Halflife: Alyx VR Hype thread - 1-800-273-8255

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#351 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7048 Posts

This is basically all these guy's here...

Loading Video...

TLDR... The "reviewer" admitted his hate towards VR was the fact that he never had one or could afford one. Then bam all of a sudden its good and he's having fun because someone sent him it.

Stop it guys its getting pathetic.

Your "opinions" on hardware you don't own about a game on that hardware is a fart in the wind and only exposes your desperation and insecurity.

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#352  Edited By Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7048 Posts

@dzimm:Again another person who can't comprehend things properly.

VR uses the speed and movement of a person thus games speeds and things you can do are different... Its not "VR dazzle", unless you call life real life dazzle, because that is the goal of VR to put you in a game environment with as much interaction as they can put into it that replicates what you would do in real life.

Also what do you mean gameplay?... Because doing things fast isn't gameplay, and finding a VR game easy in 2D doesn't represent what its like in 3D.

VR add's layers of gameplay it doesn't remove them, interacting with the environment and reloading a gun while having enemies around you in VR is completely different to a 2D game and requires more game play layers to pull off.

Like I said above... This video represents you guys to a T.

Loading Video...

You can try to convince other people like you who haven't played a modern VR game and are bitter of it... But not the rest.

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zakwas69

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#353 zakwas69
Member since 2020 • 3 Posts

9/10

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uninspiredcup

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#354  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

Crysis is a good analogy, pretty much that shit all over again.

I can't have thing, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy.

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#355 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5828 Posts

@pinkribbonscars said:
@dzimm said:
@pinkribbonscars said:
@dzimm said:
@pinkribbonscars said:

You pancake peasants are literally beginning to sound like console peasants when Crysis released

What are you talking about? You're the one who said that 99% of the game is VR gimmickry, suggesting that without VR to dazzle you, there's not much left of any interest from a gameplay standpoint. ¯\__(ツ)__/¯

At least Valve has admitted that this is just a niche title, and that Half-Life 3 will be developed as a proper game.

You continue to sound more and more like a console peasant describing Crysis.

"Without the graphics to dazzle you, there's not much left of any interest from a gameplay standpoint" < literally what butthurt console peasants said about Crysis

VR isn't just a visual effect. There's so many moments in Alyx that just wouldn't work without VRs 6DoF, just like how in Crysis the gameplay wouldn't be anywhere near as dynamic or emergent without it's physics engine

Dude, again, what are you talking about? You're the one who said that the VR gimmick was 99% of what made Half-Life: Alyx worth playing. Those are your words, not mine.

Again, calling VR a gimmick is like calling Crysis's graphics or physics engine a gimmick. I'm sorry you're poor dude, but you don't need to act like a console peasant because you can't afford a set up to play Alyx.

Graphics and physics are a gimmick. Look at the original Unreal. At the time of its release, Unreal's graphics were, well, unreal. Nobody had ever seen anything like it, but you never hear people talk about it any more because the gameplay was pretty bad, so once the novelty of the shiny graphics wore off, you ended up with a very forgettable experience. Now consider the original Half-Life. Its graphics weren't even the best at the time, but the gameplay made it unforgettable, and it still holds up very well today.

So when someone tells me that Half-Life: Alyx is 99% a VR gimmick and 1% gameplay, what impression am I supposed to walk away with? Is this the Unreal of VR games that will be forgotten about once the novelty of the VR experience wears off?

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dzimm

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#356 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5828 Posts

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

You can try to convince other people like you who haven't played a modern VR game and are bitter of it... But not the rest.

It's not my opinion. I'm just taking pinkribbonscars who has played it at his word when he said that the VR gimmick is 99% of what makes Half-Life: Alyx worth playing, meaning that once the novelty of VR inevitably wears off (and don't kid yourself, it will, just like "state of the art" graphics quickly lose their luster), there's going to be little reason to bother with it again.

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sirk1264

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#357 sirk1264
Member since 2003 • 6070 Posts

All I can say is that I just started playing this game on my rift s and man is it fantastic. Love the atmosphere and the gameplay too. The environment gives a horror vibe and it does get pretty intense.

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#358 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7048 Posts

@dzimm said:

Graphics and physics are a gimmick. Look at the original Unreal. At the time of its release, Unreal's graphics were, well, unreal. Nobody had ever seen anything like it, but you never hear people talk about it any more because the gameplay was pretty bad, so once the novelty of the shiny graphics wore off, you ended up with a very forgettable experience. Now consider the original Half-Life. Its graphics weren't even the best at the time, but the gameplay made it unforgettable, and it still holds up very well today.

So when someone tells me that Half-Life: Alyx is 99% a VR gimmick and 1% gameplay, what impression am I supposed to walk away with? Is this the Unreal of VR games that will be forgotten about once the novelty of the VR experience wears off?

He never said that. You are just twisting his words to suit your agenda.

He said:

@dzimm said:
@pinkribbonscars said:
@dzimm said:

By the way, Half-Life: Alyx apparently plays just fine without VR using a mouse and keyboard.

Sorry if you wasted your money on a headset.

https://wccftech.com/half-life-alyx-without-vr/

Playing Alyx in pancake mode would literally lose 99% of what makes it so amazing.

Interesting. Is the gameplay really that bad?

You are CLEARLY trying your hardest to connect gameplay in VR to gimmicks.

Also since you and the other plum keep talking about gameplay so much please explain to us exactly what you mean by gameplay?...

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it.

What @pinkribbonscars was saying is that porting a 3D game into a 2D space would be a completely different experience and would lose 99% of what makes that game.

Here is a a example of why VR game is not the same as a 2D fps when it comes to GAMEPLAY:

  • Reloading in 2D = One button and takes a second or less to do.
  • Reloading in VR = Empty your clip, reach hand over head and grab new clip then insert new clip into gun and cock it.

Gameplay?... You don't understand the meaning of the word.

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uninspiredcup

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#359  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

Imagine if Valve patched something like this in for additional replays.

Loading Video...

Missed opportunity.

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dzimm

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#360 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5828 Posts

Stumbled across this comment on the Steam forums that validates what I've been saying:

Truth be told, I'm already getting bored of Alyx and I'm not even half-way through the game. The initial wow factor of the VR stuff has already started to wear off, and all I'm left with is a generic half-life game with fancier graphics.

...

Is Half-life Alyx a good game?

Yes.

Has it discredited the notion that VR is just a very technically impressive gimmick?

No.

Source

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uninspiredcup

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#361  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

Ah, the 0.2% giving that sweet confirmation bias when everything else in reality says otherwise.

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#362 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7048 Posts

@dzimm said:

Stumbled across this comment on the Steam forums that validates what I've been saying:

Truth be told, I'm already getting bored of Alyx and I'm not even half-way through the game. The initial wow factor of the VR stuff has already started to wear off, and all I'm left with is a generic half-life game with fancier graphics.

...

Is Half-life Alyx a good game?

Yes.

Has it discredited the notion that VR is just a very technically impressive gimmick?

No.

Source

The butt hurt guy who can't play VR games because his eye's are too sensitive and that his PC has to play it on low while he claims his PC as impressive?...

So after letting my Oculus gather dust for a few years I finally decided to go through the hassle of setting it up again for Half-Life Alyx after all the hype surrounding that game to see if it was worth it. Instead, I was just reminded of why I put the Oculus away in the first place.

I simply cannot use VR for more than 30-40 min at a time. No matter how much I try to adjust the headset or fiddle around with settings, the same thing always happens: Things are fun for 20-30 min, then my eyes start becoming extremely dry to a point of literally hurting very badly (I try blinking often but it makes no difference). Then not long after I start experiencing minor headaches that quickly go away after I stop using the Rift.

This is why I gave up on using the Rift last time. It's not that there aren't any fun games, it's just that it's so uncomfortable to use that it doesn't even matter. That's not even mentioning other problems like sweating and heat.

To be fair, Alyx is a fun game. And I agree that it's the best VR game to date. But that isn't saying much. That said, while otherwise fun Half-life Alyx is a good example of how VR will always impose annoying limitations to game design that would not exist otherwise. A good example is limiting the speed of the action and slower pacing, because otherwise the game would be unplayable for most people in VR. VR games have to be slower paced to work. Period. Nobody is going to play something like Doom Eternal in VR.

Then there's all the annoying gimmicks. It appears to be an unwritten rule that every VR game must have annoying mini-games that take advantage of the motion controls. And indeed, Alyx is full of them. Want to unlock a force field? Mini-game. Want to open a computer console? Mini-game. Want to use a weapon upgrade station? Mini-game. It's just annoying and does nothing except slow down the pacing of the game.

Which brings me to the next point. As cool as I felt it was walking around inside of a Half-life level while headcrabs leaped into my face, I still feel VR is largely just a gimmick. A very, very cool and impressive gimmick. But still ultimately just a gimmick. Was it really insane and cool to have a headcrab leap into my face the first few times? Was it really cool looking at ceilings and seeing actual life-size barnacles there? Yes.

But those things were only cool the first dozen times. Then the novelty wore off.

Same with the guns. Being able to point and shoot your guns with your actual hands felt super cool at first, but after a while you realize that it's still ultimately just the same kind of point & shoot combat that you are use to having in non-VR games except your aim is worse and hitting things is harder. Which btw forces you to aim slowly and carefully, thus lowering the pacing of the game.

Truth be told, I'm already getting bored of Alyx and I'm not even half-way through the game. The initial wow factor of the VR stuff has already started to wear off, and all I'm left with is a generic half-life game with fancier graphics. Fancier graphics which I can't even properly enjoy anyway because the resolution on the rift is too low. Game easily looks 10x better on youtube playthrough than on the actual rift simply because the videos are high res and crisp compared to looking at it in-game through the actual rift.

And the best part? Despite having a very high end gaming PC (Has a 1080 and 16 GB RAM, can play Eternal at 2560 resolution at highest settings with 60+ fps) Alyx still recommends I play at the lowest settings in order to have good performance. Despite the fact I have a better gaming PC than literally 90% of people. If I bought an Index which has higher resolution than the rift my PC might not even be good enough to play it with a decent framerate...

I'm sorry but VR will never be mainstream. Even this new flagship game has not been successful in debunking the idea that VR is ultimately just about wowing you with an initial coolness factor that then quickly fades away after a while. It's still just a gimmick in the end.

Just like you he's a butt hurt person who is angry that he can't play VR games because of his own eyes... He's angry that his PC is no longer the top dog... He's angry that his Original oculus hasn't aged well.

Then he spends 1/2 confused saying that he physically can't do things and wouldn't want to do things quicker in VR... Then talks about the game being slow.

You have found a person just like you. Someone who is so insecure that because THEY cannot play it are angry so look for reasons to hate it.

Also he talks about the puzzles/hacking as a gimmick?... Right where as opening locks on non VR games is ground breaking mouth watering gameplay.

Pathetic.

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GoldenElementXL

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#363 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 4220 Posts

@dzimm said:

Stumbled across this comment on the Steam forums that validates what I've been saying:

Truth be told, I'm already getting bored of Alyx and I'm not even half-way through the game. The initial wow factor of the VR stuff has already started to wear off, and all I'm left with is a generic half-life game with fancier graphics.

...

Is Half-life Alyx a good game?

Yes.

Has it discredited the notion that VR is just a very technically impressive gimmick?

No.

Source

LMAO at that "source"

Are you the source?

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uninspiredcup

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#364 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

LMAO at that "source"

Are you the source?

Haha, that would be great.

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#365 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 14162 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

Crysis is a good analogy, pretty much that shit all over again.

I can't have thing, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy.

the system that run Crysis also run Doom 3, Half life 2 and also STALKER that time.

what VR runs anyways??

people complain about epic store exclusivity when this is much worse.

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#366 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 39138 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

the system that run Crysis also run Doom 3, Half life 2 and also STALKER that time.

what VR runs anyways??

people complain about epic store exclusivity when this is much worse.

You need a graphics card to play accelerated 3D games, just like you need a VR system to play VR games. Games are made for hardware and hardware are made for games.

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Ghosts4ever

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#367 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 14162 Posts

@Pedro said:
@ghosts4ever said:

the system that run Crysis also run Doom 3, Half life 2 and also STALKER that time.

what VR runs anyways??

people complain about epic store exclusivity when this is much worse.

You need a graphics card to play accelerated 3D games, just like you need a VR system to play VR games. Games are made for hardware and hardware are made for games.

you required gaming PC to play PC games.

here you required gaming PC plus a device which cost same as gaming PC to play one game.

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#368  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 39138 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

you required gaming PC to play PC games.

here you required gaming PC plus a device which cost same as gaming PC to play one game.

A gaming PC has hardware requirements. Games have requirements. VR has requirements. And stop with the falsehood it cost the same as a gaming PC.

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#369 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5828 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:
@dzimm said:

Stumbled across this comment on the Steam forums that validates what I've been saying:

Truth be told, I'm already getting bored of Alyx and I'm not even half-way through the game. The initial wow factor of the VR stuff has already started to wear off, and all I'm left with is a generic half-life game with fancier graphics.

...

Is Half-life Alyx a good game?

Yes.

Has it discredited the notion that VR is just a very technically impressive gimmick?

No.

Source

LMAO at that "source"

Are you the source?

I am not.

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dzimm

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#370  Edited By dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5828 Posts
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

The butt hurt guy who can't play VR games because his eye's are too sensitive and that his PC has to play it on low while he claims his PC as impressive?...

Just like you he's a butt hurt person who is angry that he can't play VR games because of his own eyes... He's angry that his PC is no longer the top dog... He's angry that his Original oculus hasn't aged well.

Then he spends 1/2 confused saying that he physically can't do things and wouldn't want to do things quicker in VR... Then talks about the game being slow.

You have found a person just like you. Someone who is so insecure that because THEY cannot play it are angry so look for reasons to hate it.

Also he talks about the puzzles/hacking as a gimmick?... Right where as opening locks on non VR games is ground breaking mouth watering gameplay.

Pathetic.

Attempting to invalidate someone else's personal experience is a rather poor way to argue. This is akin to the vacuous "git gud" rejoinder when someone points out legitimate problems with a particular game. Despite whatever problems he might have, he's still put 6-hours into a game that takes 7-hours on average to finish, so he's invested more than enough time to reasonably assess the quality of the product. The fact that you can only appeal to the ad hominen fallacy rather than address any specific points he makes is evidence of your own insecurity.

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uninspiredcup

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#372 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

It's been a real privilege to play such a masterpiece, and it will be difficult to go back to flat-screen FPS after this.

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#373  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

So having shot through it again I think by far the weakest part of this is the Strider fight. It's closer to a Call Of Duty theme park sequence than a Halflife title, with oh look big-gun is so fucking random, it reminds me of the 3 ant-loins standing at the window, didn't feel natural, which is something key to Halflife.

The final Strider fight at the end of Episode 1 was considerably better imo.

Having said that, the sequence after this which is the equivalent of Halflife 2's super-gravity-gun is better, because the player isn't basically completely invulnerable and it doesn't drag on, it's perfectly paced.

Although, again, all the grenades on the wall though are unnatural.

What is also does better, closer to Halflife 1 than Halflife 2 is not getting the player bogged down with NCP exposition. In the first play-through on Halflife 2, fine. Multiple play-through it's basically an unskippable cutscene, aside from Russels intro, this never happens again, all snappy audio (compared to Portals 2's never STFU), that's great and never grating.

Alyx character is more downbeat and not that dumbass shouting "hey look Gordon, thing!" or acting like Episode 1 is a lovely holiday when like, a million people are dead because Valve researched people like "happy characters".

The main complaint more so than the tamer AI is the combat arenas feel like very obvious arenas, Halflife 2 for it's weak gun-play felt like a natural A-Z progression of an organic environment where the designers hand wasn't advertised on a big billboard.

The actual VR aspect most of what people like about Halflife, better and improves about Halflife 2 what people hated, the guns are super satisfying to use even on very mundane enemies like head-crabs.

The shotgun especially is mega-satisfying to use, be it firing or the actual act of reloading.

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#374 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts
Loading Video...

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WhatAFailure

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#376  Edited By WhatAFailure
Member since 2017 • 537 Posts
@dzimm said:

Attempting to invalidate someone else's personal experience is a rather poor way to argue. This is akin to the vacuous "git gud" rejoinder when someone points out legitimate problems with a particular game. Despite whatever problems he might have, he's still put 6-hours into a game that takes 7-hours on average to finish, so he's invested more than enough time to reasonably assess the quality of the product. The fact that you can only appeal to the ad hominen fallacy rather than address any specific points he makes is evidence of your own insecurity.

The game doesn't take 7 hours to finish. Nobody is finishing it in 7 hours on their first playthrough, unless they're playing on Easy Wimpy Mode for the memes and streams where the Combine barely tickle you. The average is 14 hours. You picked the worst reviewer: someone who admits they can't play VR for more than 30 minutes (so he has a built-in bias already since he starts to physically feel ill every time he thinks, looks at or sniffs a VR headset). Would I ever hire this guy as an official VR reviewer for IGN and Gamespot one day? I'm not making fun of his condition, but if he does have a condition, you need to put a verbal condition on his incomplete and very biased review. Some people don't like or can't handle roller coasters. That's fine. Maybe I don't rely on their review of theme parks then.

You're flaunting his Steam review as if he was some professional VR journalist and enthusiast, when he sounds more like a uber-casual VR player with very limited hours. Would you want me to find a bad review for Doom Eternal, Metro Exodus and STALKER from gamers who don't really like PC games, scary games, and aren't very good with kb/m and get hand cramps after 30 minutes? You want me to take that review as gospel and condemn all of PC gaming - the way you're taking that guy's review?

Also, you've dropped a lot of hilarious lines and bad takes on VR (too much to quote), with zero logged in hours and not ONE completed VR game. Your opinion goes straight to the back of the line. There's a lot of toilets in Half Life Alyx, btw. Maybe your opinion goes there? Because it sure doesn't add value or knowledge to gamers and developers. You can't do anything useful with deficient, uninformed and inexperienced opinions...except laugh, and spend time having to correct their mistakes.

NES sidescrollers, platformers, RPGs, open world games and general 2D gaming have been given so much time (decades!) to grow and mature through feedback, but you seem quick to try to squash VR's future right when it's starting out without even using the technology you're criticizing. No constructive criticism, just "it gimmick, it bad! I didn't actually try it, but I know everything." You're going to have to deliver something more than gamer insecurity, irrational tech aversion and quasi-jealousy, because that's always in high supply and does absolutely nothing to convince people that your side of the argument is better.

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#377 WhatAFailure
Member since 2017 • 537 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:

So having shot through it again I think by far the weakest part of this is the Strider fight. It's closer to a Call Of Duty theme park sequence than a Halflife title, with oh look big-gun is so fucking random, it reminds me of the 3 ant-loins standing at the window, didn't feel natural, which is something key to Halflife.

The final Strider fight at the end of Episode 1 was considerably better imo.

Having said that, the sequence after this which is the equivalent of Halflife 2's super-gravity-gun is better, because the player isn't basically completely invulnerable and it doesn't drag on, it's perfectly paced.

Although, again, all the grenades on the wall though are unnatural.

What is also does better, closer to Halflife 1 than Halflife 2 is not getting the player bogged down with NCP exposition. In the first play-through on Halflife 2, fine. Multiple play-through it's basically an unskippable cutscene, aside from Russels intro, this never happens again, all snappy audio (compared to Portals 2's never STFU), that's great and never grating.

Alyx character is more downbeat and not that dumbass shouting "hey look Gordon, thing!" or acting like Episode 1 is a lovely holiday when like, a million people are dead because Valve researched people like "happy characters".

The main complaint more so than the tamer AI is the combat arenas feel like very obvious arenas, Halflife 2 for it's weak gun-play felt like a natural A-Z progression of an organic environment where the designers hand wasn't advertised on a big billboard.

The actual VR aspect most of what people like about Halflife, better and improves about Halflife 2 what people hated, the guns are super satisfying to use even on very mundane enemies like head-crabs.

The shotgun especially is mega-satisfying to use, be it firing or the actual act of reloading.

I also think many of the open areas were too obvious and you knew it would be a Combine battle. I would've liked more stray Combine guards just randomly dotted throughout, like he was given the crap job of being the lone scout about to get ass kicked. Hell, even have one pissing in an alley and turned away from Alyx. Would be a funny thing (although I have no idea if Combine even go to the bathroom normally...they looked f'ed up underneath their masks and no longer human). Combine were also a little too spongy in many instances, hardly moving when shot in the head multiple times. I'm sure that other guy reading this is going "SEE, VR is dead!" No, bro, that is not a VR criticism. That's just AI and game design bits that can be improved for future games.

The reloading of all the guns is cool and satisfying, and because it does take time to reload, I was forced to be more mindful of ammo management and my backup weapons. I approached corridors and new rooms more tactically, like I was a Navy Seal who had to clear a room, pointing my gun forward and gently nudging a door open. The tension, excitement, fear and primal self-preservation instincts are kicked into high gear many times in VR. That other guy reading this with zero VR game time won't ever understand this.

And to those VR haters out there who never tried VR, I doubt a future Half Life game is coming to 2D. Stop acting like Alyx was a cheap side experiment (it's a full lustrous AAA game with high production values, deal with it). I could be wrong and Valve might throw a future HL game onto 2D, but with the things you can do in HL Alyx, going to 2D would be a huge step back. You'd almost feel robbed of abilities/freedom you were granted in VR, having to go back to rigid 2D reloading, mouse head turning, and grabbing of objects that just float in the air in front of chest with a button press. That other guy reading this still thinks all those things are more immersive & perfect and needs no change and can stay that way for another 30 years, and that grabbing things with your actual hands in VR and leaning your head in to examine something is somehow worse.

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#378 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

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#379 PinkRibbonScars
Member since 2019 • 809 Posts

What do you guys think?

Possible Barney easter egg

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#380 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

@pinkribbonscars: Thought it was just some rando refugee.

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Really wish these fellows would use Alyx as an opportunity via Kickstarter to up their funds so they could produce something in size comparable to Alyx or the original Thief games.

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The base game is solid, outside of "Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age" probably the best unofficial sequel around atm.

Just been sitting in EA for years, updated for sure, but with about 4 hours of content and very sparse clearly-low-budget environments.

Such a wasted opportunity.

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#381 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

Wait.. we can do that?

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#382 sirk1264
Member since 2003 • 6070 Posts

Just finished this game last night and wow what an experience. One of the best VR games I played.

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#383 sirk1264
Member since 2003 • 6070 Posts

@uninspiredcup: What is that used for? I’ve tried countless times to rip that thing out and just gave up.

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#384 PinkRibbonScars
Member since 2019 • 809 Posts

@sirk1264 said:

@uninspiredcup: What is that used for? I’ve tried countless times to rip that thing out and just gave up.

Xen grenade. Gotta snatch it fast, or you can poke its "stomach" and it'll loosen it's grip

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#385 PinkRibbonScars
Member since 2019 • 809 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

Wait.. we can do that?

Have you seen this? There's so many cool little details in Alyx

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#386  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 39525 Posts

@pinkribbonscars: First playthrough missed that all the washing-machines could be properly used (including putting stuff inside them) and that you could physically take pieces of paper (with the cat), as well as look inside one of the windows.

Didn't even know about the cat itself until the easter-egg video, thought it was just some rando thing.