Elden Ring is simply too difficult. I demand an Easy Mode.

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hardwenzen

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#1 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 19767 Posts

Now that i have easily baited you to click on the thread, what's your opinion about an Easy Mode for the next Fromsoft title? Since i am a toxic Fromsoft elitist, my opinion on the matter is too obvious, so i don't think i need to go any further (Ash summons are triggering me enough as is).

After watching Jim's take, i am boiling atm.

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KazumaKiryu21

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#2 KazumaKiryu21
Member since 2021 • 875 Posts

I don't need a easy mode but From takes away all the fun in NG + onwards in all the games, Kills the mood.

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x_hedon

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#3 x_hedon
Member since 2019 • 4379 Posts

Yes, they should add an easy mode. It's optional. That means hardcore guys like you can still play the game as intended, since easy is optional.

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Fedor

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#4  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 10405 Posts

Elden Ring already has easy modes, Jim's a dork with nonsense arguments like easy mode = accessibility.

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#5 DaVillain  Moderator  Online
Member since 2014 • 50794 Posts

People really asking for an “Easy Mode” for Elden Ring when the game isn’t really all that hard when you learn how to play it. Elden Ring is far more fair on check points than Dark Souls, there's no spending 10-20 mins to get back from where you died from your last bonfire. Yes, when you die you respawn from the last point of grace you used but you can fast.

@x_hedon said:

Yes, they should add an easy mode. It's optional. That means hardcore guys like you can still play the game as intended, since easy is optional.

No! The difficulty gives meaning to the experience. The player is faced with adversity & the game gives the player tons of tools to discover to become more powerful & ultimately overcome the adversities. Communities & discussions form around overcoming the difficulty (1/2). This is why games like Sifu is the way it was meant to be played. The game gives you the tools to learn and master.

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getyeryayasout

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#6 getyeryayasout
Member since 2005 • 13764 Posts

"Luckily we have a product for gamers who can't "get good", they're called movies."

"So stick with movies if you can't "get good", that's your message?"

"I'm saying that if you don't have access to getting good, we have a product for that. They're called movies."

Kelieghy out.

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x_hedon

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#7 x_hedon
Member since 2019 • 4379 Posts

@davillain said:

People really asking for an “Easy Mode” for Elden Ring when the game isn’t really all that hard when you learn how to play it. Elden Ring is far more fair on check points than Dark Souls, there's no spending 10-20 mins to get back from where you died from your last bonfire. Yes, when you die you respawn from the last point of grace you used but you can fast.

@x_hedon said:

Yes, they should add an easy mode. It's optional. That means hardcore guys like you can still play the game as intended, since easy is optional.

No! The difficulty gives meaning to the experience. The player is faced with adversity & the game gives the player tons of tools to discover to become more powerful & ultimately overcome the adversities. Communities & discussions form around overcoming the difficulty (1/2). This is why games like Sifu is the way it was meant to be played. The game gives you the tools to learn and master.

How about give me the option to have easy mode, and you have the option to face adversity and tons of tools? Easy mode would be purely optional. You personally would have your normal experience because you wouldn't choose easy mode.

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Miyomatic

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#8 Miyomatic
Member since 2005 • 3483 Posts

Sometimes an easy mode is not compatible with the artistic vision that the creator intended. Sometimes a hard journey is required for the intended experience or message they're trying to convey.

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rrjim1

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#9 rrjim1
Member since 2005 • 1962 Posts

They would probably double there sales.

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Antwan3K

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#10 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 6205 Posts

I'm all for options but Elden Ring is already the most accessible Souls game to date.. invasion limitations while not in multiplayer, ash spirit summons, respawning right at the boss door, the list goes on..

and as i said, i believe in options but i also believe in letting the artist be free with his/her vision.. and if FromSoft wants to maintain a certain level of difficulty, that should be respected..

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robert_sparkes

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#11 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 6219 Posts

The thing is if you don't like the difficulty then don't play it that's my Moto. I don't play punishingly difficult games.

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Fedor

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#12 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 10405 Posts

@rrjim1 said:

They would probably double there sales.

Nope, would probably cut them in half.

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hardwenzen

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#13  Edited By hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 19767 Posts
@rrjim1 said:

They would probably double there sales.

False. A casual buys a game because its popular (especially when surrounded by positivity), not because its easy. They aren't gonna beat the game if its easy or not. But you know what would happen if they were to add an easy mode? A category 5 shitstorm all over the web, which will bring a ton of negativity to the title months/years before its even released. A clueless casual sees it on twitter, and you think he'll be planning on buying the game? That's not how this works. This is especially true with this cult-like genre.

And that's not even to mention how the whole game will have a completely different (inferior) design because the added difficulties will muddy the vision of the game.

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TheEroica

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#14 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 20269 Posts

Easy mode is for losers. Play the game as intended so you get out of it what everyone gets out of it... The pure joy of accomplishing something in a video game with no one holding your hand....

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x_hedon

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#15 x_hedon
Member since 2019 • 4379 Posts

@rrjim1 said:

They would probably double there sales.

True.

@TheEroica said:

Easy mode is for losers. Play the game as intended so you get out of it what everyone gets out of it... The pure joy of accomplishing something in a video game with no one holding your hand....

I guess I am a loser. I want easy mode. I want my hand held. And my weiner.

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brimmul777

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#16 brimmul777
Member since 2011 • 5499 Posts

I’ve already requested a refund on ER and got it online.FYI it was a digital version on the XSX. I’m not a overly skilled player and have little to zip experience with RPG games of any type. The last time I got full attention of a RPG was Zelda on the SNES and I completed it.

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templecow90999

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#17 templecow90999
Member since 2021 • 295 Posts

I would say the game already gives you enough to make it easier/harder- inclusion of sorceries and summoning

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hardwenzen

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#18 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 19767 Posts

@brimmul777 said:

I’ve already requested a refund on ER and got it online.FYI it was a digital version on the XSX. I’m not a overly skilled player and have little to zip experience with RPG games of any type. The last time I got full attention of a RPG was Zelda on the SNES and I completed it.

Then it has nothing to do with difficulties but you not understanding rpg's because its not your genre. If that's the case, i don't see why you got the game in the first place.

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VatususReturns

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#19 VatususReturns
Member since 2021 • 467 Posts

Wtf? He has womans b00bs now? o_0'

Anyway, I used to dig Jim Sterling pov a couple of years back but stoped listening to him when he became yet again another sjw bringing politics into gaming. Dont care about his opinion

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PurpleMan5000

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#20 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10403 Posts

Elden Ring is already easy enough. Most of the frustration within the game could be alleviated by simply adding grabbing and climbing mechanics for the platforming segments.

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Archangel3371

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#21 Archangel3371  Online
Member since 2004 • 38300 Posts

It would not bother me at all if FromSoftware put an easy mode into their Souls games.

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Fedor

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#22  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 10405 Posts

Anyone who used Mimic tear or Black Knife Tiche at +10 (or one of the other several OP summons) already played the game on easy mode, and that's just one of the many ways to trivialize the games difficulty.

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TheEroica

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#23 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 20269 Posts

@x_hedon: lol... Weiner.

But seriously, I'd say it would strip souls games of what makes them so damn great. Just the community info sourcing alone is built on the backs of people empathizing over the struggle. To nerf these games would be to make it vanilla ice cream. Those who play it on easy will only have THAT experience when talking about the game and if I'm Miyazaki I don't want that perspective in the mix!

I don't consider myself an overly elite gamer. I think I'm pretty good. (like we all do.)beating a souls game is an achievement not offered in 99.9% of other games... To accomplish it is memorable!

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dimebag667

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#24 dimebag667
Member since 2003 • 2036 Posts

How can it be claimed that there are SOOOO many great games, and in such variety, but people just can't help trying to meddle with this one.

If the landscape of gaming is so rife with quality, and great experiences...why don't they just play something else?

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Silentchief

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#25 Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 3554 Posts

Ehh who watches Jim. Dude is an absolute cringe factory.

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#26 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 8696 Posts

@Miyomatic said:

Sometimes an easy mode is not compatible with the artistic vision that the creator intended. Sometimes a hard journey is required for the intended experience or message they're trying to convey.

this is the one. and you got to respect the vision. from humble beginnings now to a aaa heavyweight. guy is like midas

"We don’t want to include a difficulty selection because we want to bring everyone to the same level of discussion and the same level of enjoyment." Miyazaki said. "We want everyone to feel that sense of accomplishment. We want everyone to feel elated and to join that discussion on the same level. We feel if there’s different difficulties, that’s going to segment and fragment the user base. People will have different experiences based on that [differing difficulty level]."

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deactivated-628e6669daebe

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#27 deactivated-628e6669daebe
Member since 2020 • 3637 Posts

I don't care, let them do whatever they want.

Exploration is really what I enjoy more in their games.

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hardwenzen

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#28 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 19767 Posts

@dimebag667 said:

How can it be claimed that there are SOOOO many great games, and in such variety, but people just can't help trying to meddle with this one.

If the landscape of gaming is so rife with quality, and great experiences...why don't they just play something else?

lmao so true. and its been like that since Dark Souls 1.

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enzyme36

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#29 enzyme36
Member since 2007 • 5494 Posts

Games that dont allow you to select a difficulty mode always seem to perfectly cater the difficulty to the mechanics.

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#30 dabear
Member since 2002 • 5743 Posts

@hardwenzen: I don't play ER or Souls games in general because dying a bunch of times is not entertaining to me. But, that doesn't mean I'll bash the game - people like you like that style of games, you're certainly not alone, and that's perfectly fine. It's just not my cup of tea.

So, I am perfectly fine with skipping them. Maybe I would pick it up if there were an easy mode; as long as it didn't make the game button-mashing easy. But, that is moot since I doubt From would do that.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#31 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 18855 Posts

I don't think it needs an easy mode, it's easy already depending on your approach. You just need to experiment to find out what works best in what situation, like a puzzle.

I think if they had a mode that let people brute force their way through the mental exercise it would change the game into another type of game and I'm not sure if it would hold up as a different type of game because it wasn't designed for that.

For that reason I'm interested in hearing how people enjoy the easy mode mod on PC.

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osan0

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#32 osan0
Member since 2004 • 16859 Posts

As someone who doesn't get on with the souls games, i respect the developers decision to not bother with difficulty settings. Souls games are all about overcoming a challenge. Also doing difficulty settings properly is really hard and time consuming (most devs phone it in and its crap).

I just don't get on with them because i don't get the high from overcoming a challenge in those games. Its just a grind and frustration for me. I wouldn't have any sort of sense of accomplishment even if i did beat one, so meh.

However, as I understand it, this discussion has piped up over a mod for the PC version. Some believe that souls games MUST be hard to be enjoyed. But It's not for other players to dictate how a game should be enjoyed by someone. If a mod can tweak a game so it stops becoming a grind and source of frustration for some, AND it's not affecting other players games (not a MP hack or something) then what harm?

You can argue "but the developers vision" but, once a game is released, their vision is out of their hands. Any artist will lose control of their art. It's like playing a board game with house rules because they don't like the official rules. The creator may not like it but tough...it's out of their hands now.

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#33  Edited By Djoffer123  Online
Member since 2016 • 1686 Posts

Mehh I would much prefer a prober map, a quest log and a mini map over an easy mode… I have zero patience with a game that expects me to remember what random dude told me five days ago! And yeah why on earth we can’t get a working map where I don’t have to place my own waypoints is simply stupid and shouldn’t exist in a 2022 game…

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GoldenElementXL

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#34 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 7963 Posts

Gamers want to call games “art“ one minute, but then demand developers cater to their desires the next. It’s the goofiest shit ever. If From wants to make hard games, thats their choice. You don’t have to buy it… And it’s not their responsibility to make you feel like you’re good at video games. Get good or play something else… Seems pretty simple to me

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hardwenzen

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#35 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 19767 Posts

@djoffer123 said:

Mehh I would much prefer a prober map, a quest log and a mini map over an easy mode… I have zero patience with a game that expects me to remember what random dude told me five days ago! And yeah why on earth we can’t get a working map where I don’t have to place my own waypoints is simply stupid and shouldn’t exist in a 2022 game…

But here's a good one for you. IT DOES EXIST, and that game is clapping records in sales and i can't think of any singleplayer rpg's that have been this popular almost two months since release. Complexity creates communities. On the other hand, brainless titles that have a green arrow telling you exactly where to go and what to do are forgotten within a week.

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#36 DaVillain  Moderator  Online
Member since 2014 • 50794 Posts

@x_hedon said:

How about give me the option to have easy mode, and you have the option to face adversity and tons of tools? Easy mode would be purely optional. You personally would have your normal experience because you wouldn't choose easy mode.

All I can tell is just don't play that game and play something else? I'm all up for options for the player but sadly, once a game is out to the world however the developer made it cannot just alter the change how such a developer sets out to undo if a game gets a sequel that is. ER for example is Dark Souls only in open-world so despite being a new IP, it is still a Dark Souls so therefore cannot add an easy mode. ER is really easy compare to Dark Souls IMO.

@TheEroica said:

Easy mode is for losers. Play the game as intended so you get out of it what everyone gets out of it... The pure joy of accomplishing something in a video game with no one holding your hand....

I guess I am a loser. I want easy mode. I want my hand held. And my weiner.

Personally I think TheErocia was being harsh when he said "easy mode is for losers" and not every gamer is created equal nor is good/bad. Pokemon for example isn't easy as the average gamer here thinks it is. That game is really rock/paper/scissors and despite being a Poke veteran, I still make mistakes on my part even though it looks easy.

My point is, no gamer isn't perfect and if the player wants to play it easy mode, than that's okay. Just enjoy the game you want to play is all I'm saying. If the game itself doesn't have difficulty settings, just do the best you can. Even FromSoft veteran players know this and its what Rich is talking about calling out Jim on this easy mode nonsense.

You play Halo right? What difficulty you play? If its a new Halo sequel, I'll play it in Normal but on the next round playthrough, it's Legendary for me. If Halo only had Legendary with no option for the gamer, I'd be okay with this as it was meant to be play by the developer.

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lamprey263

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#37 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 41679 Posts

Fair to say a game like Elden Ring, despite the praise, won't be for everyone. I don't see how Jim Sterling is wrong for pointing that out.

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Mesome713

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#38  Edited By Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 3329 Posts

Easy mode would make the game better cause more gamers will buy and beat the game. More than half gamers who bought the game will not beat the game. And that is a shame. Many gamers were tricked into buying Elden Ring, most didn’t think the game would be that hard. And making the game easier for some won’t hurt us who like hard games. It’s a win win for everyone.

Plus, most y’all are playing on easy mode anyways. Until you beat the game naked, gtfo you filthy casuals.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#39  Edited By blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 12323 Posts

Well I agree with cross dressing James for the most part. Got to admit, he's super cool haha. Lots of these elitist clowns think a game should be literally unbeatable. Well...what about people who aren't amazing gamers, or those who dont have all this extra time, have an outside life and just want to play?

This was a problem for me with forza horizon 5. I got good enough to be put into the expert class of drivers. Now, the best spot I can do is around 2nd place. Can I grind it out and improve my ranking? If I dedicated more time to it sure and I also need to learn more indepth about tuning cars. If I just want to race, why the heck do I need to freaking learn how to tune up the cars?? For me this difficulty level would normally be fine, but all the events force me to stick to the expert class of racers and I can't even go down a level.

Streets of rage 4 is another example of a tough game. I couldn't beat the game by myself on normal and needed to beat it through coop. What a ridiculous game...you need to have really good focus and understanding of the timing of the different fighters, then execute at a high level.

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#40 Maroxad  Online
Member since 2007 • 19694 Posts

They already have one. It is called the Summoning Bell.

And the endless ammount of cheese you can do even without it.

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#41 EvanTheGamer
Member since 2009 • 1550 Posts

It's already one of the easiest Souls games, I don't think it needs different difficulty modes.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#42 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 18855 Posts

@mesome713 said:

More than half gamers who bought the game will not beat the game.

You can say that about any game

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Mesome713

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#43  Edited By Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 3329 Posts

@girlusocrazy: Not at this high of a rate. All the bosses I’m beating now only about 15-18% gamers have defeated. That embarrassing. The game ain’t even hard. Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is way harder then this. Gamers just suck at games. All video game reviewers beat this game super fast and got their review out on time. Yet how long has this game been out and only a very small amount have beat it. Fackin disgrace to gaming.

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PCLover1980

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#44 PCLover1980
Member since 2022 • 90 Posts

Difficulty options are just lazy imo. Most of the time, it just changes numbered values in a script somewhere and it just throws balance right out the window.

1 difficulty option is enough, especially for Souls-like games.

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#45  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15213 Posts

Anyone who says they improve sales by adding "easy mode" completely misses the point of why these games are doing well. They fullfill a niche of gameplay that is demanding and asks for a lot of engagement, in a market that is filled with handholdy games that ask nothing of you beyond your time spent.

There's a very strong chance that adding "easy mode" ends up the same as trying to please everyone, and pleasing no one. The challenge of the Soulsbornekiroring games isn't just the damage being done, it's the movesets, the environments, and the exploration for hidden equipment. Making those systems easy would mean having to design all enemies and levels with that in mind. Tunnels less labyrinthian, drops less hazardous, enemies fewer and less complicated, etc. While not impossible, it's ultimately a waste of their effort when Elden Ring has plainly shown these kinds of games can sell a shitload and get talked about for months without any sort of compromise.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#46  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 18855 Posts
@mesome713 said:

@girlusocrazy: Not at this high of a rate. All the bosses I’m beating now only about 15-18% gamers have defeated. That embarrassing. The game ain’t even hard.

I guess easy mode won't solve anything since it "ain’t even hard.". There's so much to do while exploring the game which released a month and a half ago that's probably why gamers haven't gotten around to all the bosses. No need to rush it.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#47  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 18855 Posts

@Vaasman: Agreed, it makes as much sense as adding an "easy mode" to Umihara Kawase because someone thinks the physics are "too hard"

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TheEroica

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#48 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 20269 Posts

@davillain said:
@x_hedon said:

How about give me the option to have easy mode, and you have the option to face adversity and tons of tools? Easy mode would be purely optional. You personally would have your normal experience because you wouldn't choose easy mode.

All I can tell is just don't play that game and play something else? I'm all up for options for the player but sadly, once a game is out to the world however the developer made it cannot just alter the change how such a developer sets out to undo if a game gets a sequel that is. ER for example is Dark Souls only in open-world so despite being a new IP, it is still a Dark Souls so therefore cannot add an easy mode. ER is really easy compare to Dark Souls IMO.

@TheEroica said:

Easy mode is for losers. Play the game as intended so you get out of it what everyone gets out of it... The pure joy of accomplishing something in a video game with no one holding your hand....

I guess I am a loser. I want easy mode. I want my hand held. And my weiner.

Personally I think TheErocia was being harsh when he said "easy mode is for losers" and not every gamer is created equal nor is good/bad. Pokemon for example isn't easy as the average gamer here thinks it is. That game is really rock/paper/scissors and despite being a Poke veteran, I still make mistakes on my part even though it looks easy.

My point is, no gamer isn't perfect and if the player wants to play it easy mode, than that's okay. Just enjoy the game you want to play is all I'm saying. If the game itself doesn't have difficulty settings, just do the best you can. Even FromSoft veteran players know this and its what Rich is talking about calling out Jim on this easy mode nonsense.

You play Halo right? What difficulty you play? If its a new Halo sequel, I'll play it in Normal but on the next round playthrough, it's Legendary for me. If Halo only had Legendary with no option for the gamer, I'd be okay with this as it was meant to be play by the developer.

I am totally being harsh... lol. Mostly tongue in cheek though. Truth is most games I've played on higher difficulties seem to, by nature be a more engaging experience. I turn to the three original Mass Effects. On normal difficulty the games are quite engaging and of course being drawn into the narrative aids the feeling of wanting to move the story along, so normal feels great. That said, playing Mass Effect on insanity difficulty is a completely different feeling. You MUST know your squadmates inside and out and how they can neutralize a battle. You have to plan tactics and compliment skills.... The banshee room on the asari planet in ME3 on Insanity can't be beaten by running and gunning, where as it can on normal, well, mostly.

I don't disagree that there is a place for easy mode. Definitely is. I just was being harsh to add to the collective, NOOOO when suggesting a souls game needs one!

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x_hedon

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#49 x_hedon
Member since 2019 • 4379 Posts

@davillain: I don’t care that they don’t have an easy mode. I respect their decision. I’m just saying I would like it as an option. I bought the game knowing it didn’t.

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#50  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 10405 Posts
@lamprey263 said:

Fair to say a game like Elden Ring, despite the praise, won't be for everyone. I don't see how Jim Sterling is wrong for pointing that out.

What? That's not the message Jim is trying to convey in the video. Jim wants an easy mode, which he wrongly conflates with accessibility, and is mad that the Souls community doesn't agree. The whole point of the video is to shit on the community and paint it as anyone who doesn't want an easy mode is just a POS Git Gud elitist and even goes as far as invoking gamergate to support his weak argument. The video is just a temper tantrum from a person with an enormous ego.