Have JRPGs been better than WRPGs this generation? (Remasters allowed)

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uninspiredcup

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#1 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 50298 Posts

Have Xenoblade Chronicles, Persona and Final Fantasy XV outdone the likes of Witcher 3, Divinity and Skyrim/Fallout when it comes to quality?

Would it be a fare statement to say Japanese style RPG's are currently outdoing their Western counterparts? Or would this just be hyperbolock nonsense?

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Archangel3371

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#2 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 37857 Posts

I don’t think that I would necessarily say better but they were in a bit of a lull for awhile and I think that they have just recently made a comeback.

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AzatiS

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#3 AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts

nO

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lundy86_4

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#4 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 59743 Posts

I'd say so, but I feel it's because JRPG's have been on a serious uptick, and WRPG's have just kinda stagnated so far. Kinda the reverse of last-gen.

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SOedipus

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#5 SOedipus
Member since 2006 • 13807 Posts

Naah.

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deactivated-60113e7859d7d

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#6 deactivated-60113e7859d7d
Member since 2017 • 3808 Posts

Played the FFXV demo. Bad. Not fun to play. Stylistically ugly. The boys are repulsive. I have no idea why such crap is so popular.

Never played or cared about Xenoblade Chronicles or Persona, but I did like Nier: Automata, even if it was overrated and had mediocre combat.

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Basinboy

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#7 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14391 Posts

You created this thread just to post those fun bags (good god).

Also not even close. WRPGs are two steps ahead on JRPGs this generation.

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mrbojangles25

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#8  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 52935 Posts

Nope.

Resurection of old-school WRPG (Pillars, Tyrrany, etc) plus all the others > all JRPG's.

Western RPG's have a lot more "going on", as the kids say, than JRPG's.

I mean honestly, you posted it @uninspiredcup: the best thing about JRPG's are the scantily-clad, JRPG-inspired cosplay. At least we have that.

@ezekiel43 said:

Played the FFXV demo. Bad. Not fun to play. Stylistically ugly. The boys are repulsive. I have no idea why such crap is so popular.

Never played or cared about Xenoblade Chronicles or Persona, but I did like Nier: Automata, even if it was overrated and had mediocre combat.

FFXV was terrible. I gave it a chance, many chances in fact because frankly I was feeling a bit racist for not liking any Japanese games, but my god the game is terrible.

Yes, the style of the game is ugly, but the gameplay is even worse. It's just all flash, no substance.

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IvanGrozny

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#9 IvanGrozny
Member since 2015 • 1709 Posts

What qualities are you talking about? Graphics, narrative, gameplay, rpg mechanics? Looks like a troll thread.

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Calvincfb

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#10 Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@uninspiredcup: you trolling, right? FFXV is a PoS, not even worth calling a game, it simply is Cash cow incomplete shit.

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uninspiredcup

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#11 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 50298 Posts

@calvincfb said:

@uninspiredcup: you trolling, right? FFXV is a PoS,

Angry gamer/everyone else

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Jag85

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#12  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

Japanese RPGs:

  • Persona 5, Nier: Automata, Nioh, Bloodborne, Dark Souls III, Yakuza 0 & 6, Xenoblade Chronicles X & 2, Monster Hunter: World, Pokemon Sun & Moon, Ni No Kuni II, Final Fantasy XV, Trails of Cold Steel 1 & 2, Ys VIII, Tales of Berseria, I Am Setsuna, Bravely Second, Fire Emblem Fates & Echoes, Shin Megami Tensei IV, Gravity Rush 2, Dragon Quest Builders

Western RPGs:

  • The Witcher 3, Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2, Fallout 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Mass Effect Andromeda, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Wasteland 2, Darkest Dungeons, Torment: Tides of Numenera

Overall winner:

  • Japanese RPGs

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NoodleFighter

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#13 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 11466 Posts

@Jag85: What about Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Wasteland 2, Darkest Dungeons and Torment: Tides Of Numenera?

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Jag85

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#14 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

@NoodleFighter: Updated list.

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Gatygun

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#15 Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 2644 Posts

Lol not even close

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Ghosts4ever

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#16 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 20539 Posts

No. no matter how bad WRPGs are. they are not as bad as girly, childish JRPGs. not by longshot.

FPS is still king of gaming thought.

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texasgoldrush

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#17  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 13849 Posts

@Jag85 said:

Japanese RPGs:

  • Persona 5, Nier: Automata, Nioh, Bloodborne, Dark Souls III, Yakuza 0 & 6, Xenoblade Chronicles X & 2, Monster Hunter: World, Pokemon Sun & Moon, Ni No Kuni II, Final Fantasy XV, Trails of Cold Steel 1 & 2, Ys VIII, Tales of Berseria, I Am Setsuna, Bravely Second, Fire Emblem Fates & Echoes, Shin Megami Tensei IV, Gravity Rush 2, Dragon Quest Builders

Western RPGs:

  • The Witcher 3, Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2, Fallout 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Mass Effect Andromeda, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Wasteland 2, Darkest Dungeons, Torment: Tides of Numenera

Overall winner:

  • Japanese RPGs

Bloodborne and Dark Souls III are not JRPGs. Although you didn't list it, South Park Fractured But Whole is a JRPG.

The Witcher 3 alone wins it for WRPGs. Even JRPGs have to take cues from it.

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Litchie

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#18  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 30365 Posts

Fallout 4 is probably the laziest Bethesda game ever made. And I'd still rather play that than Xenoblade, Persona and definitely fucking FFXV.

Xenoblade looks half interesting, but I don't have time to spend 100 hours on MMO-like quests in a single-player game. And the combat system is wank.

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Litchie

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#19 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 30365 Posts

@Jag85 said:

Japanese RPGs:

  • Persona 5, Nier: Automata, Nioh, Bloodborne, Dark Souls III, Yakuza 0 & 6, Xenoblade Chronicles X & 2, Monster Hunter: World, Pokemon Sun & Moon, Ni No Kuni II, Final Fantasy XV, Trails of Cold Steel 1 & 2, Ys VIII, Tales of Berseria, I Am Setsuna, Bravely Second, Fire Emblem Fates & Echoes, Shin Megami Tensei IV, Gravity Rush 2, Dragon Quest Builders

Western RPGs:

  • The Witcher 3, Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2, Fallout 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Mass Effect Andromeda, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Wasteland 2, Darkest Dungeons, Torment: Tides of Numenera

Overall winner:

  • Japanese RPGs

Cool list.

On the JRPG side, I like Nioh, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Monster Hunter World.

On the WRPG side: Fallout 4. And I don't like it much.

Japan definitely wins.

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Calvincfb

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#20 Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@ghosts4ever: lol @ calling jrpg girly and childish, as that was a valid criticism to a game. Lol @ that male insecurity.

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DaVillain

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#21  Edited By DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 50439 Posts

I say there both even.

@Basinboy said:

You created this thread just to post those fun bags (good god).

Also not even close. WRPGs are two steps ahead on JRPGs this generation.

Funny thing is, there's actually a game called Funbags lol. (My least favorite hentai game)

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adsparky

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#22 adsparky
Member since 2006 • 2329 Posts

@lundy86_4 said:

I'd say so, but I feel it's because JRPG's have been on a serious uptick, and WRPG's have just kinda stagnated so far. Kinda the reverse of last-gen.

This.

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Jag85

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#23 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

@texasgoldrush: I said Japanese RPGs, not "JRPGs".

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DocSanchez

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#25 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5557 Posts

No they have not. Not even close.

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Star67

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#26 Star67
Member since 2005 • 4983 Posts

Do we consider JRPG's and WRPG's a style of game, or where the game was made?

Because Bloodborne is my favorite RPG of the year, but I don't consider it a JRPG

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DocSanchez

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#27 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5557 Posts

@Star67: It is definitely the type of game, because we don't differentiate the origin of the game in any other genre. There are no Jracers or WFPS's. So the only reason we use the prefix J or W is because it's a type of game. Hence Dark Souls and Bloodborne are WRPGs and the glut of RPGMaker games on steam made in the USA are proudly JRPGs.

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Jag85

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#28 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

@Star67 said:

Do we consider JRPG's and WRPG's a style of game, or where the game was made?

Where the game was made.

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omegaMaster

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#29  Edited By omegaMaster
Member since 2017 • 2597 Posts

"Final Fantasy XV outdone the likes of Witcher 3, Divinity and Skyrim/Fallout when it comes to quality?"

Think you need to wake up and smell the coffee. That's clearly not a question you need to ask lol. FFXV is no where near good enough to compete with Skyrim and Fallout.

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uninspiredcup

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#30  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 50298 Posts

@omegamaster said:

"Final Fantasy XV outdone the likes of Witcher 3, Divinity and Skyrim/Fallout"

Think you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Could try reading properly.

Helps.

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#31 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5557 Posts

@Jag85 said:
@Star67 said:

Do we consider JRPG's and WRPG's a style of game, or where the game was made?

Where the game was made.

Totally illogical and pointless. Absolutely no point to doing this which is why we don't do it for any other genre. It HAS to refer to the type of game, because otherwise it's a totally useless distinction.

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Valgaav_219

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#32 Valgaav_219
Member since 2017 • 2985 Posts

It's all subjective tbh I prefer JRPG's and for the most part I do like them more

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ToonLonk

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#34  Edited By ToonLonk
Member since 2017 • 440 Posts

IMO, aside from Fallout: NV, then pretty much any Persona, the original Xenoblade, or heck, even Pokemon Heartgold/Soulsilver, beats out the likes of most WRPGs. I bought an entire Vita just for P4G, can't really say the same for any Elder Scrolls.

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ToonLonk

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#35 ToonLonk
Member since 2017 • 440 Posts

@calvincfb: Yeah. And since when is something being childish a bad thing? The E stands for "Everyone", not "Kids Only". As long as it is still a fun and meaningful experience, then it's good in my book.

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#36 Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@toonlonk: it should be in everyone's but these guys are so insecure of themselves that they need that manly and testosterone shoved in their faces so they can feel more mature and like a man. I pity these people.

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Planeforger

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#37 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 18890 Posts

As much as I enjoyed Persona 5, Xenoblade 2, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, the new Pokemon games, Fire Emblem, and a heap of 3DS RPGs (and JRPG-esque action games like Yakuza 0)... I'm going to have to vote for WRPGs on this one.

There have been a lot of good JRPGs lately, but there have also been a lot of great RPGs as well - Kickstarter has revived the golden age of RPGs, indie developers are bringing in heaps of fresh ideas, and even mainstream developers have released a masterpiece with The Witcher 3.

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Pedro

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#38 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 58411 Posts

Nope.

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ToonLonk

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#39  Edited By ToonLonk
Member since 2017 • 440 Posts

@calvincfb: Those types of people: Hurr... Durr... Will not play girly baby Japanese kid games! I need my (insert generic COD-esque war shooter) to be a real man.

Reasonable people: If you were open minded towards JRPGs, you could learn a lot about what "being a man" actually means from characters like Kanji Tatsumi from Persona 4.

(I like gritty war shooters as much as the next guy, but dismissing an entire genre just because it's "childish" is unfathomably stupid.)

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Jag85

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#40  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

@DocSanchez said:
@Jag85 said:
@Star67 said:

Do we consider JRPG's and WRPG's a style of game, or where the game was made?

Where the game was made.

Totally illogical and pointless. Absolutely no point to doing this which is why we don't do it for any other genre. It HAS to refer to the type of game, because otherwise it's a totally useless distinction.

I've already responded to this argument before in a few other threads. For example, this thread some months back:

Do you like JRPG's?

I've always used "JRPG" to literally mean "Japanese RPGs". That's the only definition that is logically consistent and makes any kind of rational sense.

Any attempt at trying to mechanically define "JRPG" as a distinct genre falls apart under logical scrutiny. It makes far more rational sense to refer to "JRPG" as an industry, rather than a distinct genre.

The reality is that JRPGs are immensely diverse and varied, which cannot be squeezed into a reductive one-size-fits-all template.

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cainetao11

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#41 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 37540 Posts

Well Persona is weab shyte so cancel that andreplace it with Dark Souls 3 or Nioh and I'll say the JRPGs have been great. But the Witcher 3 still wipes the floor with them imo.

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DocSanchez

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#42 DocSanchez
Member since 2013 • 5557 Posts

@Jag85: still makes no sense. Unless you are going to specify location for all other genres? Why not?

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onesiphorus

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#43 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 4581 Posts

@ezekiel43 said:

Played the FFXV demo. Bad. Not fun to play. Stylistically ugly. The boys are repulsive. I have no idea why such c**p is so popular.

Perhaps it is not intended for a Western audience which means you.

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deactivated-60113e7859d7d

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#44  Edited By deactivated-60113e7859d7d
Member since 2017 • 3808 Posts

@onesiphorus said:
@ezekiel43 said:

Played the FFXV demo. Bad. Not fun to play. Stylistically ugly. The boys are repulsive. I have no idea why such c**p is so popular.

Perhaps it is not intended for a Western audience which means you.

No, perhaps it's shit and the Japanese have lost their way. Anime became crappy with the new generation of hacks too.

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Star67

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#45 Star67
Member since 2005 • 4983 Posts

@Jag85: Good points

This is a very interesting topic. I never realized that RPG's are the only genre with distinct regions attached. You don't see Western FPS.

I think the argument should be Turn-based vs non-turned based.

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ToonLonk

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#46  Edited By ToonLonk
Member since 2017 • 440 Posts

@Jag85: JRPGs are more about the story the developers want to tell, and letting you be involved and make choices in that story, whereas WRPGs are about the story you want to tell and letting you make your own choices and build your own character. They're both different movements and genres in gaming, and they shouldn't be identified from thier country of origin. Just like how Impressionism was popularized in France but not all Impressionists were French. There are Japanese games that are more Western in game design style, like Dark Souls and BOTW, and Western games that are more Japanese in game design style, like Uncharted abd Undertale.

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Vaeh

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#47 Vaeh
Member since 2016 • 957 Posts

To me the whole WRPG vs. JRPG is always more of a PC RPG vs. Console RPG.

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Jag85

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#48  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

@DocSanchez said:

@Jag85: still makes no sense. Unless you are going to specify location for all other genres? Why not?

I already responded to this argument too in that same thread...

In the music industry, it's well established that labels like J-pop, K-pop and C-pop refer to the Japanese, Korean and Chinese pop music industries, respectively. If there's a K-pop song that sounds similar to a J-pop song, that doesn't make it a J-pop song, but it's still K-pop regardless. Likewise for the movie industry, labels like Hollywood, Bollywood and Nollywood refer to the US, Indian and Nigerian movie industries, respectively, not distinct genres. And then there's anime and manga, which refer to the Japanese animation and comic industries, not distinct genres. Just like how J-pop, Hollywood and anime are industries, not distinct genres, the same goes for "JRPGs".

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texasgoldrush

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#49  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 13849 Posts

@Jag85: So lets ignore the clear design differences between the two.

JRPGs have distinct design differences that cause them to labeled as such. To say otherwise is sheer ignorance of these differences. The entire philosophy of the design is vastly different.

Not every Japanese made RPG is a JRPG.

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Jag85

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#50  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 16680 Posts

@toonlonk said:

@Jag85: JRPGs are more about the story the developers want to tell, and letting you be involved and make choices in that story, whereas WRPGs are about the story you want to tell and letting you make your own choices and build your own character. They're both different movements and genres in gaming, and they shouldn't be identified from thier country of origin. Just like how Impressionism was popularized in France but not all Impressionists were French. There are Japanese games that are more Western in game design style, like Dark Souls and BOTW, and Western games that are more Japanese in game design style, like Uncharted abd Undertale.

Dark Souls is a Zelda/Metroidvania-style hack & slash action-adventure with RPG and survival horror elements.

BOTW is a modern update of the original NES Zelda game design.

Both games are more heavily rooted in Japanese game design.

Good point about impressionism. Note how it doesn't have "French" in its name. No need for "J" or "W" either.