Elden Ring is the anti-Ubisoft open-world game and I love it for it

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Juub1990

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#1  Edited By Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts

No tower to climb that reveals the entire area, making the exploration pointless. No quest logs with a million different bullshit fetch and boring quests. No ten million icons on the map with crappy paint-by-the-numbers repetitive stuff to do.

Despite how massive it is, every location seems carefully crafted and you always end up finding something interesting or unexpected (which mostly involves a monster trying to kill you but eh). I hope everyone takes notes on how to design their open-world in the future (Guerilla Games and Nintendo too) because this is the way to do it.

An adventure game proper. Always a sense of fear and discovery waiting behind every corner. This game's open-world just took most to school.

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xantufrog

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#2 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

Dude, stop - I need to finish some other games first. Quit tempting me

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Juub1990

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#3  Edited By Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@xantufrog said:

Dude, stop - I need to finish some other games first. Quit tempting me

If it's an open-world, drop it. This one puts all of them to shame.

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SecretPolice

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#4 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44382 Posts

I'll give it a whirl when it hits GamePass. By then I should have a XSX. lol :P

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SolidGame_basic

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#5 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 45667 Posts

It's a Souls game.. would be weird if you had to climb towers, talk to people, do quests lol

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Pedro

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#6  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70891 Posts

No tower, just a map that reveals the area which equates to the same game mechanic as the towers. The main difference is that it requires less effort.

My map is littered with icons.

I don't see the absence of a quest log as a bonus. It just means you now have to mentally keep track of all sidequests.

Ubisoft game worlds are well crafted but they are not crafted in a "gamey" manner like the souls games. DS game worlds are all dead and devoid of any semblance of life. This game tries to move away from that but it still feels like a fantastical version of hell.

I never understood the hate for Ubisoft games when the modern formula of open world games derive so much influence from them.🤷‍♂️

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xantufrog

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#7  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@Pedro: I don't get the issue with the towers specifically. I think some people conflate them with the overload of map icons. BotW had the exact same tower mechanic without that and it was fine. I'd argue the tower gimmick is an oddly realistic way of mapping in these games - explorers would literally climb tall trees, hills, etc to survey a rough map of the new region they were entering... actually makes a bit more sense than a magical cellphone gps app in your character's mind (unless it's appropriate for the setting)

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pyro1245

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#8 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 9454 Posts

@Pedro@xantufrog

One of the main differences between ER/BotW and Ubi is: When you uncover the map in BotW and ER, you still have to explore to know what's there. Also the verticality of the maps make getting there a challenge. I find Ubisoft games extremely boring due to this lack of motivation to explore. I think BotW and ER are refreshing open worlds by comparison. The tower mechanic has nothing to do with it for me. It's the world and the content that matters. ER and BotW just feel more rewarding when I spend my time there. Even in its open world form, ER retains what makes level design in a Souls game fun. I think this would still hold true if you had the whole map from the start, or didn't have a map at all. I enjoy it because it's NOT realistic world design, yet spacially it is still coherent.

That's just my take.

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Juub1990

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#9 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts

@Pedro: The map requires far more effort to find. You need to explore the area to get it, not just look on the horizon and climb a tower.

Furthermore, the map just reveals the area, nothing else. You still need to find the landmarks, caves, castles, etc yourself.

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Mozelleple112

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#10 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

@SecretPolice: You don't even have an XSX?

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Mozelleple112

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#11 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

@Pedro: The difference is Ubisoft worlds feel generic, stale and dead.

Elden Ring (the best of the bunch), Red Dead II, Zelda BOTW, Witcher 3 all feel alive and worth exploring and immersing yourself in.

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Juub1990

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#12 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@pyro1245 said:

@Pedro@xantufrog

One of the main differences between ER/BotW and Ubi is: When you uncover the map in BotW and ER, you still have to explore to know what's there. Also the verticality of the maps make getting there a challenge. I find Ubisoft games extremely boring due to this lack of motivation to explore. I think BotW and ER are refreshing open worlds by comparison. The tower mechanic has nothing to do with it for me. It's the world and the content that matters. ER and BotW just feel more rewarding when I spend my time there. Even in its open world form, ER retains what makes level design in a Souls game fun. I think this would still hold true if you had the whole map from the start, or didn't have a map at all. I enjoy it because it's NOT realistic world design, yet spacially it is still coherent.

That's just my take.

I agree with BOTW, except the payoff is just too meagre. I can only get excited so many times with 900 Korok seeds and 100+ shrines.

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SecretPolice

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#13 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44382 Posts

@Mozelleple112:

lol Nope still sporting an X1X but only because I won't go out of my way and or pay a premium to scalpers. MY X1X still doing well but by the end of this year I'll probably feel a bit more desperate to have this gen hardware.

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Mesome713

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#14 Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 7238 Posts

Sucks this game is scoring so low with fans. It’s lowest scored Fromsoft game I’ve ever seen. It’s the Skyward Sword of the series.

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simple-facts

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#15  Edited By simple-facts
Member since 2021 • 2592 Posts

If you don't like ubisoft-esq games you mustn't like many open world games.

Sony leans on the formula a lot in its first party,in fact I'm sure GT7 has bases to capture 😂

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DaVillain

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#16 DaVillain  Moderator
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@pyro1245 said:

@Pedro@xantufrog

One of the main differences between ER/BotW and Ubi is: When you uncover the map in BotW and ER, you still have to explore to know what's there. Also the verticality of the maps make getting there a challenge. I find Ubisoft games extremely boring due to this lack of motivation to explore. I think BotW and ER are refreshing open worlds by comparison. The tower mechanic has nothing to do with it for me. It's the world and the content that matters. ER and BotW just feel more rewarding when I spend my time there. Even in its open world form, ER retains what makes level design in a Souls game fun. I think this would still hold true if you had the whole map from the start, or didn't have a map at all. I enjoy it because it's NOT realistic world design, yet spacially it is still coherent.

That's just my take.

I for one never have issues with Ubisoft open-world games as I for one a fan of any open-world games. When playing Ubi games, just don't fall into Ubi's trap tropes and just go for the main quest if possible is what I do. Breath of the Wild, even though I love the Zelda series, I think BOTW is overrated and it's as if people never played a Zelda game before. Heck, I love Horizon more than I did with BOTW but that's another story.

Elden Ring is a great open-world game, I do understand some gamers want to see quest-logs/waypoints but this is the type of open-world to go explore on your own terms. My advice is don't think about Ubi's open-world tropes and just turn off your brain to not think about climbing even though it's in the game lol.

I'm with Pedro & Xantufrog on this as I too don't get the whole hate Ubisoft gets? They do make none -open-world games that are fun to play. This is just my two cents on the issue.

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Litchie

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#17 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34843 Posts

My two cents on the Ubisoft towers thing: AC towers are boring, and also litters the map with a large number of samey tasks. BotW does it better than AC by making climbing them into a little puzzle, rather than just tilting forward. ER does it ok, in that it isn't annoying.

I agree that this way of doing open world games is sweet. It removes the "here's your checklist" feeling of most other open world games, and makes me feel more engaged and immersed with the world. I feel like I'm playing the game my own way rather than always being led. It's awesome, and I hope we'll see more of this shit.

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pyro1245

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#18 pyro1245
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@davillain:

I think it comes down to what you want out of a game. Personally, I really enjoy exploration and character building over seeing the main story through. The journey is its own reward for me.

I don't really have a problem with Ubi games. I just always get bored and stop playing them.

HZD is actually an exception in that I got hooked by the plot and had to see it through. Great game, but I had to stop doing side content and go right for the main story because I could feel myself slipping.

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Juub1990

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#19 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts

@davillain said:

I'm with Pedro & Xantufrog on this as I too don't get the whole hate Ubisoft gets? They do make none -open-world games that are fun to play. This is just my two cents on the issue.

They strip the fun out of exploring. There is almost no reason to explore their games because there is almost nothing interesting to be found. Climb a tower in AC, it reveals the area. Here's a fort there with 2 treasure chests, 2 boss enemies. Here's a site with 6 lions. This place has a collectible. You don't care about any of that because it's all worthless. Not only is there no incentive to explore, the rewards are plainly laid out and they're boring and useless for the most part.

As for the quest log, my problem isn't the log itself. TW3 and TES have quest logs and they're useful for tacking progress but imagine my shock when I looked at my quest log in AC Odyssey. There were easily 40+ that I mostly ignored and they were all boring as shit.

Recently, Yves Guillemot even recently spoke about how he equated number of hours played to success. Ubisoft only cares about how long the player remains in their games, not how much fun they're having. Their games are a bloated mess of unfun, uncreative, and uninspired mechanics. That's why they get hate.

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#20  Edited By st_monica
Member since 2020 • 1470 Posts
@mesome713 said:

Sucks this game is scoring so low with fans. It’s lowest scored Fromsoft game I’ve ever seen. It’s the Skyward Sword of the series.

Its Steam user reviews have already been changed to "Very Positive" as Fromsoft has patched some issues. Currently, 80% of the user reviews are positive.

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Ibacai

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#21 Ibacai
Member since 2006 • 14459 Posts

It feels like we’re arguing about fruit and it’s not apples to oranges, it’s clementines to tangerines.

They do the same thing but in slightly different ways. And after watching a plethora of videos and talking to friends who have played it, the world in Elden Ring is just as static as an Ubisoft AC game, you just have to do all the work of keep track of everything and talk to less people.

If you like less hand holding then ER is for you, but for me I don’t want to have to keep journals for most of my video games. That’s just me.

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Archangel3371

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#22  Edited By Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44793 Posts

While I am having a great time with Elden Ring and definitely think that it’s a great game I do find it a bit difficult to keep track of exactly where to go for sometimes for quests. Also find it a bit annoying trying to remember where some merchants are if I want to return later to purchase certain items. The Ubisoft Assassin’s Creed formula doesn’t really bother me to be honest. Also really don’t mind climbing up a tower to reveal a portion of the map. Doing that or looking for it ala ER are both fine for me.

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Juub1990

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#23 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@Ibacai said:

It feels like we’re arguing about fruit and it’s not apples to oranges, it’s clementines to tangerines.

They do the same thing but in slightly different ways. And after watching a plethora of videos and talking to friends who have played it, the world in Elden Ring is just as static as an Ubisoft AC game, you just have to do all the work of keep track of everything and talk to less people.

If you like less hand holding then ER is for you, but for me I don’t want to have to keep journals for most of my video games. That’s just me.

A game being static isn't a problem in and of itself. It's what you find in this world that makes it worth exploring.

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Gym_Lion

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#24 Gym_Lion
Member since 2020 • 2592 Posts

@Juub1990: climbing towers in AC games just acts as a fast travel point now. The game requires you to explore to uncover locations.

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#27 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 10618 Posts
@Juub1990 said:

@Pedro: The map requires far more effort to find. You need to explore the area to get it, not just look on the horizon and climb a tower.

Furthermore, the map just reveals the area, nothing else. You still need to find the landmarks, caves, castles, etc yourself.

100%.

it feels liberating to do without so many of the ubisoft style open world familiar features we've been conditioned to expect over the years. fromsoft have always been masters of rewarding exploration and they take that philosophy to the next level through elden ring's open world. some of the mini adventures i've had in this game are just so good. stumbled upon things and ended up going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole, totally absorbed. 30+ hours in so far and i feel like i've barely scratched the surface. genuinely one of the best gaming experiences ive had in a long time

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Pedro

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#28  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70891 Posts
@Mozelleple112 said:

@Pedro: The difference is Ubisoft worlds feel generic, stale and dead.

Elden Ring (the best of the bunch), Red Dead II, Zelda BOTW, Witcher 3 all feel alive and worth exploring and immersing yourself in.

Ubisoft worlds are objectively far from being generic, stale or dead. Especially when comparing it to Darks Souls, Bloodbourne, Demons Souls and Elden Ring combined. In fact, Dark Souls, Bloodbourne, Demon Souls and Elden Ring are all thematically the same. They are all dead worlds and they use generic fantasy architecture.

You can definitely argue that you find the exploration in these games more interesting because of the attention placed with hidden pathways and nooks. That would be an accurate assessment but let us not pretend that the company that has produce the largest variety of game worlds is generic, stale or dead.

@Juub1990 said:

@Pedro: The map requires far more effort to find. You need to explore the area to get it, not just look on the horizon and climb a tower.

Furthermore, the map just reveals the area, nothing else. You still need to find the landmarks, caves, castles, etc yourself.

The map does not require more effort to find. I have simply located the stone on my map and ride to that location. There is only one map that is given me problems to access. I locate the towers in the same manner I have done in Assassin's Origin.

It is also false that the map reveals nothing else. It shows the structures that when visited would become icons on the map. I use the map for identifying areas I want to explore in the same manner I do for every other open world game.

Again, this strange hate to Ubisoft games seems rather extreme and generally unnecessary. I enjoy all the games folks have listed because they all have different design philosophies and themes which they build their worlds around. Gamers have the freedom to decide which is most compatible with their tastes. Personal taste doesn't equate to better, just preference.

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#29  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11724 Posts

The world is fantastic, randomly stumbling across Siofra River is one of my favorite moments in any open world game. Ubi worlds are stale and uninspired in comparison.

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Archangel3371

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#30 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44793 Posts

@girlusocrazy: Yeah I get that but you need to have some forehand knowledge that you may want/need to return to that particular merchant or you may forget why you marked a spot when you’re a dozen or more hours into the game.

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uninspiredcup

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#31 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59561 Posts

I'll get it when it's port isn't a shit show.

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Juub1990

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#32  Edited By Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@Pedro said:

The map does not require more effort to find. I have simply located the stone on my map and ride to that location. There is only one map that is given me problems to access. I locate the towers in the same manner I have done in Assassin's Origin.

It is also false that the map reveals nothing else. It shows the structures that when visited would become icons on the map. I use the map for identifying areas I want to explore in the same manner I do for every other open world game.

Again, this strange hate to Ubisoft games seems rather extreme and generally unnecessary. I enjoy all the games folks have listed because they all have different design philosophies and themes which they build their worlds around. Gamers have the freedom to decide which is most compatible with their tastes. Personal taste doesn't equate to better, just preference.

Yes it does because the map isn't a tower you can see from halfway across the map. The one in Liurna East for instance is located in the middle of a foggy swamp. The one in Caelid is located deeper in the area on a ridge etc. They aren't hidden (what would be the point?) but they generally require you to look around and find them, and not just pin them and run right for them. Finding them is simply another incentive to explore.

Towers can be fun if they're short and cool puzzles like the Tallnecks in Horizon.

And what do you mean locate the stone on your map? If you haven't discovered the area map, the map is blank and landmarks require you to travel to them to show up on the map.

The map reveals the area...the structures are part of the area. What are you arguing here?

The hate their games get isn't strange but well understood. You're just playing devil's advocate like always.

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Pedro

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#33 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70891 Posts

@Juub1990 said:

Yes it does because the map isn't a tower you can see from halfway across the map. The one in Liurna East for instance is located in the middle of a foggy swamp. The one in Caelid is located deeper in the area on a ridge etc. They aren't hidden (what would be the point?) but they generally require you to look around and find them, and not just pin them and run right for them. Finding them is simply another incentive to explore.

Towers can be fun if they're short and cool puzzles like the Tallnecks in Horizon.

And what do you mean locate the stone on your map? If you haven't discovered the area map, the map is blank and landmarks require you to travel to them to show up on the map.

The map reveals the area...the structures are part of the area. What are you arguing here?

The map is identified on the map as a small tombstone. You can place a marker on that tombstone and simple ride directly to that location. There was only one map that required effort to locate (still haven't found it) but all of them are very easy to acquire with very little effort. Finding a tower is just as an incentive to explore as finding a map.

The last Ubisoft game I played (Origins) didn't have towers. It was variety of building structures and sites. Most of them require you to figure out how you would approach the ascent and they are not needed for exploration since the map reveals itself as you explore. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

When you enter an area, the map is blank. I don't know how much roaming that is needed but there is typically a small stone located on the map indicating where the map can be found. All of structures are visible on the map. When you reach the location, the location gets an icon.

You said "Furthermore, the map just reveals the area, nothing else." That is not true. It shows the structures, lakes and other things of interest. It is just not iconized. When you get to that area, the icon appears. I spend the majority of my time exploring the world and the map is the what I use to identify what structures are to be iconized.

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Juub1990

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#34  Edited By Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@Pedro said:

The map is identified on the map as a small tombstone. You can place a marker on that tombstone and simple ride directly to that location. There was only one map that required effort to locate (still haven't found it) but all of them are very easy to acquire with very little effort. Finding a tower is just as an incentive to explore as finding a map.

When you enter an area, the map is blank. I don't know how much roaming that is needed but there is typically a small stone located on the map indicating where the map can be found. All of structures are visible on the map. When you reach the location, the location gets an icon.

You need to right past it in order for it to show at all. Otherwise the map is grey. It shows up only after you have ridden/walked in its vicinity.

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Gym_Lion

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#35 Gym_Lion
Member since 2020 • 2592 Posts

@Juub1990: if you look closely it does show the map stone on the uncovered map.

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Juub1990

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#36 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@gym_lion said:

@Juub1990: if you look closely it does show the map stone on the uncovered map.

Which is my point. You need to visit the area for it to show at all. Otherwise it looks like this:

The right part which hasn't been visited at all is covered in fog. The small tombstone reveals itself only if you walk in its general vicinity and I believe landmarks also remain on the map if you've discovered them without the map.

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#37  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 40325 Posts

What was i saying for over a year? That team understands what makes an open world interesting. If every open world game had this much depth and zero chores, open world titles would be the unbeatable #1 genre there is. The more i play this game, the more it reminds me of Morrowind, actually. Its the last open world rpg that i played where you had that sense of discovery and danger in the world.

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#38 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@Archangel3371 said:

While I am having a great time with Elden Ring and definitely think that it’s a great game I do find it a bit difficult to keep track of exactly where to go for sometimes for quests. Also find it a bit annoying trying to remember where some merchants are if I want to return later to purchase certain items. The Ubisoft Assassin’s Creed formula doesn’t really bother me to be honest. Also really don’t mind climbing up a tower to reveal a portion of the map. Doing that or looking for it ala ER are both fine for me.

I think that it's a bit more evident than people give it credit for. Sites of grace will often times point you in the direction of a main question line or place of interest. If you explore and pick up items, you'll generally be progressing. Also, dialogue that is crucial for progression or hints is always present in characters back in the hold, or found in items/notes. For instance, you find a map and item that explicitly tells you where to find a key into Lucaria. You may not have a journal or a way point item, but you certainly have pieces in your inventory that'll provide enough to continue.

There is one exception I'll say though. One instance had me scratching my head going, 'How the f*ck was I supposed to know that?'.

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#39 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11515 Posts

Maybe, but they really could have used one of those Ubisoft open world game engines.

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Archangel3371

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#40 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44793 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan: Oh yeah I do agree that there is certainly a lot of stuff that shows and tells you where to go. I’m not saying it’s necessarily bad or anything. Just saying that there are times where you can be left wondering just who said what again and where I might find so and so or such and such even when you start playing again the next day. I can only imagine how it might be if one were to take a bit of an extended break from the game.

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ellos

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#41  Edited By ellos
Member since 2015 • 2532 Posts

I like there style but what's with the hate for the formula that paved the way. As always its the way they design the levels and in this case the areas that stands out. I think even if they did a 1 to 1 ubisoft formula i would still enjoy these areas more then in those ubisoft games. I just think its time for them to fix there junky engine. I mean for starter the context animation need to act like your doing what the level was design for you to do.

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Pedro

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#42  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70891 Posts

@Juub1990 said:

You need to right past it in order for it to show at all. Otherwise the map is grey. It shows up only after you have ridden/walked in its vicinity.

No! You don't. It shows up independent of you passing near it. It just requires a certain amount of traversal in the uncharted area for it to appear. I know this because I did this for all the map locations. As in, I go into the area, roam around until it appears on the map. Then I head towards it. Some places it is on the map with very little to no exploration and is on the other side of the map which I have not been to.

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X_CAPCOM_X

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#43 X_CAPCOM_X
Member since 2004 • 9589 Posts

I also don't get the hate for Ubisoft-influenced open worlds. It just seems so arbitrary, since even BOTW took inspiration from it. The only actual issue with modern Ubi games is that they've taken the formula and added too many tedious things to it, enough so that playing the game feels like a chore at times. It can be done better (BoTW, HZD, etc.), and it's less a matter of the particular formula and more of the overall gameplay loop and design.

That said, Elden Ring is still better than these games. Perhaps the next ubi-styled open world can stand on the shoulders of Elden Ring.

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Ibacai

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#44 Ibacai
Member since 2006 • 14459 Posts

@Juub1990: true, but you weren’t arguing the content in your first paragraph in the OP. You were arguing how the game tracks information and what is handled for the player.

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Gifford38

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#45 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 7356 Posts

@Juub1990: sorry guerrilla games did the same with hzd2. If you read the reviews they changed the game around to feel less ubisoft. Heck there are different ways to solve the long necks now.

Every side mission feels different from one of the other. You would know if you played it.

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Juub1990

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#46 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts
@Ibacai said:

@Juub1990: true, but you weren’t arguing the content in your first paragraph in the OP. You were arguing how the game tracks information and what is handled for the player.

I wasn't arguing the content when I said bullshit fetch quests and boring ones?

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PurpleMan5000

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#47 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts

I don't really think that Elden Ring is very comparable to other open world games. It does get some things a whole lot better than most, like exploration, lack of hand-holding, and no level-scaling, but a big part of the appeal of the open world genre is that the game takes place in its own living, breathing world, and Elden Ring falls way short in that aspect.

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mojito1988

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#48 mojito1988
Member since 2006 • 4767 Posts

I will go against the grain and say it. I highly prefer the Ubisoft games. The loot and gear in general is boring to me in Elden Ring. The world is great but nothing really rewarding to get that interests me much within that world. It is still fun, but with very little story or even people in the world to interact with, It just feels bland to me.

To be honest I don't feel the open world does much for the souls formula.

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Macutchi

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#49 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 10618 Posts

@PurpleMan5000 said:

but a big part of the appeal of the open world genre is that the game takes place in its own living, breathing world, and Elden Ring falls way short in that aspect.

do you think it suffers for it?

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Pedro

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#50 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70891 Posts

@gifford38 said:

@Juub1990: sorry guerrilla games did the same with hzd2. If you read the reviews they changed the game around to feel less ubisoft. Heck there are different ways to solve the long necks now.

Every side mission feels different from one of the other. You would know if you played it.

That is a blatant lie.