Has Navi and Ryzen 3000 got your hopes up for next gen consoles?

A year ago people were underestimating what next gen consoles would bring to the table.

Some of the arguments were as follows

4 Core / 8 Thread Ryzen @ 2.4 Ghz because that’s all TDP will allow

Vega 56 performance because Navi is GCN and that’s all TDP will allow.

Well Ryzen 3000 is here now, 8 cores, 16 threads at 3.2 Ghz will likely consume less than 35 watts!

Navi is here as well; it’s outperforming Pascal (GTX 1080 for example) per watt, and also outperforming Pascal if the TFLOPS are equal.

In fact Navi is now sometimes outperforming Turing (RTX) in performance per watt, And very very close to Turning in Performance per TFLOP.

It’s starting to look like next gen consoles will at least have 1080 Ti performance + Ray Tracing. Are you excited or bitter about it?

PS, the photo of Scarlett’s Die chip At E3 reveals that Scarlett’s chip is larger than a 5700 XT and Ryzen 3700X combined

Gonna need some links for all these claims.

Exciting times

The CPU boost is the most exciting thing about next-gen consoles as that was their biggest bottleneck before. Not too much to get excited about on the GPU front. If performance is around a GTX 1080, that is nothing to brag about. GTX 1080 will be 4.5 years old when the consoles launch. High end PC GPUs in holiday 2020 will put the new consoles to shame.

5:20 mark

A 3700X @ 3.2 Ghz consumes 34 watts

https://youtu.be/05a26FvwfIs

I think 1080 Ti at the very least, not 1080

still crazy considering many thought Vega 64 performance was impossible; yet a 5700 XT outperforms a VEGA 64 by 15-20% in most games.

We will have to wait and see. I hope that they exceed people's expectations. PC will always be better and my primary platform. However, better console hardware will improve the quality of the exclusives I play on them. Also, it will raise the lowest common denominator for multi-plats.

@rdnav2: Its a 3700x in the video and his pc kept crashing from his under volt.

So? Obviously that’ll be worked out for Consoles..

and yeah I got the names mixed up, does a 3800X even exist?

3700X is 8 cores and 16 threads

@rdnav2: Yes it exists, its a 105w tdp. If its crashing they have to up the voltage hence increase wattage. His build is unstable.

RX 5700 has Turing TU104-TU106 perf/watt. Turing TU102 still has superior perf/watt.

At higher clock speed, RX 5700 XT's perf/watt degrades into Pascal's perf/watt.

Only crashed in Metro

People are under the impression that navi in consoles would be the e same one we have in the 300 dollars 5700

Guys... It will not

That has got me more excited about the future of AMD not consoles, although AMD is still far behind Nvidia when it comes to high end GPU performance.

5700 XT is a 250mm2 die, its Being sold for 3-4 times when it cost to make most likely

@rdnav2:

Forza Horzion 4, MS budgeted geometry for Polaris/Vega quad geometry units and used AMD's "Forward Plus" render recommendation.

https://www.techspot.com/review/1870-amd-radeon-rx-5700/

The real test is with Unreal Engine 4 based games.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt/12.html

This game is based on Unreal Engine 4.

This game is based on Unreal Engine 4.

-----

When both AMD GCN/RDNA and NVIDIA Turing GPUs uses new hardware features such as rapid pack math and async compute via Vulkan API

-----------------

Japanese 3D game engines.

3D Engine: MT Framework

3D Engine: Souls Engine

@rdnav2: Whats your point? The system is unstable. What do you think is going to happen when they start pushing the hardware with next gen titles? I don't think you researched much before you posted.

@ronvalencia: Isn't RX 5700 XT on par with GTX 1080Ti? Even the 1080Ti is a 3yr GPU.

@davillain-: The 5700XT is not on par with a 1080 Ti. It’s closer to a 2070 which is 1080 territory.

Now that's interesting. Seems like I underestimate 5700XT, very good AMD GPU but it's not on my radar. Just wanted to get some clarifications.

It's actually a very meh GPU and offers nothing. The 2070 Super kills it and has many more modern features. The 2060 Super trades blows with it, is cheaper and once again, more modern features.

So this card alone exceeds the TDP of an entire console, is 400$ and slower than a 1080 Ti yet you expect the consoles to sport a GPU that is faster, draws half as much power and costs like 100$ to manufacture?

Yeah...

It depends on workload. On Forza Horzion 4's considerations with MSAA 2X, RX-5700 XT is close to GTX 1080 TI.

Targeted geometry budget and forward plus rendering are Sony and MS favorites.

2070 Super (TU104) is 13 billion transisisors design while both 2060 Super/2070 and RX 5700 XT/5700 are 10 billion transisiors designs.

NAVI 10 is missing DXR, VSR (Variable Shading Rate) and Tensor cores.

NAVI 10 and TU106 has conservative raster, raster ordered views, shader rapid pack maths up to quad rate INT8, delta color compression for the entire graphics pipeline, tiled resource level 4, wave32 compute, hardware async compute, ~4 MB L2 cache and 'etc'.

Well the $350 dollar 5700 beats the vega 64 in most cases so I expect the new consoles to be a little ahead of that.

It depends on how MS fits 5700/5700XT into X1X like box with horizontal CU expansion + lower clock speed, under voltage tricks, TSMC's 7nm+ UV improvements (15 percent lower power) and memory bus 320/384 bits GDDR6.

MS managed to fit 93 percent of RX 580's base clock speed for X1X while delivering 6 TFLOPS alternative with less power consumption and 4 extra GDDR5 chips when compared RX-580.

Both RX-580 and RX-5700 XT has similar TDP numbers with 5700 XT being slightly higher TDP.

a Bigger die with slower clock speeds would draw less power at equal TFLOPS

Scarlette die has been estimated to be 380-400mm2.

5700 XT is 250mm2

3700x is 70nm2

@rdnav2:

Lol, you're forgetting something...

The new consoles won’t match a 5700xt and a Ryzen 7 at $499. Now that we know what AMD has been cooking, my expectations for next gen are even lower.

@rdnav2: So the Scarlett won’t have a RAM and the CPU will draw 0W?

Also whatever hardware solution they’ll use for ray tracing will also take die space.

Its actually closer to a 1080 Ti than it is a GTX 1080 according to Techpowerup Testing

5700 XT is 20% more performance than GTX 1080

1080 Ti is 9% more performance than 5700 XT

is the 5700 & 5700 XT AMD main card for the next 2 years? its decent but not mindblowing, I mean even the XT is just around 2060 Super performance (albeit XT is a new card, still not mature yet so may have some performance gain after some updates).

The Ryzen 3rd gen though, really made the intel lineup obsolete.

No, they’ll have more coming either Late 2019 or early 2020

Intel still performs better in games so I wouldn't say that.

You mean 365-380mm2.

The difference is not huge anymore though, plus it works better in almost every other area too and even thermal is more efficient than Intel. I cannot see Intel fighting this other than lowering their prices

Intel have been sitting on their asses for too long. As an owner of a 9900K I'm not complaining.

No. "RDNA 2" next year.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-vii-reaches-end-of-life

Radeon VII "End of Life".

AMD Radeon VII is no more

Cowcotland has just confirmed with their sources that AMD Radeon VII is no longer in production. The stores are selling the remaining stock and apparently, no more Radeon VII cards will be made.

According to Cowcotland, Radeon VII was declared ‘end of life’ last month by AMD.

The Radeon VII is AMD’s first 7nm-based graphics card featuring Vega 20 GPU with 3840 Stream Processors. The VII was also AMD’s first to feature 16GB memory for the consumer market.

With the announcement of Radeon RX 5700 series, it became clear that VII is simply not as power-efficient and cost-effective solution as Navi-based models.

This also puts an end to rumors about custom Radeon ‘7’ models.

GCN is a dead end architecture.

PS; NAVI can run GCN's wave64 instructions as two wave32 compute as backward compatibility.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Navi-12-14-21-and-Lite-variants-of-AMD-s-latest-GPU-range-revealed-in-Linux-driver-code-RX-5800-could-take-on-the-GeForce-RTX-2080.424788.0.html

With the Radeon RX 5700 series set to take on the GeForce RTX 2060 and RTX 2070 it could be left to an RX 5800 series with Navi 21 GPUs to give Nvidia’s GeForce RTX 2080 and RTX 2080 Ti some proper competition

NAVI 21 and NAVI 21 Lite coming....

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-post-e3-2019.61245/page-8

Alright broke out the measurement taping and found out some things about Navi and the Anaconda in terms of sizes on 7nm.

5700:

GDDR6 phy controller: 4.5mm x 8

Dual CU: 3.37mm x 20

4 ROP cluster: .55mm x 16

L1+L2+ACE+Gemotry processor+empty buffer spaces + etc: 139mm

Now Anaconda:

A rougher estimate using the 12x14mm GDDR6 chips next to the SOC.

370 mm-390 mm.

It's a bit bigger than the 1X SOC for sure.

If we use the figure of 380mm,

75mm for CPU

45mm for 10 GDDR6 controllers

8.8mm for ROPs

140mm for buses, caches, ACE, geometry processors, shape etc. I might be over estimating this part as the 5700 seems to have lots of "empty" areas.

We have ~110mm left for CUs + RT hardware. There is enough there for ~30 dual CUs and RT extensions.

Conclusion:

The Anaconda SOC is around the minimum size you need to fit the maximum Navi GPU and Zen2 cores.

I expect Anaconda to have a minimum of 48 CUs if the secret sauce is extra heavy or 60CUs if the sauce is light.

370 mm2 to 390 mm2 estimated.

You can actually get a 5700 for $300 at Microcenter if you but a Ryzen 3000 CPU too

60 CU would be crazy.

Anything above 48 CU’s would be gravy.

Im hoping for at least 52 CU if the “sauce is light”

You may want to look up the word 'obsolete'.

Intel is still winning in gaming benchmarks, which is all that matters in a console scenario. What are you gonna do? Edit 4k video on your console?

Amd have def cm a long way since their phenom cpus. Keep in mind whenever amd supplies apu they usually factor the price for the cpu & gpu. Else be ptepared to shell 600-700$ for the next gen system

Not really, it doesn't get my hopes up. Amazing graphics aren't gonna make a boring game fun. The majority of the graphics-intensive exclusives are still boring.

Why are you people measuring die size as if it matters most?...

X1X managed to get higher than RX 480 CU counts because the RX 480 was a 150w TDP card and all they got was 4 CU's more so, but the 5700 XT is a 225w TDP card... Higher CU than a XT?... Yeah not happening.

Based on TDP of Navi the next generation of consoles are looking at 5700 Pro with dedicated ray tracing cores.

52-60CU's?... GTFO, those cards when released on PC will be 250-300w GPU's running at 94c. Its just not happening on a console.

Navi is hot and runs higher TDP than polaris with the same CU counts

• 5700 - 36 CU - 180w TDP - 84c with a better blower cooler
• 480 - 36 CU - 150w TDP - 79c with a worse blower cooler

A 52-60CU Navi chip on a APU with additional ray tracing cores design to be cooled with one fan and run at 150w in a plastic box?... You guys are retarded.

• 40 CU with 4 CU's disabled = Worst case
• 44 CU with 4 CU's disabled = Most likely
• 48 CU with 4 CU's disabled = best case

There is a reason why Microsoft didn't talk about teraflops during their reveal event because their chips will not be higher than XT levels, it might have the same CU count but would have to lower clocks to get those CU's which would lower the TFLOP count to 9-10.

X1X got higher CU's than a RX 480 which was low powered GPU and the X1X runs at lower clocks just to get those extra CU's which is why they are both 6TFLOP, the XT is not a low powered GPU at all its TDP is closer to a 1080 Ti than it is a 1060.

Just look at the difference 4 extra CU's does to Navi in terms of TDP 5700 vs XT:

60CUs?...

You guys are drunk.

1080TI?

lol you wish

shit will be a 2060 super. some crap like that.

cpu will be underclock to save heat.

4k 30fps medium settings or 1800P checkerboard4k 30fps medium settings/high settings

1400p checkerboard 4k 60fps. high settings

Honestly, without seeing anything next gen related game-wise... I've got little to no hype. It has nothing to do with the Navi.

Power consumption doesn’t look like a problem

https://youtu.be/7_GvOe1_UKs