Did Sony just own their own fanbase with Horizon: Forbidden West?

We know the old narrative that PC gaming is a waste of time because all the power of PC is held back by games being made for the consoles and that PC is just the same games at higher resolution.

Enter Horizon: Forbidden West, a game hailed as the posterboy for next-gen gaming. Apparently, it showcased what a next-gen consoles could truly do when not bound to a last-gen hardware like the PC is. People were quick to point out how this game would never run on last-gen and used it as an example to mock Microsoft...All was well until it turned out this game is going to be released on PS4.

What happens to the narrative now? If Horizon: Forbidden West can look as great as it does despite being held back by the PS4, were the claims of PC games at max settings being just console games at higher res bogus all along? Or is Horizon: Forbidden West just a higher-res version of its predecessor?

Discuss.

Hmm... Looks like cows are avoiding this thread like it's the plague.

Forbidden west I suspect is going to be held back. It’ll look nicer on PS5 than PS4 but it’s just a sequel to the first game now which is still good for fans but it probably won’t be able to do anything revolutionary. It may add audio tempest stuff, haptic, and all that jazz but it has to be regulated to gimmicky stuff if your lower version doesn’t support it.

to be honest, this would be a good opportunity.

If it was "next gen only" it would be 30fps.

In theory, they should be able to make this a proper 60fps game on PS5 since it also has to run on PS4.

But they won't. They'll slap whizbangs on there that bog it down too much and keep it at 30.

We didn't have the all the information obviously. Of course cross-gen games are going hold some things back.

But it can still be a tremendous game anyway. And I'm assuming 4k/60 and possibly other graphical enhancements , as well as Dualsense additions and faster loading/fast travel.

I'm not missing out on this game on PS5.

We've all heard the narrative from cows how Halo was being held back on SeX because of being tied to the XB1, and we've heard how all SeX games will be held back because of the XSS. And here we are and not a peep out of the cows about this. Who knew that Sony could destroy all of the cows arguments in such a short amount of time LOL.

TCHBO, by Sony :)

Not their entire fanbase, but the people making threads about I/O being necessary in these games got owned. Plus Horizon: FW is (probably) coming to PC anyway.

Man, this has not been a good cow day.

Horizon doesn't look like it was held back like Halo did. It's obvious why everyone assumed it was the base xbox one holding the game back. And maybe it still is or maybe it's just bad devs. There's a reason The Medium isn't coming out on last gen hardware. There are limits. Apparently they were able to downgrade Horizon enough to run on a 1.84 teraflops system. I'd much prefer if this game was made just for the PS5 but I guess if it looks and plays next gen than it's fine.

I'm interested to see how they pull this off but I'm just as concerned. I don't want next gen games launching next year to be tied to the PS4.

Prior to this news, no-one questioned the game footage "true next gen" but all of sudden there are concerns. 🤣 Must be hard seeing that failed argument about being held back, backfiring extra hard.

Uhh, not me. I was one of those who pointed out that we didn't see HZFW gameplay and it was "in-engine" Same for MM. The only game I wasn't really worried about was Ratchet and Clank since we've seen gameplay twice showing off the SSD.

What I saw of MM looked fantastic, but it didn't show off SSD features and now it makes sense. I expect there to be subway rides and other fast travel and hidden loading sequences. They'll just take longer on the PS4.

My concern is that these transitional loading sections will still be there in these games and it's going to be awkward on the PS5. Like you'll see Miles on the subway for like a sec or two. What would be the point? That and level design might be impacted. I am still hoping that we get more access to NYC in MM but with this game being on PS4, IDK.

Are you accusing him of being a cow? how dare you lol.

Yes I'm really pissed.

These cows are shook. Not many are posting around these parts now...lmfao

This fake concern of the game design is just that fake. If its not fake then its just ignorance. Games are complex pieces of software, yet we have folks like yourself trivializing the talent of developers for reasons I am not particularly sure of. Its a freaking open world game yet your are here expressing concern about level design because of standard hard-drives? Are you serious? In addition to that you are complaining about one to two second load times because would have the misfortune of seeing a really short train ride (all of this is baseless speculation). I guess we can ignore the hyped demo of the PS5 SSD because the PS4 was holding it back. 🙄You all were wrong. Just own it.

I say I'm still concerned about a game being cross gen whether it's Sony or MS and you still call me a cow? Man you really are a one trick pony.

Fanboys say what they have to say to sway public opinion toward their console brand, that's the consistency one can make sense of out of the seemingly inconsistent messaging. Sony fanboys are exceptionally shameless about it. In their defense, if Xbox fanboys want to get even, they need to find Sony's Craig.

Poor cows. Looks like some of their biggest games are gonna be held back by last-gen.

Games are so complex, yet you are always making it sound like you can just adjust some settings and magically make a game run on any machine. And when devs come out to suggest to contrary you're nowhere to be found? Are those devs incompetent in your eyes? Or just lazy?

I'm not saying either, but I am saying that you absolutely have to design around hardware constraints. There's no getting around that. Look at Kena. It has a two second loading time on PS5. But in those two seconds, this happens:

“They have a whole thing set up where you can do a transition and it’s very nice, but frankly it doesn’t have time to play the animation,” explained Josh Grier, chief operating officer at Ember Lab. “It just loads the game so fast.”

So imagine having this transition being built into the game but only quickly being displayed and the user never gets a good glimpse of it. It would be a better experience to just not have the transition. This would also cut down on dev time since transitions wouldn't even have to be developed.

I'm assuming you're talking about the leaked Spiderman PS4 SSD demo? The one Sony never officially released? Yeah, if I see PS5 MM being able to pull that off, but a subway ride is put into PS4 MM instead, then that further proves my point. Devs have to create two different experiences when they could have just focused on one.

And Miles Morales is just a PS4 game that is playable on PS5 and a launch line up that is about as exciting as a bowl of plain rice, cows gonna be in meltdown mode all gen. How sad to have to settle for the least powerful console.

That's another fair point. MM was supposed to be the launch title for PS5. Now it's a cross gen game. They really needed something else. Obviously Horizon is coming Q1 next year and I guess we'll have to wait for GOW and Ratchet and Clank to get the real next gen deal.

This isn't surprising when I first saw the footage HZD2 it looked like a cross gen game but TBH I'm glad I can save money and just pick this up on the PS4... but cross gen should not last more then a year and a half or why bother having a next gen console in the first place if you're just going to hold it back.

I have not stated anything about it only adjusting settings and magically the game will run. Keep that nonsensical claims to yourself because that was never my argument. In addition that, I have been in many if not ALL the threads arguing against these developers. So, please don't continue to add false claims. It would be appreciated. 😐

Games are complex and yet you think that developers would be tripped up by something as simple as a train loading screen. That they somehow would be lost in a situation in which one scenario they need a loading screen and another they don't. That is what you are not getting.

A lot of things that are done in games are purely for aesthetics. There are games that can load instantly but it would be jarring so a transition is added to make it more visually appealing. Fade in and Fade out. In some cases it would add "loading" of 2-4 seconds but it looks better than just a harsh cut.

You do know that a loading screen is just something to show the gamer that something is happening and that the game hasn't crashed. If you believe that having two loading screens one that is a fade out and then fade in for near instant loading and the other a train ride is going to trip up developers then I suggest you don't comment on game development in the future.

You calling me a pony, how ironic LOL.

I think it's a mix, you have a huge ace user base on ps4. Then I have a feeling Ps5 Consoles are in very limited supply. Already clusterf"%& in Sony saying pre-orders coming tomorrow and then retailers going live tonight. I have a feeling some countries are going to get shafted for the major territories.

These games coming to Ps4 might be saving face as ps5 will be limited and a hard find for awhile.

First,

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/matt-booty-says-no-next-gen-1st-party-xbox-exclusi-33479354/?page=14#js-message-356432038

...

Also, everything can be scalable. Visuals, AI and physics are all scalable. That's the reality.

So does visual, AI, and physics scaling mean something else to you?

Second,

When addressing devs who raised the issue about supporting older hardware with next gen games:

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/devs-have-a-hard-time-scaling-games-down-to-xbox-o-33503097/?page=1#js-message-356660995

I wouldn't be surprised these developers are not even multi-threading their code.

So I'm guessing you think they're incompetent, not lazy.

Third, I'm not saying devs can't do it or will be tripped up. That sounds like something you'd believe based on the posts above. I'm saying it's easier for a dev to do a fade, per your example, than to have to create a new subway ride. That might sound simple but you and I both know creating scenes like that takes time and have a development cost.

Take a game like GOW. Using the portals means running around in a circle for a minute or two until the level loads and a door appears. How many weeks do you think it took Santa Monica to build that loading room? How amazing would it be to walk through the portal, see a flash of light and be in the next area within a second or two. No need to develop that path, meaning more dev and artist time towards other parts of the game.

In spiderman's case, I see a spot picked on a map, Miles takes a swing into the distance and lands where he needs to be after a camera cut. That can be realistically done on the new hardware, but for PS4, they have to create new subway rides or other loading scenes (not screens) to hide the loading. It's more expensive and it provides different experiences for players of different consoles. It might be cheaper to just leave the subway ride in and just let the game load, which will create the jarring experience.

Wait wait wait ... Forbidden West and Miles Morales are going to be PS4 titles ??? is that what i'm reading ??' hell yeah !!! screw next gen, i got what i want for the next few years.

First, which part of

"Also, everything can be scalable. Visuals, AI and physics are all scalable. That's the reality"

equals

"yet you are always making it sound like you can just adjust some settings and magically make a game run on any machine."

Please enlighten me in the equivalency.

Second,

When addressing devs who raised the issue about supporting older hardware with next gen games:

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/devs-have-a-hard-time-scaling-games-down-to-xbox-o-33503097/?page=1#js-message-356660995

I wouldn't be surprised these developers are not even multi-threading their code.

So I'm guessing you think they're incompetent, not lazy.

Lets not deviate from the issue I called you on. You said,

" And when devs come out to suggest to contrary you're nowhere to be found?"

Yet you are quoting me in one of the threads where I am nowhere to be found. 🤔

Third, I'm not saying devs can't do it or will be tripped up. That sounds like something you'd believe based on the posts above. I'm saying it's easier for a dev to do a fade, per your example, than to have to create a new subway ride. That might sound simple but you and I both know creating scenes like that takes time and have a development cost.

The bloody cutscene already exist. What nonsense are you talking about? Even if it didn't you are arguing as if the time and development cost for adding a loading sequence is anything noteworthy to the overall game development of a open world game or any game as a matter fact. Seriously that is your argument? 😐

Take a game like GOW. Using the portals means running around in a circle for a minute or two until the level loads and a door appears. How many weeks do you think it took Santa Monica to build that loading room? How amazing would it be to walk through the portal, see a flash of light and be in the next area within a second or two. No need to develop that path, meaning more dev and artist time towards other parts of the game.

In spiderman's case, I see a spot picked on a map, Miles takes a swing into the distance and lands where he needs to be after a camera cut. That can be realistically done on the new hardware, but for PS4, they have to create new subway rides or other loading scenes (not screens) to hide the loading. It's more expensive and it provides different experiences for players of different consoles. It might be cheaper to just leave the subway ride in and just let the game load, which will create the jarring experience.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. You are making minor stuff bigger than it is all because you and several others core argument has fallen apart. Here you are arguing that it would take weeks (not sure what arbitrary number you have in mind) to create the circular path in God of War. But, lets entertain this supposed burden; despite the fact that its not. In game development a lot of things are created and never used in the final product. Artist, programmers, sound effect, vfx etc all go through many iterations before the final product. But here you are trying to argue that the creation of a loading section would incur some sort of burden on production.

Its pretty clear, you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Its also clear that you are trying to salvage a weak and border line stupid argument about load screens holding back game development or some other bullshit. Please stop.

Please explain to me how scaling down visuals isn't the same adjusting settings to make a game run on older hardware. That's the context of the post and of my comment.

Second, that's the only post I could find where you address the dev comments, and it's one where you were insulting their ability to build games. So congrats, you did comment on it. But you also did what you're wrongfully accusing me of here, which is claiming that devs aren't competent enough, which I've denied twice so far.

The bloody cutscenes are specific to Peter Parker's spiderman. You really want the exact cutscenes with the exact assets and the exact animations but with Miles in the frame instead? You think Insomniac wants to do that?

So you think they built that room exactly the way it is now in one shot. Even though you just admitted that things get built and never used. Dude, I may not be a game developer, but I am a software engineer and stuff takes time to build, no matter how small. That room may appear like no big deal, but there's a lot involved in it. There's the level itself, the audio, the visual quality, the background loading. Not to mention that they end up actually using it as part of the story later on in the game. All of that had to be thought out, prototyped, and tested with a feedback loop between devs, artists, directors, and others. You think that room was built in less than a few weeks? Who are you trying to kid?

You think if the team didn't need to worry so much about a 5400rpm drive in the PS4 they'd bother to engineer a room like that? You think the world tree room is even going to be a thing in the next God of War?

You are confusing the end user experience as equal to production. Something being scalable does not equate to having a slider to adjust the settings. That slider is simply a visual representation of a variety of tech that occurs behind the scenes. The mere fact that this needs to be explained to you further qualifies my sentiment that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

The words you are looking for are "I was wrong. I made a false claim."

I guess you weren't given the memo that the game is in the same city meaning that most of the assets are recycled. Again, why are you unaware of this?

You missed the point entirely. You are trying to falsely argue that a loading scene would add undue burden to development. Its minor in the scope of the project. For a software engineer you are disturbingly oblivious to some basics stuff. Conflating sliders in a menu to scalability of AI, visuals etc. I guess I was wrong about your base knowledge. Right now you are just grasping at straws hoping some bullshit sticks. You were wrong, deal with it instead of doing whatever this nonsense you are doing right now. At least now I know that you are another oblivious forumite that spews nothing but Internet babble. 🤷‍♂️

All you have to do is to look at some of the multiplats already available and you'll see that Halo being cross gen has nothing to do with the game looking like a flat turd.

Bingo.

It’s clear to me now that Sony executives do not actually read SW and thus are unaware of the kind of fire support we need 🥺. Epic backfire...

Wtf happened to: “We believe in generations”?

Sony and MS has almost the exact same strategy (Sony seems to have copied everything to be fair). Just different wording.

Seeing cows realize that SSD garbage Sony fed them was just that, garbage lol.

The whole “Sony is gonna build games around that SSD and give us experiences never before possible and only possible on PS5” while seeing also on PS4 is hilarious. You kid got played and everyone told you.

Xbox is king.

its always hilarious to see fanboys get bitch slapped,but when its by the company they fangirl over then HAH

sony lied to you,and God of war will be a held back x-gen title too

bless

@bluestars: has gow been confirmed to be cross gen?

Sony is full of shit

Well, corporation in general are. They would back paddle on anything shamelessly.

Anyway, game has to be 4k 60 fps since it's a cross gen

The Bovine Brigade deserves the boatloads of bad news from they're dear leader, Phony, they've been made to swallow lately.

I almost, almost mind you, feel sorry for the little fellas. lol :P

why did hzd2 got cancelled? its still coming to ps5. now we know its going to be 4k/60 on the ps5.

was i a bit upset sure but that does not change the fact the game is still coming.

next god of war was announced = bad day?

final fantasy exclusive to ps5 = bad day for lem who play this game.

nope not yet im sure it won't be but im not holding my breath.

fact is its still coming in 2021. either way its still a system seller in 2021.

I was a bit upset. not going to lie. but the fact is the games are still coming to the ps5 and thats were i will be playing these games on. they didn't cancel anything.

fact is both xbox and sony has lied in the past. its business. they care about money just as much as we do.

You all wanted to believe the lie despite all the contrary signs.

It takes a lot of power to jump from 1080p to 4k. It's really not surprising that next gen games can be run by current gen systems at lower res. The return on investment for graphics will only continue to get worse moving forward.

Thing is there was no signs when it came to hzd2. miles i could see but not hzd2. even though i did fall for miles as well lol.

there was no sign of that game being on the ps4 except that hzd2 started as a ps4 game but they said they changed that once they got the ps5 dev kits. they said we have shifted the game to next gen.

ratchet and clank will not be on ps4 at least. unless the portals takes a half of a min to every time you enter a rift lol. that would suck.

The signs were randomly claiming certain games looking "next gen" when they look like current games. Now that some of these "next gen" games are going to be on current hardware all of sudden the "hold back" BS argument returns. "Next gen" is just better performance of current gen at 4k(1440p for the Series S), faster loading and better overall experience. There is very little that can exclusively be done on "next gen" systems.

Neither did Halo in the original trailers until they shown the actual gameplay.

Besides, people already said Horizon 2 doesn't look like a quantum leap over 1 as many cows were making it out to be.

lol wow