HDR10 or Dolby Vision. What will next generation consoles be?

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#1 Edited by Black96Z (808 posts) -

This coming holiday season i am considering upgrading to a XboneX and a 4K HDR tv. I am just now starting to research what i might want to consider buying for a tv. I just learned that there is a HDR format war with HDR10 and Dolby Vision being the big 2. Dolby Vision has higher standards then HDR10. Playstation, Xbox, blu-rays, Netflix, and i think maybe Hulu support HDR10. So currently i dont need Dolby Vision. But will next generation consoles stay with HDR10 or could they possibly switch to Dolby Vision? I know currently Samsung and Sony dont support Dolby Vision and they are 2 of the brands i am cosidering. I am leaning twords Sony at the moment so that i can take advantage of ths HDR support on my ps4s.

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#2 Posted by Telekill (8378 posts) -

Another format war that I was luckily aware of when I was in the market for my 4K HDR capable TV.

I went with the Vizio-P50. It's a great TV thus far and supports both HDR formats.

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#3 Posted by Black96Z (808 posts) -

@Telekill: Vizio has crossed my mind, but last i was aware Samsung and Sony had better picture quality. I know Vizio has came a long way, but not sure how they compair to the other two.

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#4 Edited by xhawk27 (11108 posts) -

I hear the HDR10 is the most supported so far.

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#5 Posted by Telekill (8378 posts) -

I've had mine since October last year without any issues so far. I watched the bluray (regular bluray) of Avatar and the upscaling to 4K was so good that it looked like a window.

I can't wait to see what actual 4K looks like on it when the prices of the players drop.

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#6 Posted by BigBadBully (2137 posts) -

You might want to wait and consider a 4k tv that has hdmi 2.1. This will allow game vrr mode which xbox one x supports.

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#7 Edited by lamprey263 (35982 posts) -

I'm not sure, but I made sure to get a TV that will take advantage of both.

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#8 Posted by Black96Z (808 posts) -

@BigBadBully: when will these be coming out?

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#9 Posted by BigBadBully (2137 posts) -

@Black96Z: think sometime next year, maybe end of this year. Its, def something to consider as its supposed to eliminate screen tearing, input lag.

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#10 Posted by DrLostRib (4734 posts) -

which one does porn use?

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#11 Posted by lamprey263 (35982 posts) -

@BigBadBully said:

You might want to wait and consider a 4k tv that has hdmi 2.1. This will allow game vrr mode which xbox one x supports.

Are those advantages worth waiting for? Will anything be on the console market in the next few years that can do 4K120fps or 8K60fps? And if that's where we're heading, is that all modern consoles will do is chase the resolution/framerate horizon instead of improving visual fidelity?

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#12 Posted by DrLostRib (4734 posts) -

@lamprey263 said:
@BigBadBully said:

You might want to wait and consider a 4k tv that has hdmi 2.1. This will allow game vrr mode which xbox one x supports.

Are those advantages worth waiting for? Will anything be on the console market in the next few years that can do 4K120fps or 8K60fps? And if that's where we're heading, is that all modern consoles will do is chase the resolution/framerate horizon instead of improving visual fidelity?

No, but he's talking about variable refresh rate which has to do with frame rates below the refresh rate of your display

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#13 Posted by Wizard (812 posts) -

HDR10 is software based where as DV needs hardware level implementation. Naturally that comes with royalties and increased cost. Since AMD and Nvidia are rolling with HDR10, that's really what the standard will be moving forward.

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#14 Posted by Black96Z (808 posts) -

@wizard: do you think amd or nvidia will ever switch? With pc always out performing consoles who is to say they wouldnt increase their standards. Telekill stated above that Vizio supports both, so i probably will go the route of getting a tv that supports both, even if i have to go out of my price range a bit.

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#15 Posted by Shewgenja (21139 posts) -

DolbyVision is a fantastic short-stop technology. Once the new HDMI spec becomes standardized, there will be less reason for hardware assisted bit range across the connection. The only caveat is that, knowing Dolby, support may go on for many many years for the simple fact that big filmhouses will want to use the standard or some nextgen version of it that may or may not be software supported from the new HDMI spec. Dolby's brand power is monumental in the audio realm and it would be silly to discount them if they have a good strategy.

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#16 Posted by stereointegrity (12143 posts) -

once we have tv's with hdmi 2.1 i think we will see hdr10 pull ahead. dolby wants their tech to be licensed while hdr10 is set by the industry to be used for any one.

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#17 Edited by Phazevariance (12331 posts) -

Careful, HDR10+ is coming soon which aims to mimic DV, but using the HDR10 format. Good chance that if you buy now and that becomes 'standard' you'll miss out on the dynamic per frame metadata capabilities. Not that it will make that huge of a difference.

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#18 Posted by Wizard (812 posts) -

@Black96Z: I don't think so. HDR10 is akin to Freesync v. G-sync but with more players and a more even market share. If AMD owned the % Market Share Nvidia did in the GPU space G-sync would already be dead. Samsung doesn't support DV and they are the biggest player in the TV space. LG does in it's very high end sets (no excuse not too) but if DV were to lose ground I'm sure they'd join Samsung in killing it. They can all say they support a very good HDR standard in the advertisements and not have to bother with Dolby's shit. Nvidia and AMD won't want to waste money making compatibility for a standard literally no monitors support and few TVs. HDR on PC isn't much of a presence yet and I doubt it will be until 2019 or so based on current market trends.

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#19 Edited by cyberpunk_2077 (580 posts) -

We are a long way away from worrying about HDR standards as even the TV manufacturers are still figuring it out. especially in gaming. Dolby vision however would be the better of the 2 as its very much more dynamic in how it works.

However HDR10 would be what coming consoles would go for for the time being....well that would be my bet.

In terms of who understands Video better it would be wiser to stick with Sony as it is what they do best.

The other thing is to make sure to get above mid range TV if HDR is important to you. Nothings worse than getting a cheap TV with piss poor backlighting and very bad blacks giving you worse results with HDR enabled.

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#20 Edited by Black96Z (808 posts) -

@cyberpunk_2077: whatever i decide to buy i dont plan on replacing for a very long time so i will be making sure i do good research. I recall reading here and there that not all tv's can do proper HDR. So that is something that i will have to understand better. I have plenty of time to educate myself on the subject before i plan on buying.

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#21 Edited by cyberpunk_2077 (580 posts) -

@Black96Z: I'm victim to mediocre hdr and learnt the hard way. This is a guy who sells TV for a living lol.

Day light scenes are fantastic but when it comes to dungeons or dark environments the blacks suffer a lot due to the lack of zonal backlighting and the high brightness for the peak whites

Ahh well but yes do take your time, personally if budgets high enough I'd go for an OLED.

But I'm from the UK and not too familiar with visio as a brand.

I wish you luck 🤞

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#22 Edited by stuff238 (3284 posts) -

I don't plan on getting a 4K TV until PS5 anyway. Hopefully they figure it out by then.

I got a 720p/1080i HDTV for the PS3/360 gen.

This gen with PS4/Xbone, I got a bigger 1080p.

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#23 Edited by j2zon2591 (3571 posts) -

@Black96Z said:

@cyberpunk_2077: whatever i decide to buy i dont plan on replacing for a very long time so i will be making sure i do good research. I recall reading here and there that not all tv's can do proper HDR. So that is something that i will have to understand better. I have plenty of time to educate myself on the subject before i plan on buying.

Yep. I'm sure you'll find out which ones have Wide Color Gamut (usually indicators of the actual HDR feature you want).

TV sets saying they are "HDR10" or "HDR" only at the boxes and those that are cheap usually don't have the HDR you want or what others say "True HDR".

I believe the most popular budget set right now is the TCL 55 inch P607/P605 and is a "true HDR TV" at the MSRP of $ 599/649. Most reviewers deem it industry shaking at that price point (forgot proper term).

It's still a budget set so I hope you'd have level expectations.

EDIT:

Yep. You may want to wait for HDMI 2.1.

Another thing you may want to look at is Chroma 4:4:4 so that the texts are images are as sharp as possible for PC use. IDK if that applies for others. I think HDR high end movies are only 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.

When RTINGS do their reviews they usually indicate if a set is Chroma 4:4:4 or not.

RTINGS P607 review:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/p-series-2017-p607

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#24 Posted by Black96Z (808 posts) -

@j2zon2591: i dont usually buy cheap eletronics. I currently have 3 Samsung tv's in my house. Always loved the picture of them. My current tv that i games on is a un55es7100. I dont really have much to complain about with this tv. But when RE7 and Little Nightmares came out is when i really started noticing its age. When playing RE7 my blacks were really gray. It was then i noticed i needed to do some recalibrating. I have made a big improment but still not fully satisfied. I game at night in a dark room. I almost have go start crushing my blacks to get the image i want.

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#25 Edited by j2zon2591 (3571 posts) -

@Black96Z said:

@j2zon2591: i dont usually buy cheap eletronics. I currently have 3 Samsung tv's in my house. Always loved the picture of them. My current tv that i games on is a un55es7100. I dont really have much to complain about with this tv. But when RE7 and Little Nightmares came out is when i really started noticing its age. When playing RE7 my blacks were really gray. It was then i noticed i needed to do some recalibrating. I have made a big improment but still not fully satisfied. I game at night in a dark room. I almost have go start crushing my blacks to get the image i want.

If you haven't already, I suggest checking RTINGS and avsforum.

RTINGS also have input lag information.

I'm not sure yet but I think LG is still using the"faux 4K" for their LCDs with having different and less RGB pixel patterns/numbers.

What's your budget/budget range for the new TV?

if pricing isn't an issue then rtings seem to recommend the LG C7 if HDR is the priority.

IDK what oleds "less known issues" are though like if they have weird white reproduction issues, abl issues, etc.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-features/hdr

For the Sony x930e, it was mentioned the DV is supposed to be a future update but I can't vouch for any promises as I don't really know what's up with that or their reputation with TV patches.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x930e

BOLO for IPS vs VA panel types. AFAIK some TV lines, same model different size can have variances (e.g. 50 inch has IPS, 55 has VA). Just a heads up in any case.

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#26 Posted by Black96Z (808 posts) -

@j2zon2591: ill make a final decision on price range when i get closer to buying. Maybe $1200??? I might wait to see what the price of VRR tv's go for. Hopefully they arent overly expensive. (Fingures crossed) Last i was hurd they were going to be coming out late this year or next. XboneX will be the first thing i buy first.

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#27 Posted by ronvalencia (27215 posts) -

@Black96Z said:

This coming holiday season i am considering upgrading to a XboneX and a 4K HDR tv. I am just now starting to research what i might want to consider buying for a tv. I just learned that there is a HDR format war with HDR10 and Dolby Vision being the big 2. Dolby Vision has higher standards then HDR10. Playstation, Xbox, blu-rays, Netflix, and i think maybe Hulu support HDR10. So currently i dont need Dolby Vision. But will next generation consoles stay with HDR10 or could they possibly switch to Dolby Vision? I know currently Samsung and Sony dont support Dolby Vision and they are 2 of the brands i am cosidering. I am leaning twords Sony at the moment so that i can take advantage of ths HDR support on my ps4s.

Samsung has HDR10 and HDR10+ https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/20/samsung-and-amazon-counter-dolby-vision-hdr-with-hdr10/

Like Dolby Vision, HDR10+ uses "dynamic metadata" that's encoded into scenes ahead of time, as opposed to the fixed metadata in HDR10. That'll allow an HDR10+ TV to adjust brightness on a "scene-by-scene or even frame-by-frame basis," Samsung says. For instance, with HDR10, dark scenes in a generally bright movie may look "significantly darker than was originally envisioned by the director," it adds. The new tech will adjust for that on the fly, making films look more as their creators intended.

HDMI 2.1 has it's own dynamic metadata HDR.

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#28 Posted by Shewgenja (21139 posts) -

@cyberpunk_2077 said:

@Black96Z: I'm victim to mediocre hdr and learnt the hard way. This is a guy who sells TV for a living lol.

Day light scenes are fantastic but when it comes to dungeons or dark environments the blacks suffer a lot due to the lack of zonal backlighting and the high brightness for the peak whites

Ahh well but yes do take your time, personally if budgets high enough I'd go for an OLED.

But I'm from the UK and not too familiar with visio as a brand.

I wish you luck 🤞

OLED is the truth.

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#29 Posted by Messiahbolical- (5633 posts) -

Just get an LG Super UHD TV and you're set. They support both HDR formats. Great picture quality too.

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#30 Posted by cyberpunk_2077 (580 posts) -

@Shewgenja: It is indeed! Samsung can tell the selves otherwise. I've loads of customers loyal to the Samsung brand wasting money on QLED.

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#31 Posted by RyviusARC (5707 posts) -

Meh I am happy with my Samsung KS8000.

I try not to worry about who wins the war. HDR is nice but it's not the main reason I got a KS8000.

Sucks for my parents who spent like 600-700 dollars back in the early 80s for a betamax player when VHS soon overtook them.

The 80s and 90s had plenty of format wars but there is not as much brewing these days.

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#32 Posted by sukraj (27858 posts) -

I own an OLED TV which supports both formats so im a very happy bunny.

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#33 Posted by Shewgenja (21139 posts) -

12-bit HDR is here to stay. I'll just put it that way.

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#34 Posted by lifelessablaze (832 posts) -

I feel like HDR 10 will be more used and popular since it's open and free while Dolby Vision is the better choice/has the much wider range of gamut...companies are unwilling to pay royalty fees for it.

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#35 Edited by SterlingStandard (1 posts) -

The best thing to remember here is that none of the T.V.s being created now can reach the echelon capabilities or even reach the level standards be it Dolby or HDR10 right now it's more of companies deciding who to back for the next generation of TV formats and who's going to get paid/benifit from it. Dolby charges to use it's tech while HDR10 uses open source but they share any tech advances put forward by members of the "HDR10 alliance" . The current nit ceiling on TVs is 2k-4k depending on OLED or QLED while the ceiling of the formats will push 10k-12k . Free tech sharing and use it seems that HDR10+ may work better for companies involved but don't forget HLG support in the future for live t.v. but as of now the argument is a moot point . It's like having an 8K t.v. , great find something that you can watch on it besides a proprietary scene demonstration . It's completely in the future... HDR10+ with HLG support is backed by Amazon , Hulu, and several broadcasting networks so I see this winning the race in the coming years.

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#36 Posted by GoldenElementXL (2874 posts) -

I really feel for people buying these low/mid tier TVs. Sure, $800-$999 for a 65” 4K tv sounds great, but most of those models have garbage backlighting, no local dimming, shit HDR etc. People need to save their money or wait for the prices on the “good ones” to come down. LCD TVs can still be great though. I would recommend the Samsung Q8, Sony XBR 900F or anything in that range. But avoid those cheap Samsung TVs. They’re HOT GARBAGE

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#37 Posted by MonsieurX (38900 posts) -

I saw lifelessablaze and was wondering when he got back

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#38 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2974 posts) -

They will probably support both.

I currently have a Sony A8f.. it's hard to go back to anything else.

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#39 Posted by Howmakewood (5757 posts) -

LG C8, non oleds are meh and the C8 gives you the best bang for the buck

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#40 Posted by XVision84 (15598 posts) -

Dolby vision support is quite limited atm. I don't think that it's worth it for developers to include support for it over hdr10 (unless it's very easy to do). Hopefully they support both in the end.

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#41 Posted by pyro1245 (4828 posts) -

Dolby Vision is apparently better because of the way it uses the meta data to render the HDR.

HDR10+ is also a thing though which will supposedly work more like DV?

...aaaand that's why I bought a cheap-ish TCL 6-series with array local dimming while I wait for micro-LED displays.

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#42 Posted by Bikouchu35 (8290 posts) -

@goldenelementxl said:

I really feel for people buying these low/mid tier TVs. Sure, $800-$999 for a 65” 4K tv sounds great, but most of those models have garbage backlighting, no local dimming, shit HDR etc. People need to save their money or wait for the prices on the “good ones” to come down. LCD TVs can still be great though. I would recommend the Samsung Q8, Sony XBR 900F or anything in that range. But avoid those cheap Samsung TVs. They’re HOT GARBAGE

Tcl and Vizio has some great value tv at $999 with dimming zones.

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#43 Posted by Archangel3371 (27357 posts) -

Old thread.

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#44 Posted by Epak_ (10613 posts) -

@howmakewood said:

LG C8, non oleds are meh and the C8 gives you the best bang for the buck

AV/AVS forums have oled owners who prefer QLEDs for HDR content, I've seen them! :P

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#45 Posted by sealionact (3726 posts) -

It's an old thread, but it's worth pointing out that Xbox supports hdr10 and Dolby vision. There's also supposed to be an upcoming update that allows hdr10+.

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#46 Posted by Howmakewood (5757 posts) -
@Epak_ said:
@howmakewood said:

LG C8, non oleds are meh and the C8 gives you the best bang for the buck

AV/AVS forums have oled owners who prefer QLEDs for HDR content, I've seen them! :P

Well there are certain things like peak brightness where QLED can perform better, but as far as the overall quality? meh

Tho there's Freesync support and most likely the best tv OS to be found on Samsung so there's that

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#47 Posted by Zero_epyon (13099 posts) -

It'll likely support both.

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#48 Posted by Epak_ (10613 posts) -

@howmakewood said:
@Epak_ said:
@howmakewood said:

LG C8, non oleds are meh and the C8 gives you the best bang for the buck

AV/AVS forums have oled owners who prefer QLEDs for HDR content, I've seen them! :P

Well there are certain things like peak brightness where QLED can perform better, but as far as the overall quality? meh

Tho there's Freesync support and most likely the best tv OS to be found on Samsung so there's that

Yeah, I've only seen OLEDs at stores, never at low light environments where they excel. Been pretty impressed with my Q9F, except the DSE, which they all seem to suffer from because of the FALD panel. Pretty ironic that these models now struggle with gray uniformity just like OLEDs do... There's no perfect panel out there I guess.

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#49 Edited by kuu2 (11088 posts) -

@Bikouchu35 said:
@goldenelementxl said:

I really feel for people buying these low/mid tier TVs. Sure, $800-$999 for a 65” 4K tv sounds great, but most of those models have garbage backlighting, no local dimming, shit HDR etc. People need to save their money or wait for the prices on the “good ones” to come down. LCD TVs can still be great though. I would recommend the Samsung Q8, Sony XBR 900F or anything in that range. But avoid those cheap Samsung TVs. They’re HOT GARBAGE

Tcl and Vizio has some great value tv at $999 with dimming zones.

TV tech has improved and allowed some great low price models. Why did this get necroed?

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#50 Posted by Horgen (119964 posts) -

Necro thread. Hence locked.