DF's video FM7 vs. GTS comparison is coming. And yes, GTS obliterates FM7 ( 4k/Ultra settings ) graphically

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#1 Edited by mowgly1 (1070 posts) -

Just some hints from Digital Foundry's tech analyst John Linneman :

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=251979107&postcount=256

There are different trade-offs.

Reflections are slightly lower quality on GT but appear to update at full rate. Forza seems to update all reflections at 30fps instead.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=251980607&postcount=265

This is an unfair comment to make. The video isn’t what it is due to HDR - it required so much effort to make that I couldn’t dig in as deeply.

That said, I disagree with your assessment now after spending the morning comparing the two.

Forza and GT both use 2D trees but the tree textures are more detailed and better lit in GT. Forza just slaps two flat surfaces together but it’s still ultimately 2D in nature.

GT also uses a fully modeled 3D crowd on all tracks aside from the giant stadiums. Forza’s crowd is entirely 2D.

GT has more details than I expected when looking closely.

Again, this first video was limited because of the HDR production time. It was a nightmare.

I'm working on a more detailed video putting Forza 7 and GTS side by side and I think you're going to be genuinely shocked by the results. I honestly expected Forza 7 to crush GT in terms of track side detail but it's absolutely not the case.

I can see why, though. Forza has a lower contrast look even in HDR and its flaws don't stick out as much while racing, which is a very important thing, but if you look closely at individual assets, you can see that Polyphony put in the work. The tracks ARE detailed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=251981381&postcount=272

You seem obsessed with the tire wall but I can point to a number of other higher polygon objects in GT as well.

What I've found is that some objects are more detailed in Forza, others more detailed in GT.

Seriously, you haven't seen anything yet. The difference, when you compare side by side, is nothing like you seem to think. GT has a lot more going on than expected.

No. I've decided to use the PC version using Ultra settings. It's beyond what Xbox One X offers (reflections and rear view can update at full frame-rate on PC, for instance) but it's much closer than using the 1080p XO version.

Thankfully, F7 runs flawlessly on my PC at 4K60 using Ultra.

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#2 Posted by PinkAnimal (2380 posts) -

LOL. Let's remember lemmings are paying $100 more for a machine one year later with a smaller library and it can't even beat Sony's first party. Lemmings have been suckered by MS, kudos to MS for playing them so easily lol.

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#3 Edited by QuadKnight (12918 posts) -

Not surprising in the least. I tried to warn lems that substantial sacrifices were going to be made to attain 4K60 on XboneX version of Flopza 7, they said I was crazy. Looks like PC version is being held back due to these sacrifices. Sad thing is that even the XboneX version won’t match the PC version.

Forza looks good but T10 is no match for the wizards at Polyphony Digital. Forza games have never looked as good as their counterpart GT games of the same generation. PD’s attention to detail is insane at times. Now that they have gotten rid of the standard cars and bullshit, and have fully modeled cars and engine from the ground up for PS4, they are untouchable.

Another part of the problem with F7 is also that it has to run at 1080p/60 on the base Xbone which is substantially weaker than the standard PS4 GTS has to run on. It doesn’t matter that PCs and XboneX are more powerful than the PS4 Pro, F7 is still being held back by the OG Xbone.

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#4 Posted by Random_Matt (3416 posts) -

First party will always look better, lems should know this as well. Waiting for the damage control.

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#5 Posted by lexxluger (599 posts) -

Boo

Where is the video with the direct comparison?

Boo, I want my 10 seconds back.

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#6 Posted by UItravioIence (1035 posts) -

TLHBO

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#7 Posted by iambatman7986 (2693 posts) -

Not really on topic, but I'd love to see what Polyphony could do with a 1080ti and an i7 8700k. Imagine what they could build with their talent on high end specs.

On topic, this should be an interesting topic to follow.

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#8 Posted by speedfreak48t5p (13180 posts) -

So much cow insecurity around here these days.

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#9 Edited by hrt_rulz01 (17556 posts) -

@speedfreak48t5p: Lol yep... I've never seen anything like it.

Anyway, if they want to keep these DF comparisons coming... bring them on. But somehow I think they'll be very selective with which ones they post. Lol.

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#10 Edited by GoldenElementXL (2254 posts) -

@mowgly1 said:

No. I've decided to use the PC version using Ultra settings. It's beyond what Xbox One X offers (reflections and rear view can update at full frame-rate on PC, for instance) but it's much closer than using the 1080p XO version.

Thankfully, F7 runs flawlessly on my PC at 4K60 using Ultra.

I remember speculating that the Xbox One X version of F7 would do things like cut the fps of reflections and the mirrors. It's like I'm more right as the days go by...

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#11 Posted by APiranhaAteMyVa (4043 posts) -

Thank you Sony

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#12 Edited by Xplode_games (1902 posts) -

@pinkanimal said:

LOL. Let's remember lemmings are paying $100 more for a machine one year later with a smaller library and it can't even beat Sony's first party. Lemmings have been suckered by MS, kudos to MS for playing them so easily lol.

LOL. Let's remember cows are paying $100 more for a machine one year later with a smaller exclusive library and it can't even beat Nintendo's first party and isn't even portable. Cows have been suckered by Sony, kudos to Sony for playing them so easily lol.

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#13 Posted by Xplode_games (1902 posts) -

As far as this thread is concerned, GT always has more hype, Forza always turns out to be the much better game. I fully expect after all of these fanboy graphic jousts are over, GT will hit the bargain bin while Forza will become the de facto standard sim racing experience. Time will tell.

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#14 Posted by mazuiface (625 posts) -

@iambatman7986 said:

Not really on topic, but I'd love to see what Polyphony could do with a 1080ti and an i7 8700k. Imagine what they could build with their talent on high end specs.

On topic, this should be an interesting topic to follow.

This sort of is on topic, because PD has been discussing releasing Gran Turismo on PC for years. They should just go ahead and do it -- it wouldn't be the first game Sony published for Steam (assuming that a PC version would be distributed on Steam)

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#15 Posted by xhawk27 (10778 posts) -

At least Forza 7 is native 4k.

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#16 Posted by QuadKnight (12918 posts) -

@Xplode_games: Is that why Flopza 7 is currently selling worse than the low selling F6? Don’t kid yourself man, F7 will hit bargain bin long before GTS.

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#17 Posted by lifelessablaze (832 posts) -

"GTS Obliterates Forza in graphics"

Talks about 2d trees and crowds. Good for you OP, you're a moron fanboy.

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#20 Edited by QuadKnight (12918 posts) -

@sirdad said:
@quadknight said:

@Xplode_games: Is that why Flopza 7 is currently selling worse than the low selling F6? Don’t kid yourself man, F7 will hit bargain bin long before GTS.

This is not a genuine post, its physical sales are slightly down in the UK, physical sales. Play Anywhere also didn't exist for Forza 6 which is a huge digital purchase incentive. When context is applied to your posts they quickly take a dirt nap.

😂 So you really believe Flopza 7 will outsell GTS when it's all said and done? Willing to bet your new alt account on it?

So many butthurt excuses for Flopza 7 failing to meet sales expectation NyaDC. Flopza 7 is a flop, deal with it, it's gonna get steamrolled by GTS in retail.

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#21 Edited by mowgly1 (1070 posts) -

@quadknight said:
@sirdad said:
@quadknight said:

@Xplode_games: Is that why Flopza 7 is currently selling worse than the low selling F6? Don’t kid yourself man, F7 will hit bargain bin long before GTS.

This is not a genuine post, its physical sales are slightly down in the UK, physical sales. Play Anywhere also didn't exist for Forza 6 which is a huge digital purchase incentive. When context is applied to your posts they quickly take a dirt nap.

😂 So you really believe Flopza 7 will outsell GTS when it's all said and done? Willing to bet your new alt account on it?

So many butthurt excuses for Flopza 7 failing to meet sales expectation NyaDC. Flopza 7 is a flop, deal with it, it's gonna get steamrolled by GTS in retail.

Digital sales are LAME excuse provided by Xbone fans when some their lovely big exclusive sold badly. But, but, but, but digital sales.....

Play Anywhere title is not a guaranteed success. Quantum Break was Play Anywhere title and game sold like crap. But, but. but digital sales....

Forza 6 isn't PA title, retail sales were lower than Forza 5. Forza 7 retail sales are lower than Forza 6. So, game sold badly and Play Anywhere won't save Forza 7 nor XboneX.

Btw. GTS is NOT always online game.

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#23 Posted by lifelessablaze (832 posts) -

GT is the best selling console exclusive of all time. For some odd reason, Europeans are obsessed with this franchise.

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#24 Posted by QuadKnight (12918 posts) -

@mowgly1: True, we've seen this same song and dance before with every Xbone game that fails to sell well.

"😭 Bu...bu...bu....but digital sales!!11"

You don't see cows do this with PS exclusives. When Knack 2 flopped I didn't see anyone mention digital sales.

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#25 Edited by QuadKnight (12918 posts) -

@lifelessablaze said:

GT is Sony's best selling console exclusive of all time. For some odd reason, Europeans are obsessed with this franchise.

Fixed that for you.

Nintendo still has exclusives that sell more than GT franchise but it's definitely Sony's most popular franchise by a wide margin.

Europe loves GT games.

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#26 Posted by Zero_epyon (12746 posts) -

@lukeasaurusrex said:

@goldenelementxl: You're always wrong. Remember when you said native 4K/60fps was impossible on X1X? You were wrong as usual. Native 4K/60fps baby!!! Get over it.

Were you even around for that?

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#27 Posted by QuadKnight (12918 posts) -

@Zero_epyon said:
@lukeasaurusrex said:

@goldenelementxl: You're always wrong. Remember when you said native 4K/60fps was impossible on X1X? You were wrong as usual. Native 4K/60fps baby!!! Get over it.

Were you even around for that?

You already know the answer to that question lol.

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#28 Posted by Zero_epyon (12746 posts) -

@quadknight said:
@Zero_epyon said:
@lukeasaurusrex said:

@goldenelementxl: You're always wrong. Remember when you said native 4K/60fps was impossible on X1X? You were wrong as usual. Native 4K/60fps baby!!! Get over it.

Were you even around for that?

You already know the answer to that question lol.

of course lol

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#29 Posted by Pedro (31659 posts) -

Forza 7 still stressing the Sony fanboys. LMAO at the no screens in OP.

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#30 Posted by tdkmillsy (2880 posts) -

@lifelessablaze said:

"GTS Obliterates Forza in graphics"

Talks about 2d trees and crowds. Good for you OP, you're a moron fanboy.

This sums up the thread nicely.

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#31 Edited by cainetao11 (35448 posts) -

@quadknight: Dude you're smarter than that. You're really going to go all fanboy at the fact that digital sales are a rising %of game sales that go un reported? I have no horse in this race, I don't play racing games but everyone knows digital sales has really taken off for consoles this gen.

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#32 Posted by tdkmillsy (2880 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@quadknight: Dude you're smarter than that. You're really going to go all fanboy at the fact that digital sales are a rising %of game sales that go un reported? I have no horse in this race, I don't play racing games but everyone knows digital sales has really taken off for consoles this gen.

I wouldn't expect a sensible reply.

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#33 Posted by cainetao11 (35448 posts) -

@tdkmillsy: It's absurd to act as if bringing up digital sales is merely an excuse anymore when retailers like Gamestop are cutting back because of lower revenue. It's quite obvious that digital on console and that includes PS4 as well, are a large unreported portion of a games sales. To act as if retail speaks the whole story anymore is baby shit.

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#34 Posted by xxyetixx (3010 posts) -

I don't really play racing games and def don't play racing sims, but all that matters is the car models and how they handle. Giving a shit about tree models and crowd models is just silly. I'm not going to pause my game and look to take note of that.

Just like all the idiots that say there's more grass around that tree or that brick wall has more texture when you look at it. IDGAF 🙄

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#35 Edited by Archangel3371 (25812 posts) -

Meh. I’ve lost interest in the Gran Turismo franchise long ago and much prefer the Forza franchise. This does nothing to change that.

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#36 Posted by PinkAnimal (2380 posts) -

@sirdad: "Gran Turismo Sport has a base render on the Pro that is three times lower than the Xbox One X's native render"

And it still manages to look worse. Pathetic. I think MS first party should get some lessons from Sony's. Sony can make a game look better with 3 times less resolution, that's talent. Take some notes Turn 10.

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#37 Posted by babyjoker1221 (1131 posts) -

I've played both. GTS owns two pieces of the graphical puzzle. Replays and lighting. Replays is an insignificant piece. Forza owns the hundreds of other pieces, the table the puzzle sits on, the house the table is in, and the land the house is located on. It's not really that close.

This is a sad sad attempt at damge control from cows. They are grasping at straws when all year long their mantra has been about games... Not graphics.

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#38 Edited by GoldenElementXL (2254 posts) -

@lukeasaurusrex: Please provide a list of native (literally native, not its buzzword use) 4K/60 FPS titles on the Xbox One X. I will then provide a list of games missing that mark. Let’s see who wins...

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#39 Posted by xantufrog (9659 posts) -

That... doesn't sound right. I can totally imagine GTS winning out in specific areas, but F7 looks amazing. Sounds like GTS has better handling from some of the impressions in the other thread though

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#41 Posted by GoldenElementXL (2254 posts) -

@lukeasaurusrex: Please provide proof that I said 4K was impossible. I never said that. I know once the discussion gets past buzzwords, some of our slower users have trouble keeping up.

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#43 Posted by PinkAnimal (2380 posts) -

@lukeasaurusrex: who said the 1X was never going to achieve 4k/60fps? Only an idiot would say that considering even the Pro has games like that. What I saw many people saying was calling BS on MS and lemmings claiming that the majority of games or even all first party games would be 4k/60fps. That's moronic and yet many lemmings were claiming that.

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#46 Posted by PinkAnimal (2380 posts) -

@babyjoker1221: "mantra has been about games... Not graphics"

Well even there GTS seems to have the edge considering it has better driving physics which is mostly what makes a Sim game a good game.

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#47 Posted by PinkAnimal (2380 posts) -

@lukeasaurusrex: so if so many said it you surely can easily find proof.

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#49 Posted by PinkAnimal (2380 posts) -

@lukeasaurusrex: I didn't think you would because you wouldn't be able to keep lying about it if you did. That's what dishonest people do, make wild claims and cowardly back away when asked to provide evidence.