Do you think Dreams will be the end of Media Molecule?

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Posted by Needhealing (2006 posts) 13 days, 8 hours ago

Poll: Do you think Dreams will be the end of Media Molecule? (63 votes)

Yes 30%
No 40%
Maybe 30%

So, MM were some of the most creative and unique developers last gen, but this time they can't seem to launch their next big project Dreams. I really have no idea what to make of it. As a big Little Big Planet fan, it seems to be wanting to be a lot of things. What I fear is that it wants to be too much but lacks depth. Honestly, nothing I've seen has blown me away and for a game with a 3+ year delay that could potentially tank in sales - I mean lets be honest, marketing for this game shows that... is there even a market for the game?

I really think that bad sales for this game will spell doom for the developer as Sony will surely end their ties or the studio might not even be able to recoup costs at all.

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#1 Posted by The-A-Baum (1009 posts) -

No of course not! Sony has never ever closed a studio ever before and never will. That is only something Evil MS does after they realize they have made a bad investment.

St. Sony is actually being considered by the Pope next year as well in case you have not heard.

In all real talk though. This studio has made them money before, so i think they will get a mulligan if the game does not do well.

Avatar image for hrt_rulz01
#2 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (17940 posts) -

Hard to say... but I know PS fanboys like Colin Moriarty has mentioned that he thinks they might close if Dreams does really poorly.

And I can't see Dreams selling well. Time will tell I guess.

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#3 Posted by robert_sparkes (1749 posts) -

I can't see the interest in it to start with looked trash.

Avatar image for KBFloYd
#4 Posted by KBFloYd (21059 posts) -

dreams is going to flop hard. like if you think nintendo labo was a flop, you aint seen nothin yet.

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams. But the innovation market is dead.

media molcule might not close though. I think their next game will be back to sackboy and littlebigplanet4.

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#5 Posted by Needhealing (2006 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

dreams is going to flop hard. like if you think nintendo labo was a flop, you aint seen nothin yet.

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams. But the innovation market is dead.

media molcule might not close though. I think their next game will be back to sackboy and littlebigplanet4.

Don't think it can flop when pretty much no one is hyping it. I think its probably the least hyped PS exclusive in a long while, I mean no one talks about it.

Avatar image for jcrame10
#6 Posted by jcrame10 (4472 posts) -

Project Spark already showed there really isn't a market for this game. I hope they do not close down (TLG took 10 years don't forget) but I don't see this game being a multi-million dollar seller if it ever comes out.

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#7 Posted by VFighter (4036 posts) -

@KBFloYd: Is it going to flop harder then your post do?

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#8 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (17940 posts) -

@needhealing said:
@KBFloYd said:

dreams is going to flop hard. like if you think nintendo labo was a flop, you aint seen nothin yet.

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams. But the innovation market is dead.

media molcule might not close though. I think their next game will be back to sackboy and littlebigplanet4.

Don't think it can flop when pretty much no one is hyping it. I think its probably the least hyped PS exclusive in a long while, I mean no one talks about it.

So is a game classed as a flop if it doesn't live up to hype, doesn't sell well or doesn't score well? Because cows seem to jump between these definitions depending on the game (usually Xbox games). Hmmm.

Avatar image for XVision84
#9 Posted by XVision84 (14452 posts) -

I don't know what to make of it. The impressions seem positive but they're hardly marketing it and I can't see it being a smash hit. I hope MM doesn't close down though because LittleBigPlanet was one of my favourite games of last gen.

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#10 Edited by robert_sparkes (1749 posts) -

They should go back and create a decent platformer. They have all the tools to nail that genre just no gimmicks. There's always a market for a platformer.

Avatar image for needhealing
#11 Posted by Needhealing (2006 posts) -

@hrt_rulz01 said:
@needhealing said:
@KBFloYd said:

dreams is going to flop hard. like if you think nintendo labo was a flop, you aint seen nothin yet.

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams. But the innovation market is dead.

media molcule might not close though. I think their next game will be back to sackboy and littlebigplanet4.

Don't think it can flop when pretty much no one is hyping it. I think its probably the least hyped PS exclusive in a long while, I mean no one talks about it.

So is a game classed as a flop if it doesn't live up to hype, doesn't sell well or doesn't score well? Because cows seem to jump between these definitions depending on the game (usually Xbox games). Hmmm.

I haven't called any xbox game a flop because 1. How many exclusives does it actually have, 2. What games desirved to be hyped?

So in the case no. Now, if you would say The Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima, etc... okay i'll give it to you.

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#12 Posted by Archangel3371 (26431 posts) -

Maybe. I don’t want any studio to get shutdown but I am completely and totally uninterested in this game and I just have a feeling that it isn’t going to sell well at all. I’ve tried the Little Big Planet games and just couldn’t get into them either.

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#13 Posted by Pedro (32033 posts) -

Sony is going to close this studio and then folks would say they weren't that good anyway. LOL

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#14 Posted by VFighter (4036 posts) -

@Pedro: They're a damn good company that puts out (mostly) niche titles, hopefully they can make a profit and stay open. If you want you can quote me on this if they do sadly get closed down.

Avatar image for ellos
#15 Edited by ellos (1703 posts) -

Yeah sony is going to close the studio with the way they operate these days. MM mistake with dreams is that there is no game or character that embodies the project. It just seams all over the place and relies on creators then normal typical consumers. They should change the title to Little big planet "3dreams" and give sackboy new adventures. Combine game, likeable character and there tools to create content equals win. Studio is saved. Sony seems to not want varieties in there profolio now days. They feel that 3rd party wise they are back to psx, ps2 days revenue. Just narrative games that sell well enough will be left.

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#16 Posted by babyjoker1221 (1255 posts) -

Sony won't close MM when Dreams fails to deliver.

They'll send MM 'The Official Sony First Party Dev Toolset'. MM next game will be a cookie cutter cinematic third person cutscene filled movie game, where the protagonist must make his way somewhere with a child or venerable sidekick in tow. Gameplay will include walking, climbing, walking, hiding in bushes, walking, running, walking again, some qte's, followed up with yet more hiding in bushes.

Cows will hype it as GOTY for eight consecutive years leading up to release.

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#17 Posted by sakaiXx (4196 posts) -

I doubt it. Media molecule is a pretty stable studio in blacks.

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#18 Edited by BassMan (9432 posts) -

I have trouble taking Dreams seriously. With so many dev tools available on PC, I just don't see the point in messing around with something like this on console. Wasn't Project Spark a flop? Dreams reminds me of it.

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#19 Edited by Vatusus (8939 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams.

1st What Dreams has to do with the Wii?

2nd lol VR is chasing the Wii now? lol wut?! Ya do know VR is a concept way older than the Wii... right?

VR is hardly "chasing" the casual crowd

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#20 Edited by 2Chalupas (6920 posts) -

I've always thought Dreams looked like a disaster in the making, but they had a pretty huge hit with LPB. I also have to admit some of the stuff they've showed off across different genres looks pretty cool, under the theory those are all actually the types of levels users will be able to create using just in-game tools. But I have never really been into the whole "level creation" game category, at least not games that rely on that as so much of a selling point. Even in Little Big Planet I saw playing the amateur/custom levels as sort of a side thing that I only spent a few hours on (basically just some of the cooler most highly recommended levels), and I never really got into level creation myself.

Even Little Big Planet 1 and 2 was mostly only interesting me for the official story mode and some of the DLC. My issue with Dreams is I still have no idea WTF they are doing on that front, since I see stuff that looks like a poor man's FPS shooter, poor man's space shooter, etc. Cool for amateur "level creation" enthusiasts I guess, not so much for someone who just wants to play a good game.

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#21 Posted by CRUSHER88 (2034 posts) -

This game has been cooking for far too long at this point. Even with the massive PS4 userbase, I don't see how they can recover the costs on this game. At the same time, Sony allowed The Order and Detroit to exist this gen. Even if Dreams bombs financially, MM will likely still exist.

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#22 Posted by RR360DD (14067 posts) -

I'd say so, the game doesn't look great.

Pretty pathetic that we haven't got one proper game from Media Molecule at all this gen. What are they up to over there

Avatar image for KBFloYd
#23 Posted by KBFloYd (21059 posts) -

@Vatusus said:
@KBFloYd said:

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams.

1st What Dreams has to do with the Wii?

2nd lol VR is chasing the Wii now? lol wut?! Ya do know VR is a concept way older than the Wii... right?

VR is hardly "chasing" the casual crowd

VR is most definitely chasing the casual wii crowds hoping for mass adoption of the device. That was sony's goal and VR in general. look at "ready player one" movie, people dream of a VR future for everyone. But after nintendo abandoned the wii people felt burned imo. that's why VR didnt take off. People were like "oh another gimmick" i am not wasting my money.

Dreams uses the PScamera and motion controls. its a straight wii ripoff. basically just continuing where wii sports left off.

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#24 Posted by Gatygun (1297 posts) -

Dreams probably will launch with the PS5, easy getting sales from people that need new content. If it would have launched this year it would have been doa tho.

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#25 Posted by SaltSlasher (529 posts) -

Sony has closed studios for less.

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#26 Posted by 2Chalupas (6920 posts) -

@CRUSHER88 said:

This game has been cooking for far too long at this point. Even with the massive PS4 userbase, I don't see how they can recover the costs on this game. At the same time, Sony allowed The Order and Detroit to exist this gen. Even if Dreams bombs financially, MM will likely still exist.

What does The Order or Detroit have to do with anything?.

Dreams seems like a game that is in some sort of development hell, like they didn't have any focus about where to go after LPB but they knew they wanted something still to do with "user generated" content like in LBP. So they are trying to build these "game creation" tools, but don't have a focus about the game they are themselves supposed to be making. Whatever they are doing, it's absurd a studio basically misses an entire generation of the console they are supposed to be supporting. They should be on their 2nd game by now. Bad leadership. They didn't have to make another LBP (and LBP was already handed off for LBP3 anyway) - but Sony should have made sure they had more focus with where they were going.

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#27 Posted by 2Chalupas (6920 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Sony is going to close this studio and then folks would say they weren't that good anyway. LOL

@vfighter said:

@Pedro: They're a damn good company that puts out (mostly) niche titles, hopefully they can make a profit and stay open. If you want you can quote me on this if they do sadly get closed down.

I mean, they have only ever created Little Big Planet and Tearaway before. 3 total games really. It's not like they have a huge track-record. Though all of the games they have developed have been quite good, great even.

Seems to me like Sony is giving them WAYYYYYY to much leeway on this one, and they might be strangling themselves with all the extra slack they've been given on the leash. Can't really blame just the studio when something like this happens, the studio head is supposed to be accountable to someone back at Sony HQ. Though clearly when a game seems to be in "development hell" the people at the top of the studio are generally to blame. It seems to me MM were overly ambitious for their "next" project from the "creation" side and lacking focus about what they are supposed to be delivering (a game!), that doesn't just happen in games. It's generally referred to as project creep.

I look at Dreams and I genuinely have no idea what they heck they are even doing. Everytime I see them touting it, it just looks like a set of dev tools for console that has been used to generate some totally random looking level of a different genre. Oh wow, your dev tools can create bad gameplay from lots of different genres and gaming styles! So now a bunch of amateurs can upload their lousy levels to playtation network. Please be excited!

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#28 Posted by Bread_or_Decide (27392 posts) -

They should have made another little big planet instead.

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#29 Posted by DocSanchez (4919 posts) -

We simply do not know enough.

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#30 Edited by Nonstop-Madness (9942 posts) -

I doubt it. The Media Molecule team isn't very large, and they definitely made a ton of money off of LittleBigPlanet (and probably still do).

https://www.mediamolecule.com/jobs/working_here - "We are a smallish 50 person development team"

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#31 Posted by ArchoNils2 (10231 posts) -

At this point I'm not sure if we will see Dreams before MM gets shut down.

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#32 Posted by scatteh316 (9952 posts) -

Depends on one thing and one thing only.... money.... if they turn a profit and sell some PS4's they'll be fine..... if they don't...well.....

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#33 Edited by xantufrog (10072 posts) -

I don't think this was ever intended to be a mass appeal game. How could it be? It has none of the qualities of big AAA blockbusters. It's got Katamari Damacy-level niche written all over it.

So with that in mind, unless the suits are looking for a reason to can MM, I don't think they would have greenlit it in the first place if thet weren't ok with an art piece "game". I'm definitely interested. I can add it to my "rare games" thread answer if nothing else :-p

*edit* I'll just add that this is the type of funky product that carries on the Sega legacy and sets PS a little apart from Xbox IMO. Thank you, Sony, for offering things like TLG and Dreams to the world if for no other reason than grasping at much needed shreds of diversity and artistry in the face of Blockbuster AAA gaming money

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#34 Posted by GarGx1 (10549 posts) -

For some middle ground on this.

I don't care and have no interest in the game.

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#35 Posted by 2Chalupas (6920 posts) -

@DocSanchez said:

We simply do not know enough.

Problem is the game has been in development since 2012-2013. That is simply too long for any game to be in development,and if they were independent they'd likely be BK by now due to not having delivered any actual work products to market since 2013's Tearaway.

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#36 Posted by kenshiro3948 (359 posts) -
@KBFloYd said:
@Vatusus said:
@KBFloYd said:

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams.

1st What Dreams has to do with the Wii?

2nd lol VR is chasing the Wii now? lol wut?! Ya do know VR is a concept way older than the Wii... right?

VR is hardly "chasing" the casual crowd

VR is most definitely chasing the casual wii crowds hoping for mass adoption of the device. That was sony's goal and VR in general. look at "ready player one" movie, people dream of a VR future for everyone. But after nintendo abandoned the wii people felt burned imo. that's why VR didnt take off. People were like "oh another gimmick" i am not wasting my money.

Dreams uses the PScamera and motion controls. its a straight wii ripoff. basically just continuing where wii sports left off.

You're on crack. PS4 is selling faster than the Wii and on its way to overtake it. Why would they be chasing the Wii?

Do you even think things through before you type? Like the other poster posted VR is a very old concept. Something Sony has been working on since the early 90s. PSVR isn't even their first VR headset yet you want to believe Sony is getting into it because of the Wii lol.

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#37 Posted by DocSanchez (4919 posts) -

@2Chalupas: A long development cycle is not evidence in itself of a bad game. If we learn that there is a reason for that, then it becomes a symptom. As it stands, it is not a symptom. We do not know enough to start debating whether the very future of media molecule is in danger.

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#38 Edited by 2Chalupas (6920 posts) -

@DocSanchez said:

@2Chalupas: A long development cycle is not evidence in itself of a bad game. If we learn that there is a reason for that, then it becomes a symptom. As it stands, it is not a symptom. We do not know enough to start debating whether the very future of media molecule is in danger.

Well yeah, I mean Rockstar games usually take about what, 5 years? Some games have a long dev cycle, and that is for a reason. But most of the time it's not a good sign, it indicates a lack of focus.

I'm not saying this game is going to be bad, just that I have my doubts such a long dev cycle will pay off. Rockstar can get away with it because their games basically print money ($6 Billion+ for GTA V). I know this game probably doesn't have a crazy Rockstar budget, but 6 year dev cycle still racks up the $$$ even with just a 50 man team. If their team is 50 they are paying 50 salaries over 6 years, do the math just on manpower alone.

Avatar image for rzxv04
#39 Posted by rzxv04 (279 posts) -

Probably.

Seems to have been cooking for so long and won't really have enough audience.

Maybe it's better off as $ 20 shovel ware for PS5 at this point.

Avatar image for lilseb93
#40 Posted by Lilseb93 (389 posts) -

Honestly I'm surprised they're still around. I thought Sony was going to close them down a while ago. But they must see something in them. We'll see. I can't say I'm excited about Dreams, but maybe with the right marketing, price, and critical success it can find an audience.

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#41 Posted by X_CAPCOM_X (8271 posts) -

Very few PS4 owners ITT. Interesting.

Avatar image for KBFloYd
#42 Edited by KBFloYd (21059 posts) -

@kenshiro3948 said:
@KBFloYd said:
@Vatusus said:
@KBFloYd said:

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams.

1st What Dreams has to do with the Wii?

2nd lol VR is chasing the Wii now? lol wut?! Ya do know VR is a concept way older than the Wii... right?

VR is hardly "chasing" the casual crowd

VR is most definitely chasing the casual wii crowds hoping for mass adoption of the device. That was sony's goal and VR in general. look at "ready player one" movie, people dream of a VR future for everyone. But after nintendo abandoned the wii people felt burned imo. that's why VR didnt take off. People were like "oh another gimmick" i am not wasting my money.

Dreams uses the PScamera and motion controls. its a straight wii ripoff. basically just continuing where wii sports left off.

You're on crack. PS4 is selling faster than the Wii and on its way to overtake it. Why would they be chasing the Wii?

Do you even think things through before you type? Like the other poster posted VR is a very old concept. Something Sony has been working on since the early 90s. PSVR isn't even their first VR headset yet you want to believe Sony is getting into it because of the Wii lol.

Sony was definitely chasing the wii. Hoping VR sets would fly off the shelves like the wii/wiimotes did. The wii was a new innovating way to play video games and caused the PS3 to fail in that gen. This time sony tried to get ahead of all that with PSVR. trying to launch the gimmick first before everyone else.

I know the PS4 might outsell the wii. the PS1 and PS2 did also. The DS also outsold the wii. We are talking about the success of innovating hardware (wiimotes/kinect/psmove/PSVR) not actual consoles. the wii was basically just a gamecube.

PSVR only sold 2 or 3 million. This because of the wii/kinect/psmove fatigue.

Avatar image for 2Chalupas
#43 Posted by 2Chalupas (6920 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:
@kenshiro3948 said:
@KBFloYd said:
@Vatusus said:
@KBFloYd said:

sony still chasing the wii. first with VR market and now with dreams.

1st What Dreams has to do with the Wii?

2nd lol VR is chasing the Wii now? lol wut?! Ya do know VR is a concept way older than the Wii... right?

VR is hardly "chasing" the casual crowd

VR is most definitely chasing the casual wii crowds hoping for mass adoption of the device. That was sony's goal and VR in general. look at "ready player one" movie, people dream of a VR future for everyone. But after nintendo abandoned the wii people felt burned imo. that's why VR didnt take off. People were like "oh another gimmick" i am not wasting my money.

Dreams uses the PScamera and motion controls. its a straight wii ripoff. basically just continuing where wii sports left off.

You're on crack. PS4 is selling faster than the Wii and on its way to overtake it. Why would they be chasing the Wii?

Do you even think things through before you type? Like the other poster posted VR is a very old concept. Something Sony has been working on since the early 90s. PSVR isn't even their first VR headset yet you want to believe Sony is getting into it because of the Wii lol.

Sony was definitely chasing the wii. Hoping VR sets would fly off the shelves like the wii/wiimotes did. The wii was a new innovating way to play video games and caused the PS3 to fail in that gen. This time sony tried to get ahead of all that with PSVR. trying to launch the gimmick first before everyone else.

I know the PS4 might outsell the wii. the PS1 and PS2 did also. The DS also outsold the wii. We are talking about the success of innovating hardware (wiimotes/kinect/psmove/PSVR) not actual consoles. the wii was basically just a gamecube.

PSVR only sold 2 or 3 million. This because of the wii/kinect/psmove fatigue.

Dude, VR has NOTHING to do with Wii, it has been a "conceptualized" thing since at least the 80's, and even Nintendo already made a much earlier rudimentary run at it with Virtual boy.

In addition, Occulus Rift I'm pretty sure was out the door and a well known project before Sony announced their more affordable version of Playstation VR. VR is what it is, I think it has a limited audience because not too many people want to wear a VR headset on their head. It is something that some people will always be skeptical about whether a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer. I'm sure I'm like many, it's something I'd like to try out but not really something I want to commit to because I know I'd probably not want to do it for long and I suspect it would make me motion sick. Now when the screens get much higher resolution, like 8K screens, maybe we'll talk.

Avatar image for KBFloYd
#44 Edited by KBFloYd (21059 posts) -

@2Chalupas said:
@KBFloYd said:
@kenshiro3948 said:
@KBFloYd said:

VR is most definitely chasing the casual wii crowds hoping for mass adoption of the device. That was sony's goal and VR in general. look at "ready player one" movie, people dream of a VR future for everyone. But after nintendo abandoned the wii people felt burned imo. that's why VR didnt take off. People were like "oh another gimmick" i am not wasting my money.

Dreams uses the PScamera and motion controls. its a straight wii ripoff. basically just continuing where wii sports left off.

You're on crack. PS4 is selling faster than the Wii and on its way to overtake it. Why would they be chasing the Wii?

Do you even think things through before you type? Like the other poster posted VR is a very old concept. Something Sony has been working on since the early 90s. PSVR isn't even their first VR headset yet you want to believe Sony is getting into it because of the Wii lol.

Sony was definitely chasing the wii. Hoping VR sets would fly off the shelves like the wii/wiimotes did. The wii was a new innovating way to play video games and caused the PS3 to fail in that gen. This time sony tried to get ahead of all that with PSVR. trying to launch the gimmick first before everyone else.

I know the PS4 might outsell the wii. the PS1 and PS2 did also. The DS also outsold the wii. We are talking about the success of innovating hardware (wiimotes/kinect/psmove/PSVR) not actual consoles. the wii was basically just a gamecube.

PSVR only sold 2 or 3 million. This because of the wii/kinect/psmove fatigue.

Dude, VR has NOTHING to do with Wii, it has been a "conceptualized" thing since at least the 80's, and even Nintendo already made a much earlier rudimentary run at it with Virtual boy.

In addition, Occulus Rift I'm pretty sure was out the door and a well known project before Sony announced their more affordable version of Playstation VR. VR is what it is, I think it has a limited audience because not too many people want to wear a VR headset on their head. It is something that some people will always be skeptical about whether a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer. I'm sure I'm like many, it's something I'd like to try out but not really something I want to commit to because I know I'd probably not want to do it for long and I suspect it would make me motion sick. Now when the screens get much higher resolution, like 8K screens, maybe we'll talk.

if wii was not a success. VR would not have launched this early in 2016. FACT

the wii crazy made everyone thirsty to find the "next big thing" in gaming.

VR was launched because of the wii.

Avatar image for blueberry_bandit
#45 Edited by Blueberry_Bandit (860 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:
@2Chalupas said:
@KBFloYd said:
@kenshiro3948 said:

You're on crack. PS4 is selling faster than the Wii and on its way to overtake it. Why would they be chasing the Wii?

Do you even think things through before you type? Like the other poster posted VR is a very old concept. Something Sony has been working on since the early 90s. PSVR isn't even their first VR headset yet you want to believe Sony is getting into it because of the Wii lol.

Sony was definitely chasing the wii. Hoping VR sets would fly off the shelves like the wii/wiimotes did. The wii was a new innovating way to play video games and caused the PS3 to fail in that gen. This time sony tried to get ahead of all that with PSVR. trying to launch the gimmick first before everyone else.

I know the PS4 might outsell the wii. the PS1 and PS2 did also. The DS also outsold the wii. We are talking about the success of innovating hardware (wiimotes/kinect/psmove/PSVR) not actual consoles. the wii was basically just a gamecube.

PSVR only sold 2 or 3 million. This because of the wii/kinect/psmove fatigue.

Dude, VR has NOTHING to do with Wii, it has been a "conceptualized" thing since at least the 80's, and even Nintendo already made a much earlier rudimentary run at it with Virtual boy.

In addition, Occulus Rift I'm pretty sure was out the door and a well known project before Sony announced their more affordable version of Playstation VR. VR is what it is, I think it has a limited audience because not too many people want to wear a VR headset on their head. It is something that some people will always be skeptical about whether a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer. I'm sure I'm like many, it's something I'd like to try out but not really something I want to commit to because I know I'd probably not want to do it for long and I suspect it would make me motion sick. Now when the screens get much higher resolution, like 8K screens, maybe we'll talk.

if wii was not a success. VR would not have launched this early in 2016. FACT

the wii crazy made everyone thirsty to find the "next big thing" in gaming.

VR was launched because of the wii.

The Wii had nothing to do with VR's resurgence. VR resurfaced because phone panels were at the resolution and cost that made consumer VR viable, in addition to tracking becoming good enough. It was an inevitability.

VR learned from the Wii's motion controls, but if you actually look at the 2011-2013 resurgence, motion controls weren't really there much. I mean even the Oculus Rift didn't have motion controllers until late 2016.