Do casuals want longer games than hardcore gamers?

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Sushiglutton

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#1 Sushiglutton  Online
Member since 2009 • 8737 Posts

The industry is moving more and more towards gaas, that is obvious. In comment sections all across the internet the reception is almost uniformly negative.

One way to explain the disconnect is that the people commenting are hardcore gamers (in lack of a better term…) and they are just a loud minority. But in the real world the casual gamers far outnumbers and outspends them.

Seems logical enough. But what I don’t get is that Gaas games are designed to be played for hundreds, if not thousands of hours. How is that appealing to ”casuals”? Why would hardcore gamers be upset by an endless Assassin’s Creed game, while casuals are excited to grind for 200 h? It feels upside down 🤔!

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sakaiXx

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#2  Edited By sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 12402 Posts

Actually how is Ass Creed a GaaS title? I have been wondering about this cause they always been consistent $60 base game + $40 season pass for many titles now. The expansions offers new areas and give a lot of play time too.

Even Nintendo do base game and sells DLC and Season Pass. Oh Ubisoft sells upgrades and powerups in store? Same as Nintendo they sells those upgrades but mask them as overpriced toys.

Do have to give a shout to Xbox. For console publishers only Xbox is consistent with their GaaS policy. The amount of DLC in various Forza Motorsport and Horizon games is terrible when you consider how their competitor GTS give free updates to maps and cars for free for years now and have million times better multiplayer modes. Then you have Fallout 76, Fallout 4 godly amount of DLC, Halo, Gears etc.

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Litchie

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#3 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts

Maybe because "hardcore gamers" aka, gamers who game a lot more than casual gamers, can see the developers bullshit much earlier than casuals can.

Hardcore gamers: "Oh, so now you want me to grind for 200 hours, and if I do, this stuff is going to happen, because that's how these games always work. I've played several similar games already so I know what to expect. So **** this game, I'm not wasting my time doing that shit when I can play several other games instead."

Casual gamer: "Wow, Destiny 2 is my favorite game ever made (from the 3 games I've ever played in my life). I'm gonna play this game for 300 hours over the span of 5 years."

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Sushiglutton

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#4 Sushiglutton  Online
Member since 2009 • 8737 Posts

@sakaixx said:

Actually how is Ass Creed a GaaS title? I have been wondering about this cause they always been consistent $60 base game + $40 season pass for many titles now. The expansions offers new areas and give a lot of play time too.

Even Nintendo do base game and sells DLC and Season Pass. Oh Ubisoft sells upgrades and powerups in store? Same as Nintendo they sells those upgrades but mask them as overpriced toys.

Do have to give a shout to Xbox. For console publishers only Xbox is consistent with their GaaS policy. The amount of DLC in various Forza Motorsport and Horizon games is terrible when you consider how their competitor GTS give free updates to maps and cars for free for years now and have million times better multiplayer modes. Then you have Fallout 76, Fallout 4 godly amount of DLC, Halo, Gears etc.

I was thinking more of the upcoming Assassin’s Creed: Infinity which was revealed like a week ago. Supposed to be a ”platform” that last several years if I understood correctly.

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Sushiglutton

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#5 Sushiglutton  Online
Member since 2009 • 8737 Posts
@Litchie said:

Maybe because "hardcore gamers" aka, gamers who game a lot more than casual gamers, can see the developers bullshit much earlier than casuals can.

Hardcore gamers: "Oh, so now you want me to grind for 200 hours, and if I do, this stuff is going to happen, because that's how these games always work. I've played several similar games already so I know what to expect. So **** this game, I'm not wasting my time doing that shit when I can play several other games instead."

Casual gamer: "Wow, Destiny 2 is my favorite game ever made (from the 3 games I've ever played in my life). I'm gonna play this game for 300 hours over the span of 5 years."

But if so shouldn’t they notice and then get something else next time? The type of game I’d imagine a casual want is either a game with no story at all (FIFA, COD multiplayer), or something short like Uncharted. What I don’t get is the appeal for these never-ending grindfests among that demographic 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Gym_Lion

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#6  Edited By Gym_Lion  Online
Member since 2020 • 1627 Posts

As long as people enjoy what they play what does it matter. Gaming is big enough to cater for both.

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simple-facts

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#7 simple-facts
Member since 2021 • 228 Posts

How many hours per day have you got to game to be called a hardcore gamer?

As far as I'm concerned someone with every system and regularly uses all of them is a hardcore gamer.

Having one system and using that one system for 10 hours per day makes you a gamer with limited options

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GoldenElementXL

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#8 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 5990 Posts

Some of you need to swap your definitions of hardcore and casual.

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VFighter

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#9 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 9049 Posts

@gym_lion: Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

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#10  Edited By Djoffer123
Member since 2016 • 1125 Posts

Isn’t the main reason why gaas games are so popular because of kids who have unlimited play time and very limited money?

Most of what you call hardcore gamers is probably just bitter adults who have a very limited playtime, hence wasting 200 hours on destiny 2 to get a slight upgrade isn’t worth it..

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TheEroica

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#11 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 19372 Posts

My answer to this question is simply, "people who play video games don't want to feel as though their time has been taken for granted."

Don't really know what the dividing line is between core and casual, but I know that games that feel long and bloated don't feel good to anyone.

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lamprey263

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#12 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 39666 Posts

I don't mind GaaS when done right, but most suck at it.

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#13  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 7664 Posts
@djoffer123 said:

Isn’t the main reason why gaas games are so popular because of kids who have unlimited play time and very limited money?

Most of what you call hardcore gamers is probably just bitter adults who have a very limited playtime, hence wasting 200 hours on destiny 2 to get a slight upgrade isn’t worth it..

You pretty much nailed it here. Also from the publisher side gass games are most likely easier develop you don't need much of a story mode if any and you don't have create many new assets over time alot of trash gets recycled. Then there's the case of whales a publishers wet dream.

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rmiller365

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#15 rmiller365
Member since 2010 • 1174 Posts

Personally, if I see a Gaas title, it's an auto pass for me, because the time investment isn't worth it. You never "beat" the game, just dump time into it and grind XP/loot to avoid paying more money to speed up the leveling process. It's not fun for me. I like having a structured beginning, middle, and end to the game and then move on to a new experience.

But the thing is, gaming has changed. More people play games both hardcore and casually than ever before. Corporations know this, and it's much more profitable to keep gamers playing the same game with micro-transactions over and over than to actually make something new. Since gaming isn't niche anymore, the goal is to hit as wide a range target market and milk that product as much as possible before it dies.

It's like Marvel movies. They're mass market, profitable, and a dime a dozen. Most audiences will say "it's a great popcorn flick!" And love it. To alot of film buffs though, it's shallow, predictable, and manufactured. They yearn for a movie with a deeper meaning and production behind it, and for a corporation, it's more profitable and easier to make the shallow popcorn flick.

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Litchie

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#16  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts
@goldenelementxl said:

Some of you need to swap your definitions of hardcore and casual.

Acting like there's a true definition of hardcore and casual gamers is silly in the first place. To me, a "hardcore gamer" (a term I never use outside of this forum) is someone who plays games a lot. That's it. He can play the same game over and over, or many different games. He just has to play a lot and be passionate about it.

A casual gamer is a person who plays less. Someone who doesn't really care as much for what they play, and play a game whenever it would be fun to them, which isn't too often, or with too many games.

As my first post implied, someone who recognizes how a game will be before long has played many games before, and jumps from game to game, and would be a "hardcore gamer" to me.

Someone who only plays Destiny 2 for 300 hours over the span of 5 years (aka doesn't play much at all) would be a casual gamer.

Not sure who your post was aimed at, but if it was me, here's this post.

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mrbojangles25

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#17 mrbojangles25  Online
Member since 2005 • 50539 Posts

I don't know if I would call myself a "hardcore" gamer--I don't have thousands of hours in any one game like some people do, I don't stream CoD or do hardcore mythic dungeons in WoW or anything--but I do consider myself a gaming enthusiast, and by that I mean that I care a lot about games and outside of one or two other hobbies, gaming is pretty much my one source of entertainment.

With that said, I like shorter games. And longer ones. What's that mean?

For linear games, I like them to end. I don't really like open-world games too much these days in the current form. I don't mind the game worlds themselves but the overall endless nature of them is tedious. I would like them to be over with in 40 hours or less. The Outer Worlds did it right imo; instanced worlds that are big enough to explore, but not big enough to g et boring. I gave up on AC Valhalla; I rushed through Cyberpunk 2077 towards the end; and Days Gone couldn't keep me satisfied for more than five hours.

For my longer games, I want sandbox. Games like Factorio, Cities Skylines, Dyson Sphere Program....these kinds of games are essentially endless and have no point, and I am OK with that. They're more an exercise in creation and freeform design and art than any sense of "winning" so in a sense having a determined length defeats the purpose.

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#18  Edited By mrbojangles25  Online
Member since 2005 • 50539 Posts
@simple-facts said:

How many hours per day have you got to game to be called a hardcore gamer?

As far as I'm concerned someone with every system and regularly uses all of them is a hardcore gamer.

Having one system and using that one system for 10 hours per day makes you a gamer with limited options

I don't think it's really an hours per day thing, I think it's about how serious you are about the hobby. I don't think those streamers that play CoD Warzone are really hardcore unless you want to call them hardcore casual; most of them don't really know shit about gaming from what I've seen.

I think to be hardcore you need to be well-versed in all manner of genres and have an appreciation for all kinds of games; experience is not inherently critical, but exposure is. You need to respect games, game development, appreciate the differences between AAA and independent development and such, and so on.

A "hardcore gamer", to me at least, should be able to act as an ambassador of gaming, in other words. If a non-gamer comes up to you and says "Hey, so what's all this I hear about a game called Half-Life" a hardcore gamer would be able to tell them the basic gist of why it's such a great game and important, just to use an example. Insert Final Fantasy 7, Ocarina of Time, etc. or whatever.

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clone01

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#19 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29011 Posts

I think it just comes down to quality of gameplay, hardcore or casual.

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GoldenElementXL

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#20 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 5990 Posts

@Litchie: My post wasn’t specifically aimed at you, but I do disagree with some of your points. A person that only plays Destiny 2 may be better at that one game than your “hardcore gamer” is at any of the games they play.

The definitions on this board are out of touch. The industry has been aiming at the “casual” gamer for decades now. Why? They spend more money. This boards “hardcore” should actually be labeled as “niche.” I would argue the Twitch watching/streaming, Gfuel drinking, eSports watching gamer is actually the “hardcore” gamer

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Litchie

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#21  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts
@goldenelementxl said:

@Litchie: My post wasn’t specifically aimed at you, but I do disagree with some of your points. A person that only plays Destiny 2 may be better at that one game than your “hardcore gamer” is at any of the games they play.

Very true. But my example is a person who doesn't play the game much, by my standards of "much" and is probably not very good at it as a result, or other FPSs. Hence, a "casual gamer". The other plays many games for a long time, and is good at many of them as a result, making him a "hardcore gamer". In my eyes.

@goldenelementxl said:

@Litchie: The definitions on this board are out of touch. The industry has been aiming at the “casual” gamer for decades now. Why? They spend more money.

Absolutely. Not sure who argued otherwise though.

@goldenelementxl said:

@Litchie: This boards “hardcore” should actually be labeled as “niche.” I would argue the Twitch watching/streaming, Gfuel drinking, eSports watching gamer is actually the “hardcore” gamer

Yes, also true. The "hardcore" gamers we have here are in the minority when speaking of all gamers. Regarding Gfuel drinking Twitch nuts and them being called hardcore gamers? No, not unless they play games a lot. Otherwise they should be called "hardcore gamingstream watchers".

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Nonstop-Madness

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#22 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 10801 Posts

It's all about the ability to pick up and play and, respecting people's time.

It's better for most to get in a few games of Warzone than grinding some AC side missions.

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Jag85

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#23 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 15788 Posts

If you spend a lot of time on video games, then you're a hardcore gamer. Regardless of what you play.

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#24 Robbie23  Online
Member since 2015 • 1449 Posts

I have been playing games all my life, but dislike gaas titles. I like Single player games which have good narratives and do not mind if they do not have end game content.

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Pedro

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#25 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 52568 Posts

The MMO formula raked in billions and the transition to MMO formula shouldn't come as a surprise. Developers go where the money is at.

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shadyacshuns

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#26  Edited By shadyacshuns
Member since 2007 • 6644 Posts

Most of the people I've encountered on GaaS titles like Destiny 2, for instance, only play Destiny 2 full time. That makes them casual gamers, but hardcore Destiny 2 players.

Same goes for Rocket League. People get caught up in these games and have a hard time doing anything else, like a gambling addiction.

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#27 Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 684 Posts

@shadyacshuns: It’s like a social media app for people.

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Sushiglutton

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#28  Edited By Sushiglutton  Online
Member since 2009 • 8737 Posts
@shadyacshuns said:

Most of the people I've encountered on GaaS titles like Destiny 2, for instance, only play Destiny 2 full time. That makes them casual gamers, but hardcore Destiny 2 players.

Same goes for Rocket League. People get caught up in these games and have a hard time doing anything else, like a gambling addiction.

That’s interesting 🤔. Maybe people commenting on articles/videos do not play more hours, but a greater variety of titles. That is the key difference. If you only play Destiny, why would you care about gaming news? This explanation makes sense to me!

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#29 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 13896 Posts

Casuals want longer games? Maybe that's why they put Todd Howard in Fortnite recently

I thought it was a weird choice but kinda makes sense now

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#30  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

Time does not equate to depth or challenge.

Most time sync games have little to no challenge other than attempting to waste your time with artificial barriers.

It's like working in a factory line for 18 hour shifts doing menial labour as opposed to rocket science.

They want to psychologically manipulate people to force and frustrate them into dropping money using a hook to keep them engaged.

The challenge, if you want to call it that, is grind they create.

This is why GaaS is just, a big pile of shit, pushed by cunts.

The publisher decides what's best in advance for them and in turn tries to normalize it to make it seem like it's what the consumer wants.

A good example being preorder DLC people actually think is a "bonus". As opposed to "buy now, or we segment to up the price".

You have dumbo game media presenting it as such and never, at any point anywhere, calling it out for what it is.

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R4gn4r0k

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#31 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 37818 Posts

Playing a GAAS is like a job.

These games end up taking so much time, and they offer you so many ways to skip the grind.

The GAAS market will eat up itself. There are only so many games people can play at a time.

Anthem, Marvel Avengers, Outriders... all games that tried cloning a formula that worked. All failed.

Meanwhile singleplayer games will continue to sell just fine, like they always do.

Nintendo, Sony, AA developers and indies are catering to that market.

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#32  Edited By Gym_Lion  Online
Member since 2020 • 1627 Posts
@R4gn4r0k said:

Playing a GAAS is like a job.

These games end up taking so much time, and they offer you so many ways to skip the grind.

The GAAS market will eat up itself. There are only so many games people can play at a time.

Anthem, Marvel Avengers, Outriders... all games that tried cloning a formula that worked. All failed.

Meanwhile singleplayer games will continue to sell just fine, like they always do.

Nintendo, Sony, AA developers and indies are catering to that market.

Some SP game involve plenty of grinding as well.

And Outriders was not a GaaS. I think GaaS has come to mean any MP game.

Personally I can happily play a story driven SP like Yakuza LaD or play Destiny 2 with my friends online.

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#33 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 37818 Posts

@gym_lion said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

Playing a GAAS is like a job.

These games end up taking so much time, and they offer you so many ways to skip the grind.

The GAAS market will eat up itself. There are only so many games people can play at a time.

Anthem, Marvel Avengers, Outriders... all games that tried cloning a formula that worked. All failed.

Meanwhile singleplayer games will continue to sell just fine, like they always do.

Nintendo, Sony, AA developers and indies are catering to that market.

Some SP game involve plenty of grinding as well.

And Outriders was not a GaaS. I think GaaS has come to mean any MP game.

Personally I can happily play a story driven SP like Yakuza LaD or play Destiny 2 with my friends online.

No the point was about how many GAAS you can play at a time.

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#34 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 4414 Posts

Most game developers use low quality, mass produced, RNG or even procedurally generated garbage content in order to artificially inflate the number of hours it takes to play a game, and this usually pushes them well beyond the limits of my attention span. Give me a short game with good content over a long, drawn out one with a lot of tedium any day.