Digital Foundry Xbox One X Game Analysis Thread! (Sticky Please!)

Avatar image for scatteh316
#501 Posted by scatteh316 (8772 posts) -

@RR360DD said:

This thread is boring now. Can we get the sticky removed please

^^ Agreed

Avatar image for tdkmillsy
#502 Posted by tdkmillsy (2775 posts) -

Its not being used for its purpose (other threads being created) so might as well remove sticky

Avatar image for goldenelementxl
#503 Posted by GoldenElementXL (2034 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:
@goldenelementxl said:

@MBirdy88: Streamed 4K content isn’t that impressive. Most review publications put it on par with normal bluray quality. 4K bluray is by far the most impressive use of the Tvs.

Source? Because 4K streaming looks considerably better than 1080p streaming..

I have no doubt that something store on physical media is better, it's simple logic, but, hell no... 4k Stream is not 1080p Blu Ray quality, that is utter BS.

Still doesn't change the current situation in anyway. by the time 4K Blu Ray (if it every becomes more than an HI-FI enthusiast NICHE anytime this century) is common enough to be useful, the PS5/XB2 will be out, its an absolute Miniscule advantage in 2017/2018.

Yes, 4K looks better than 1080p streaming, but all streaming is subject to the same compression and low bitrates. The 4K streaming bitrates and 1080p bluray are pretty similar. And I didn't compare 4K and 1080p streaming, but 4K streaming and disk based 1080p content.

- With 4K streaming and 1080p Blu-rays almost neck-and-neck: slightly greater resolution and sharpness of the streaming versus greater subtlety in colours and contrast on the Blu-ray, we look at 4K on disc. This is an entirely different matter. The video quality of a UHD Blu-ray (played on Panasonic's excellent DMP-UB900 Ultra HD Blu-ray player) is leaps and bounds over 4K streaming and regular Blu-ray.

- "The results can look pretty impressive and can look a little better than 1080p Blu-ray Disc, but still doesn't quite match the quality you can get off of a physical 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc."

Sound quality is another negative of streaming vs physical.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#504 Posted by Xabiss (1795 posts) -

All I see in this thread are a ton of pathetic cows sad about losing the power war. Fanboys are pathetic.

Avatar image for drlostrib
#505 Posted by DrLostRib (4047 posts) -

@Xabiss said:

All I see in this thread are a ton of pathetic cows sad about losing the power war. Fanboys are pathetic.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#506 Edited by Xabiss (1795 posts) -

@drlostrib said:
@Xabiss said:

All I see in this thread are a ton of pathetic cows sad about losing the power war. Fanboys are pathetic.

Avatar image for drlostrib
#507 Posted by DrLostRib (4047 posts) -
Loading Video...

Avatar image for jtothamtothap
#508 Posted by JtoThaMtoThaP (953 posts) -

It's cool to see the X1X improvements to 360 games....Skate 3 at native 4K!

Avatar image for davillain-
#509 Edited by DaVillain- (30125 posts) -

I gotta say, those are some pretty good improvements on the Xbox 360 games resolutions for Xbox One X capabilities. Halo 3 maybe 10 years old, that's quite an improvement to what the Xbox One X can provide.

DF needs to test Mass Effect Trilogy on Xbox One X if there's any improvements, especially the first Mass Effect game cause that game didn't aged well.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#510 Posted by Xabiss (1795 posts) -

@davillain- said:

I gotta say, those are some pretty good improvements on the Xbox 360 games resolutions for Xbox One X capabilities. Halo 3 maybe 10 years old, that's quite an improvement to what the Xbox One X can provide.

DF needs to test Mass Effect Trilogy on Xbox One X if there's any improvements, especially the first Mass Effect game cause that game didn't aged well.

It is pretty cool that developers are doing these enhancements. Just shows how easy it is to update your old games to Xbox One X enhanced games.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#511 Posted by scatteh316 (8772 posts) -

Just a shame that Cell and the Emotion Engine were custom chips as it's making emulating PS2/PS3 games nigh on impossible on PS4's CPU.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#512 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@scatteh316 said:

Just a shame that Cell and the Emotion Engine were custom chips as it's making emulating PS2/PS3 games nigh on impossible on PS4's CPU.

Would it really be that hard? Weren't both PS3 and 360 CPU's power pc chips?

Avatar image for Alucard_Prime
#513 Posted by Alucard_Prime (9407 posts) -

Their Hitman analysis is out, summary is :

Native 4K with improved visuals or 1440p with a target 60fps - the choice is yours.

Avatar image for Alucard_Prime
#514 Posted by Alucard_Prime (9407 posts) -

More details here.....they talk about frame rates later and it sounds like it holds up well overall:

"This upgrade follows the proud tradition set by Io with the PS4 Pro patch, which introduced improved performance, a 1440p resolution bump and a little while later, full HDR support. It was a great enhancement to an excellent game, but the Xbox One X title update takes thing even further and the result is one of the most impressive upgrades we've seen yet for the new system.

It starts with the resolution options. Hitman now offers two options that determine image quality - a high quality mode and a high frame-rate mode. The former renders out the game at a full, native 4K, with a subtle pass of temporal anti-aliasing on top. The high performance mode targets 60fps, but does so with a 1440p resolution as opposed to the standard 1080p deployed in similar modes in Rise of the Tomb Raider and Gears of War 4.

It's the quality mode we prefer. Hitman is an absurdly detailed game and the jump to native 4K makes a huge difference in terms of overall clarity. It's not just about resolution though - this game is rich in incidental detail, right down to lavishly modelled soda cans. Paired with native ultra HD, it's a remarkably beautiful game. Hitman also uses parallax occlusion mapping more than any other title we've seen, giving an extra dimension to otherwise flat surfaces. Rounding off the upgrades, texture filtering is also amped up, enabling sharper surface detail at a distance while shadow quality is further enhanced.

"

Avatar image for scatteh316
#515 Posted by scatteh316 (8772 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@scatteh316 said:

Just a shame that Cell and the Emotion Engine were custom chips as it's making emulating PS2/PS3 games nigh on impossible on PS4's CPU.

Would it really be that hard? Weren't both PS3 and 360 CPU's power pc chips?

Yes it would..... And only one of Cells cores was PPC......

Avatar image for scatteh316
#516 Posted by scatteh316 (8772 posts) -

@Alucard_Prime said:

Their Hitman analysis is out, summary is :

Native 4K with improved visuals or 1440p with a target 60fps - the choice is yours.

X is offering the same performance as an RX580 in this game.....

Avatar image for NFJSupreme
#517 Posted by NFJSupreme (6587 posts) -

Mods must be cows

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#518 Edited by ronvalencia (26060 posts) -

For comparison.

1070 (15 SM or 30 CU equivalent at 1683Mhz, 2MB L2 cache for TMU and RBE/ROPS) has 6.5 TFLOPS. 5 G triangles per second.

X1X (40 CU at 1172 Mhz, 2MB L2 cache with TMU, 2MB render cache RBE/ROPS) has 6.0 TFLOPS. 4.68 G triangles per second.

R9-390 (40 CU at 1050 Mhz, 1MB L2 cache with TMU) has 5.376 TFLOPS. 4.2 G triangles per second

RX-480 (36 CU at 1266 Mhz, 2MB L2 cache with TMU) has 5.83 TFLOPS. 5 G triangles per second

With non-reference GPU cards.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#519 Edited by ronvalencia (26060 posts) -

@scatteh316 said:

Just a shame that Cell and the Emotion Engine were custom chips as it's making emulating PS2/PS3 games nigh on impossible on PS4's CPU.

PS4 is already emulating PS2 and it's just Sony's price policy problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_2_games_for_PlayStation_4

This is a list of PlayStation 2 games for PlayStation 4 available from the PlayStation Store. These are the original games, emulated at high-definition with the addition of PlayStation 4 features such as Trophies, Remote Play and Share Play.[1]

There are currently 67 games on this list

Avatar image for drlostrib
#520 Posted by DrLostRib (4047 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

How old is that benchmark?

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#521 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@scatteh316 said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@scatteh316 said:

Just a shame that Cell and the Emotion Engine were custom chips as it's making emulating PS2/PS3 games nigh on impossible on PS4's CPU.

Would it really be that hard? Weren't both PS3 and 360 CPU's power pc chips?

Yes it would..... And only one of Cells cores was PPC......

I always thought it was a single PPC Core that had access to SPE's. Most multiplatform games ran slightly worse on PS3 because the game would run on just the PPC core, like it did on 360, and wouldn't take advantage of the SPE's. I'm sure they can make it happen, but it just might not perform as well.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#522 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@drlostrib said:
@ronvalencia said:

How old is that benchmark?

Was going to ask the same!

Here's a more up to date one:

At highest settings no less.

source: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/76355-nvidia-gtx-1070-ti-performance-review-14.html

Avatar image for quadknight
#523 Posted by QuadKnight (11743 posts) -

@Zero_epyon: Ron loves to post outdated charts from his ass.

Avatar image for drlostrib
#524 Edited by DrLostRib (4047 posts) -

@quadknight said:

@Zero_epyon: Ron loves to post outdated charts from his ass.

he must have had to search for that one

Avatar image for GameboyTroy
#525 Posted by GameboyTroy (8987 posts) -

@NFJSupreme said:

Mods must be cows

Some of the mods here are lems, some are sheep, some are PC fans, and some mods don't seem to clearly favour a system. For some reason it's hard to know which mods are cows. Why is it hard to know which of the mods here are cows?

Avatar image for scatteh316
#526 Posted by scatteh316 (8772 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@scatteh316 said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@scatteh316 said:

Just a shame that Cell and the Emotion Engine were custom chips as it's making emulating PS2/PS3 games nigh on impossible on PS4's CPU.

Would it really be that hard? Weren't both PS3 and 360 CPU's power pc chips?

Yes it would..... And only one of Cells cores was PPC......

I always thought it was a single PPC Core that had access to SPE's. Most multiplatform games ran slightly worse on PS3 because the game would run on just the PPC core, like it did on 360, and wouldn't take advantage of the SPE's. I'm sure they can make it happen, but it just might not perform as well.

SPE could be programmed and run independently from the PPC core in Cell, one of the big problems is the EIB ring that connects the SPE's, that bus has 300Gb/s bandwidth which is one of the area's that modern CPU's struggle as they can't pass data round that fast.

Avatar image for scatteh316
#527 Edited by scatteh316 (8772 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

Could you of picked a more outdated and cherry picked chart from your ass....

On latest drivers and at HIGHER QUALITY settings the GTX1070 smashes X.....

If you look at the latest reviews X is performing between an RX480 and RX580.

Avatar image for tdkmillsy
#528 Edited by tdkmillsy (2775 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@drlostrib said:
@ronvalencia said:

How old is that benchmark?

Was going to ask the same!

Here's a more up to date one:

At highest settings no less.

source: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/76355-nvidia-gtx-1070-ti-performance-review-14.html

Running with Intel i7 6900X @ 4.6GHz CPU and SSD costing a pretty penny.

You spend your money you will get more performance no brainer really.

Hitman on PC has had a year to improve, the Xbox One X has just come out.

Comparing PS4 Pro to X is easy as is a define set of hardware.

Comparing console to PC just leads to constant tit for tat on which benchmarks are correct. You have to admit it must be getting boring to all.

I'm all for rubbing it in to cows but even that's getting dull now. Can we agree to disagree or at least agree on some vague summary.

Games (with the odd exception) will look better on the X than the Pro, some times a little some times a lot.

Games will look better on PC which usually costs more (but maybe not by much these days), some times they look a lot better sometimes they don't look much better at all.

You cant compare the X (or any console for that matter) to a specific GPU.

Hitman looks awesome on the X, never played the game but very nice in the graphics department.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#529 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@drlostrib said:
@ronvalencia said:

How old is that benchmark?

Was going to ask the same!

Here's a more up to date one:

At highest settings no less.

source: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/76355-nvidia-gtx-1070-ti-performance-review-14.html

Running with Intel i7 6900X @ 4.6GHz CPU and SSD costing a pretty penny.

You spend your money you will get more performance no brainer really.

Hitman on PC has had a year to improve, the Xbox One X has just come out.

Comparing PS4 Pro to X is easy as is a define set of hardware.

Comparing console to PC just leads to constant tit for tat on which benchmarks are correct. You have to admit it must be getting boring to all.

I'm all for rubbing it in to cows but even that's getting dull now. Can we agree to disagree or at least agree on some vague summary.

Games (with the odd exception) will look better on the X than the Pro, some times a little some times a lot.

Games will look better on PC which usually costs more (but maybe not by much these days), some times they look a lot better sometimes they don't look much better at all.

You cant compare the X (or any console for that matter) to a specific GPU.

Hitman looks awesome on the X, never played the game but very nice in the graphics department.

None of that is the point though. The point is, Ron was trying to use old benchmarks from a year ago and comparing it to the most up to date version of the game on consoles. Then, based on that, tried to imply that the Xbox One X is on par with a system running a 1070 with that cpu and hard drive. It's simply not true. Not only does the 1070 out perform the X's GPU, it does it while using much higher and more demanding settings. If you take a look at the comparison video, DF test areas that are gpu bound vs cpu bound. The gpu bound parts never get above the high 30's while the 1070 averages 10+ fps while using higher settings.

The X is comparable to an rx 580 at best, and that's actually pretty good. I don't know why he's obsessed with making the X be on par with a 1070.

Avatar image for NFJSupreme
#530 Posted by NFJSupreme (6587 posts) -

@GameboyTroy:

I just remember thread after thread of df comparison threads when Playstation was winning so I find it funny to come back here for some system wars shenanigans and find all the comparison threads being funneled to one sticky. Out of site out of mind lol

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#531 Edited by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@NFJSupreme said:

@GameboyTroy:

I just remember thread after thread of df comparison threads when Playstation was winning so I find it funny to come back here for some system wars shenanigans and find all the comparison threads being funneled to one sticky. Out of site out of mind lol

Back then there was a thread per game release and at the time DF was a small shop and wouldn't release daily videos. When this thread was created, DF released three comparison videos in one day. The following day was two and it's been one everyday since then. I hope you see the difference.

Once these comparisons slow down, I'm sure there will be no issue making separate threads. In fact, I think it's almost time that happened since they appear to have slowed down to one comparison every other day.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#532 Posted by ronvalencia (26060 posts) -

https://wccftech.com/warhammer-vermintide-native-4k-xb1x/

Producer Robert Bäckström said:

Yes, the Xbox One X Enhanced version is available now in the Xbox One store. It has native 4K render support, improved aliasing and shadow casting, more detailed textures and a sharper image for an improved visual look. The stronger CPU power allows us to run the game in a more consistent framerate for a smoother game experience

...

It is still pending but it is in our pipe for a not too distant release. Details are still being finalized, but our target resolution on PlayStation 4 Pro is native 1440P.

.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#533 Edited by ronvalencia (26060 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@drlostrib said:
@ronvalencia said:

How old is that benchmark?

Was going to ask the same!

Here's a more up to date one:

At highest settings no less.

source: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/76355-nvidia-gtx-1070-ti-performance-review-14.html

https://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/10/nvidia-driver-378-78-big-directx12-improvements/

NVIDIA's large Hitman driver improvements arrived at March 10, 2017 via 378.78.

Vega 64 was released on August 14, 2017, hence why I posted Vega 64 era results.

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/amd_rx_vega_64_and_vega_56_review/12

----------------

For GTX 1070 Ti era from overclock3d.net's results

From https://overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/nvidia_gtx_1070_ti_founders_edition_review/8

Try again.

Avatar image for Xplode_games
#534 Posted by Xplode_games (1821 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:

Its not being used for its purpose (other threads being created) so might as well remove sticky

It's being used for damage control. If not, can someone explain to me why there was never a sticky for all of the years since the PS4 and Xbox One launched? The Xbox One X has not even been out for one month and they have to protect the cows from ownage. It's pathetic bias.

Avatar image for uitravioience
#535 Posted by UItravioIence (996 posts) -

Today I'm thankful for biased mods. Even if some people around here arent.

Avatar image for davillain-
#536 Posted by DaVillain- (30125 posts) -

@Xplode_games said:
@tdkmillsy said:

Its not being used for its purpose (other threads being created) so might as well remove sticky

It's being used for damage control. If not, can someone explain to me why there was never a sticky for all of the years since the PS4 and Xbox One launched? The Xbox One X has not even been out for one month and they have to protect the cows from ownage. It's pathetic bias.

What do you mean it's for "protect cows from ownage"?

The sticky was to prevent Cows from making numerous DF threads from the start ever since X1X arrival. And DF wasn't around when both PS4/Xbox One launch to even ask for a sticky back then. I will say DF PS4 Pro/X1X has died down so yeah, it's time to un-sticky this thread soon.

And you say it's used for damage control lol. Who you trying to kid here?

Avatar image for Jebus213
#537 Edited by Jebus213 (10016 posts) -

Am I supposed to be impressed by 6-10+ year old games running at native 4k and 16x Anisotropic filtering on the X1X?

Avatar image for vennyshy2
#538 Posted by vennyshy2 (2 posts) -

hi guys please i dont know my way around here.

Avatar image for Antwan3K
#539 Edited by Antwan3K (4229 posts) -

@Jebus213: It's quite telling when a free, logical, and surprising 4K upgrade for 360 games on the One X garners a response of "why should i be impressed with that?" versus "oh cool, that's a nice bonus"..

Avatar image for poptart
#540 Edited by poptart (7130 posts) -

@Jebus213 said:

Am I supposed to be impressed by 6-10+ year old games running at native 4k and 16x Anisotropic filtering on the X1X?

Of course not. Its like when you order an Indian and they've thrown in a free naan which you didn't ask for and think 'oh that's nice isn't it'

EDIT - what the chap above me said basically.

Avatar image for indzman
#541 Edited by indzman (27735 posts) -

@poptart said:
@Jebus213 said:

Am I supposed to be impressed by 6-10+ year old games running at native 4k and 16x Anisotropic filtering on the X1X?

Of course not. Its like when you order an Indian and they've thrown in a free naan which you didn't ask for and think 'oh that's nice isn't it'

EDIT - what the chap above me said basically.

<:3

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#542 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@ronvalencia: What was any of that supposed to prove? 1070 outperforms Xbox One X with higher settings and probably without using half rate animations.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#543 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -
Loading Video...

Temporal Reconstructed dynamic 4K vs PS4 Checkerboard. Better geometry than Pro.

Performance drops lower and more frequently than Pro. Gets screen tears.

IW sucks anyway.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#545 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@nintendoges said:
@Zero_epyon said:
Loading Video...

Temporal Reconstructed dynamic 4K vs PS4 Checkerboard. Better geometry than Pro.

Performance drops lower and more frequently than Pro. Gets screen tears.

IW sucks anyway.

It's not temporal reconstruction, how did you even come up with that? It's raw rendering with a dynamic scaler that operates at double the Pro's raw render resolution. Also better LoD and DoF on top of the geometry improvement.

They also curiously only analysed the single player, the smallest portion of the game, the least played and the most demanding. It likely operates perfectly in multiplayer. With the scaler being set to a more aggressive level it would fix the single player performance.

The game needs a hotfix.

Shoot! My apologies. You're right he said without temporal reconstruction. Sorry about that.

Avatar image for Epak_
#546 Posted by Epak_ (10294 posts) -

Been playing some GeoW3 and Mirror's Edge, really nice. I wish RDR got the same treatment along with Bayonetta, Witcher 2 and some other gems of that generation.

Avatar image for Zero_epyon
#548 Posted by Zero_epyon (12400 posts) -

@nintendoges said:

Can this sticky please be pulled down, it's completely killing discussion potential. No one bothers with stickies because it's a sea of sub-topics.

At this point I agree. The frequency of DF Xbox One X videos has gone down enough.

Avatar image for davillain-
#549 Posted by DaVillain- (30125 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@nintendoges said:

Can this sticky please be pulled down, it's completely killing discussion potential. No one bothers with stickies because it's a sea of sub-topics.

At this point I agree. The frequency of DF Xbox One X videos has gone down enough.

Why not ask one of the mods to un-sticky this?

Avatar image for EG101
#550 Posted by EG101 (1829 posts) -

@Xplode_games said:
@tdkmillsy said:

Its not being used for its purpose (other threads being created) so might as well remove sticky

It's being used for damage control. If not, can someone explain to me why there was never a sticky for all of the years since the PS4 and Xbox One launched? The Xbox One X has not even been out for one month and they have to protect the cows from ownage. It's pathetic bias.

Yup there NEVER was a sticky for DF Threads for the PS4 and Xbox One because Play Station was owning Xbox One HW. This is yet another reason this place' nickname is Cow Spot.