Digital Foundry : we've heard from multiple developers that Xbox Series S is a bit of a pain at times

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mowgly1

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#1 mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 2633 Posts

Timestamped :

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Pedro

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#2 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 59681 Posts

Meltdown 7.0🤣😂

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mowgly1

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#3 mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 2633 Posts

@Pedro said:

Meltdown 7.0🤣😂

Looks like it bothers you that devs don't like XSS. I'm happy about it.

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Pedro

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#4 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 59681 Posts

@mowgly1: Seems like it is more of a concern to you since you created the thread.😂

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Bryank75

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#5 Bryank75
Member since 2021 • 17 Posts

If you think Series S is anything but a dressed up last gen console.... then you are a fool.

The GPU is weaker than the One X and that is last gen. That means it is last gen.

This thing shouldnt even be counted towards next gen systems. Just add it to the XBone tally.

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x_hedon

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#6 x_hedon
Member since 2019 • 5042 Posts

@bryank75 said:

If you think Series S is anything but a dressed up last gen console.... then you are a fool.

The GPU is weaker than the One X and that is last gen. That means it is last gen.

This thing shouldnt even be counted towards next gen systems. Just add it to the XBone tally.

And it has next gen memory, next gen CPU, next gen storage, next gen loading, next gen 120fps, next gen games…..

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mowgly1

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#7  Edited By mowgly1
Member since 2017 • 2633 Posts
@x_hedon said:
@bryank75 said:

If you think Series S is anything but a dressed up last gen console.... then you are a fool.

The GPU is weaker than the One X and that is last gen. That means it is last gen.

This thing shouldnt even be counted towards next gen systems. Just add it to the XBone tally.

And it has next gen memory, next gen CPU, next gen storage, next gen loading, next gen 120fps, next gen games…..

Which next-gen memory? You mean RAM?

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BassMan

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#8 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 15520 Posts

I have been saying this since the beginning. XSS is shit and a burden for developers.

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firedrakes

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#9 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 3882 Posts

@BassMan said:

I have been saying this since the beginning. XSS is shit and a burden for developers.

i mean .

want true next gen gaming.. console are a burden for devs... got to support old tech...

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blaznwiipspman1

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#10 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 12806 Posts

@Pedro: the cows are on a roll today

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pyro1245

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#11 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 8693 Posts

Yeah but AAA games with fancy gfx are usually boring AF anyway. 4K and fancy graphics are a burden on fun.

Maybe they should just focus on making fun games instead.

@bryank75 said:

If you think Series S is anything but a dressed up last gen console.... then you are a fool.

The GPU is weaker than the One X and that is last gen. That means it is last gen.

This thing shouldnt even be counted towards next gen systems. Just add it to the XBone tally.

That's nonsense. I wish last-gen consoles had the same specs as the Series S (compare the CPU specs). Maybe then last gen would not have been such a bottom-tier shit show in terms of performance.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#12 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 12806 Posts

@BassMan: lmao, you keep singing the same tune. According to you PC devs should tell all the people who bought entry level gpus to **** off and just make games for the radeon 6800xt and above, because people who bought those geforce 3050tis like me are holding back pc gaming for the elitists. Jeez its like some new kind of gpu racism 🤣

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BassMan

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#13  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 15520 Posts
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@BassMan: lmao, you keep singing the same tune. According to you PC devs should tell all the people who bought entry level gpus to **** off and just make games for the radeon 6800xt and above, because people who bought those geforce 3050tis like me are holding back pc gaming for the elitists. Jeez its like some new kind of gpu racism 🤣

Games keep advancing and minimum specs keep rising. Having a gimped console as part of a new-gen does not help in that regard. A new gen should be about new experiences and pushing things forward, not staying in the past.

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Pedro

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#14 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 59681 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1: Bassman is an idiot when it comes to understanding how games work.🤷‍♂️

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daredevils2k

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#15 daredevils2k
Member since 2015 • 3871 Posts

I bet there is going to be a lot lems crying themselves to sleep tonight, because they bought a gimped out console .

Cows and sheeps, please donate tissues , because the lems are going to need it .

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Pedro

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#16 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 59681 Posts

@daredevils2k said:

I bet there is going to be a lot lems crying themselves to sleep tonight, because they bought a gimped out console .

Cows and sheeps, please donate tissues , because the lems are going to need it .

Didn't one of your folks bought a Series S?🤭

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#17 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19222 Posts

RAM on Series S is 1/2 the speed as on Series X so that hurts performance. Less RAM, even tho it hurts BC updates that run on One X but not Series S, still makes sense because it runs at a lower res. Slower RAM tho does a lot more to hurt it even when running at that lower res.

That's just the memory issues. But as games target next gen, the GPU constraints will hurt it even more. It already doesn't have RT modes on some cross gen games.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#18 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 12806 Posts

@BassMan: geez dude, it's just graphics. You must have missed it, 107 million nintendo switch sold and even worse, nintendo sold a record 250+ million pieces of software. People don't care so much about gfx. The series S is about 15 times more power than the switch, let that sink in.

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VFighter

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#19 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@Pedro: How's what he posted a meltdown exactly?

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#20 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19222 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1: Yeah it's the reason they don't bring a lot of games to the Switch. But they can't put a game on the Series X and not the Series S. And by the time mid-gen systems get here it will be even worse for devs.

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GoldenElementXL

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#21  Edited By GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 8277 Posts
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@BassMan: geez dude, it's just graphics. You must have missed it, 107 million nintendo switch sold and even worse, nintendo sold a record 250+ million pieces of software. People don't care so much about gfx. The series S is about 15 times more power than the switch, let that sink in.

It’s not just graphics though. The memory bottlenecks on the Series S are gonna be an obstacle for game design, as well as graphics. They really should have matched the memory configuration of the Series X, and just lowered the capacity. What they did to the Series S was silly. 10GB GDDR6 RAM, 8GB @ 224GB/S, 2GB @ 56GB/s… Not sure why they thought that was a good idea…

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blaznwiipspman1

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#22 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 12806 Posts

@girlusocrazy: I disagree on that point. I feel like optimizations for series S will be more mature by that point and devs will get more comfortable making games for series S. Theres a lot of untapped potential for series S, including using DRS techniques, FSR, VRS2.0 and more. Theres no need for series S to get 1080p all the time. People will be happy with 720p. It doesn't need cutting edge features like RT either. RT is a gimmick.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#23 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 12806 Posts

@goldenelementxl: who knows, but it makes sense. 8gb for gaming, 2gb for the system itself.

I said it before there's a lot of ways to optimize, like DRS scaling to 720p. Cutting out the gimmicky RT. Pulling frames down to 30fps. Using FSR2.0 and VRS2.0. Plus lots more. People generally don't care about graphics all that much. If the series S is able to meet some standard where it looks better than the ps4 , that's enough for most people.

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hardwenzen

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#24 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 20755 Posts

They need to use XboneX gpu with the S's cpu. Bump the price by like $50 if needed, but the current S is almost as much of a meme as the Switch is in 2022.

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GoldenElementXL

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#25 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 8277 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@girlusocrazy: Theres no need for series S to get 1080p all the time. People will be happy with 720p.

On these 55”+ 4K TVs?!?! Nah…

I feel like if you said this in 2013, you’d get laughed out of system wars. Yet, here we are, in 2022. Saying 1080p isn’t necessary, and that most people would be happy with 720p…

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Sancho_Panzer

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#26  Edited By Sancho_Panzer
Member since 2015 • 1995 Posts

John, on the thousand-to-one off-chance you're reading this...

You remember that annoying Xbox fanboy who once spouted off a load of super-weak trash talk about PlayStation around the time of one of the State of Plays (I think it was), causing you to rage quit a live stream? Well, that was me, and I'm deeply sorry. Don't punish MS please - I'm not affiliated in any way and they're really nice guys (probably). I won't ever do it again. Promise.

Also, Alex needs to wear even smaller vests (no homo).

Thanks, and apologies once more. You guys are great!

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#27 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19222 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1: Technically all these games can already run in potato mode on low spec systems already. The problem isn't getting it to work at all, but doing the QA and spending the time on polish and consistency. Although those techniques can help slightly bring up the quality of the end result, they won't make it any less work.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#28 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19222 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

On these 55”+ 4K TVs?!?! Nah…

I feel like if you said this in 2013, you’d get laughed out of system wars. Yet, here we are, in 2022. Saying 1080p isn’t necessary, and that most people would be happy with 720p…

That was an argument they tried with the One, (along with lower FPS is more cinematic).

Maybe coming off of the One the Series S is meeting some peoples expectations but that's going to quickly wear off and they're going to expect more as the cross gen titles disappear. Devs will probably still be making concessions on the S to get the game out the door like sorry if you wanted next gen you should have bought next gen.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#29 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 9645 Posts

Finally. More devs are admitting the S stands for SHIT. 🤣

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BassMan

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#30 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 15520 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin said:

Finally. More devs are admitting the S stands for SHIT. 🤣

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VFighter

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#31 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1: 720 in 2022, you're beyond delusional at this point 🤣

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Pedro

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#32  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 59681 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

It’s not just graphics though. The memory bottlenecks on the Series S are gonna be an obstacle for game design, as well as graphics. They really should have matched the memory configuration of the Series X, and just lowered the capacity. What they did to the Series S was silly. 10GB GDDR6 RAM, 8GB @ 224GB/S, 2GB @ 56GB/s… Not sure why they thought that was a good idea…

Prove that the memory is going to limit game design.😎

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#33  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19222 Posts

@Pedro: What do you expect him to do, develop his own game? They already have actual developers as well as DF backing them up saying RAM is an issue. Prove them wrong.

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GameboyTroy

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#34 GameboyTroy
Member since 2011 • 9515 Posts

@BassMan said:
@BenjaminBanklin said:

Finally. More devs are admitting the S stands for SHIT. 🤣

Lol.

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my_user_name

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#35 my_user_name
Member since 2019 • 807 Posts

Meh I think 99% of games being developed would be the same shit even on more powerful hardware just with a few more pixels .... so I don't believe for a second games are being held back in a meaningful way. Might suck for the devs having to do more work...

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sakaiXx

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#36 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 14325 Posts

Plis, stop buying last gen consoles.

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hardwenzen

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#37 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 20755 Posts

Look at Halo Infinite and tell me with a straight face that it wasn't held back by a massive amount. Go on i dare you, i double dare you, bro. In a way, Microsoft is holding gaming back with their Xbone and the S.

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deactivated-628e6669daebe

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#38 deactivated-628e6669daebe
Member since 2020 • 3637 Posts

Not exactly surprising. But if the hardware is selling they have to adapt to it.

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simple-facts

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#39 simple-facts
Member since 2021 • 1527 Posts

It has treble the 120 fps games ps5 has and any pc owner who's hasn't changed the FPS narrative will tell you that is king.

Poor ps5 is last gen and PS4 is holding it back

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Lavamelon

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#40 Lavamelon
Member since 2016 • 384 Posts

Xbox Series S is good because it forces devs to optimise their games for low-end hardware. This optimisation can carry over to low end PC gaming. Not every PC gamer has high-end hardware

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HalcyonScarlet

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#41 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 11810 Posts

@bryank75 said:

If you think Series S is anything but a dressed up last gen console.... then you are a fool.

The GPU is weaker than the One X and that is last gen. That means it is last gen.

This thing shouldnt even be counted towards next gen systems. Just add it to the XBone tally.

So the Wii is a 6th gen console, the Wii U a 7th gen console and the Switch a 7th gen console?

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x_hedon

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#42  Edited By x_hedon
Member since 2019 • 5042 Posts

@girlusocrazy said:

@Pedro: What do you expect him to do, develop his own game? They already have actual developers as well as DF backing them up saying RAM is an issue. Prove them wrong.

What about the developers that have praised the Series S and the included hardware? They don’t count all of a sudden?

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HalcyonScarlet

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#43 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 11810 Posts
@hardwenzen said:

Look at Halo Infinite and tell me with a straight face that it wasn't held back by a massive amount. Go on i dare you, i double dare you, bro. In a way, Microsoft is holding gaming back with their Xbone and the S.

Okay, Forza Horizon 5. Done, that was easy.

DF said it was the same as the Series X version, at a lower resolution. And FH5 is a lot more complex than a Halo game.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#44 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 11810 Posts
@goldenelementxl said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@girlusocrazy: Theres no need for series S to get 1080p all the time. People will be happy with 720p.

On these 55”+ 4K TVs?!?! Nah…

I feel like if you said this in 2013, you’d get laughed out of system wars. Yet, here we are, in 2022. Saying 1080p isn’t necessary, and that most people would be happy with 720p…

I mean, if you have a 55"+ 4K TV, why would you consider the Series S? That's not it's market.

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PC_Rocks

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#45  Edited By PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7158 Posts

As expected. The biggest bottleneck is the memory bandwidth. Devs can work somewhat with lower memory but memory bandwidth is something that will be a pain in the a$$. It's X1 all over again with its DDR3 memory and crap bandwidth. Just to put things in perspective Series S memory bandwidth is a little over PS4's from 2013.

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PC_Rocks

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#46  Edited By PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7158 Posts
@vfighter said:

@blaznwiipspman1: 720 in 2022, you're beyond delusional at this point 🤣

If he's delusional then what about you! You play in 720p/sub 30 FPS in 2022 on your PS4. ROFLMAO!

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SecretPolice

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#47 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 40924 Posts

Poo cows, most still playing games on their weak sauce BS Bore but concerned with XSS which is 10X faster. ;o

Eh, another day, another...

lol :P

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Antwan3K

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#48 Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 6318 Posts

the Series S is a budget console aimed at a casual crowd that doesn't know Digital Foundry exists.. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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R4gn4r0k

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#49  Edited By R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 40631 Posts
@pc_rocks said:

As expected. The biggest bottleneck is the memory bandwidth. Devs can work somewhat with lower memory but memory bandwidth is something that will be a pain in the a$$. It's X1 all over again with its DDR3 memory and crap bandwidth. Just to put things in perspective Series S memory bandwidth is a little over PS4's from 2013.

Devs are dropping PS4 and Xbox One because eventhough they could still support PS 4 pro and Xbox One X, the base consoles are too old at this point.

Reading your post, I have a feeling Xbox Series S could be dropped too (though in something like 4 years).

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VFighter

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#50 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@pc_rocks: Chromebook, you play on a Chromebook. 🤣 Let that sink in for a second.

Also, what game am I playing at 720, I'd love to know?