Game Pass Growth Misses The Mark

That’s not what I said. Xbox is losing ground to PS. I didn’t say they had no growth. But if Xbox started the gen behind PS, and the PS5 is selling more and growing faster, then Xbox is losing ground. Not too hard to understand I don’t think.

"The Xbox isn't making up any ground. In fact they're losing a ton of ground..."

Interesting.🤔

Losing ground to the competition and having no growth are 2 different things… The Xbox hardware growth was positive, 166%. But the PS growth was over 280%. Meaning, Xbox had growth, but lost ground to PS. Again, not hard…

Your spinning is amazing. You went from they being third in every category (wrong), to they not gaining ANY ground, to losing "losing a ton of ground" but trying to say you are not claiming they are not growing.

Do you know what “gaining ground” means?

Xbox IS growing. Xbox as a brand is bigger than they previously were. But so is the competition. And the competitions growth is BIGGER than Xbox’s. Meaning, Xbox has not gained any ground. They haven’t closed the gap. In fact the gap is bigger. Therefore, Xbox has lost ground to the competition.

This is not hard to understand, Pedro 😀

Just to clarify, that is only concerning consoles sales.. Xbox is indeed gaining ground in monthly active users due to a combined effort across consoles, PC, and cloud..

Just wanted to clear that up..

I do, but it seems like you don't. You are trying to argue that the growth Xbox experience in hardware and services is occurring in a vacuum, in that it is growing without gaining any ground. That is illogical.

@Pedro:

I’m gonna remove the word Xbox and try to help you understand. I won’t even bring up video games

I have 10 apples.

You have 5 apples.

Everyday, I get 3 apples, but you only get 2.

Everyday, your apple collection grows bigger. But since I started with more apples, and my collection grows faster, your collection is not gaining any ground on mine. It’s losing ground. But your collection is still growing…

😆

Let make it extra simple for you to understand PS4 to Xbox One ratio is 1:0.4~. PS5 to Series is 1:0.59~. Is that clear enough for you to understand?

So Xbox is losing ground……..slower than before?

To gain ground, Xbox would have to be the first number in your ratio.

Another example: If you were chasing me, you would have to be running faster than me to gain ground. Running speed = console sales. Xbox needs to sell more than the console they’re chasing to gain ground.

I feel like I’m talking to Tormentos

Gaining ground means to just grow and become more popular or successful.

Gaining ground ON something or someone means getting closer to them while they are winning.

So we could say that Xbox is gaining ground (like every other system because gaming as a whole is constantly growing) BUT it's not gaining any ground ON Sony.

@Pedro: You're not taking into account factors such as the fact Xbox released a much cheaper version of a next gen console AND that Sony still can't keep up with the console demand. You could say that the same applies to Xbox, but not quite; the demand for the PS5 is MUCH higher. You hear it everywhere.

Then again you're pretty basic when it comes to these things... and everything else for that matter.

So, that wasn't simple enough for you understand 🤦‍♂️. Xbox Series ratio to PS5 is a smaller gap than PS4 to Xbox One. That is gaining ground. Why are you struggling with this?

@Pedro: You are not talking about the same thing he is.

I don't know I think Pedro makes sense. This time around xbox is much more competitive.

@ellos: They might be selling more than previous years, but they are not selling enough to close the gap.

Just like a race, if you want to catch the person in front of you, you gotta be faster than them.

Either way, I think Golden is talking about the division of each company.

@ellos: yeah, anyone paying any remote amount of attention knows that Xbox is way more competitive right now..

"gaining ground" is hard to gauge at this point..

Hardware sales are behind PlayStation.. True.. Software sales are behind PlayStation.. True..

But also Xbox is establishing a business model that doesn't rely on hardware sales.. Xbox is also establishing a business model that doesn't rely on software sales.. all the while, the active user base for Xbox is growing.. all the while, the YoY financials for Xbox are growing..

So maybe TC's fundamentally outdated measurement of success is fundamentally outdated.. 🤷‍♂️

*gasp*

alert Captain Obvious..

@Antwan3K: Potential isn’t a result. You can’t measure potential. Growing an install base in this business only matters if it results in more consumer spending. You’re telling me Xbox has damn near evened the playing field as far as install base is concerned with Game Pass on PC and X Cloud. Yet the content and services revenue grew by 2%… The driver of their business appears to be those boxes they’re selling. Again, numbers don’t lie. The potential isn’t matching the results. What you’re saying is not represented in the facts.

My measurement of success still holds. The numbers are the numbers. Your measurement of success is flawed because it’s not real. There are no numbers supporting your stance. PC and Cloud are having almost no effect on the Xbox financials. Meaning consumers are not responding to it. If I told you months ago that with adding PC and cloud would only see a 2% growth in content and services revenue you‘d call me crazy. Yet here we are.

Xbox is having quarterly growth because they’re selling more hardware year over year. It’s not Game Pass. It’s not X Cloud. It’s not PC. All the numbers are there. You just have to take off your green tinted, X shaped gamer glasses to see it…

@goldenelementxl: sorry but your measurement of success ultimately doesn't matter..

Again, historically, install base is the measure of success in console/system wars and Xbox is gaining ground there.. When 2nd and 3rd party deals are made, those publishers and developers aren't asking to see who had the best revenue last year.. They want to see your install base.. they want to know how far your platform reaches.. In that regard, Xbox is indeed closing the gap..

Secondly, Xbox is still doing better than ever before.. Period.. Across the board, in every category.. which is literally all anyone can ask for..

You are the ONLY PERSON on these forums that believes "revenue" is the ultimate measuring stick. And that's totally fine.. that's still your thing.. but literally no one else is combing through financial reports to find the negative spin in a clearly positive year.. The rest of system wars is concentrating on end-user metrics like hardware, game reviews, exclusives, services, features, studios, and etc.. Many areas where Xbox has not only "gained ground" but has taken the lead..

I never said revenue was the ultimate measuring stick. Actually profits are more important than revenue. But it's a very good indicator of the metrics that are most important. Popularity, brand loyalty and image, and consumer engagement. You keep saying the install base is what matters most, and that they're near even. What I'm telling you, is that using the information given, the increased install base isn't moving the needle as far as Xbox user engagement and spending are concerned.

You say both are around 100 million monthly active users. Look at the revenue for both that was just reported

Xbox - $3.7 Billion

PlayStation - $5.86 Billion

The biggest jump for Xbox was hardware sales, not subscriptions, software, or any of that. Meaning everything you've been preaching about the Xbox strategy has yet to be realized. We aren't even seeing a trend showing the strategy is beginning to work. What we are seeing is a bump in hardware sales during a launch year, in a time where gaming is bigger than ever. How the hell do you explain a 172% jump on hardware revenue but a 4% drop in content and services revenue??? With an expanded install base?!?!

We are seeing cooked Game Pass numbers from promos and hardware bundles... The reason we haven't heard an updated number in 10 months is telling... And what do you know, the promos are starting to roll out yet again. Xbox is doing this to try to grow the brand. But when it comes time to start paying for the sub, folks are dropping the service. My proof? The financials... They tell more of a story than who is bringing in the most cash...

@goldenelementxl: No.. I'm telling you that install base has always been the measurement of who winning the console/system wars.. and in that regard, Xbox is gaining ground..

also, Game Pass, PC, the cloud, Microsoft's entire strategy is a long game.. it's laughable that you are trying to make these doom and gloom conclusions on mechanisms that haven't even hit their stride yet.. We won't truly see how the cloud component plays out until casual gamers have access to cloud streaming via TV apps and low-cost streaming sticks, in addition to an actual "cloud only" subscription tier,.. We won't know the full potential of Game Pass in general until huge tentpole titles like Halo Infinite, Forza Motorsports/Horizon, Gears 6, are out in the wild alongside juggernaut IP like the next Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom, and more..

Their entire strategy could be a huge success or it could be a complete bust.. we truly won't know until the end of this generation if you're truly being honest.. so until then, I'm just enjoying the idea that Xbox is arguably giving me the best end-user experience on the market right now..

Not sure why you're so hell-bent on proving that this strategy isn't working when it's less than one year into the generation and Xbox is doing better than ever.. 🤷‍♂️ but hey, do you.. literally no one else cares..

Just look at your post above.. "b bu but teh revenue!!1!" is your battlecry to downplay any positive momentum Xbox is building.. again, everyone sees through you schtick so I'm not sure who you're trying to convince other than yourself..

That’s the difference between you and I. I am totally removing myself, my interests, my wants, my opinions, and am just looking at the information and statistics given. I want Xbox to succeed. That doesn’t mean I have to create and alternate reality in my brain where Xbox can do no wrong.

You said the install bases are now even because of PC and cloud gaming. I showed you where the consumers are putting their time and money. That’s doesn’t align with your wishes, so now we have to wait for unannounced Xbox sticks and TV apps before we can accurately analyze the Xbox strategy… Do we even know if those things are actually coming? Or is that just more Xbox fan fiction?

I thought “greatness awaits” was a PlayStation thing… I’m gonna be 40 before we see Elder Scrolls gameplay

@goldenelementxl: You clearly have no idea what's happening in the industry but you pretend like you can analyze what's happening in the industry: Xbox Experience to Be Built Into TVs and Streaming Sticks as Part of Major Off-Console Push

and in what warped universe does "enjoying the idea that Xbox is arguably giving me the best end-user experience on the market right now" equate to creating an "alternate reality in my brain where Xbox can do no wrong"?..

I'm simply enjoying the product.. I mean, are you not enjoying your Xbox Series X|S, PS5, and other purchases?..

and that perfectly illustrates the difference between me and you:

I'm looking at this from the standpoint of the end-user while you're trying to look at this as an armchair financial analyst who doesn't even know the basic components of the strategies he's trying to analyze (as illustrated above)..

Apparently, you don't realize that actual analysts know the definition of a "long-term strategy" and it indeed takes many years into the generation before conclusions can begin to be made.. meanwhile we got a System Warrior making concrete judgement calls on the entire Xbox strategy before a single tentpole Xbox Game Studios title has been released this generation.. definitely doesn't sound like someone who "wants Xbox to succeed"..

because if you did, you'd simply sit back and enjoy the fact that Xbox is doing better than ever instead of twisting yourself in pretzels trying to figure out how a Trillion dollar company is going to make money..

and as far as your "greatness awaits" comment, dude just stop.. Unless you have some magic bullet that's going to instantly make Xbox overtake PlayStation, then you need to realize that these things take time.. and having Elder Scrolls 6 (along with other juggernauts) heading to the Xbox platform exclusively is a great move no matter how long it takes.. But feel free to elaborate on what you would do differently..

oh wait, I've asked you several times what you would do differently and you have no answer.. all you're good for is screeching "b bu but teh revenue!!1!" anytime positive Xbox news is reported but when asked how you would improve the current dynamics, you magically have nothing to say.. and that right there, speaks volumes..

@Antwan3K: I know what Phil said. But where are the details? Where’s these streaming sticks? Where are the TV apps? Is this something else that we will have to wait a few years on? Time isn’t exactly a luxury for them right now. Not with the competition performing the way they are. But I get it. Thinking about these things gets you a little tight in the pants…

@goldenelementxl: funny how when it comes to Xbox cloud streaming you pretend you need all these "details" but when Netflix vaguely mentions they are launching a gaming service (with zero details), you proceed to create an entire thread on the subject to proclaim, yet again, that "Xbox is doomed"..

again, you aren't fooling anybody but yourself with this act and it's both pathetic and entertaining at this point.. so by all means, keep it up..

bottomline: Xbox is providing the better product right now and is performing better than ever before in every category that matters to the end-user.. and even in terms of "winning" System Wars, they are closing the gap on the overall active install base..

not sure what else you're looking for if you truly "want Xbox to succeed".. if only you took a minute away from constantly worrying about Sadya Nadella's and Phil Spencer's bank accounts, you may actually enjoy the superior product they're providing right now..

i mean, there's literally nothing to complain about right now and, yet again, here we are with "b bu but teh revenue!!1!".. so ultimately, i guess we're back to full-on clown shoes from you for the foreseeable.. 🤡 not surprising..

@Antwan3K: I only created that Netflix thread because you and other Lems were hyping Game Pass as the Netflix of gaming. It was funny to me.

And for the millionth time, I don’t care about anybodys pockets. The revenue numbers alone aren’t interesting to me. But they are telling a bigger story about how Xbox and Game Pass are performing in the real world. Something you don’t want to be objective about. You‘ve got your fingers in your ears, yelling “la la la, I can’t hear you” in regards to these numbers. It’s more than who is making what. The numbers are telling us how popular the systems are and what consumers are engaging with. 2% growth over the same quarter in 2020. 2%… “but teh Xbox sticks are cumming!!1!”

Hopes and dreams vs reality.

@goldenelementxl: ah, the "i was just joking" excuse.. quite sad if that's the best you could come up with.. even sadder if you actually believe anyone buys that excuse..

and you seem to have a warped sense of the "real world".. in the real world, Xbox is providing the best product possible for their customers while the same can't necessarily be said for PlayStation..

which is all any Xbox fan, or gamer in general, should care about..

In the real world, if someone asks "should i get an Xbox Series X or a PS5?", (the very definition of "Xbox vs PlayStation") i'm not going to be talking about revenue numbers.. i'm going to be talking about end-user factors..

honestly, do you actually believe I should care about revenue numbers and financial reports for a Trillion dollar company?.. i mean, do you really believe that?.. if so, you're a bigger joke than you already appear to be..

In System Wars, the topics of best hardware, best software, best services, best features, best value, and more are discussed on a daily basis.. you're literally the only person combing through financial reports.. so when you're done damage controlling with "b bu but teh revenue!!1!", please feel free to rejoin the conversations everyone else here on this forum actually care about..

@Antwan3K: I’m not saying people need to be looking at financials when deciding what console to buy. I’ve NEVER made that point. You are either ignoring what I’m saying, not comprehending what I’m saying, or a little bit of both.

If a person asks me what console to buy between the two, I straight up say Xbox. Stronger hardware and Game Pass is a money saver. The only reason to buy a PS5 is if you prefer the library or your friends and family play there.

You continue to misrepresent what I’m saying. My financials talk is literally just a measuring stick for where the consumers are going for their gaming hobby. Where they’re spending their money. And it’s a look into how well Xbox is doing at converting customers to their brand instead of the competition. That’s it. You’re just being a goofball at this point…

And the Netflix thread was 100% a jab at you and your Lem buddies. That’s an excuse? An excuse for what? You have taken this Xbox self defense to an unhealthy level

@goldenelementxl: what you don't understand is that my System Wars stance is exactly that: "Xbox is the better product right now"..

Period..

the other thing i'm saying is that you're the only person that cares about your financial report analysis.. again, do you, but just stop pretending anyone other than you gives a crap..

and again, pretty sad to claim "it was just a joke".. good thing you're quickly becoming the clown of System Wars then i guess.. 🤡

@Antwan3K: The thread title, “Netflix to become the Netflix of gaming” doesn’t sound like a joke to you?

Are we playing Back 4 Blood tonight or what?

@goldenelementxl: maybe would have been considered a joke if you didn't spend the entirety of the thread trying to legitimately justify that ideal..

Been playing alot of B4B in between Horizon: Zero Dawn.. Just about at the end of Act II on recruit, tried veteran and was struggling.. Good game but can't tonight since I'm not at home but I'll keep an eye out for you