God of War director admits they can't compete with Rockstar, Ubisoft, CD Projekt Red

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#51 Edited by OliverSnyders (149 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@Jacanuk: GTAV also cost significantly more to make.

GTAV broke pre-order records, sales records and is still printing money to this day. At this point you can justify pretty much any development cost.

@pdogg93 said:

I’m gonna say it. Open world games for the sake of being open world are annoying and lifeless.

There are so many gaps between the main story line that you’re supposed to fill with your own imagination by riding around aimlessly in an empty world. Examples: RDR2 and Witcher 3.

That being said I love RDR2. God of war was perfect in terms of your ability to choose your own path.

How do they feel barren and empty? I feel like we played completely different games. It’s really insane what CDPR is able to accomplish in their open world. RDR2's world had stuff constantly going on around you, animals, random passerbys, random quests to help people out, the world was incredibly detailed with cities and structures dotted across the more rural parts. I don't understand anyone that calls it empty.

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#52 Posted by Vaeh (472 posts) -

Nothing comes close to the Witcher 3 this gen except maybe RDR2. The complete package, content-wise, is still unmatched.

@oliversnyders said:

Polygon: GoW is an open world game lol

lol it's not even semi-open world.

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#53 Posted by pdogg93 (1573 posts) -

@oliversnyders: animals and passers by. That’s about it. It’s all the same once you do it 2-3 times.

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#54 Posted by PimpHand_Gamer (2855 posts) -

Wow the GOW fans are coming out to do some immediate damage control. Can't have their nut swings being down on themselves like that.

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#55 Edited by BoxRekt (1415 posts) -

Yet I've never really enjoyed any GTA title and The Witcher 3 kind of failed in the gameplay department so I'd say if the God of War director says they can't compete with those guys, it's a good thing.

I wouldn't want any more developer trying to make unenjoyable and mediocre playing games.

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#56 Posted by Jacanuk (18493 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:
@Jacanuk said:
@blackhairedhero said:

Yet GoW still won more GotY's.

Yet, GTA V has sold almost 100million copies.

Which thing do you think the developers and their investors/shareholders want the most? a few meaningless "awards" or a massive sale of the game.

It's about profit, not about revenue.

Games like RDR 2, GTA V and AC need to sell more copies, because they are made by bigger teams.

Your point?

GTA V is one of the most profitable games ever, and in its first 6months made over ½ billion on shark cards alone.

So again what do you think a developer/publisher wants? Awards or money.

Awards are fine but you can´t pay the bills with awards.

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#57 Posted by Jacanuk (18493 posts) -

@blackhairedhero said:

@Diddies: Probably, but the quality of a game and a dev studio usually isn't determined by profit. By that standard mobile game devs are the best in the world.

Well, it all depends on how you measure quality.

Is quality speaking to a massive amount of people or speaking to a few very select group of people.

I would go with the first, some may go with the second, but they are usually also the people who like poor things like french movies ;)

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#58 Posted by PC_Rocks (2316 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@pc_rocks: or perhaps thought for yourself? They couldn’t do it presently, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t do it.

Yeah, that's like saying I can establish a company like Google, Amazon and Microsoft sometime in the future. I just couldn't do it presently given my financial condition and lack of business knowledge but I can always do it in the future.

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#59 Posted by PC_Rocks (2316 posts) -

It's funny how cows are twisting the devs own words or try to defend it by saying but but...GTA V had a bigger budget and bigger team. For sure they didn't take it into account when someone brings 4A Games or their lack of access to performance capture and cows run amok making fun of character animation in Metro Games or how they made fun of QB's animation when QB only had 4 animators compared to 30 or 40 for UC4.

Their next defense is hiding behind mechanics by calling GoW better than RDR 2 but they brush aside all complaints when compared to games like DMC, Bayonetta, NG etc. In that case it's about the adventure, story and presentation only. The other thread is a living proof of that.

All in all, Sony only excels at presentation in their games and put most of its budget in that (40 animators to make Drake's cutscenes) but then again they couldn't match it as good as devs like Rockstar.

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#60 Posted by OliverSnyders (149 posts) -

@pdogg93: Sure calling it repetitive I can understand because you are going back and forth a lot through similar trails and roads, but I don't think barren and empty are fair descriptors.

@vaeh said:

Nothing comes close to the Witcher 3 this gen except maybe RDR2. The complete package, content-wise, is still unmatched.

@oliversnyders said:

Polygon: GoW is an open world game lol

lol it's not even semi-open world.

Barlog used the term "wide-linear". Lolygon never cease to amaze me.

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#61 Posted by Vaeh (472 posts) -
@oliversnyders said:
@vaeh said:

Nothing comes close to the Witcher 3 this gen except maybe RDR2. The complete package, content-wise, is still unmatched.

@oliversnyders said:

Polygon: GoW is an open world game lol

lol it's not even semi-open world.

Barlog used the term "wide-linear". Lolygon never cease to amaze me.

Coincidentally, Druckmann called it exactly that, "wide-linear". Uncharted 4 isn’t open world, but it is “wide-linear”

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#62 Edited by Kali-B1rd (2146 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@Diddies: Probably, but the quality of a game and a dev studio usually isn't determined by profit. By that standard mobile game devs are the best in the world.

The truth lies in the middle.

Plenty of 8.0-8.9 games with excellent game play, but because they don't have the production values, they don't get GOTY status.

You could argue a game that pulls in 100 millions is just a better GAME than the GOTY game that pulls in 5 million but looks like an art master piece. You can also argue the opposite is true. Gaming genres also differ heavily and GOTY will often be chosen on Accessibility/Production values instead of being that "Game that people play for generations".

GOTY is crap, and lowest common denominator sales is crap. There is no correct way to do it.

Skyrim for example, gets shat on by many because it 1) looks ugly/dated engine , 2) has lots of copy pasta. But oh look. amazing reviews AND amazing sales, and is STILL selling to this day ... a singleplayer game... why? because while its ROUGH overall, its gameplay scenarios are varied and the possibilities with mods are endless.

in my mind THIS stands out far more than Witcher 3 / God of War etc, because those games just won't have the flexibility, the legs ... they are very restricted.

GTA5/RDR2 - yup, open world, can get boring, but they have many different possibilities and because of that, Thier gameplay will last YEARS.

I think that is sound logic.

Didn't Journey win GOTY? nobody gives a f*ck about it 2 seconds later.... because it was a walking simulator. we don't talk about MGS4 anymore either because it was 6 hours of gameplay, 30 hours of cutscenes. We don't talk about Last of Us anymore, because its a 1 play then throw away... no legs, no ambition, just pretty and well made.

World of Warcraft - 2004... still one of the highest selling games today.

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#63 Edited by Blackhairedhero (3234 posts) -

@kali-b1rd: alot of people still talk about TloU and MGS4. If they didn't they wouldn't be so excited about the sequels. Sometimes you may only play through a game once or twice but it has a lasting effect that lingers on far after you play it. Journey? Yea that was absolute trash not sure how it ever won GotY. My point is if the games you make are consistently top Quality I think that makes you a top tier dev.

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#64 Edited by MirkoS77 (14143 posts) -
@pc_rocks said:
@MirkoS77 said:

@pc_rocks: or perhaps thought for yourself? They couldn’t do it presently, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t do it.

Yeah, that's like saying I can establish a company like Google, Amazon and Microsoft sometime in the future. I just couldn't do it presently given my financial condition and lack of business knowledge but I can always do it in the future.

Sure you could establish a company like Google, Amazon, etc, sometimes in the future. You think these companies didn't start out small and work within their means at the time? Apple started out in Jobs' garage, calling around to companies and begging for circuit boards. Nothing precludes a studio of such talent except the disinterest to take such initiative.

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#65 Posted by Nonstop-Madness (10059 posts) -

Wasn't Santa Monica's cancelled new IP open world? I'm sure they must have some of the toolset / tech built already.

Also, Guerilla was making FPS's, and ended up making a phenomenal open world game on their first try; I'm sure Santa Monica could make a fantastic open world game.

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#66 Posted by PC_Rocks (2316 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@MirkoS77 said:

@pc_rocks: or perhaps thought for yourself? They couldn’t do it presently, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t do it.

Yeah, that's like saying I can establish a company like Google, Amazon and Microsoft sometime in the future. I just couldn't do it presently given my financial condition and lack of business knowledge but I can always do it in the future.

Sure you could establish a company like Google, Amazon, etc, sometimes in the future. You think these companies didn't start out small and work within their means at the time? Apple started out in Jobs' garage, calling around to companies and begging for circuit boards. Nothing precludes a studio of such talent except the disinterest to take such initiative.

Yup, that's what I thought. It will only take me around 10-20 years, probably a change in my field and why should I stop at that, I'll also be building a colony on Mars and my personal empire on Pluto. Will you invest in this new endevour? Just $1M for a 10% stake in empire on Pluto. You provide the funds and I'll take care of the funds.

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#67 Edited by MirkoS77 (14143 posts) -
@pc_rocks said:
@MirkoS77 said:

Sure you could establish a company like Google, Amazon, etc, sometimes in the future. You think these companies didn't start out small and work within their means at the time? Apple started out in Jobs' garage, calling around to companies and begging for circuit boards. Nothing precludes a studio of such talent except the disinterest to take such initiative.

Yup, that's what I thought. It will only take me around 10-20 years, probably a change in my field and why should I stop at that, I'll also be building a colony on Mars and my personal empire on Pluto. Will you invest in this new endevour? Just $1M for a 10% stake in empire on Pluto. You provide the funds and I'll take care of the funds.

Yes, and that's why they have a big publisher like Sony behind them who holds confidence in their talents.

And you've proven my point. It's not that you can't, it's that you hold no interest to.

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#68 Posted by rzxv04 (686 posts) -

Well, GTA V is a monster. One of the most unique games I've played until now because I barely played 4. Never played the earlier GTAs.

I'm actually impressed by Ubi and Bio on how they're output of open worlds.

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#69 Posted by PC_Rocks (2316 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@MirkoS77 said:

Sure you could establish a company like Google, Amazon, etc, sometimes in the future. You think these companies didn't start out small and work within their means at the time? Apple started out in Jobs' garage, calling around to companies and begging for circuit boards. Nothing precludes a studio of such talent except the disinterest to take such initiative.

Yup, that's what I thought. It will only take me around 10-20 years, probably a change in my field and why should I stop at that, I'll also be building a colony on Mars and my personal empire on Pluto. Will you invest in this new endevour? Just $1M for a 10% stake in empire on Pluto. You provide the funds and I'll take care of the funds.

Yes, and that's why they have a big publisher like Sony behind them who holds confidence in their talents.

Doesn't seem like that because they already cancelled one of SSM project laying off half of the work force which in turn make Stig Asmussen to jump ship.

And you've proven my point. It's not that you can't, it's that you hold no interest to.

So a no! Well doesn't sound like an answer of someone that thinks it is possible.

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#70 Posted by scatteh316 (10209 posts) -
@pc_rocks said:

Well, GG also admitted in the past that they made HZD because they couldn't compete in the shooter market with games like BF and CoD.

Got a link for that?

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#71 Posted by That_Old_Guy (1237 posts) -

Slightly taken out of context.