Enough with the SSBB depth doubt

Everyone who has ever called SSB shallow, please read this. It is a list, in alphabetical order, of the various techniques and moves one can employ in SSB. Anyone who reads (and understands!) this and still calls it shallow needs to have their heads checked.

I did not write this, all the credit goes to the thread author.

Link.

Please do not post in this thread bashing SSB's depth without reading at least some of this first.

This will do nothing.

Kudos for the effort though, Super Smash Bros. can be incredibly deep and that's all there is to it.

The game is only shallow to people who want to play as over mcho karater/boxer guys with huge muscles over sexy school girlsMiles0T0Prower

I can understand the sexy school girl fetishes, but brawl has as much depth as any fighting game.

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

Jaysonguy

No they aren't, smash is more deep and creative, alot of things are done off the fly, if you press the move stick too hard you may mess up your combo and have to improvise a new strategy.

[QUOTE="Miles0T0Prower"]The game is only shallow to people who want to play as over mcho karater/boxer guys with huge muscles over sexy school girlsTalesofRaGnArOk

I can understand the sexy school girl fetishes, but brawl has as much depth as any fighting game.

Melee had "depth", yes im completely aware of cancels but id had to disagree when you say it has as much depth as say something like Third Strike. Lets not fumble into an arguement why otherwise its going to get ugly just like the other thousand posts about Third Strike vs Melee.

Is canceling confirmed for Brawl btw?

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

Marth6781

No they aren't, smash is more deep and creative, alot of things are done off the fly, if you press the move stick too hard you may mess up your combo and have to improvise a new strategy.

You missed my point

I'm not talking about the attacker I'm talking about the attackee

The reactions are all the same, who cares if you have 40 moves if 20 of them make the character react the same way?

It's a simple beat'em up. The junk food of gaming.

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

[QUOTE="Miles0T0Prower"]The game is only shallow to people who want to play as over mcho karater/boxer guys with huge muscles over sexy school girlsHaee

I can understand the sexy school girl fetishes, but brawl has as much depth as any fighting game.

Melee had "depth", yes im completely aware of cancels but id had to disagree when you say it has as much depth as say something like Third Strike. Lets not fumble into an arguement why otherwise its going to get ugly just like the other thousand posts about Third Strike vs Melee.

Is canceling confirmed for Brawl btw?

Unfortunately it's been with removed along with wavedashing. A Israeli pro Ssbm player posted his impressions of the demo in Japan on smash boards.

[QUOTE="Marth6781"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

Jaysonguy

No they aren't, smash is more deep and creative, alot of things are done off the fly, if you press the move stick too hard you may mess up your combo and have to improvise a new strategy.

You missed my point

I'm not talking about the attacker I'm talking about the attackee

The reactions are all the same, who cares if you have 40 moves if 20 of them make the character react the same way?

It's a simple beat'em up. The junk food of gaming.

LOL! he so wishes he could have a wii and ssbb what a fanboy

[QUOTE="Haee"][QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

[QUOTE="Miles0T0Prower"]The game is only shallow to people who want to play as over mcho karater/boxer guys with huge muscles over sexy school girlsStabby2486

I can understand the sexy school girl fetishes, but brawl has as much depth as any fighting game.

Melee had "depth", yes im completely aware of cancels but id had to disagree when you say it has as much depth as say something like Third Strike. Lets not fumble into an arguement why otherwise its going to get ugly just like the other thousand posts about Third Strike vs Melee.

Is canceling confirmed for Brawl btw?

Unfortunately it's been with removed along with wavedashing. A Israeli pro Ssbm player posted his impressions of the demo in Japan on smash boards.

I question if Brawl has any potential making it to the competitive scene now.

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="Haee"][QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

[QUOTE="Miles0T0Prower"]The game is only shallow to people who want to play as over mcho karater/boxer guys with huge muscles over sexy school girlsHaee

I can understand the sexy school girl fetishes, but brawl has as much depth as any fighting game.

Melee had "depth", yes im completely aware of cancels but id had to disagree when you say it has as much depth as say something like Third Strike. Lets not fumble into an arguement why otherwise its going to get ugly just like the other thousand posts about Third Strike vs Melee.

Is canceling confirmed for Brawl btw?

Unfortunately it's been with removed along with wavedashing. A Israeli pro Ssbm player posted his impressions of the demo in Japan on smash boards.

I question if Brawl has any potential making it to the competitive scene now.

That's only one form of canceling. Jump-canceling is still in, edge canceling is still in, and I'm sure other cancels will be discovered.

Also, who cares about L-canceling when it is something that every competitive player could do with no problem.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Marth6781"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

skulper34

No they aren't, smash is more deep and creative, alot of things are done off the fly, if you press the move stick too hard you may mess up your combo and have to improvise a new strategy.

You missed my point

I'm not talking about the attacker I'm talking about the attackee

The reactions are all the same, who cares if you have 40 moves if 20 of them make the character react the same way?

It's a simple beat'em up. The junk food of gaming.

LOL! he so wishes he could have a wii and ssbb what a fanboy

[QUOTE="Marth6781"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

Jaysonguy

No they aren't, smash is more deep and creative, alot of things are done off the fly, if you press the move stick too hard you may mess up your combo and have to improvise a new strategy.

You missed my point

I'm not talking about the attacker I'm talking about the attackee

The reactions are all the same, who cares if you have 40 moves if 20 of them make the character react the same way?

It's a simple beat'em up. The junk food of gaming.

the reactions may sometimes be the same, but the number of frames it takes to preform and recover from the different attacks are different. different situations call for different attacks.

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="Haee"][QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

[QUOTE="Miles0T0Prower"]The game is only shallow to people who want to play as over mcho karater/boxer guys with huge muscles over sexy school girlsHaee

I can understand the sexy school girl fetishes, but brawl has as much depth as any fighting game.

Melee had "depth", yes im completely aware of cancels but id had to disagree when you say it has as much depth as say something like Third Strike. Lets not fumble into an arguement why otherwise its going to get ugly just like the other thousand posts about Third Strike vs Melee.

Is canceling confirmed for Brawl btw?

Unfortunately it's been with removed along with wavedashing. A Israeli pro Ssbm player posted his impressions of the demo in Japan on smash boards.

I question if Brawl has any potential making it to the competitive scene now.

It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.

[QUOTE="Haee"]I question if Brawl has any potential making it to the competitive scene now.

NintendoAddict7

That's only one form of canceling. Jump-canceling is still in, edge canceling is still in, and I'm sure other cancels will be discovered.

Also, who cares about L-canceling when it is something that every competitive player could do with no problem.

Oh my bad, I thought that canceling in general has been ripped. I retract my previous statement.

Highway potholes have more depth than SSBB.

SSBB is all eye candy and button mashing. If you feel SSBB is as deep as Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Soul Caliber - get your head checked.

It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.Marth6781

Please explain how wave-dashing is useless by any half decent player.

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.Haee

Please explain how wave-dashing is useless by any half decent player.

Highway potholes have more depth than SSBB.

SSBB is all eye candy and button mashing. If you feel SSBB is as deep as Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Soul Caliber - get your head checked.

Demetri_OS

Have you played all those games at a tournament level? No. Your statement has no credibility.

You already lost al credibility by saying it's a button masher. If you mash buttons in SSB you will just fall off the stage and die.

[QUOTE="Haee"]

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.Notsogr8one

Please explain how wave-dashing is useless by any half decent player.

As I see it, the use of wavedashing is a quick and flexible use which in a result gives your character movement superiority. I can look at L-Canceling and crouch canceling the same way.

[QUOTE="Notsogr8one"][QUOTE="Haee"]

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.Haee

Please explain how wave-dashing is useless by any half decent player.

As I see it, the use of wavedashing is a quick and flexible use which in a result gives your character movement superiority. I can look at L-Canceling and crouch canceling the same way.

its hard to explain, but if you play me you'll find out.

Crouch-canceling is more of a countering technique used to punish poor spacing and poor decisions.

[QUOTE="Haee"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"][QUOTE="Haee"]

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.Marth6781

Please explain how wave-dashing is useless by any half decent player.

As I see it, the use of wavedashing is a quick and flexible use which in a result gives your character movement superiority. I can look at L-Canceling and crouch canceling the same way.

its hard to explain, but if you play me you'll find out.

Where you live!?!? :P

Highway potholes have more depth than SSBB.

SSBB is all eye candy and button mashing. If you feel SSBB is as deep as Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Soul Caliber - get your head checked.

Demetri_OS

Those closest those games have to complexity is trying to put in massive combos faster than your opponent. The most depth those games have is using fast moves, and then using a powerful move when you have the time. The list of moves that the T.C. linked to were moves that any character could do, and all involved positioning and moving. The fact that the characters all have wildly different attacks, with identical inputs, puts the focus on timing and positioning, instead of simply memorizing all the big combos. The SSB series is useless as a button masher, because unlike conventional fighting games, you aren't forced into close proximity.

[QUOTE="Marth6781"][QUOTE="Haee"][QUOTE="Notsogr8one"][QUOTE="Haee"]

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]It will, contrary to belief a half decent player can make wavedashing useless, its a useless technique that isnt all that effective.Haee

Please explain how wave-dashing is useless by any half decent player.

As I see it, the use of wavedashing is a quick and flexible use which in a result gives your character movement superiority. I can look at L-Canceling and crouch canceling the same way.

its hard to explain, but if you play me you'll find out.

Where you live!?!? :P

georgia(UsA), we can just play brawl online.

[QUOTE="Marth6781"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The problem doesn't lie with the move list it lies in the reactions to those moves.

The game doesn't veer from the "hard hit" "light hit" reactions for certain moves.

There's no way Smash Bros is even close to a fighter like Virtua Fighter because all the reactions are the same for a bunch of different attacks.

Jaysonguy

No they aren't, smash is more deep and creative, alot of things are done off the fly, if you press the move stick too hard you may mess up your combo and have to improvise a new strategy.

You missed my point

I'm not talking about the attacker I'm talking about the attackee

The reactions are all the same, who cares if you have 40 moves if 20 of them make the character react the same way?

It's a simple beat'em up. The junk food of gaming.

Highway potholes have more depth than SSBB.

SSBB is all eye candy and button mashing. If you feel SSBB is as deep as Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Soul Caliber - get your head checked.

Demetri_OS

[QUOTE="Demetri_OS"]

Highway potholes have more depth than SSBB.

SSBB is all eye candy and button mashing. If you feel SSBB is as deep as Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Soul Caliber - get your head checked.

Tylendal

Those closest those games have to complexity is trying to put in massive combos faster than your opponent. The most depth those games have is using fast moves, and then using a powerful move when you have the time. The list of moves that the T.C. linked to were moves that any character could do, and all involved positioning and moving. The fact that the characters all have wildly different attacks, with identical inputs, puts the focus on timing and positioning, instead of simply memorizing all the big combos. The SSB series is useless as a button masher, because unlike conventional fighting games, you aren't forced into close proximity.

You must not play many modern fighters, games like Soul Calibur & Virtua Fighter hardly ever rely on long combo strings. Each game is unique and has it's own flow.

It would be foolish to say that the SSB series is a button masher or doesn't have any depth but if you're talking about complexity almost every other fighter kills SSB. We're talking about 70+ unique moves per character on many games.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Demetri_OS"]

Highway potholes have more depth than SSBB.

SSBB is all eye candy and button mashing. If you feel SSBB is as deep as Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Soul Caliber - get your head checked.

sts9kid

Those closest those games have to complexity is trying to put in massive combos faster than your opponent. The most depth those games have is using fast moves, and then using a powerful move when you have the time. The list of moves that the T.C. linked to were moves that any character could do, and all involved positioning and moving. The fact that the characters all have wildly different attacks, with identical inputs, puts the focus on timing and positioning, instead of simply memorizing all the big combos. The SSB series is useless as a button masher, because unlike conventional fighting games, you aren't forced into close proximity.

You must not play many modern fighters, games like Soul Calibur & Virtua Fighter hardly ever rely on long combo strings. Each game is unique and has it's own flow.

It would be foolish to say that the SSB series is a button masher or doesn't have any depth but if you're talking about complexity almost every other fighter kills SSB. We're talking about 70+ unique moves per character on many games.

I happen to own Soul Calibur II. And I never said that they were about memorizing combos (well I did sort of say it), I said that the emphasis was on balancing the speed and power of the moves that you are using.

The amount of moves each character has is probably the worst measure of complexity. What's important is how the game allows you, encourages you, or inhibits you from using the moves at your disposal, and that is a point where Brawl is very strong.

I like the Soul Calibur series, but a lot of the time, it feels like a button mashing game. It's just that you can't get very far away from your fighter. In Melee, you can roll away from them easily, and pull together awesome moves from afar.

Also, it's a great party game for four people. The stages are huge, there are many modes, and the items make the game that much more interesting.