memory setup with 256bit GDDR5-7000.
Non-existent GDDR6-14000 with 256 bit bus yields 448 GB/s memory bandwidth. Current fastest GDDR5 is GDDR5X-11000 variant which is not low cost.
The following is from exactly 1 year ago, and hopefully there will be some updated info this year at Hot Chips 2018.
HBM3: Cheaper, up to 64GB on-package, and terabytes-per-second bandwidth
Despite first- and second-generation High Bandwidth Memory having made few appearances in shipping products, Samsung and Hynix are already working on a followup: HBM3. Teased at the Hot Chips symposium in Cupertino, Calfornia, HBM3 will offer improved density, bandwidth, and power efficiency. Perhaps most importantly though, given the high cost of HBM1 and HBM2, HBM3 will be cheaper to produce.
With conventional memory setups, RAM chips are placed next to each other on a circuit board, usually as close as possible to the logic device (CPU or GPU) that needs access to the RAM. HBM, however, stacks a bunch of RAM dies (dice?) on top of each other, connecting them directly with through-silicon vias (TSVs). These stacks of RAM are then placed on the logic chip package, which reduces the surface area of the device (AMD's Fury Nano is a prime example), and potentially provides a massive boost in bandwidth.
The tradeoff, though, as with most fancy packaging techniques, has been price and capacity. HBM1, as used in AMD's Fury graphics cards, was limited to 4GB stacks. HBM2, as used in Nvidia's workstation-only P100 graphics card, features higher density stacks up up to 16GB, but is prohibitively expensive for consumer cards.
HBM3 will double density of the individual memory dies from 8Gb to 16Gb (~2GB), and will allow for more than eight dies to be stacked together in a single chip. Graphics cards with up to 64GB of memory are possible.
HBM3 will feature a lower core voltage than the 1.2V of HBM2, as well as more than two times the peak bandwidth: HBM2 offers 256GB/s of bandwidth per layer of DRAM, while HBM3 doubles that to 512GB/s. The total amount of memory bandwidth available could well be terabytes per second.
Both Hynix and Samsung are working on HBM3 (Samsung is calling its version "Extreme HBM"), although neither has committed to a firm release date. AMD's current GPU roadmap points to its Navi architecture—the follow up to Vega, which itself follows Polaris—using "NextGen memory," and is due for release in 2018.
Will find out in 3-4 years, good thing is wont have to worry about the next sony/ms systems because x1x going to be adequate for awhile even when the next gen systems arrive.
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