Has the West overtaken Japan in the fighting genre?

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#1 Posted by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

Games like Injustice feature superior story-telling and deeper fighting systems with interactive environments and other fairly innovative ideas for the genre (like wager). Can we agree, that... for the time being, the west is currently making superior fighting titles?

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#2 Posted by danabo (2438 posts) -

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#3 Posted by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

I didn't include killing instincezs since this is a pile of shit compared to warn bros fighters.

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#4 Edited by danabo (2438 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

I didn't include killing instincezs since this is a pile of shit compared to warn bros fighters.

@danabo said:

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#5 Posted by Boddicker (4347 posts) -

Naaaaah.

The Japanese love their fighting games to be deep while we over here are dumbing them down for the LCD. I'm willing to bet money it's still way more popular in Japan.

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#6 Posted by lx_theo (6211 posts) -

What else other than Injustice/Mortal Kombat is there from the west? Divekick maybe?

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#7 Edited by nintendoboy16 (34374 posts) -

Nope. Japan (via Capcom, ArcSystem, SEGA and Namco) still has the genre in thr bag

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#8 Posted by Gue1 (12171 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Games like Injustice feature superior story-telling and deeper fighting systems with interactive environments and other fairly innovative ideas for the genre (like wager). Can we agree, that... for the time being, the west is currently making superior fighting titles?

and with that your thread lost all credibility.

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#9 Posted by Jakandsigz (6341 posts) -

Japan makes games of chicken with a 60 second timer, Japan doesn't even have fighting sims, how can they make fighting games? Japanese "fighting games" are barely fighters as it is (also Killer Instinct also falls in this category.) Most japanese fighting games still don't have accurate dodging, weakpoints, and more than 5 frames of animation for punches and kicks.

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#10 Posted by MrYaotubo (2880 posts) -

Sales wise at least it looks like it,otherwise not so much.

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#11 Posted by Jakandsigz (6341 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Games like Injustice feature superior story-telling and deeper fighting systems with interactive environments and other fairly innovative ideas for the genre (like wager). Can we agree, that... for the time being, the west is currently making superior fighting titles?

and with that your thread lost all credibility.

Injustice is indeed garbage.

but to call those japanese fighting games fight modes "fighting systems" is laughable. I would say in japan VF is the closest they will get to people actually "fighting".

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#12 Posted by Riverwolf007 (26023 posts) -

if they did they did it 10 years after i stopped giving a damn about fighters.

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#13 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6700 posts) -

Hahaha no. Injustice and MK are good but to call them the deepest fighting games is silly. Also Japan still outnumbers the rest with quantity and quality.

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#14 Posted by Gargus (2147 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Games like Injustice feature superior story-telling and deeper fighting systems with interactive environments and other fairly innovative ideas for the genre (like wager). Can we agree, that... for the time being, the west is currently making superior fighting titles?

Persona 4 arena is better in everyway. Then you have the street fighters series which is still more solid than anything from the west. Then you have guilty gear. So no, American fighting games aren't worth a shit in comparison because your example of injustice is just mortal kombat reskinned with dc characters. And if you think injustice has good story telling you have issues. Besides, who the hell plays a fighting game for its story?

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#15 Posted by Jakandsigz (6341 posts) -

@Capitan_Kid said:

Hahaha no. Injustice and MK are good but to call them the deepest fighting games is silly. Also Japan still outnumbers the rest with quantity and quality.

Quality fighters almost don't exist unless they are sims or hve story modes that actually matter. All other fighters are in the same limited time warp they were 15 years ago. 3d fighters are slowly doing better.

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#16 Posted by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Games like Injustice feature superior story-telling and deeper fighting systems with interactive environments and other fairly innovative ideas for the genre (like wager). Can we agree, that... for the time being, the west is currently making superior fighting titles?

and with that your thread lost all credibility.

But it is. It's also more progressive with innovative ideas.

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#17 Edited by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

@Gargus said:

@uninspiredcup said:Besides, who the hell plays a fighting game for its story?

I use to also share this obnoxious cantankerous ridiculous opinion. But then I played Injustice and saw with my own 1 eye that these genres can indeed have not just good stories... but great stories.

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#18 Edited by Lucianu (10283 posts) -
@Jakandsigz said:

@Capitan_Kid said:

Hahaha no. Injustice and MK are good but to call them the deepest fighting games is silly. Also Japan still outnumbers the rest with quantity and quality.

Quality fighters almost don't exist unless they are sims or hve story modes that actually matter. All other fighters are in the same limited time warp they were 15 years ago. 3d fighters are slowly doing better.

I can't understand what you're upset about. That fighting games aren't as realistic as you'd want them too be? Or they aren't properly suited for single player?

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#19 Posted by Jakandsigz (6341 posts) -

@Lucianu said:
@Jakandsigz said:

@Capitan_Kid said:

Hahaha no. Injustice and MK are good but to call them the deepest fighting games is silly. Also Japan still outnumbers the rest with quantity and quality.

Quality fighters almost don't exist unless they are sims or hve story modes that actually matter. All other fighters are in the same limited time warp they were 15 years ago. 3d fighters are slowly doing better.

I can't understand what you're upset about. That fighting games aren't as realistic as you'd want them too be? Or they aren't properly suited for single player?

They are the same as they were mostly 15+ years ago.

There is no focus on evasion.

Blocking is restricted to seeing who is less scared of staying out of defense longer.

Body part damage has only been done ONCE (outside of fighting sims)

There is no vertical block (MK seems to be the only exception)

There is no retraction to change strategy. you have to stick with what you do or what happens to you 100%

The frames of animation per move animation is to unrealistically small for most of the above to even work well in most japanese fighting games (and Killer instinct.)

Collision is still not weight based making punches and kicks pointless there than kicks being lower punches practically.

and soooo much more. Some of which was done before but removed because of change. It's why the genre is getting more and more niche.

It has nothing to do with realism, it has to do with we are still playing fighters the same way since 1994. Literally, all there is to the changes is glitter and more games have tag matches. I am not saying that the fictional like fighting games need to be sims, but the fact we are playing most exactly the same as 1995 is indeed the saddest thing I have seen.

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#20 Edited by 06 (998 posts) -

I used to play Japanese fighters, but ever since the new mk and injustice I havnt gone back, I loved blaz, even platnimed the first one but because of NR I havnt gone back to them, I even bought the newest one played it one time then never touched it again, not because it's a bad game but I just find NR fighters more fun, especially injustice.

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#21 Edited by Lucianu (10283 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:

@Gargus said:

@uninspiredcup said:Besides, who the hell plays a fighting game for its story?

I use to also share this obnoxious cantankerous ridiculous opinion. But then I played Injustice and saw with my own 1 eye that these genres can indeed have not just good stories... but great stories.

All fighting games actually do have a plot, but it's in the backstory, in the lore, and a little of in-game plot progression here and there. Ex., if you actually pay attention to the plot of the Street Fighter Alpha series, it's pretty damn nice. Same goes for the Orochi Saga of KoF 95, 96 and 97. The reason why i'm a fan of Street Fighter in the first place is mostly because of the very interesting backstory.

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#22 Posted by 06 (998 posts) -

@Gargus: yah if you think that injustce is mk with just different skins then you have no idea what your talking about, I have played both offline and online so much that I know you don't know what your talking about, they may play somewhat similar, meaning that they both use the same controls to pull of ultimate and supers but other then that not so much. Please know what your talking about before you get checked... Too late though

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#23 Posted by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

@Lucianu said:
@uninspiredcup said:

@Gargus said:

@uninspiredcup said:Besides, who the hell plays a fighting game for its story?

I use to also share this obnoxious cantankerous ridiculous opinion. But then I played Injustice and saw with my own 1 eye that these genres can indeed have not just good stories... but great stories.

All fighting games actually do have a plot, but it's in the backstory, in the lore, and a little of in-game plot progression here and there. Ex., if you actually pay attention to the plot of the Street Fighter Alpha series, it's pretty damn nice. Same goes for the Orochi Saga of KoF 95, 96 and 97. The reason why i'm a fan of Street Fighter in the first place is mostly because of the very interesting backstory.

I agree my friend,. I remember as a younglin, with my Street Fighter II: Turbo, going page by page in the instruction book reading the backstory of each character. This of course however doesn't mean, the actual in game story should be practically nonexistent. Warn Bro's has essentially made Mortal Kombat and Injustice like participating in a straight to DVD cgi movie.

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#24 Posted by jsmoke03 (13696 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

I didn't include killing instincezs since this is a pile of shit compared to warn bros fighters.

injustice? really?

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#25 Edited by X_CAPCOM_X (7787 posts) -

Tekken says hi. It's still the most profitable arcade fighting game.

EDIT: besides the existence of SF4, people still play old school capcom games and use them as standards.

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#26 Posted by Lord_Omikron666 (4838 posts) -

No

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#27 Posted by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

Most people agree with me, this is good.

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#28 Posted by DirkXXVI (498 posts) -

They're both pretty good. I've gotten both Street Fighter x Tekken and Mortal Kombat '9' on Steam and I'm amazed as how far the old school 2d fighters have come. Heck in finally playing MK9 I kind of regret not buying it earlier to give the developer a little more cash for future projects. Will most likely be buying the next Mortal Kombat when it comes out.

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#29 Edited by superbuuman (6087 posts) -

Nope...Injustice is pretty good tho, but still prefer KoF/StreetFighter over it..the older ones are still so good, which should tell you how good they are.. Western fighting games seems abit stiff still..Japan fighting game is more flowy if that makes any sense. :P

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#30 Edited by nonsoville2 (4124 posts) -

Street fighter 4 and Marvel vs Capcom are both the best selling fighting games of last gen, both are Japanese and still heavily played at fighting tournaments.. The western fighting games are weak in replay value. Just 2 weeks ago there was a street fighter 4 (a 2008 old game) tournament inSweden with a 20,000 dollar price. Im an avid fighter gamer and know what the scene in general is into unlike you shooter fags that run your mouth talking rubbish you don't know.

Street Fighter4> Marvel vs capcom> Tekken> SFxT> Mortal Kombat> KI> Injustice...

/shit thread

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#31 Posted by 06 (998 posts) -

@nonsoville2: you have that broken mess mvc3 that high on your list... Are you sure you play fighters... I spent a good amount of time with mvc3 learning wolverine, the capt, spider man and others but after playing it for a good amount of time, the same characters were used with the same broken way to use them, worst fighter I ever played. So just by you having that up there shows you just blindly like whatever capcom dumps out.

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#32 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (8068 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

I didn't include killing instincezs since this is a pile of shit compared to warn bros fighters.

You have got to be kidding. At best the Nether Realm games are nothing more than a novelty, Whether you like it or not, no one has a problem with the gameplay of KI, it's not why it's review scores were low.

Compared to SF4 and other Japanese Fighters, Nether Realm games are bottom of the barrel. They aren't bad for a while but they're completely forgettable and i've never really gone back to any MK style game regularly throughout it's history except for MK2 on the SNES.

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#33 Edited by Pikminmaniac (11233 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Games like Injustice feature superior story-telling and deeper fighting systems with interactive environments and other fairly innovative ideas for the genre (like wager). Can we agree, that... for the time being, the west is currently making superior fighting titles?

LOOOOOL You are way out of your element here buddy. You have no idea what you're talking about. Injustice having a deeper fighting system than Japanese fighters? You are making me laugh so hard. That's ludicrous!

Street Fighter IV alone has more depth and skill required than 15 Injustices put together (then you've got KOF, Tekken, and virtua fighter).... I still have a lot of fun with Injustice, but no, your statment is so far off the mark it's crazy.

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#34 Posted by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

Holding X and Y at the same time is not hardcore my friend. As a professional gamer my word should be more than enough on this matter.

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#35 Edited by TheTruthIsREAL (809 posts) -

I agree, the West are making better fighting games than Japan. I thought this would be a no brainer but fanboys exist for everything. Here you have the West improving on their game release after release while Japan just make better cartoon art of their characters while the base gameplay and animations stay the same. The ones who disagree with TC seem to cling on to that nostalgia. A formula they do not want changed if it's for better or worse.

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#36 Edited by KungfuKitten (25074 posts) -

Just like there are more wannabe cowboys than cowboys or wannabe FPS pro's (COD) than FPS pro's there are more wannabe fighting game fans (Killer Instinct) than actual fighting game fans.

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#37 Edited by Pikminmaniac (11233 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Holding X and Y at the same time is not hardcore my friend. As a professional gamer my word should be more than enough on this matter.

If you were a "professional gamer" you wouldn't have made such an off the mark thread... Or are you just here to ruffle some feathers.

again, injustice is a fun and solid game, but it in no way competes with the depth and precision gameplay of Super Street Fighter IV, King of Fighters, Tekken, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Virtua Fighter, etc.

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#38 Posted by 06 (998 posts) -

@nonsoville2: and no street fighter 4 and mvc3 are not the highest selling fighters of last gen, please go do some research, MK alone probably outsold both of them. NR fighters sell more then Japanese fighters.

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#39 Edited by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

@Pikminmaniac said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Holding X and Y at the same time is not hardcore my friend. As a professional gamer my word should be more than enough on this matter.

If you were a "professional gamer" you wouldn't have made such an off the mark thread... Or are you just here to ruffle some feathers.

Son, I've been playing for over two decades and was in the official mplayer uk Quake III clan. You have a donkey kong avatar, this implies you are casual.

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#40 Edited by nintendoboy16 (34374 posts) -

@06 said:

@nonsoville2: and no street fighter 4 and mvc3 are not the highest selling fighters of last gen, please go do some research, MK alone probably outsold both of them. NR fighters sell more then Japanese fighters.

Uh... what? MK 2011 at the very least sold around 3 million units. Street Fighter IV sold slightly more then that at around 3.3 million units (add-on Super Street Fighter IV sold around 3 millions when you add both the console and 3DS versions prior to the Arcade Edition). The fighter to outsell both of those (if you consider this next game a fighter that is) is... Super Smash Bros. Brawl at 10 million units.

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#41 Posted by jg4xchamp (61470 posts) -

Lol no

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#42 Edited by Pikminmaniac (11233 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@Pikminmaniac said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Holding X and Y at the same time is not hardcore my friend. As a professional gamer my word should be more than enough on this matter.

If you were a "professional gamer" you wouldn't have made such an off the mark thread... Or are you just here to ruffle some feathers.

Son, I've been playing for over two decades and was in the official mplayer uk Quake III clan. You have a donkey kong avatar, this implies you are casual.

Son, I've been an avid fan of the fighting game community for years and have placed in many local fighting tournaments (playing Street Fighter and Injustice these days). Telling me you know how to play Quake doesn't give you any authority in the fighting genre.

Injustice is a great game, but saying it has more depth than practically any of the big fighting games from Japan just shows a lack of knowledge of the genre.

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#43 Edited by uninspiredcup (26107 posts) -

Being a Quake expert makes you superior at any genre.

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#44 Posted by trollhunter2 (2027 posts) -

Nope nothing comes close to street fighter, from western devs

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#45 Posted by Seabas989 (13205 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

Lol no

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#46 Edited by Arach666 (23254 posts) -

Of course not,don´t be crazy.

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#47 Posted by Lord_Omikron666 (4838 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:

Being a Quake expert makes you superior at any genre.


And with that we can conclude that this is nothing more then just a troll thread.

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#48 Edited by a55a55inx (4188 posts) -

With the exception of Killer Instinct, I feel as though western developers don't put enough focus on character design and animations when developing fighting games. Games like Mortal Kombat and Injustice have drab graphics engines. With the acquisition of the DC Universe lineup, I wish they would have implemented a more colorful graphics engine that emulate their comic book illustrations. Animations, while not bad, still feel mechanical and lack the flashy and fluid movement of Japanese-developed fighting games.

I'm well aware that the fighting engine and overall gameplay are what matters more, but it's possible to combine great gameplay as well as fluid animations and better aesthetics. Games like this already exist in games such as: Marvel vs Capcom, Street Fighter, Soul Caliber, Super Smash Bros. etc...

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#49 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (19564 posts) -

Dead or Alive 5.

Jiggle Jiggle ! :p

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#50 Edited by campzor (34932 posts) -

.