Hellblade... Why...?

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Warm_Gun

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#1 Warm_Gun  Online
Member since 2021 • 2409 Posts

Hellblade has puzzles, but they are of the "Where's Waldo?" variety. Runes start appearing once you are in the general vicinity of the pattern you have to focus on. Easy. I know that the game is supposed to be about the mind (Hah!) and that some people pay more attention to patterns in their world (I used to obsess over that stuff when I was a kid.), but it shows a lack of thought. What I mean is that they designed the level, then put the patterns in after. They could have been placed anywhere. Why would you give them high scores for skipping the work, which would be designing the level as a puzzle? Remember that scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where Indy takes the leap of faith and then the camera turns to reveal he is walking on a kind of optical illusion? There is some of that in here too. You have to look at the illusion from the right angle for bridges to solidify. It's a little cleverer than the "Where's Waldo?" stuff.

Playing on Hard combat difficulty (the highest available), I only died once against regular enemies, very early on when I was still figuring out the system, and maybe three times against one later boss. It's a really basic and forgiving system. Her hit points regenerate in combat. She is an averaged-sized woman, maybe five feet four inches, fighting men four times as big as her. I'm supposed to believe that she could stun lock these hulking giants (almost nine feet tall) by throwing straight forward kicks? That she could break through their solid parries or parry the attacks they deliver with arms thick as logs head on? For a game this grim and visually realistic, the fighting is absurd. It doesn't matter if they are phantoms and figments of her mind. The problem with that excuse is that before she came to this place she was taught to fight like men, against enemies who would be bigger and stronger than her. Viking warriors with much more mass, powered by testosterone. She learned to fight, at least initially, by watching her love. If he cared for her, he would have helped her to realize how limited she physically was and taught her to make up for her smaller size and weaker power by using her wits and building her other attributes up more, perhaps making her more of a sneaky, resourceful runner. Or at least put her in a place where she might figure those things out for herself. If these demonic warriors are her fears corporealized, then think about how comically delusional she must be to imagine herself beating them down like little boys, wiping the floor with them, even when it's three or four giants against her. That is what I did through almost the entire game: I wiped the floor with almost everything this hell threw at me, dodging most attacks (dodging physically THROUGH their attacks), my enemies constantly staggered by her unlimited stamina before they could deliver a blow. The voices always told me when the enemies who were not in the overly cramped field of view fixed on her back were about to strike. Once you get the mirror ability that slows them in time, forget about it! THIS is supposed to be her hell? Owning all? It's difficult to think of how she would take them on with any credibility. If we make her taller and significantly more muscular than the vast majority of women, then that just concedes the real problem: men and women aren't the same; a man will almost always win in physical combat. But that makes you wonder why every cinematic story-driven game has to be about defeating hordes, waves, armies of enemies anyway, and it brings me back to the alternative I proposed before. Why can't she instead hide, flee, defend, and only take on the enemy directly when an opportunity that disadvantages one presents itself? The player could have activated events and interacted with objects in the environment that gradually disadvantaged him. For the sake of the intended story, she would still have been a warrior, with agility, stamina and strength, but one who understood and heeded her physical limitations and used the tools available to her. When the enemy did take her on directly while at his best, she would have suffered and might have only gotten away by stabbing/jabbing repeatedly or biting or kicking while in his grasp. I would have increased the field of view and not fixed the camera behind her back for this mix of mechanics. Again, the overwhelming focus on shooting and hitting in nearly all of these types of action-adventure games is tiresome anyway.

The storytelling reminds me of Gone Home, that walking game from a few years ago that for some reason received all those rave reviews, in that without other people anywhere, with only memories of things that already happened, or in the case of Hellblade, spirits and voices in the head to speak to, you don't feel that invested in what is actually going on. None of the characters are tangible. I'm supposed to care because the voices tell me to as I have to watch Senua scream and suffer, on and on. (Why did the creators think that was an entertaining idea for a story? If it was nightmarish horror, then maybe, but this developer only makes action games with a high emphasis on melee combat. They don't know fear.) As if nightmares don't have people in them and the road to hell shouldn't have characters. It's a lot of audio-only exposition for a story-driven game this long. I don't really care about how inaccurate the psychological aspect is, but it's pretty embarrassing that the developers gave that medical notice in the opening when all their research amounted to finding patterns, being belittled and discouraged by the voices, and swordfighting.

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising. I put on my headphones, but it only ever sounded like stereo, the left and right. "Binaural recording," they called it, the same technology used for that impressive barbershop demo on YouTube, where the scissors appear to go all around you. Trying the game out with speakers, I found that the internal voices never or barely appeared in the surround speakers and the environment didn't use multichannel audio well. The game is best with headphones, but not what was promised in that configuration. I turned off the chromatic abberation with the files. Tried increasing the field of view as well with those files, but it looked weird. It created a fish eye effect because of where the camera was fixed. Did not find a way to turn off the dumb permanent screen dirt/moisture.

What do you see in this game?

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hardwenzen

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#2 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 38854 Posts

They should ask Santa Monica how to create a proper challenge.

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above_average

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#3 above_average
Member since 2021 • 1566 Posts

Careful, you run the risk of getting flamed by the xbox/MS extremists on this board who only have Hellblade 2 to look forward to as their graphics king...regardless of it being a slow cinematic walking simulator which they've all claimed they hate so much.

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Archangel3371

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#4 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44161 Posts

Not going to lie, I barely read any of that. 😅

Anyway I played some of it on the Xbox One and rather enjoyed the game. Thought it looked quite good, combat was interesting enough to keep me invested, and thought it had a neat premise to it. Need to get back at it and finish it up. Am also looking forward to the sequel.

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KathaarianCode

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#5 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3398 Posts

I enjoyed it. Writing and sound design were solid, pretty to look at and short. I wish the second one was also a short one and not some bloated movie game.

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DaVillain

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#6 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56094 Posts

Too much for me to read all of that. Look, I like Hellblade, it has Norse mythology stuff and that's all you need to know. Pretty good game for a walking sim.

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Randy_Lahey

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#7 Randy_Lahey
Member since 2022 • 1803 Posts

This “game” stinks

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xantufrog

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#8  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

Hellblade in VR is so so good. It transforms the game. Super immersive combat is quite visceral when your actual head is on-the-swivel to monitor parties of enemies

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regnaston

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#9 regnaston
Member since 2008 • 4681 Posts

@Archangel3371 said:

Not going to lie, I barely read any of that. 😅

Anyway I played some of it on the Xbox One and rather enjoyed the game. Thought it looked quite good, combat was interesting enough to keep me invested, and thought it had a neat premise to it. Need to get back at it and finish it up. Am also looking forward to the sequel.

@davillain said:

Too much for me to read all of that. Look, I like Hellblade, it has Norse mythology stuff and that's all you need to know. Pretty good game for a walking sim.

yeah once I saw it was longer than 10 lines I just ignored the post. The OP could have good points, but people need to learn to be succinct in their posting

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Pedro

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#10 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69456 Posts

@xantufrog said:

Hellblade in VR is so so good. It transforms the game. Super immersive combat is quite visceral when your actual head is on-the-swivel to monitor parties of enemies

I may try the VR version but I don't have high hopes that my view would change.

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mrbojangles25

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#11 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58300 Posts

Hellblade was never a traditional game from the start. It was really an artistic piece, something made with the intent to a.) raise awareness to a cause (that being mental illness), and b.) never intended to be profitable (even though it garnered a lot of success and awards), and c.) incorporate design and gameplay elements that might not be conventional or what people even enjoy.

I think that is important context to keep in mind when judging the game.

I thought it was a really interesting game that sort of pushed the boundaries of "there's more to games than gameplay" while still being enjoyable enough to play.

Those looking for combat, combo systems, etc. akin to their favorite action games should look elsewhere. Those wanting really tough puzzles should look elsewhere. Hellblade is about art and style and stuff like that.

I highly recommend watching the development diaries, they're really interesting and provide some good background.

I wouldn't recommend the game to people that are casual or don't have an appreciation for art, and just want to play a game to smash enemies and have fun. But if you're curious, want to learn about stuff, and maybe get a different frame of reference for what a game can be, then it's worth a shot.

Not trying to sound like a hipster or anything, I just think Hellblade was a neat project. And how much can you complain? The game was 30 dollars and all profits (iirc) went to benefit mental illness.

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nepu7supastar7

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#12 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@warm_gun:

Mehh...I played it on the Switch cuz I thought it was interesting. The combat was great, and the graphics were awesome even for the Switch but................

.........there's not much to the game. The story was dull and it only reminded you that you're basically the only person in this game. So it's kinda more of a mindfuck than anything. So if you're not into those, it's going to bore you to tears.

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lamprey263

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#13  Edited By lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44560 Posts

Decent story and presentation and creepy atmosphere but yeah combat has never been a strength of Ninja Theory games, it was at best serviceable for the game, maybe the one exception in their game history for better combat being their DMC game which was excellent but I'd of hoped some of it would rub off on them, there must have been a good degree of support from Capcom prepaired before their involvement. Maybe because Hellblade was a self funded passion project they didn't have resources needed to make gameplay more robust, they even had to use one of their own programmers for the motion captures for Senua, so definitely a budgeted title for them. Hopefully with MS backing them the sequel can do better there.

I'd say Enslaved is a perfect example of an exceptional experience in story that managed to surpass some their pretty janky gameplay. I still look forward to the sequel, hoping they can do much better. I know there's talent there just rooting for them to finally nail it.

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NfamousLegend

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#14 NfamousLegend
Member since 2016 • 1001 Posts

No one gonna read all that mate. If you can't get your point across in a few sentences then don't bother.

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Warm_Gun

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#15  Edited By Warm_Gun  Online
Member since 2021 • 2409 Posts
@nfamouslegend said:

No one gonna read all that mate. If you can't get your point across in a few sentences then don't bother.

Posted it elsewhere. A few people read it, judging from the ratings received and one response. (This is the only place where I made it a thread, because there are no dedicated threads for games that stay open.) Maybe not so much here, though. There isn't a thing I'd cut. Must be dreaming if you think I'd sabotage my arguments by cutting them down to "a few sentences." It's not much. Not like one of those YouTube essays.

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NfamousLegend

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#16 NfamousLegend
Member since 2016 • 1001 Posts

@warm_gun: I can respect that, these threads are better than most on the dead system wars unfortunately. They heyday of 2005 is truly gone.

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rmpumper

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#17 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2134 Posts

It's a tech demo made into a game. You expected too much of the gameplay.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#18 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13664 Posts

@randy_lahey said:

This “game” stinks

Why are you putting that in quotes. It's a movie game. Sure it stinks, IT REALLY REALLY stinks, the whole abomination genre effing STINKS, includes MS games like Ryse, Quantum Break and Hellblade.

The irony of a cow putting game in quotes.

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KathaarianCode

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#19 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3398 Posts

@mrbojangles25: It's also important to keep in mind that this was an indie game and they tried to do as much as possible within their limitations and they still managed to deliver an impressive audiovisual experience.

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nepu7supastar7

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#20 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet:

I think Hellblade is much worse than most "movie" games people drone on Sony for making. It has repetitive enemies, zero NPC's and it relies everything on puzzles. It's not even close to the same ballpark as Uncharted or Last of Us. Those games are actually fun and exciting with solid goals and frameworks that keep the game play fresh. Whatever stigma you have towards those games, the truth is that they're completely different than the game of this topic. Like them or not. Hellblade took zero influence from them in terms of design and it shows the moment you start the game. It sucks for its own reasons.

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simple-facts

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#21  Edited By simple-facts
Member since 2021 • 2592 Posts

Hellblade was a timed Sony console exclusive so I guarantee they had an input into the game possibly the easy puzzle design,look at god of war Ragnaroks easy puzzles,even funnier is the little brat even tells you what to do if you go chest or resource hunting before you tackle said puzzle.

Now MS Xbox studios has the game it will improve immensely

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st_monica

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#22  Edited By st_monica
Member since 2020 • 1454 Posts

To be honest, it was a rough game in many ways, especially its combat was very shallow, but I managed to play through it anyway; when I played it in 2017, it didn't leave much of an impression on me because there were so many other great games out there.

The attempts to reflect the experience of mental disorder in the game ( i.e., the main character has hallucinations and delusions, hears various spirit voices in her head, etc.) might be interesting for some, but in the end I got fed up with such pseudo-"artistic" attempts rather than engaging the player in entertainment. I ended up not wanting to replay it or play the sequel.

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thedork_knight

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#23  Edited By thedork_knight
Member since 2011 • 2664 Posts

What year is this?

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firedrakes

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#24 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 4365 Posts

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising.

then you fail for sony pr dept and also dont understand how audio works.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#25 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13664 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@HalcyonScarlet:

I think Hellblade is much worse than most "movie" games people drone on Sony for making. It has repetitive enemies, zero NPC's and it relies everything on puzzles. It's not even close to the same ballpark as Uncharted or Last of Us. Those games are actually fun and exciting with solid goals and frameworks that keep the game play fresh. Whatever stigma you have towards those games, the truth is that they're completely different than the game of this topic. Like them or not. Hellblade took zero influence from them in terms of design and it shows the moment you start the game. It sucks for its own reasons.

They still have a lot of those movie game elements. I've played the beginning parts of The Last of Us, Uncharted, God of War, Hellblade, Ryse, Quantum Break. SO MUCH tedious cinematic walking. I'll give you that this is pretty much a lot of Hellblade. And they all have differences, different game play when you actually get to the gameplay, but what they do have in common are the worst parts of movie games.

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GNS

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#26 GNS
Member since 2015 • 921 Posts

Never completed it and I ain't looking forward to the second part either. Not my cup of tea.

She is an averaged-sized woman, maybe five feet four inches, fighting men four times as big as her. I'm supposed to believe that she could stun lock these hulking giants (almost nine feet tall) by throwing straight forward kicks? That she could break through their solid parries or parry the attacks they deliver with arms thick as logs head on?

You don't have to believe anything. It's fiction. They could have made the main character Kermit the Frog doing all this stuff.

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Sushiglutton

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#27 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 9853 Posts

It was a solid 6/10 game. Gameplay was sub par. It managed to be repetetive despite being so short. Still you could see that some passion had gone into creating the main character (well acted) and her mental stuggles.

Not what I want from a game personally.

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Litchie

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#28 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34602 Posts

Whoa, text.

Anywho, not interested in the game at all. Haven't played it and never will, will not play the sequel.

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Warm_Gun

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#29  Edited By Warm_Gun  Online
Member since 2021 • 2409 Posts
@firedrakes said:

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising.

then you fail for sony pr dept and also dont understand how audio works.

I don't even have a PS5. Sony should have gone with Atmos for speakers instead of Tempest for headphones. Because headphones can't replicate the power of a subwoofer and an LFE channel and the sense of space of speakers. Find it funny that Returnal will have Atmos on computers.

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pelvist

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#30 pelvist
Member since 2010 • 9001 Posts

I didn't recon much to it. 5/10 game IMO.

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DaVillain

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#31 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56094 Posts

Are people really saying Hellblade is a movie eer I mean a cinematic drive game when it clearly is a walking sim?

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Pedro

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#32 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69456 Posts

@davillain said:

Are people really saying Hellblade is a movie eer I mean a cinematic drive game when it clearly is a walking sim?

What is the difference?😎

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xantufrog

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#33 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@Pedro: I think if you don’t like the core of what the game is, vr can’t save it for you. I loved feeling like I was walking through that journey through madness with her. it worked purely as an interactive vr movie for me in that regard. But like I said above I think it really elevated the combat experience too

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Pedro

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#34 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69456 Posts

@xantufrog said:

@Pedro: I think if you don’t like the core of what the game is, vr can’t save it for you. I loved feeling like I was walking through that journey through madness with her. it worked purely as an interactive vr movie for me in that regard. But like I said above I think it really elevated the combat experience too

Ok, I will try it in VR when I am desperate.😅 Currently jumping back into Alyx after 2 years of abandoning it.

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Randy_Lahey

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#35 Randy_Lahey
Member since 2022 • 1803 Posts

@simple-facts said:

Hellblade was a timed Sony console exclusive so I guarantee they had an input into the game possibly the easy puzzle design,look at god of war Ragnaroks easy puzzles,even funnier is the little brat even tells you what to do if you go chest or resource hunting before you tackle said puzzle.

Now MS Xbox studios has the game it will improve immensely

Here’s a simple fact for you: your posts are nonsense and you should feel bad.

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with_teeth26

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#36 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11511 Posts

I definitely didn't find much to enjoy in it... story didn't click with me, didn't like the gameplay or the puzzles.

I've really enjoyed some story driven games like Telltale's better games or Plague Tale but I bailed on Hellblade after a few hours.

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nepu7supastar7

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#37 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet:

"Cinematic walking" is literally just walking straight for a few minutes. I've never had moments where it feels like I'm dragging virtual feet across the floor. Unless you have ADD, they're moments hardly worth mentioning. And they're something modern video games do in general to give players more back story. It's better than watching walking segments in cut scenes. I guess it makes the storytelling feel seemless? But anyway, Sony games *use* it but they didn't INVENT the damn idea. Blame modern day AAA games.

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TheEroica

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#38  Edited By TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 22673 Posts

@Archangel3371: congrats on 40k posts!

Same... I give tc a couple paragraphs and then I'm out!

I just bought hell blade to play on the deck once I'm done with No man's sky.... Which will be like 30 years from now... Holy crqp nms is addicting.

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firedrakes

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#39 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 4365 Posts

@warm_gun said:
@firedrakes said:

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising.

then you fail for sony pr dept and also dont understand how audio works.

I don't even have a PS5. Sony should have gone with Atmos for speakers instead of Tempest for headphones. Because headphones can't replicate the power of a subwoofer and an LFE channel and the sense of space of speakers. Find it funny that Returnal will have Atmos on computers.

idk why sony gimp the hdmi port for the ps5.

that affected the sound to.

what odder is sony have made in the past good spacial audio in head phones. but those are costly ones.

you needed a cord to . for them.

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Warm_Gun

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#40 Warm_Gun  Online
Member since 2021 • 2409 Posts

@firedrakes said:
@warm_gun said:
@firedrakes said:

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising.

then you fail for sony pr dept and also dont understand how audio works.

I don't even have a PS5. Sony should have gone with Atmos for speakers instead of Tempest for headphones. Because headphones can't replicate the power of a subwoofer and an LFE channel and the sense of space of speakers. Find it funny that Returnal will have Atmos on computers.

idk why sony gimp the hdmi port for the ps5.

that affected the sound to.

what odder is sony have made in the past good spacial audio in head phones. but those are costly ones.

you needed a cord to . for them.

What's wrong with the HDMI port?

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Archangel3371

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#41 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44161 Posts

@TheEroica: Oh wow! I hit 40K. Thanks. 👍

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Randy_Lahey

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#42 Randy_Lahey
Member since 2022 • 1803 Posts

@warm_gun said:
@firedrakes said:
@warm_gun said:
@firedrakes said:

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising.

then you fail for sony pr dept and also dont understand how audio works.

I don't even have a PS5. Sony should have gone with Atmos for speakers instead of Tempest for headphones. Because headphones can't replicate the power of a subwoofer and an LFE channel and the sense of space of speakers. Find it funny that Returnal will have Atmos on computers.

idk why sony gimp the hdmi port for the ps5.

that affected the sound to.

what odder is sony have made in the past good spacial audio in head phones. but those are costly ones.

you needed a cord to . for them.

What's wrong with the HDMI port?

Nothing. He’s spreading FUD

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Jendeh

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#43 Jendeh
Member since 2004 • 734 Posts

I think it's important to go into Hellblade with the proper expectations. It's a walking simulator. Which...isn't an insult as I enjoy quite a few of them.

It's approach to mental health issues was quite novel and it was a beautiful game. I'll play the sequel when it comes out but it's not an amazing game or a masterpiece. Worth playing, for sure, but not as special as the hype.

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Warm_Gun

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#44 Warm_Gun  Online
Member since 2021 • 2409 Posts

@randy_lahey: I asked him because it wasn't the first time I heard that and can't find information.

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KvallyX

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#45 KvallyX
Member since 2019 • 12951 Posts

Loved Hellblade 1 and looking forward to part 2.

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firedrakes

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#46 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 4365 Posts

@randy_lahey said:
@warm_gun said:
@firedrakes said:
@warm_gun said:
@firedrakes said:

The promise of 3D audio felt like false advertising.

then you fail for sony pr dept and also dont understand how audio works.

I don't even have a PS5. Sony should have gone with Atmos for speakers instead of Tempest for headphones. Because headphones can't replicate the power of a subwoofer and an LFE channel and the sense of space of speakers. Find it funny that Returnal will have Atmos on computers.

idk why sony gimp the hdmi port for the ps5.

that affected the sound to.

what odder is sony have made in the past good spacial audio in head phones. but those are costly ones.

you needed a cord to . for them.

What's wrong with the HDMI port?

Nothing. He’s spreading FUD

really? ps5 hdmi port is Capped at 32Gbps

hdmi 2.1 is 48 Gbps.

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Warm_Gun

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#47  Edited By Warm_Gun  Online
Member since 2021 • 2409 Posts

Oh yeah, I might have seen this a long time ago.

Loading Video...

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HalcyonScarlet

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#48 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13664 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@HalcyonScarlet:

"Cinematic walking" is literally just walking straight for a few minutes. I've never had moments where it feels like I'm dragging virtual feet across the floor. Unless you have ADD, they're moments hardly worth mentioning. And they're something modern video games do in general to give players more back story. It's better than watching walking segments in cut scenes. I guess it makes the storytelling feel seemless? But anyway, Sony games *use* it but they didn't INVENT the damn idea. Blame modern day AAA games.

"a few minutes", like 10 - 20 minutes. :-S

Sony didn't invent this stuff but they have popularised the genre, greatly.

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templecow90999

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#49 templecow90999
Member since 2021 • 911 Posts

I thought Hellblade was really neat. Sorry to hear most of you didn't like it :)

Only thing that puzzles me is the game tells you early on it has permadeath, but I believe that has been debunked. So why did the devs decide to lie to the player?

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#50  Edited By nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 6773 Posts

@HalcyonScarlet:

I don't know what Sony games you played but most never last longer than 5 to 8 minutes at a time. Unless you purposely take your time.