Fan Negativity Over Mass Effect 3 Endings Caused Bioware Heads To Quit

Ex-BioWare co-founder and Baldur's Gate developer, Trent Oster, believes thenegative fan reaction to Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars: The Old Republic couldhave attributed to Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk's decision to leave BioWare andthe games industry.

Speaking to NowGamer, Oster explained that on hislast meeting with Zeschuk, the developer was visibly exhausted.

"Thelast time I met up with [Greg], I felt his exhaustion," explained Oster."Punch out, eject, get the hell out", was my suggestions to him and it hit
closer to the mark than I had realised. I also think the Mass Effect 3 fanreaction and the Old Republic fans negativity was just toomuch."

"You have to love games and you put your heart into them tocreate them. To have the fans creating petitions against the work is pretty hardto take, especially when you've spent the last few years crunching overtime totry and ship a game.It can be hard to shut off the overwhelming negativitythe internet spews forth, especially when it has your name or the name of yourcompany in it."

Though Oster wasn't surprised when Zeschuk announcedhis retirement from the industry, when Muzyka did the same it did come as ashock.

"Ray surprised me," explained Oster. "I had him pegged as an EAlifer. My thought was the Ray agenda was to first usurp Frank Gibeau and thenlater John Riccotello as CEO."

"I'm sure the internal culture at EAhad pinned the Old Republic conversion to free to play as a failure and hungthat completely on Ray, so that would have hurt his upward climb. But, Ifigured he would fight harder. EA upper management must have been even worsethan I thought."NeoGAF

SOURCE

Okay, I find this sad. I don't know about you guys, and I don't care how you feel about Mass Effect 3's ending, or The Old Republic's failure, but these two guys created a legenedary company, and they created some of the greatest games of all time. Even people who have distaste for modern Bioware have to recognize the extent of their contributions to gaming. The fact that internet vitriol over the ending oftheirstory caused them to leave the company they built is just sad, and makes me even more ashamed and resentful towards the fan reaction at Mass Effect 3's ending.

So things got a little hairy and they bailed? not very professional of them. It's like they ran off crying that they got bullied.

People overreacted.freedomfreak

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

I never got the negativity. Seemed like a Matrix ending to me. No matter what you choose, the cycle goes on. Guess some autism patients couldn't handle some good fiction and started writing chain letters out of anger. PS360Wii4eva

Not only is that ignorant and insulting but the mass effect story isn't exactly ground breaking science fiction, sure not many games do it better but that's not saying much

acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.seanmcloughlin

Yeah, saw it on GAF earlier today, but I don't know, I'm not buying it...

Nowdays, big-name devs should be rather accustomed to Internet outlashes, there'll always be a group of whiners who complain just for the sake of complaining, never pleased with anything.

Maybe this was a part of the reason for them quitting, but I honestly wouldn't say it's the main reason...

So things got a little hairy and they bailed? not very professional of them. It's like they ran off crying that they got bullied.

seanmcloughlin

That's crazy. I seriously doubt any video game ending could possibly be that bad anyways.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.seanmcloughlin

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

Ex-BioWare co-founder and Baldur's Gate developer, Trent Oster,BELIEVES thenegative fan reaction to Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars: The Old Republic couldhave attributed to Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk's decision to leave BioWare andthe games industry.

NeoGAF

Only speculations, though i wouldn't be surprised if that was a major reason.

[QUOTE="PS360Wii4eva"]I never got the negativity. Seemed like a Matrix ending to me. No matter what you choose, the cycle goes on. Guess some autism patients couldn't handle some good fiction and started writing chain letters out of anger. seanmcloughlin

Not only is that ignorant and insulting but the mass effect story isn't exactly ground breaking science fiction, sure not many games do it better but that's not saying much

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.seanmcloughlin

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

Exactly!

Though as pointed out, they didn't re-write the game, just expanded the ending without any signifficant changes to the original idea...

Actually, let's better not go there, don't want to draw texasgoldrush here! :P

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

So things got a little hairy and they bailed? not very professional of them. It's like they ran off crying that they got bullied.

charizard1605

Of course it does, it gets to everyone in life one time or anotherand EA probably get to a lot more comapnies too. but as a company founder you don't bail out or get out of dodge. You act like a professional and get on with it. This seems like they tooke the easy way out and just left everyone in the lurch.

If they don't want backlash then create some better products.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.Stringerboy

Nope it was completely justified, especially since they lied to us on multiple occassions regarding the endings.

You see, when you've invested over 200 hours into a rich, believable universe with characters that you actually care about. You tend to want to know what happens to that universe and the characters you've grown to know and love.

Could you imagine Kojima ending MGS4 the same as ME3?

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.Rocker6

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

Exactly!

Though as pointed out, they didn't re-write the game, just expanded the ending without any signifficant changes to the original idea...

Actually, let's better not go there, don't want to draw texasgoldrush here! :P

Yeah that's bad worthing on my part, you knew what I meant anyway. They still caved to consumer demands.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.Stringerboy

Nope it was completely justified, especially since they lied to us on multiple occassions regarding the endings.

You see, when you've invested over 200 hours into a rich, believable universe with characters that you actually care about. You tend to want to know what happens to that universe and the characters you've grown to know and love.

Could you imagine Kojima ending MGS4 the same as ME3?

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.freedomfreak

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

People on the internet tend to do that. In person they would have been far less vocal

It's sad to see such a fantastic ending being seen so negatively, even sadder that that might have had this kind of repecussions.

It's sad to see such a fantastic ending being seen so negatively, even sadder that that might have had this kind of repecussions.

padaporra

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.Stringerboy

Nope it was completely justified, especially since they lied to us on multiple occassions regarding the endings.

You see, when you've invested over 200 hours into a rich, believable universe with characters that you actually care about. You tend to want to know what happens to that universe and the characters you've grown to know and love.

Could you imagine Kojima ending MGS4 the same as ME3?

More fool you to believe what a game dev tells you anyway. Crytek also promised Crysis 2 would be a great sequel and look what happened there. Don't be so trusting of what a dev says, it's mostly PR at times

If you got 200 rich believable hours in a franchise then 15 mins at the end shouldn't have bothered you so much. Sure the endings sucked and I didn't like them, but I enjoyed the journey a LOT leading up tot hem and they didn't really matter in the grand scheme.

And all of MGS4 was tripe not just the end, yet I still enjoyed that game and it didn't suddenly ruin all the previous MGS games

I think more reasonable explanation is that when EA acquired BioWare Ray and Greg made a contract with EA to stay in the company for certain amount of years. It is too big coincidence that exactly after 5 years, they both quit. Contracts like that are normal during company acquisitions.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"][QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

seanmcloughlin

People on the internet tend to do that. In person they would have been far less vocal

Indeed... anonimity does wonders!

It's sad to see such a fantastic ending being seen so negatively, even sadder that that might have had this kind of repecussions.

padaporra

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"] I know. I don't really care that they took off though. I just thought people overreacted. Like they do with everything.Rocker6

People on the internet tend to do that. In person they would have been far less vocal

Indeed... anonimity does wonders!

SW is ample proof of that

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"][QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Of course they did. People on the internet always do, it's how it works. But these guys who headed a company couldn't handle it properly and acved to idiot demands by re-writing the game and then bailed out of the company. If every head of department were to quit over internet backlash there would be a LOT of people quitting.

seanmcloughlin

People on the internet tend to do that. In person they would have been far less vocal

Casey should get fired for his Artistic Intergrety of "Speculations".

Is this what you wanted out of Mass Effect Casey?

Should have stuck with the Dark Energy Plot.

[QUOTE="Stringerboy"]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]People overreacted.seanmcloughlin

Nope it was completely justified, especially since they lied to us on multiple occassions regarding the endings.

You see, when you've invested over 200 hours into a rich, believable universe with characters that you actually care about. You tend to want to know what happens to that universe and the characters you've grown to know and love.

Could you imagine Kojima ending MGS4 the same as ME3?

More fool you to believe what a game dev tells you anyway. Crytek also promised Crysis 2 would be a great sequel and look what happened there. Don't be so trusting of what a dev says, it's mostly PR at times

If you got 200 rich believable hours in a franchise then 15 mins at the end shouldn't have bothered you so much. Sure the endings sucked and I didn't like them, but I enjoyed the journey a LOT leading up tot hem and they didn't really matter in the grand scheme.

And all of MGS4 was tripe not just the end, yet I still enjoyed that game and it didn't suddenly ruin all the previous MGS games

A lot of gamers are entitled cry babies.

Things evolve and they refuse to accept that.

Good riddance.
Simply put true gamers wouldn't have made such an ending we sat through 3 games where we were told the choices we made would make a difference...they didn't in the end we got cookie cutter choices that were almost completely the same even the ""extended ending"" change this...and why am I right in that assertition?

Because if the endings had been what were promised throughout the series we wouldn't have had the massive threads on nearly every forum debating the endings, what they meant and their merit.
The endings were either s** or so cryptic as to be useless, I paid 180 dollars+ for the series and its dlc I didn't expect to get a s*** ending and I've not even played ME3 yet I held off when I started hearing about the endings hoping that the extended ending would help...all it did was take the 5% difference between the endings to 6%.

So yeah good riddance I don't want non gamers making video games its one of the reasons I don't buy EA,Activision, or capcom games anymore.

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

It's sad to see such a fantastic ending being seen so negatively, even sadder that that might have had this kind of repecussions.

PannicAtack

Casey should get fired for his Artistic Intergrety of "Speculations".

Is this what you wanted out of Mass Effect Casey?

Should have stuck with the Dark Energy Plot.

LegatoSkyheart

What's this about Dark Energy, got a link?

Just curious, heard it refereneced a few times...

Good riddance.
Simply put true gamers wouldn't have made such an ending we sat through 3 games where we were told the choices we made would make a difference...they didn't in the end we got cookie cutter choices that were almost completely the same even the ""extended ending"" change this...and why am I right in that assertition?

Because if the endings had been what were promised throughout the series we wouldn't have had the massive threads on nearly every forum debating the endings, what they meant and their merit.
The endings were either s** or so cryptic as to be useless, I paid 180 dollars+ for the series and its dlc I didn't expect to get a s*** ending and I've not even played ME3 yet I held off when I started hearing about the endings hoping that the extended ending would help...all it did was take the 5% difference between the endings to 6%.

So yeah good riddance I don't want non gamers making video games its one of the reasons I don't buy EA,Activision, or capcom games anymore.

WilliamRLBaker

Maybe this is just a good excuse to get away from EA without making them look like the bad guys.

More fool you to believe what a game dev tells you anyway. Crytek also promised Crysis 2 would be a great sequel and look what happened there. Don't be so trusting of what a dev says, it's mostly PR at times

If you got 200 rich believable hours in a franchise then 15 mins at the end shouldn't have bothered you so much. Sure the endings sucked and I didn't like them, but I enjoyed the journey a LOT leading up tot hem and they didn't really matter in the grand scheme.

And all of MGS4 was tripe not just the end, yet I still enjoyed that game and it didn't suddenly ruin all the previous MGS games

seanmcloughlin

Mass Effect is an extremely different case since the Game isn't JUST 1 singlular game.

It's a Game that spans over 3 games.

Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3 may seem to be 3 seperate titles, it's actually 1 Game put into 3 parts. (it's a 3 disc game for PC and PS3 [or 2 for PS3 until the collection comes out] and 5 discs for the 360.)

Metal Gear Solid franchise is seperate, Crysis is seperate. Mass Effect? no your Data Carries over, your Adventure continues through each title and with each title comes with choices and each and every one of those choices effect the outcome of the entire game.

The Ending should have been the MOST crucial since there are many different outcomes to be made with all of the choices being made during the course of the game.

Instead Bioware thought it would be okay to make 1 Static Ending that pretty much told you no matter what the heck you did, all roads lead to one thing, one ending, one outcome.

There was nothing that came out of the original ending that told you that what you did changed anything.

Square's Chrono games had more elaborate and meaningful endings than Mass Effect did and they came out almost 20 years ago.

Good riddance.
Simply put true gamers wouldn't have made such an ending we sat through 3 games where we were told the choices we made would make a difference...they didn't in the end we got cookie cutter choices that were almost completely the same even the ""extended ending"" change this...and why am I right in that assertition?

Because if the endings had been what were promised throughout the series we wouldn't have had the massive threads on nearly every forum debating the endings, what they meant and their merit.
The endings were either s** or so cryptic as to be useless, I paid 180 dollars+ for the series and its dlc I didn't expect to get a s*** ending and I've not even played ME3 yet I held off when I started hearing about the endings hoping that the extended ending would help...all it did was take the 5% difference between the endings to 6%.

So yeah good riddance I don't want non gamers making video games its one of the reasons I don't buy EA,Activision, or capcom games anymore.

WilliamRLBaker

Again, You were stupid to believe them. And ME's choices never really mattered a whole lot throught the series. they changes one small aspect here and there but in the end something always came to change it back or fill it back in. Like the deaths of people, they either didn't matter oustide of a few "I miss this person" conversations or someone else came and replaced them like Wrex and Wreav. It was all terribly moot in the end.

Also if you enjoyed the games a lot right up until that ending then you have no cause for whining. You managed to enjoy a full series of 90+ hours give or take and all you cry babies say the trilogy was ruined by the last 15 mins?

You know what Bioware's problem was? They talk too damn much. Even Kevin van ord said that Bioware talk to much and overhype their own stuff more than gamers even have to. So they dig their own graves most of the time

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

Casey should get fired for his Artistic Intergrety of "Speculations".

Is this what you wanted out of Mass Effect Casey?

Should have stuck with the Dark Energy Plot.

Rocker6

What's this about Dark Energy, got a link?

Just curious, heard it refereneced a few times...

feast your eyes on the original (and what should have been) ending of Mass Effect.

it makes complete sense and fits with the past 2 games and for the most part 3 except the ending.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="padaporra"]

It's sad to see such a fantastic ending being seen so negatively, even sadder that that might have had this kind of repecussions.

padaporra

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="Stringerboy"]

Nope it was completely justified, especially since they lied to us on multiple occassions regarding the endings.

You see, when you've invested over 200 hours into a rich, believable universe with characters that you actually care about. You tend to want to know what happens to that universe and the characters you've grown to know and love.

Could you imagine Kojima ending MGS4 the same as ME3?

Stringerboy

I don't think you understand how bad the ending is.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

More fool you to believe what a game dev tells you anyway. Crytek also promised Crysis 2 would be a great sequel and look what happened there. Don't be so trusting of what a dev says, it's mostly PR at times

If you got 200 rich believable hours in a franchise then 15 mins at the end shouldn't have bothered you so much. Sure the endings sucked and I didn't like them, but I enjoyed the journey a LOT leading up tot hem and they didn't really matter in the grand scheme.

And all of MGS4 was tripe not just the end, yet I still enjoyed that game and it didn't suddenly ruin all the previous MGS games

LegatoSkyheart

Mass Effect is an extremely different case since the Game isn't JUST 1 singlular game.

It's a Game that spans over 3 games.

Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3 may seem to be 3 seperate titles, it's actually 1 Game put into 3 parts. (it's a 3 disc game for PC and PS3 [or 2 for PS3 until the collection comes out] and 5 discs for the 360.)

Metal Gear Solid franchise is seperate, Crysis is seperate. Mass Effect? no your Data Carries over, your Adventure continues through each title and with each title comes with choices and each and every one of those choices effect the outcome of the entire game.

The Ending should have been the MOST crucial since there are many different outcomes to be made with all of the choices being made during the course of the game.

Instead Bioware thought it would be okay to make 1 Static Ending that pretty much told you no matter what the heck you did, all roads lead to one thing, one ending, one outcome.

There was nothing that came out of the original ending that told you that what you did changed anything.

Square's Chrono games had more elaborate and meaningful endings than Mass Effect did and they came out almost 20 years ago.

I see your point but it shouldn't matter. You enjoyed 3 games worth of content that was all relatively good and worthwhile and I enjoyed a good 85% of the trilogy before the ending. So when the ending came, sure it sucked, but I was happy the journey came to an end and I had fond memories. I didn't suddenly think "nah the whole franchise is ruined fvck that"

I mean take LOST for example. I enjoyed most of that show and it had a dreadful ending to it. But didn't care all that much, cos the good parts were still there.

Whenever you have something like this it's always gonna end dissapointingly because everyone has a different idea for the end

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

Casey should get fired for his Artistic Intergrety of "Speculations".

Is this what you wanted out of Mass Effect Casey?

Should have stuck with the Dark Energy Plot.

LegatoSkyheart

What's this about Dark Energy, got a link?

Just curious, heard it refereneced a few times...

feast your eyes on the original (and what should have been) ending of Mass Effect.

it makes complete sense and fits with the past 2 games and for the most part 3 except the ending.

If you can't take criticism, don't attempt to be artistic in any way. Because you will be criticized, sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly.

As far as the criticism goes, they largely deserved it. The Old Republic had no end-game and thus no way to keep subscribers, Dragon Age II was an abortion of a game, and Mass Effect 3's finale was probably the worst ending for a major mainstream series in the history of this medium.

They absolutely deserved to be called on those things. I don't feel sorry for them if they can't take criticism. Many other developerss face much harsher criticism all of the time and you don't see their founders abandoning ship.

So things got a little hairy and they bailed? not very professional of them. It's like they ran off crying that they got bullied.

seanmcloughlin