Have modern Mario games become too easy?

I'd agree. Sunshine could be really challenging at times. Meanwhile Odyssey was obviously made for younger audiences and was on the easier side of the spectrum.

That said, game companies are allowed to switch gears and focus on a specific age range. Younger gamers need to start somewhere.

Yes. But that goes for pretty much all games.

I wouldn’t necessarily say that they’re too easy, I would say that they’ve become more accessible. The main portion can be “beaten” somewhat more easily but if you want to do everything in the game then the challenge is certainly there. I think they are just right.

Yeah I think so.

I dunno how id rate the difficulty. Mario 1 is semi rough, I beat 2 and 3 no problem, world is a joke super easy game. Mario 64 the struggle is real right now for me. Need to play sunshine and galaxy but those don't look as hard as 64. Mario Maker 1-2 had some nice hard levels in it.

Odyssey looks like an easy joke and 3d world looks easy as hell same with new Super Mario bro.

Seems like first 2d game was hard then they get easier the first 3d game was hard than they get easier

On Gameboy the first one was hard then the next one got really easy with flying rabbit ears and you could get hit 3 times it was a joke first one you got hit twice your dead even with fireball Mario.

Even Paper Mario is a joke compared Mario RPG in difficulty look how dumb and easy origami king is.

Lol, well I was a kid when early Mario games came out. So does that mean I'm more skilled than the next generation?!

Sunshine is a nice challenge but to me it feels like the controls are a little clunky and not as responsive as say Mario odyssey. I’m having fun with sunshine right now but it does frustrate me sometimes.

@SolidGame_basic: You and me. Both. Mario 3 was top tier gaming back in the day. I would say that we are probably more skilled with traditional platforming than kids of today while they're probably more skilled at shooters and garbage like Fortnight. That's their Mario.

Says the guy who defends UC4.

Are Super Mario (mainline, not the spin-offs) games intended to be family-oriented? I never thought of them appealing to "hardcore" gamers like The Legend of Zelda or Metroid.

I do not care if a Super Mario game is "too easy" or "too difficult," I am concerned whether I enjoy playing it. That is what is important to me.

"We make our own luck" and by that, you can make the game easy or hard how you play it. Mario games are still a worthy challenge vs like Uncharted series which I find too easy compare to games like Mario. Mario Sunshine GC era was hard for me but with patience and timing, I was able to beat the game but its very time consuming and not easy as you may think it is.

100 skip rope jumps, then that beach ball thing, the final moon. I found them harder than anything found in 64 or Sunshine.

All 3d platformers games I played are easy!

for mario, 2d games were just right and they get difficult at the last worlds!

3d mario are easy! I played 64 and galaxy 1&2, both were easy to finish! but if you want to collect all stars on them, they get difficult!

I don't recall any Mario games being difficult.

Super Mario 2 the West got was different because Japan thought we were pussies.

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Regarding the OP's question. Modern game wise? Yea, especially the bosses in New Super Mario Bros.

Should really be an engaging, creative crescendo, but ends up being a flatlining nothingburger.

Was playing the Rayman Remaster/Remake, really wonderful bosses in comparison, some quite challenging but nothing too difficult to handle as to be frustrating once learn the phases.

What was really good about OG Mario games, like the 2D era stuff was they had a difficulty curve that was easy enough to understand the game at the beginning, and gradually got harder to a decent challenge near the end.

Topic title should be renamed to , are games from the late 2000’s and on ,easy?

Mario 64's controls do not hold up well in the collection. They should have tightened them up.

They have gotten easier, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. They are well made and fun, which is the most important part. And the challenge is still there if you are a completionist.

Disclaimer, never fully completed Sunshine and my recollection of it is shit, been some years.

If strictly talking 3d games, I feel the range of challenge has expanded in both directions. As in the easy parts have gotten easier and the hard parts have gotten harder.

Like SM64 is immediately more challenging than both 3DW and SMO, but in turn 3DW and SMO have a multitude of more challenging moments than SM64 well before you ever reach completion.

Was thinking about this a bit the past few weeks. Did three full runs of SM64, and aside from the occasional tricky star, don't really feel the challenge until Tick Tock Clock. Which is super late game, one of the final stages. And even then, just wasn't that challenging.

Jumped back into my SMO file last night, found much more challenge in the games tougher obstacle courses, and even a bit more challenge in the games "putz around" open area stuff. I think those moments just get drowned out by the games obnoxious moon padding, though that's another issue of its own.

Admittedly I'm playing the PC port of 64. So 16:9 and 60fps, which translates to a better field of view and more responsive play. Probably makes it a bit easier, but don't think it's a deal breaker on this take. Always felt this way about 64. And if extra challenge comes in the form of technical shortcomings, well that's nothing to celebrate lol.

Anyways, I feel this is an issue with "exploration" based Mario games in general. Too much putzing around with little hazard. It's the occasional obstacle course setup that puts the mechanics through their paces. Generally have to work for the fun in those open spaces, doing more than what the game asks of you. Becomes more about how efficiently you can style on the game than rather than the games challenges having real teeth. Ironically comes off more like Sonic in that sense.

Not exactly a bad thing, you can pull off some wild stuff in 64, Sunshine, and SMO. Go watch high level players and have your mind blown. These games do have some legit insane skill ceilings.

But yeah, I think SMG and especially SMG2 handle this much better. Consistently putting the player through direct challenges in a wide variety of ways while ramping things up. Much tighter challenges than most of what the exploration Marios present.

Mario 64 is challenging because of the early 3d controls. The actual levels themselves generally aren't too bad.

Mario Sunshine is genuinely challenging to beat the game, let alone to get every shine. I beat it on the weekend, but some of those 'secret' levels were really brutal, and some of the other challenges took quite a few tries.

Mario Galaxy 1&2...I suspect they were easier, because I remember getting just about every star in them.

The later games strike a much better balance though. They're accessible enough that anyone can 'beat' them, but you're going to need quite a bit of skill to beat them 100%. The harder levels aren't mandatory, unlike in Sunshine.

Regarding Super Mario Sunshine, the secret levels can be tough because Mario cannot use FLUDD to get through them. Thank Shadow Mario for taking FLUDD away from Mario each time he enters a secret level.

Yeah, Odyssey does something similar in having you go without Cappy for many of the challenge rooms. It's a nice touch in both games, removing the crutch to impose further challenge. Then coming out of them, you're likely to be a bit better with the games core mechanics.

Always feel Mario games are at their best when they test the player like that.

I find Sunshine difficult. However it's more to do with the camera angle not being great in certain situations. Plus forgetting what mode I have the super soaker in when I need it in hover mode instead of shooting mode to make jumps.

I haven’t played a Mario game since 3D World on the WiiU, but yes, I finished it way too fast and I don’t recall any real challenge. I remember Sunshine being a lot longer and more challenging.

They may have Fortnite, but we had Goldeneye and Perfect Dark 😎

They are much easier than they used to be. Mario Odyssey is a very easy game and pretty much impossible to actually get a game over.

It actually is impossible to get a game over in Odyssey, though it's not a measure of difficulty either. They just did away with the lives system and replaced it with losing currency.

Which is fine really, the lives system in 3d Mario games was more of an archaic hold-over that didn't add to these games in any meaningful way. Losing a life in 64 boots you out of the level. A game over in 64 boots you out of the castle. Didn't add to the challenge, only inconveniences the player, making them run back to the level again.

Game overs did make some sense in the Galaxy games at least, being mostly linear obstacle courses and having you lose your checkpoint.

But having game overs in the more open area Mario games, forcing you to retread the same old ground to get back to the challenge itself, glad they did away with that. Overcoming the actual obstacle has always been the challenge, the game over slap on the wrist just translated to wasted time.

I imagine a game over in Odyssey would be booting the player back to the Odyssey ship, or maybe out to the world select screen. No fun in that. Would only drag out an already padded game.

@ConanTheStoner: I can agree with that. Never really thought of it that way. Odyssey is a brilliant game, but it feels a lot less challenging than 64 and Sunshine. It may be that the controls and camera are just a lot better in the newer games too.

@iambatman7986:

For sure, Odyssey could definitely pack more of a punch. I think its toughest challenges outdo 64, but there's way too much pushover stuff between those. Some of it being straight up toddler level stuff lol. A bit harder at the ceiling, but significantly easier at the floor.

Would love to see an Odyssey 2 that ditches the absurd amounts of filler and adds far more challenge rooms.

And yeah, I really need to grab Sunshine again and just push through it. Don't know quite enough to have an informed opinion on it.

@ConanTheStoner: I'm liking Sunshine. It's a bit awkward in the beginning, getting used to the controls. But it has me coming back for more lol

@SolidGame_basic:

I'll check it out... again lol. I've attempted the game soooo many times. Never liked the level design outside of the secret levels. Which makes sense, they're basically the precursor to the Galaxy titles. But those more open areas and the camera, just... ugh.

But I might be able to appreciate it more these days, I'm sure it's a lot better than the typical modern AAA joint.

I remember the final/secret levels of 3D World and Odyssey being harder, but yeah you're right I wish they were a little more challenging. Odyssey is still really good tho

Ah shit. So not only is Sunshine 30fps in this collection, it even has frame pacing issues that weren't present in the Gamecube version... so it's actually worse than the original lol.

Yup, emu time. Nintendo doing everything they can to not sell me on this collection lol.

Mario games are harder than any other game not developed by From Software. Don’t let the “kiddy” visuals fool you. Those saying Odyssey is easy haven’t played the post credits stuff. Those levels are as hard as ever. Precision platforming is far more difficult than watching cutscenes or first person shooting galleries.

You all will grow up and come to your senses someday.

I found the difficulty in Odyssey to be just right. Not every game has to be overly challenging... there is a fine line with balancing difficulty, and I'd rather a game be slightly on the easier side than too far the other way where it becomes frustrating.

They've always been approachable ... even the old ones like World or SMB3, with the exception being the Lost Levels ... the thing is that we have become good at video games so Super Mario games seem to be particulary easy however most people with little video game experience will struggle a bit with this games because like i said, they are approachable.

Hmm lol. It's ironic actually, in that I die way more in Mario games than I do in Souls games.

I feel Souls games get their reputation for two reasons.

1. The difficulty is front loaded rather than easing the player in.

2. The punishment for failure can feel more severe than other games at times.

I know Souls games have become this poster child for "omg hard games!", but in reality I see them more like how Ninja Gaiden games were on the NES. The popular hard game. Far more challenging games exist, these games just wear it on their sleeve and have a mainstream appeal.

I understand that the easy game and "kiddy game" knocks against Mario can be absurd, not disagreeing there. But there are countless games that are far more difficult than Mario and Souls lol.

I think gamers are just getting better at gaming with time.

@SolidGame_basic:

Took the plunge on Sunshine!

Honestly, enjoying it much more than every other time I tried it. I think I'll see it through to the end this time.

Not sure if i'd agree with that. I would say they (by and large) they have been conditioned on easier games featuring many accessibility options.

Even games that have become renowned as hard such as Dark Souls, it's very easy compared to your average 8/16 bit title.

People paid to inform us, like Polygon basically lack any motor functions, focusing on themes, politics and pseudo-philosophy word salad because they can't actually play games on an even remotely competent level.

Even gaming experts I respect like Champ, I played the guy at Street Fighter, just jumped up and down in the corner hoping I wouldn't hit him, this is what modern gaming has done to the youth.

Poor Champ. 😂

Nice, you're already ahead of me lol. I'm just going to stick with the inferior Switch version lol. I was really frustrated with that first secret level. I would press jump and he kept jumping too far ahead.

What makes you like it this time around? Maybe it's the performance?

I know I'm enjoying Allstars way more than Odyssey.

Yeah it's weird. I'm used to re-adjusting to the feel from one Mario game to the next, but Sunshine has a strange feel about it. It's like a less weighty version of 64? Idk, hard to describe. But I noticed without FLUDD there to help course correct, I felt less in control than I usually do with the base mechanics.

Not sure if you've played a lot of Sunshine, but it's my least played of the main games. I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to it.

What bugs the hell out of me is the lack of a long jump. I get that it would be overkill with FLUDD, but when you don't have FLUDD it just feels wrong.

Definitely helps a lot, yeah. But I think I'm just less of a snob about 3d platformers now. We rarely get them, and when we do, they're rarely good.

Sunshine may have some questionable design choices, and sure it's not the best 3d Mario, but it still seems like a damn good game so far.

Champ jokes around sometimes, saying we wouldn't have been so harsh on the GoW games if we knew what gaming would become lol. But in a way, I feel that applies here. Was easy to turn my nose up at Sunshine with all the bangers coming out in the early to mid 2000s, but I can appreciate it more now.

The main games have some levels that are difficult enough, but if you want a challenge go play some super expert levels on Super Mario Maker 1 or 2 and get back to me... hardest levels you will ever find on any game ever made.
Just for the record, I haven't played Odyssey and don't really want to either. I am mainly into 2D Mario Games, although the Galaxy games are great.