Game installs are neccessary

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fiscope

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#1 fiscope
Member since 2006 • 2426 Posts

A lot of people hate the fact that the PS3 has mandatory installs for some games. This is all rubish, and I'll tell you why!

Modern disc drives are not fast. Not at all. This is why laoding times for many games on consoles tend to be so outrageous. PC's solve this problem by installing the game on the hard drive. It allows the game assets to be pulled much, much faster. Hence, reduced loading times.

A blu-ray disk holds alot of data, 50GB when dual layered (correct me if I'm wrong here, I might be). That is a HUGE AMOUNT of data. The catch is that the PS3's blue-ray drive is 2x speed, and that is not that fast at all. So, sony has two options. Release another PS3 with a faster drive, and a higher price, or they can do what PC's have been doing for years and years. Install data on the HDD.

Games like MGS4 have alot of assets. Alot of data must be loaded and this loading takes time. Precious time. So, MGS4 installs to the HDD at the beginning of every ACT, taking about 3 minutes or so each time. This is not a problem at all.While playing the game, the loading screens between huge areas is literaly under one second. This keeps the gameplay from feeling segmented and allows it to load up HUGE amounts of data throughout the game without equally huge load times.

So, I say this: get used to it, because installing games is the future for consoles. Disk drives will never be faster than harddrives, and in gaming, every second matters.

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crunchUK

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#2 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
:O they are?!?!?!? oh noes
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Riverwolf007

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#4 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

In that case why did we ever have to move beyond compact disc? We could have just spent some time installing on a $15 cd drive and saved ourselves a few hundred dollars to spend on games.

Format determines content? What a laugh, chalk up another victory for marketing over reality.

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6matt6

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#5 6matt6
Member since 2005 • 9726 Posts

Blowing things out of proportion FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since when is waiting 10 seconds for something to load such a problem? Installs are notneeded. Might be nice but are in no way needed.

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Krigon

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#6 Krigon
Member since 2005 • 5591 Posts

Blowing things out of proportion FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since when is waiting 10 seconds for something to load such a problem? Installs are notneeded. Might be nice but are in no way needed.

6matt6

That's 10 seconds you wasted! :o

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SpruceCaboose

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#7 SpruceCaboose
Member since 2005 • 24589 Posts
Installs are not neccessary, and they should never be.
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Dahaka-UK

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#8 Dahaka-UK
Member since 2005 • 6915 Posts
You do as if XBOX 360 loading times are really slow, no there not. There perfectly acceptable unless your really impatient. At the end of the day 5GB for every game just to boost loading speeds which you barely notice is just plain stupid. The harddrive is ment for the playstation store not some stupid gimmick. Ofcourse if it was optional like the XBOX360 installations soon to be. It would be perfectly understandable. Atleast we have a choice in the matter.
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thrones

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#9 thrones
Member since 2004 • 12178 Posts

In that case why did we ever have to move beyond compact disc? We could have just spent some time installing on a $15 cd drive and saved ourselves a few hundred dollars to spend on games.

Format determines content? What a laugh, chalk up another victory for marketing over reality.

Riverwolf007

FYI, the Blu-ray is much faster than the DVD.

Except a 2x Blu-ray drive in comparison to a 12x DVD drive.

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Riverwolf007

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#10 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

In that case why did we ever have to move beyond compact disc? We could have just spent some time installing on a $15 cd drive and saved ourselves a few hundred dollars to spend on games.

Format determines content? What a laugh, chalk up another victory for marketing over reality.

thrones

FYI, the Blu-ray is much faster than the DVD.

Except a 2x Blu-ray drive in comparison to a 12x DVD drive.

I was talking about the original compact disc not dvd. My point was if installs are 100% neccessary then we never needed to move beyond that format, anything can hold ones and zeros and be dl'd to a hdd. Even cassette tape and paper punch cards that they used in the 1940's and 50's.

Sure it may have been a stack of tapes a mile tall but really the whole format determines quality thing that I see here every day is a joke.

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fiscope

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#11 fiscope
Member since 2006 • 2426 Posts
[QUOTE="thrones"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

In that case why did we ever have to move beyond compact disc? We could have just spent some time installing on a $15 cd drive and saved ourselves a few hundred dollars to spend on games.

Format determines content? What a laugh, chalk up another victory for marketing over reality.

Riverwolf007

FYI, the Blu-ray is much faster than the DVD.

Except a 2x Blu-ray drive in comparison to a 12x DVD drive.

I was talking about the original compact disc not dvd. My point was if installs are 100% necessary then we never needed to move beyond that format, anything can hold ones and zeros and be dl'd to a hdd. Even cassette tape and paper punch cards that they used in the 1940's and 50's.

Sure it may have been a stack of tapes a mile tall but really the whole format determines quality thing that I see here every day is a joke.

You misunderstand me. Obviously, soon we will no longer use discs at all, but we are far from this point. Internet speeds are too slow for the masses, and the only way to get the games to people's consoles reliably is via a compact but efficient medium, such as disks. Should we still use disks? We could. Some PC games do. The fact is, a DVD or blu-ray disk makes it easier for the end-user. That is why we use them.
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angelkimne

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#12 angelkimne
Member since 2006 • 14037 Posts

Wow....

I mean look at all the loading screens in GTA 4......

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Riverwolf007

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#13 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"][QUOTE="thrones"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

In that case why did we ever have to move beyond compact disc? We could have just spent some time installing on a $15 cd drive and saved ourselves a few hundred dollars to spend on games.

Format determines content? What a laugh, chalk up another victory for marketing over reality.

fiscope

FYI, the Blu-ray is much faster than the DVD.

Except a 2x Blu-ray drive in comparison to a 12x DVD drive.

I was talking about the original compact disc not dvd. My point was if installs are 100% necessary then we never needed to move beyond that format, anything can hold ones and zeros and be dl'd to a hdd. Even cassette tape and paper punch cards that they used in the 1940's and 50's.

Sure it may have been a stack of tapes a mile tall but really the whole format determines quality thing that I see here every day is a joke.

You misunderstand me. Obviously, soon we will no longer use discs at all, but we are far from this point. Internet speeds are too slow for the masses, and the only way to get the games to people's consoles reliably is via a compact but efficient medium, such as disks. Should we still use disks? We could. Some PC games do. The fact is, a DVD or blu-ray disk makes it easier for the end-user. That is why we use them.

Yeah it's convenient but I guess it's a wierd subject for me since I have seen HD games on PC for years and years now and most of them just came on 4 or 5 (or more) old school compact discs. When the subject of Blu-Ray being important come up my first thought is always something like "yeah, important for Sony's profits."

Maybe I've gotten more closed minded(and/or cynical) lately I thought games moving from carts and floppies to cd was a great leap and just can't see any new digital foramt as any real progress.

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EmperorSupreme

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#14 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7687 Posts
I install every game I can. I love the option. I'd much rather have a better in game experience. Little breaks take you out of immersion of the game. To me it's silly to not use the technology available. And X360 should have installs as well. Developers want it and the games could benefit from installs as well. Long load times are common in many X360 games. Lost Odyssey battles take 10-30 seconds each to load, NG2 has to pause in the middle of the action to load data. These are just 2 examples where installs could've made a big improvement.
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Wasdie

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#15 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

Consoles shouldn't have to install squat. That is part of the way that consoles distinguish themselves from a PC. No installs to worry about. Just pop in the disk and play.

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crunchUK

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#16 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

Consoles shouldn't have to install squat. That is part of the way that consoles distinguish themselves from a PC. No installs to worry about. Just pop in the disk and play.

Wasdie

i entirely agree with this statement.

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locopatho

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#17 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 23721 Posts
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Consoles shouldn't have to install squat. That is part of the way that consoles distinguish themselves from a PC. No installs to worry about. Just pop in the disk and play.

crunchUK

i entirely agree with this statement.

Same. Seems strange how 360 games work as good or better than PS3 games without installs...

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EmperorSupreme

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#18 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7687 Posts
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Consoles shouldn't have to install squat. That is part of the way that consoles distinguish themselves from a PC. No installs to worry about. Just pop in the disk and play.

crunchUK

i entirely agree with this statement.

I don't. Consoles have harddrives included now, why not take advantage of the technology available? Consoles distinguish themselves from PC by offering a low cost all in one package. Limiting their technology and abilities just to be different is just silly.

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CubanBlunt

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#19 CubanBlunt
Member since 2005 • 2025 Posts

Blowing things out of proportion FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since when is waiting 10 seconds for something to load such a problem? Installs are notneeded. Might be nice but are in no way needed.

6matt6

Since day one, no one liked load times, now people are just use to them. Sony is trying to get away from load times or at least cut them down and people bash the PS3 for it........just dont make since.

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bez2083

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#20 bez2083
Member since 2005 • 4624 Posts
Installs are conveinent, not necessary. Faster loading times are great, but now all of a sudden slower loading times are decreasing the overall experience of a game? GTFOH. Nearly ALL of the games exalted to god-like status on this forum didn't have an install and yet they were still enjoyed by the masses. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to do installs or arguing against it, I'm saying that if you can't sit through 8 seconds of a loading screen instead of the 2 seconds an install may knock it down to then why did you even bother playing to begin with?
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Vectah_Sigma

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#21 Vectah_Sigma
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

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6matt6

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#22 6matt6
Member since 2005 • 9726 Posts

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

Vectah_Sigma

Their installs are optional though.

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ogvampire

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#23 ogvampire
Member since 2008 • 8795 Posts
[QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

6matt6

Their installs are optional though.

what he said. the problem with the ps3 installs is that they are mandatory

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Vectah_Sigma

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#24 Vectah_Sigma
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts
[QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

6matt6

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

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6matt6

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#25 6matt6
Member since 2005 • 9726 Posts
[QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

Vectah_Sigma

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

See its nice to assume things if it helps your argument.

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waynehead895

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#26 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
Have yet to install a game this gen. Why is this necessary again?
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waynehead895

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#27 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
[QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

Vectah_Sigma

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

You are assuming everyone has enough space to install games on there HDD. Which isn't a safe assumption.
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foxhound_fox

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#28 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98194 Posts
I hear that the 360's 16x DVD-9 drive is pretty fast.
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6matt6

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#29 6matt6
Member since 2005 • 9726 Posts

I hear that the 360's 16x DVD-9 drive is pretty fast.foxhound_fox

Does that have any effect on how loud the console is?

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CubanBlunt

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#30 CubanBlunt
Member since 2005 • 2025 Posts
[QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

ogvampire

Their installs are optional though.

what he said. the problem with the ps3 installs is that they are mandatory

mandatory, optional , who cares, they're both installs. If a 360 users wants to install all there games, where dose the OPTIONAL factor in when they were goin to install it anyway, for that person it is mandatory.

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Vectah_Sigma

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#31 Vectah_Sigma
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts
[QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

6matt6

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

See its nice to assume things if it helps your argument.

i'm not arguring with you. its nice to assume things isnt it

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Vectah_Sigma

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#32 Vectah_Sigma
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts
[QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

waynehead895

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

You are assuming everyone has enough space to install games on there HDD. Which isn't a safe assumption.

If they dont have enough space, then thats their beef, not mine. They should take that up with MS since MS thinks that it is a good idea.

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waynehead895

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#33 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
[QUOTE="waynehead895"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

Vectah_Sigma

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

You are assuming everyone has enough space to install games on there HDD. Which isn't a safe assumption.

If they dont have enough space, then thats their beef, not mine. They should take that up with MS since MS thinks that it is a good idea.

Well if everyone is in different situations, why assume that most if not all are goign to install games? Do you think everyone even cares about installing games?
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ogvampire

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#34 ogvampire
Member since 2008 • 8795 Posts
[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

CubanBlunt

Their installs are optional though.

what he said. the problem with the ps3 installs is that they are mandatory

mandatory, optional , who cares, they're both installs. If a 360 users wants to install all there games, where dose the OPTIONAL factor in when they were goin to install it anyway, for that person it is mandatory.

i care. i would much rather have the option of installing instead of being forced to do so...

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Vectah_Sigma

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#35 Vectah_Sigma
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts
[QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="waynehead895"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

waynehead895

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

You are assuming everyone has enough space to install games on there HDD. Which isn't a safe assumption.

If they dont have enough space, then thats their beef, not mine. They should take that up with MS since MS thinks that it is a good idea.

Well if everyone is in different situations, why assume that most if not all are goign to install games? Do you think everyone even cares about installing games?

Apparentlly MS does. What other reason would they have for adding the feature in the fall update.

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Vectah_Sigma

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#36 Vectah_Sigma
Member since 2007 • 1104 Posts
[QUOTE="CubanBlunt"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

ogvampire

Their installs are optional though.

what he said. the problem with the ps3 installs is that they are mandatory

mandatory, optional , who cares, they're both installs. If a 360 users wants to install all there games, where dose the OPTIONAL factor in when they were goin to install it anyway, for that person it is mandatory.

i care. i would much rather have the option of installing instead of being forced to do so...

LOL....why? Is it because you have a 20GB 360 hard drive?

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Senor_Kami

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#37 Senor_Kami
Member since 2008 • 8529 Posts
Ehh, I think back to PS1 and PS2 games. They kicked ass and had no installs. I look at my 360 library and all the fun games with no installs. Load times have dropped dramatically since the PS1. Plus, i'm used to them. They don't ruin the experience. My PC has to boot up and it takes like 3 minutes. That doesn't hamper my pc using experience at all.
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waynehead895

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#38 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
[QUOTE="waynehead895"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="waynehead895"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"][QUOTE="6matt6"][QUOTE="Vectah_Sigma"]

360 users are the only people who have issues with installs, I mean they bash the PS3 for it every chance they get. Now that the 360 is going to have them, now what? They are running out of things to bash the PS3 for.

Vectah_Sigma

Their installs are optional though.

optional or not, they are still installs and most...if not all....of the users will install them

You are assuming everyone has enough space to install games on there HDD. Which isn't a safe assumption.

If they dont have enough space, then thats their beef, not mine. They should take that up with MS since MS thinks that it is a good idea.

Well if everyone is in different situations, why assume that most if not all are goign to install games? Do you think everyone even cares about installing games?

Apparentlly MS does. What other reason would they have for adding the feature in the fall update.

WHAT? It isn't appearant that MS assumes everyone is using it since they stated it was optional. Also they are still selling the Core and Arcade models with out the HDD. They added an "optional feature" with the assumption that most or everyone is gonna use it? Why make it optional in the first place then?
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yoshi_64

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#39 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts

Maybe the Blu-Ray disc drive is too slow, but many 360 games are speedy and load quick. The time to wait is hardly something to gripe about in lots of games..

And to be said, Nintendo seems to be one of the best out there in terms of load times. They either hide it well (MP games, and the like) have no load times whatsoever (lots of their other games) are super quick, or just load it up front and you get hardly any waits (Brawl).

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ogvampire

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#40 ogvampire
Member since 2008 • 8795 Posts

Vectah_Sigma

i care. i would much rather have the option of installing instead of being forced to do so...

LOL....why? Is it because you have a 20GB 360 hard drive?

yes. although i have had it for over a year, i still have 10 gigs left, so storage is not the issue.

the 360 without installation is almost as fast as the ps3 with installation, so its never been a problem. having the option to either install or not is a plus anyway

sometimes i just want to play an old game i havent played in a while, i dont want to have to re-install the game just to play for a few minutes. thats annoying

when i wanted to show my friend a cutscene from the Act 1 of MGS4 (im in act 4), it prompted me for installation, i just said nevermind

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GundamGuy0

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#41 GundamGuy0
Member since 2003 • 10970 Posts

A lot of people hate the fact that the PS3 has mandatory installs for some games. This is all rubish, and I'll tell you why!

Modern disc drives are not fast. Not at all. This is why laoding times for many games on consoles tend to be so outrageous. PC's solve this problem by installing the game on the hard drive. It allows the game assets to be pulled much, much faster. Hence, reduced loading times.

A blu-ray disk holds alot of data, 50GB when dual layered (correct me if I'm wrong here, I might be). That is a HUGE AMOUNT of data. The catch is that the PS3's blue-ray drive is 2x speed, and that is not that fast at all. So, sony has two options. Release another PS3 with a faster drive, and a higher price, or they can do what PC's have been doing for years and years. Install data on the HDD.

Games like MGS4 have alot of assets. Alot of data must be loaded and this loading takes time. Precious time. So, MGS4 installs to the HDD at the beginning of every ACT, taking about 3 minutes or so each time. This is not a problem at all.While playing the game, the loading screens between huge areas is literaly under one second. This keeps the gameplay from feeling segmented and allows it to load up HUGE amounts of data throughout the game without equally huge load times.

So, I say this: get used to it, because installing games is the future for consoles. Disk drives will never be faster than harddrives, and in gaming, every second matters.

fiscope

2x blu-ray drives are faster then a 2x CD or 2x DVD drive. It can load more data per second then any console before it, their are games with out installs that are just as massive as MGS4, installs just make it easyer on the developers.

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waynehead895

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#42 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts

Maybe the Blu-Ray disc drive is too slow, but many 360 games are speedy and load quick. The time to wait is hardly something to gripe about in lots of games..

And to be said, Nintendo seems to be one of the best out there in terms of load times. They either hide it well (MP games, and the like) have no load times whatsoever (lots of their other games) are super quick, or just load it up front and you get hardly any waits (Brawl).

yoshi_64
I can't remember ever seeing a game load on the GC.
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EmperorSupreme

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#43 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7687 Posts

And to be said, Nintendo seems to be one of the best out there in terms of load times. They either hide it well (MP games, and the like) have no load times whatsoever (lots of their other games) are super quick, or just load it up front and you get hardly any waits (Brawl).

yoshi_64

Nintendo is the best for load times but it's not because of good programming or anything like that it's just the laws of computing. Less data = less loading. Wii games just aren't that demanding by todays computing standards.

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#44 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

A lot of people hate the fact that the PS3 has mandatory installs for some games. This is all rubish, and I'll tell you why!

Modern disc drives are not fast. Not at all. This is why laoding times for many games on consoles tend to be so outrageous. PC's solve this problem by installing the game on the hard drive. It allows the game assets to be pulled much, much faster. Hence, reduced loading times.

A blu-ray disk holds alot of data, 50GB when dual layered (correct me if I'm wrong here, I might be). That is a HUGE AMOUNT of data. The catch is that the PS3's blue-ray drive is 2x speed, and that is not that fast at all. So, sony has two options. Release another PS3 with a faster drive, and a higher price, or they can do what PC's have been doing for years and years. Install data on the HDD.

Games like MGS4 have alot of assets. Alot of data must be loaded and this loading takes time. Precious time. So, MGS4 installs to the HDD at the beginning of every ACT, taking about 3 minutes or so each time. This is not a problem at all.While playing the game, the loading screens between huge areas is literaly under one second. This keeps the gameplay from feeling segmented and allows it to load up HUGE amounts of data throughout the game without equally huge load times.

So, I say this: get used to it, because installing games is the future for consoles. Disk drives will never be faster than harddrives, and in gaming, every second matters.

fiscope

i feel if a game needs to be installed whats the point of a console? that is pc gaming and aside from games purchased from the arcades/ psn/ VC nuthing should be installed