Elden Ring loses well over 90% of its player base.

@Maroxad: They need to copy more of Zelda and have to were only your weapons and armor change your character stats. I hate having to have like 4 different save files to enjoy different builds. Give us freedom.

I usually hate responding to your walls full of nitpicking, but i'll close my eyes and do it once, Mr Polical Gamer.

Respecs should be infinite or farmable from endgame enemies. This is how it should be, and i don't understand why its limited. We're not playing a video game from 2003. End of the story.

I said above that i'll respond to your wall, but i have no flying f ideas wtf you're even talking about the attributes merging. An ultra gs should scale with str, not dex. A Katana should scale with dex, and not str. Their build system is perfectly fine as is, and as soon as sleep, madness, forst and bleed are nerfed, this game has a massive diversity of builds that you can create. Your merging suggestion is stupid, thanks god you're not working for Fromsoft.

Are you aware of how Katanas worked irl? They were NOT what you would associate with Dex weapons. Strength means you are able to apply more force (newtons) into a blow which translates to more damage. Dex usually translates to more damage for finesse weapons because it assumes a more accurate hit. But this abstraction only ever makes sense in non Action RPGs.

And my argument is either merging or have enough differences to JUSTIFY the existence of 2 separate stats.

Right now the system they use is the worst of both worlds. It halves the ammount of available weapons, ensuring that at least half of all rewards for a str or dex build will be immediately forgotten about. But it also doesnt do anything interesting with either DEX or STR so the stats do the exact same thing, only differencei s what weapon you use. In D&D which I mentioned above, there are far more differences between dex and strength. Initiative being a big part. D&D justifies the differentiation between stats, Elden Ring doesnt.

The rewards and rough difficulty of the zone is on par with late game areas. And it is not just me saying it is late game either,

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Recommended+Level+by+Location

I am arguing from what I expect a random player to go through. Using things like achievements as a guide. What we can see is that a low ammount of people cleared the underground area, as in defeated the boss the place is most known for. The fact of the matter is. Most players wont exactly be stockpiled on respecs, so using them to test a few weapons, espeecially given how human psychology works, is not very feasible.

Edit:

In fact, I am very much not speaking for myself. I used those once to change from arcane to str, then from str to dex, and then back to str. I have been trained to use consumables very liberally from all the speedrunning I have been doing.

I went through the Underground Area. I was desperate to find something to like. I ended up getting the Stars Ending.

If you are one of those gamers who are not afraid to use very limited consumables, then congratulations! Hoarding is one of the greatest pitfalls Gamers especially in RPGs tend to face.

Are you serious right now? Why are you talking about Katanas irl? Dex is perfectly fitting for a Katana, and it should stay as is. On a side note, how does magic work irl btw?🤦‍♂️

Stop. The difference is there and always was there. Your suggestion is garbage. Meging means you can get more with less, and when you don't have hard choices to make when creating a build (especially true if you want to stay between lev70 and 100), you might as well glitch your ass to max level and have all the points you can, so there's enough to max every attribute.

And there is a difference between stats such as dex/str🤦‍♂️Moveset, speed, stamina consumption and weight to name a few. You just want to get everything important with minimal stats investment. No, that's not how this works. Try AssCreed, you might like that game😎

@Maroxad: Fextralife is garbage

You have never seen an irl Katana have you? You are aware Katanas are roughly in the same weight (if not a bit heavier) than other swords being developed at the time? Katanas were NOT finesse weapons. So your argument of "A Katana should scale with dex, and not str." completely falls apart. Why were you even using that argument in the first place, if upon immediately being pushed on it you went with the "duh its fantasy" fallacy?

Hard Choices when making a build? Are you kidding me? Especially with how high the SL Meta is. Picking between Dex or Str is not a real choice. You pick what weapon(s) you like and build around that. If you actually paid attention to my optoin 2, you would see that I would argue that str vs dex would be an ACTUAL choice. As 2 whip users, one focused on STR and the other focused on DEX would both be viable, yet play differently. You would know this if you had actually been playing actual tabletop RPGs.

The difference between str and dex comes from the movesets of the weapons they boost, not the attributes themselves. In D&D, it is the attributes themselves that make the difference.

Either remove this fake choice, which only adds an unncessary barrier, or make the choice an actual choice, that is what I am arguing for.

Regardless of your personal feelings.

Facts of the matter is that the rewards and monster strength of the area is akin to that of other late game zones.

Given the obscure ways to get there, it is extremely like you will encounter that Zone AFTER you have defeated the Giant Boss of the Mountain. Given the fact that the event following the death of the mountain boss marks the point of no return. I would argue that it is very much a late game boss.

Yes, i have seen a god damn katana irl. I even had a weeb living near me that took it with him when walking with his emo gf on the streets😱That until the police confiscated it from him.

This is a video game. In a video game, we classify weapons by a weapon class, and give each class a main scaling attribute. YES, a Katana is much more of a Dex suiting weapon than a greataxe, thank you. If we go by your stupid logic, most weapons would scale with str, making it a mandatory attribute, which is incredibly dumb (like you didn't learn your lesson with Adapatability in DkS2...).

I said when making a build between RL70-100. If you enjoy playing against nothing else but bleed builds running seppuku, Fingerprint shield or RoB, then be my guest, tell yourself that you're enjoying the 125-150 meta. Of course at RL150 you have enough points to have your 60vig and 50+ in your main damage stat. And that's why rl150 is trash. If there's no hard choices, you don't have a build, its just points invested in everything you need.

Ain't nobody is gonna have your D&D ideas in a Souls game. You could be bitchin' about the game's performance, pathetic draw distance, repetitive caves & shrines, but here you are crying about weapon scaling, something that was never a problem. As i said, you're making problems out of thin air because you have a hard time finding anything negative that is worth criticizing the game for.

Keep raging about the massive success of Elden Ring. When the DLC comes out, i hope you don't overheat like I_P_Daily did.

You mean just do the Varre quest? It's one of the easiest quest lines in the game to do. It's also not even a hard zone, the whole thing can just be sprinted through. I doubt most players took until Fire Giant to go to the Palace, and if they did they most likely didn't find/go to the Palace at all.

You can pretty much sprint through any Zone. Terrible argument on your part. Especially as I was talking about Monster STRENGTH, which is to say their damage and durability. Not difficulty.

The mountaintops literally guides you with the invisible hand to the northern side, away from the entrance to the secret area. Be it through the fact that the have an assassination quest leading them north, or the path and level design leading them there.

The giant dragon is arguably the only obstacle in the way. But it is such a well designed boss fight that actually utilizes the game's mechanics. I dont think people mind dying to the mist attack a few times.

Compare this to the palace, which requires you not only to find 2 out of the way items to access the first area, but then a SECOND out of the way portal to access the palace you are thinking of, are you seriously trying to tell me the average player is going to access that area before they fight the giant?

Almost 3 months of continuously playing from NG+ to PVP, it's not surprising, most people are burned out and will find another game to play.

In video games strength has been used for every melee weapon until around the early 2000's. The cause for this change was D&D's 3rd edition being released which released a Feat called Weapon Finesse which allowed users to use dexterity for their attack rolls (not damage rolls) instead of their strength for light weapons and rapiers.

In From Soft ARPGs (that came out after Demons Souls) this is a problem however, because strength, dexterity, intelligence and faith do NOTHING aside from boosting weapons that scale with them. When I see a Katana user in Elden Ring, I do not think Dex User. I think Katana user, might emphasize bleed. The fact that they have points in Dexterity does not manifeset in the fight, only that they use a katana with 400 weapon power.

My issue is that Elden Ring, alongside previous souls games are very uncreative with their stats, and don't do enough with them to justify their existence.

And please... D&D ideas are already brimming in Elden Ring. Where do you think Dex affecting some melee weapons even came from? Thing is, in D&D it was just so much better executed. Since Dex and Str manifest themselves in way more ways than just the weapon being used. A rogue with high strength will be able to use their strength, even with a dagger, a barbarian with high dex will be able to utilize their dexterity even despite the fact that they are using a greataxe.

I have gone on a tangent on all of those things barring the draw distance. The context of this discussion (TC bringing up how you wont use most weapons you find) however resulted in the discussion of this topic. About Elden Ring's awful character system that combines the worst of multiple worlds.

1. Shallow, Dull Combat that recycles animations from previous Souls games.
2. Awful Character System
3. Copy Paste Dungeons with recycled assets, rooms and bosses
4. Empty Open World does very little useful other than serving as filler between 2 zones, and the occational boss fight that actually makes use of them.
5. Awful Questing
6. Obtuse Storytelling
7. Dull Story either way
8. Boring Boss Fights
9. The game after the second half feels unfinished
10. Game discourages experimentation by forcing you to invest in every weapon before you can properly use them.
11. Crafting is annoying, not fun.

All in all terrible game, and the worst game I have played since WoW: Shadowlands. Shadowlands was worse, at least Elden Ring has some thigns I like about it.

1. Accessories and itemization remains strong
2. Despite me disliking most bosses, there were a few hits here and there.
3. Strong atmosphere, most likely stemming from the fact that Miyazaki himself is a map builder and his hobbies DO manifest in this game, in a good way.
4. The Main consumable items, the flasks and elixir are reusable with every rest.

Oh man, have you not seen the footage on youtube or twitch? Everyone has a hard time with Malenia. She has a super annoying whirlwind slash attack that is very close to impossible to avoid unless you are very far away already and every time she hits you (even when you are blocking) she regains health. It is a very difficult fight and the only one where I finally used a summon. Technically it was the Mimic Tear Ashes of War, but it is a clone of you. I got that up to +10 and I used the Morgott's Cursed Sword +10 because blood attacks with that will stunlock her eventually. Even with all of that, it still took me close to 2 hours of trying over and over to finally beat her.

Malenia is ridiculous. I think I had more trouble with Isshin from Sekiro (last boss that took me 10 hours over and over to beat) but she is probably right up there in terms of the hardest bosses of all of these games.

Barely even read your paragraph cuz of possible spoilers. The reason why i have such a fun time trying to 100% the game on my first playthrough is because i don't watch anything about the game. Don't want any spoilers.

@hardwenzen: Oops, ok. Well enjoy then.

@Maroxad: Not a terrible argument lol, sprinting has been a viable strategy in these games forever now. Nearly every enemy in the zone is slow and plodding so it's an especially good strategy in that zone. I'm guessing you never went there. You talk about monster strength but ignore enemy type.

Yes, I believe the majority of people who actually go to the Palace did so before Fire Giant. Just like most people didn't wait until endgame to find the underground content.

This debate has gotten off topic and I really don't care to continue it. I already made my points about upgrades and larval tears, you can feel how you want to feel about it.

It's snippets like these where I can tell that FromSoft games just aren't for you. You can't complain that a quest line is gone when you kill the person offering the quest (which you've done). All of these pieces are present in all of there games, and I have to say, I'm glad they don't listen to critiques like yours.

@HoolaHoopMan: Don't forget his "Boring Boss Fights" point. My goodness, what an awful take. These were some of the most engaging, fun, and very frustrating boss fights in any game ever....But no, they're just boring.

Wow. I can't even....

I honestly, I would say that OVERALL I wish Elden Ring had better boss fights (I still think Bloodborne is superior here). But when compared to non-FromSoftware games they are generally fantastic. It's a dumb critique where they are confusing preference for design. A game does not need to cater to everyone.

@HoolaHoopMan: its hilarious, all the belden ring fans coming in here to defend this travesty of a game. Its too bad most people dont think this way, with 90% of the player base declined in less than 3 months.

If there's an SW award for the hottest takes of the year, Maroxad wins easily. So many bad takes and ridiculous nitpicking, its insane. But as ppl said above me, this game is simply not for you. You should stick to games that hold your hand and guide you through the whole experience. Most of those games don't even have proper bosses, so no matter what, you won't be able to complain about them lol.

They should include a easy difficulty option in Elden Ring.

@HoolaHoopMan: I don't know, man. Agree to disagree here. I felt like Elden Ring covered all Souls and Sekiro games' styles of boss fights. And now, you can ride on a mount to fight several of them as well. It might have gotten old by the 4th or so dragon, but fighting that first dragon on the mount was so much fun for me. Felt like a movie. I thought there were several fights too that utilized swift combat as seen in Bloodborne, so I'm not entirely sure what more Elden Ring needed to do to cover that but to each his own.

But yes, From Software should continue to cater to nobody and make the games they want to make. I love them all, even Dark Souls 2 so I have a bias. But it sucks when companies start bending the knee in order to make sure everyone has a good time. Not every company needs to make the game you want. Some games just are not for certain people. And that's ok. That's the way it should be.

Sounds like Halo, except Halo lost like 95% in 2 months (and it's free).

let it go, not everyone is a fan of belden ring, this is normal. Its not the greatest game out there, its decent, not bad not great. Right there in the middle. No need for the butt hurt.

Well, what do they always say to people who constantly bash X game on these forums? Looks like Elden Ring is living rent free in your head.

Sure, it's just that everything you said applies to Halo Infinite (A free game) even more.

A lot of his points several posts up on this page could be said about his beloved Breath of the Wild as well too. Boring boss fights, copy paste dungeons, dull story, empty open world. I don't know how you can make those points about Elden Ring and defend BOTW but whatever, I guess.

That is what i have been telling him for over 3 months. And even then, saying that this has boring boss fights is simply dumb. As if he doesn't understand what makes a boss fight great or bad. Same with the side dungeons. While the repetitive caves and shrines do suck, ER has a load of unique side content, so if you're criticizing its side content, you need to look at the whole picture instead of a tiny portion of it. You look at BOTW and all the shrines look exactly the same, as if they were just randomly generated with the same assets, and that's pretty much your main side content. I am sorry but what ER offers is light years ahead of what's in botw when we're talking about the side content.

Well, it all depends on your build. If you're any type of mage build, she's not so bad. Meanwhile, someone with a big slow 2her will have a much harder time.

I was a total masochist, and insisted on learning to parry all of her attacks and beat her that way. Took at least 10 hours of actual practice against her to finally be able to pull it off.

Which Quest NPC did I kill?

Questlines, most notably the pot questline would fail if you progressed too far at various points in the story, and didnt meet him at random positions in the world map at first. That Quest was my last straw with Elden Ring's quest design.

I have played Adventure Games, I can take obtuseness, but this was pure CastleVania 2 levels of bad.

I will admit my points against the game are purely subjective and my opinion. But those 11 poitns I brought up sum up how I felt about the game and ended up really disliking it. Shame because I used to like From Soft's games.

The bosses were fine at first. But as the game continued, more and more bosses ended up being more anti-fun mechanics, like covering the entire floor they stood on with Danger Zones, forcing me to lure them out of there... really... slowly, so I could start damaging them again. When a good chunk of bosses were also flat out copy pasted my patience wore even more thin.

As I didnt employ ranged attacks, I was often just forced to sit there, dodging their easy to dodge ranged attacks until they finally had the decency to move out of there, or just have the Danger Zones expire.

I am not the one bringing up BotW. Hardwenzen is.

If you pay attention, you will notice that I bring up Nioh 2. I dont compare this to BotW because BotW is a gme focused on puzzles and problem solving.

Nioh 2 on the other hand is a game focused on combat. Much like Elden Ring.

I'm still playing it, just not every night like the first month, now I'm back to playing for an hour each Saturday morning. I see no reason for me to rush to the end.

....I'm still playing BOTW, I still go back to it and have been every other month since launch, still have shrines to unlock. I wager I'll still be playing ER by the time some good DLC drops for it.

well that's a bit disappointing, thought wenzen might've been the let me solo her guy

Bolded: It's all good dude. You and I see eye to eye on most things political. System Wars is just a break from that crap and this is all in good fun.

Ahh good, I just dont want people thinking I am presenting my opinions as objective.

I remember being one of the few people hyped for Demons' Souls back in the day. Most others were hyped as hell for Dragon Age: Origins. But me, I was more hyped for Demons. I loved the horror vibes the game had and the alleged difficulty meant I might be able to recapture my... childhood memories. When I was young, I would usually die over and over to most segments. And the feeling of finally nailing them was endlessly satisfying.

Only problem was. I ended up overpreparing myself for the game and entered a sort of mental state where I had nigh spotless reflexes and awareness. Only died 5 times in my entire first playthrough. Oh well.

Just two handing a glaive atm. Never cheesed any bosses with parries so it ain't starting now.

If they ever capture Tower of Latria again I'll be impressed. I think Bloodborne certainly did their horror aspect the best. One thing I think Elden Ring is lacking: Horror vibes and areas.

Same, I think that is why I was so disappointed in the Zones. I kept expecting something the game would never give me, wanting more horror.

Oh yea dude, lets expect horror from a game that was said to be using Norse mythos before it was even shown for the first time. I personally expect to drive a Ferrari in ER, and its very disappointing that there's no cars. Lazy dev? A possiblity.

@hardwenzen: Oh my friend. Parrying her is anything but "cheese".

Just try it and see for yourself.

As someone who is Nordic, I can assure you, they clearly failed on that too.

And there is nothing incompatitable with Nordic stuff and Horror themes.

Mangy this is almost, almost mind you, hard to watch...

lolol :P

Grasping for Elden Ring hate is pretty sad, its like as if a SP game will lose its playerbase 3 months after launch.....this ain't a MMORPG ya window lickers.

ooff, this thread really triggered the belden ring fangirls, they all came out in droves to defend this travesty. Its amazing how much butt hurt there is over this game. Anyways, lets get this thread over 200+

They did fail about the Norse stuff, which did disappoint me, but because their Dark Souls art style/medieval fantasy is great, it didn't matter much. And its nothing to do with Nordic direction being compatible with horror or not. Its the fact that nobody at Fromsoft told us that they're aiming for what you wanted. You being disappointed is your own doing.

I always wanted to see horror elements in Metroid, and see this franchise become M rated for proper gore and violence. When Metroid 4 comes out in 2026, do you want me to complain about it not being what i wanted it to be?

oh no, people move on from games, what a travesty