DF: Xbox One X Game Upgrades: Can We Expect True 4K?

Specifically, Vega or PS4 Pro's double rate FP16 is not available for X1X.

Polaris has it's double subword FP16 feature. Deal with it.

Your FP16 addiction will not change X1X's GPU result being superior to R9-390X and RX-580.

The xbox one can't use FP16 double pumped period and MS stated so only Vega and Nvidia can do that,FP16 has been on many GPU double pumped no it is not.

The R390X has way more bandwidth than scorpio even with DCC on scorpio.

And neither is hold back by a wimpy CPU on PC,the xbox one X will be bottleneck by its shitty jaguar,no amount of customization let alone one already on xbox one and even to a lesser level on 360.

Which is what you don't want to see because you are to blind,that Jaguar will not match an i5 or i7 or Ryzen for that matter,the Pro is bottleneck by 2.1ghz so adding 43% more GPU with only 10% more CPU creates a bottleneck even bigger,there is no escaping it and you will be wrong and owned a gain like you have been all this year.

A 6TF GPU will go further on a i7 than it will go on a Jaguar it is a FACT not my opinion,specially when you have 16GB of system ram and SSD as well helping.

Look at the huge improvement alone SSD can make,and look a 1060GTX which is basically on par with a RX480,so please stop claiming scorpio would beat a 580 or 390X,when in reality it will probably lose just like the xbox one loss to the 7770 in many games,regardless of having more bandwidth.

@tormentos: Again, PC doesn't have a monopoly with SSD and X1X games would have budgeted baseline 1 TB 7200 rpm storage device.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-should-you-upgrade-your-xbox-one-with-an-ssd

Xbox One game performance generally sees little or no improvement by using an SSD, outside of improved loading times.

http://www.seagate.com/us/en/consumer/play/game-drive-xbox-ssd/

You are an idiot you can use SSD on xbox but since games are not program for SSD you don't get any frame boost,on PC since games are coded to take advantage of the best to worse possible hardware that you may have it does,i just showed you 3 games were SSD boos performance more than an actual Overclock does in many GPU,and you still deny it.

The fact that the xbox one doesn't improve doesn't mean PC doesn't improve the argument here is that you are using PC charts to make comparison and claim certain performance for scorpio,without taking into account that those benchmarks are made with top of the line CPU some times as expensive as $1,000 and huge system memory amounts and SSD in many instances.

The bottleneck on those system is minimal at worse,on scorpio is not like that at all.

By the way those ssd connect to xbox one by USB which could also be the problem,alto the only thing the articles you listed there prove is that the xbox one will not improve with SSD,which mean scorpio even with SSD would not improve which again put it in a dis advantage vs PC which will improve frame wise by SSD.

Look at BF1 it improves 19FPS just by using an SSD,that is more than most cards would get by OC and something you will not get on scorpio,and you are to dense to admit it.

Dude you destroyed yourself. You pulled up a post of mine from 2 years 8 months ago with me saying the Xbox was having a bunch of good games. It is really weird that you were so upset that I said some bad stuff about Playstation that you search that much into someones history, so much that you go back to almost 3 years. The worst part is you pull up a post from almost 3 years ago of me saying good things about the Xbox. The fact you spent all that time searching through a history of posts just because I praised the Xbox or insulted the PS4 should show you that you are way too invested in this system wars stuff. I mean seriously that post is almost as old as the Xbox One launch console. I said I would look up your posts also but I really could not care less. Your pic was just something fast. I would never spend much time on something silly like this.

As far as the pic, do not worry I will not post it again. This is all in good fun and I will not do personal digs.

It's sad isn't it. This site must be his life if he's actually sitting looking thru old old post. He also has a very poor reading comprehension level and most of the stuff he post has nothing to do with what the person he's replying to is saying.

@goldenelementxl: So you mean all those cows calling the PS4 500GF advantage huge was a lie? The PS4 advantage over the X1 was small and the onscreen advantage showed it. I do like how the hypocritical cows are now calling the 2TF advantage the X1X has now small or minuscule but that's not even the point. Guess that flew right over your head and el tormented never had a chance at comprehending it.

I would have thought you would have picked up on that buuuuutttt I'm guessing, by your recent posting history, you're going full cow. I mean you just praised the most delusional cow on this site. The only person that should be embarrassed is you for not picking up on the obvious.

Flawed argument. When XBO's baseline storage characteristics are known, programmers can plan ahead and schedule data reads properly. PC doesn't have this luxury since storage device is not known and assumptions are made and these assumptions can be wrong.

PC's benchmark is showing GPUs stalling from texture fetch problem.

@Zero_epyon:

tehe... :P

NO is not flawed you are just to dumb to get it,or to dishonest.

1-The argument here is that using a PC chart to claim Scorpio will reach certain performance is wrong.

2-Those Benchmarks use stronger hardware and more efficient hardware than scorpio.

3-PC benchmark show 19FPS gain on BF1 by just using SSD over normal drive a 33% improvement for a 1060GTX which is close to the RX480 by the way.

So basically we are right and you are not,using PC benchmarks using top of the line components is not the way to measure scorpio performance which doesn't have SSD and has a shitty jaguar.

@SecretPolice said:

@Zero_epyon:

tehe... :P

Clever Girl...

@Zero_epyon said:

@SecretPolice said:

@Zero_epyon:

tehe... :P

Clever Girl...

You have to excuse CowEpyon. Intellectual honesty is not his strong suit.

@kuu2 said:

@Zero_epyon said:

@SecretPolice said:

@Zero_epyon:

tehe... :P

Clever Girl...

You have to excuse CowEpyon. Intellectual honesty is not his strong suit.

CowEpyon? Ha Ha. That's cute. Hey remember when you accused me of running away from a question even though I didn't and proved it?

You going to man up and answer my question of finding examples of me being intellectually dishonest? It's been a day or two...

I fully expect you to ignore this comment like usual.

@Zero_epyon said:

@kuu2 said:

@Zero_epyon said:

@SecretPolice said:

@Zero_epyon:

tehe... :P

Clever Girl...

You have to excuse CowEpyon. Intellectual honesty is not his strong suit.

CowEpyon? Ha Ha. That's cute. Hey remember when you accused me of running away from a question even though I didn't and proved it?

You going to man up and answer my question of finding examples of me being intellectually dishonest? It's been a day or two...

I fully expect you to ignore this comment like usual.

Antwan already did with your negative parphrasing when a simple quote would suffice. Secret also just exposed you. You come into my thread saying I am beating a dead horse which is what you are doing in your thread. Its ok bro.

@kuu2 said:

@Zero_epyon said:

@kuu2 said:

@Zero_epyon said:

@SecretPolice said:

@Zero_epyon:

tehe... :P

Clever Girl...

You have to excuse CowEpyon. Intellectual honesty is not his strong suit.

CowEpyon? Ha Ha. That's cute. Hey remember when you accused me of running away from a question even though I didn't and proved it?

You going to man up and answer my question of finding examples of me being intellectually dishonest? It's been a day or two...

I fully expect you to ignore this comment like usual.

Antwan already did with your negative parphrasing when a simple quote would suffice. Secret also just exposed you. You come into my thread saying I am beating a dead horse which is what you are doing in your thread. Its ok bro.

Ugh relying on someone else's post is intellectually lazy. Even if it were true that the paraphrasing had a negative tone, and I'm not for one second admitting that, it's not intellectual dishonesty.

Here's one definition of Intellectual Dishonesty:

"When one avoids an honest, deliberate and comprehensive approach to a matter because it may introduce an adverse effect on personally and professionally held views and beliefs."

My views? Xbox One X is more powerful than the pro. I expect the X to reach native 4K more often than the Pro. I don't expect the X to run native 4K Ultra 60 fps for demanding games like Gears 4, Witcher 3, or Battlefront 2. I'm on the record saying this multiple times.

So how does this thread or any of my post make me intellectually dishonest? What have I said i the past that conflicts with what I've said.

At best, you're calling me a hypocrite, but even that's a stretch as this thread is about speculation about the X's limits and what we can expect in the future. It's highly opinionated and offers discussion. Your thread was almost literally a copy of your previous two threads. Just replace the developer's name and you would have a template.

Your paraphrasing fits the definition exactly.

Anyway, you don't need to convince me because that won't happen.

Irony...

Lol this thread just exposed the fraud Ronbot and his spamming of hardware presentations is. He is incapable of understanding the technical aspects of what he regurgitates, no one who does could be so clueless as he is. His prediction accuracy is sitting around 0% now. For so much time he spends copy pasting graphs and writing technical terms he sure as hell is bad at this. Maybe he needs a new hobby and invest time in something he actually understands and knows about. Can we start calling Ronbot the Pachter of SW lol

You guys keep bring up PC comparisons and digital underground do the Humpty Hump/ sorry I mean Digital Foundry who has claimed you cannot compare to a PC because of the many customizations done to the silicone, Direct X12 hardwired, as well as known bottlenecks addressed back in R&D because how much they worked with actual developers.

Can everyone just chill on this til November?

@the-a-baum: This all started with Digital Foundry making PC comparisons and Xbox fanboys running wild. Since then we've seen hype deflated, Digital Foundry downgrading their original comparison, a Microsoft exec stating the DX12 implementation is the same as what is already available in the current Xbox some family and games falling off the "true 4K" list. The whole thing is quite reminiscent of the PS4 launch and 1080p.

Just another day at System Wars

@goldenelementxl: Any console fan comparing to a PC needs to just let that go. It's a closed box vs a pc that continuously gets newer hardware.

PC guys need to understand as well. Console gamers don't like to play that way.

Wait they removed games from the 4K list they released?

No i pulled a post of you damage controlling the xbox one inferior version using the word EXCLUSIVES,not only that you did no care 2 shits about the xbox one inferior performance and now act like it is everything you are in deed a hypocrite,and your own feet dragging was your demise.

Oh look group therapy another hypocrite this time the one who claim 40% was minimal when it was PS4 vs xbox one and now claims 43% is big...hahahhahahahaa

Actually goolgle is my friend and is quite easy to find your bullshit..lol

@kingtito said:

You keep missing the point. You DO NOT know what the XOne or PS4 is or isn't capable of. The power difference is minimal at best and there several differnt devs stating this. You, with your vast programming knowledge, know more than they would?

https://www.google.com.pr/search?q=the+gap+is+minimal+kingtito+system+wars&rlz=1C1CHBF_enPR745PR745&oq=the+gap+is+minimal+kingtito+system+wars&aqs=chrome..69i57.9823j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=the+gap+is+minimal+kingtito+system+wars+site:www.gamespot.com

See super easy bro...lol

But but but you have to browse old threads...lol

DX12 is hard wire into the xbox one as well it mean total shit,console don't have problems with draw calls PC did,which is why DX12 did nothing for the xbox one,but did something for PC.

Day late and dollar short as usual El tormented.

So to get this straight, you claimed the power difference between the PS4 and X1 huge. You claimed 1080p vs 900p is huge even though you could barely see a difference if at all.

Now you're claiming the power difference between X1X and Ps Pro is small. The difference in resolution and performance is minuscule as well. Do you see what I'm getting at el tormented? Probably not since you could find a way to justify your hypocrisy no matter what the scenario. I'll spell it out.....YOU ARE A HYPROCRITE......I bet you still don't get it

Microcode is effectively a mini-CPU that can take higher level API call and break it down to GPU's ISA. This feature consumes CPU resource on PC regardless of DirectX12.

Anyway,

Notice the difference between PC's DirectX12 vs XBO's DirectX12 i.e. PC's DirectX 12 uses GPU compute shaders resource while XBO version runs via microcode command processor. PC version is effective emulating the missing XBO feature via GPU's compute shaders.

PC charts are used to back dev claims for 4K for X1X.

For example

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-fallout-4-ps4-pro-patch-analysis

PS4 Pro's Fallout 4 pushes the game to a native 1440p (3,686,400 pixels).

From http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58024/bethesda-xbox-one-support/index.html Dev statement which is the primary claim.

"We're looking for all of our studios to add a level of support for Xbox One X. We Tweeted out last night that we're working right now to get Skyrim SE and Fallout 4 supported on the X," Hines said in a recent interview(youtube video link) with Geoff Keighely

. "We're working right now to get both of those titles supported with higher resolution, True 4K, higher frame rates, etc. The games will take advantage of the hardware and Microsoft's been grateful and Phil Spencer came out last year to tell us what they're doing and walk us through a tech demo to let all of our guys get up to speed on what Xbox One X is capable of doing and how we want to embrace it and incorporate it into our games."

X1X's 4K has 8,294,400 pixels.

More than 43 percent advantage for X1X.

Secondary source to back Dev's statement.

Btw, R9-390's 5.1 TFLOPS is showing RX-580's 6.17 TFLOPS being gimped by memory bandwidth.

SSD is only showing PC GPU is stalling due to missing data which can be workaround on fixed hardware game consoles.

------------

At 4K, the GPU is bottleneck NOT the CPU and the same CPU can still scale with higher GPUs like GTX 1080 Ti.

Ron still making that fake news?

Your post is very fake news. I'm posting 1st party dev claims and I'm double checking Dev claim with a PC chart.

The cute thing is that he acts as if people still takes him seriously here lol. Ronbot "the SW Pachter" Valencia, you are clueless pal, you can't predict shit, give it a rest with your worthless spamming that nobody even reads anymore, it just takes scrolling time, your posts are only good to shorten the life of mouse scrolling wheels.

You are the clue less poster with mad cow disease.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

As for the comparisons between the PC and Xbox One X, he said: "If you think about it, it's kind of equivalent to a GTX 1070 maybe and the Xbox One X actually has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. It's kind of like having a pretty high-end PC minus a lot of overhead due to the operating system on PC. So I would say it's equivalent to a 16GB 1070 PC, and that's a pretty good deal for $499".

I predicated X1X having GPU solution better than my R9-390X and another poster's RX 480 OC and here we have a dev claim with GTX 1070 GPU range for X1X..

@ronvalencia: And you were wrong as usual Ronbot.

Look I get most of what goes on here is speculation, and everybody want to be right. But there is a reason why Vegas does not take bets for stuff like this. It's stupid to argue about.

November will be here before we know it.

You can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a cows ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it!

It's better than my R9-390X and another poster's RX 480 OC.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

As for the comparisons between the PC and Xbox One X, he said: "If you think about it, it's kind of equivalent to a GTX 1070 maybe and the Xbox One X actually has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. It's kind of like having a pretty high-end PC minus a lot of overhead due to the operating system on PC. So I would say it's equivalent to a 16GB 1070 PC, and that's a pretty good deal for $499".

Too bad for you, FP16 feature to be enabled for Polaris under Shader Model 6 which is missing for normal Pascal GPUs. Deal with it.

@ronvalencia: stop spamming nonsense Ronbot. The X1X is not equivalent to a 1070, hell some users here quoted you comparing the X1X to a 1080. It's hard to get more clueless than that. Your credibility is in negative numbers now and spamming the same crap over and over while ignoring reality is not helping you getting it back.

The xbox one has like 140GB/s sustain according to MS interview with DF,and has 5GB of memory for games 5 times that of the 7770 and basically double the bandwidth yet a 7770 runs Ryse at 1080p average 31 FPS far surpassing the xbox one 900p and sub 30 performance.

This is why i tell you that your comparison are wrong.

NOPE!

only lems believe that crap

Better result on XBO.

You have used early XBO game that was designed with about 10 percent Kinect reservation and without the new ESRAM API usage.

.

You don't have any credibility.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

As for the comparisons between the PC and Xbox One X, he said: "If you think about it, it's kind of equivalent to a GTX 1070 maybe and the Xbox One X actually has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. It's kind of like having a pretty high-end PC minus a lot of overhead due to the operating system on PC. So I would say it's equivalent to a 16GB 1070 PC, and that's a pretty good deal for $499".

Who are you again?

Vega 11 was compared with GTX 1080 since this Pascal GPU is missing a feature and still missing FP16 feature when compared to Polaris' dual subword FP16 feature.

Polaris = GCN 4

Try again.

@ronvalencia: No Ronbot, the X1X is not equivalent to the GTX 1080. And who am I? Evidently somebody that is calling your BS for what it is.

Ronbot is malfunctioning again lol.

DF has way more credibility than Ron the clown and they've stopped comparing X1X to a GTX 1070 yet Ron is still comparing X1X to a GTX 1080?

? What a nutcase.

Forza is a screw up game on PC that stress only 2 CPU cores holding back strong GPU,it has been 1080p 60FPS since day 1 on xbox one so on PC it should yield 4k not problems the only reason it does is because MS games are screw up on PC,Ryse isn't a MS game is Crytek game Crytek >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS pushing hardware.

So again the 7770 beat the shit out of the xbox one in Ryse 1080p 31FPS average with mixed settings higher than xbox one to..lol

So regardless of the 7770 having basically half the bandwidth the xbox one has 72Gb/s and having 1GB of ram,still beat the xbox one with 5GB of ram for video and 140GB/s..

^^^^ Here proof that bandwidth without power mean total shit but is not the first time i tell you that,i have been telling you that for years..

Remember how i told you that if you give 300GB/s to a 7770 still would be a shitty 7770? I do..lol

10% extra power is not enough to rise the resolution in Ryse from 900p to 1080p buffoon,hell that extra 10% would probably make the game deliver more consistent frames at 900p since Ryse can drop frame wise to the teens...

See this is why i say you are full of shit you know the 10% from KInect is not enough for 1080p if you are on 900p still you don't stop and prefer to make your self look like butthurt moron.

By the way MS before launch was already achieving 140GB/s DF state so,the 7770 has 72GB/s and can do 1080p with faster frames and higher settings than the xbox one in Ryze,so your excuse of better ESRAM tool is a joke.

This crap was already debunked the 1070GTX has more power than the xbox one X the RX480 and RX580 as well,bandwidth will not change that neither will ram,the xbox one already proved that you totally blind and deft lemming.

Ok let me destroy your shitty argument one more time..lol

Hahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..

1080p 60FPS... is on low but even then it look better than the xbox one,hell the only bad things that stick is the shadows which low blocky,but considering that

This game is 720p on xbox one and is a DX12 game.. hahahhahaaa

The xbox one version,you can clearly see it has better shadows on xbox one and some effects,but the true is this game is 720p on xbox one and still is not lock 60FPS.

You can cleanly drop to 900p on the 7770 and get some things to run better.

SWBF3 looks great even on low,there is no excuse of ESRAM or 10% kinect here..

You mean like Brad Wardel claim DX12 would double the power on xbox one.?

Or how Respawn claim Titanfall was only possible because of the cloud?

Or how Rebellion claim the xbox one ESRAM problems were over and that now games would be 1080p on xbox one.?

Or maybe how Albert Panello Deny that sony had a 40% advantage over the xbox one and claims would be the same?

You just don't get tire of quoting bulshit from people who lie in convenient situations for MS.

I also love how DF is right for some things but when it claims that the XBO X will be bottleneck CPU wise some how they are wrong..

That was feature to feature comparison with Vega 11 against GTX 1080(GP104) and you omitted my effective memory bandwidth considerations, hence

1. missing NCU wouldn't change X1X being superior to my old R9-390X and other poster's RX-480 OC.

2. Polaris IP still has dual subword FP16 feature superiority over any GP104 GPU.

Your post is bullshit.

Has he ever been right about this stuff?

Polaris is not FP16 double pumped stop making shitty claims.

Is a Vega feature and MS CONFIRMED they don't have hardware support for FP16 double pumped,scorpio is not 12TF and would not exceed a 1070GTX let alone a 1080gtx.

None, you have to wonder, spending so much time in this stuff and being so bad with it maybe he should reconsider his life choices. Have you seen his blogs? He has a hardware presentation copy-paste obsession. He's like a hoarder of useless information that he has no clue how to use properly.

1. There's a reason why hermits overclocks CPUs like i7-4790K as high as +4.6 Ghz i.e. the brute force method with narrow thread count. Lower clocked i7-4770K at 4.1 Ghz CPU with better GTX 1080 Ti GPU has no problems with 4K 60 fps ( 83 fps to 150 fps) and I downgraded my GTX 1080 Ti into ~6.5 TFLOPS and still has sustained 60 fps 4K wet track.

Alpha effects are GPU memory bandwidth heavy consumers and many threads CPU model wouldn't solve this problem. Without the wet track's alpha effects, My 980 Ti OC has sustained60 fps 4K.

How could you assert your claims when you don't own both GTX 980 Ti OC and 1080 Ti based gaming PCs?

If your argument is true with MS screwed up with the CPU thread count that bounds strong GPU performance, how come my GTX 1080 Ti still delivered solid 60 fps ( 83 fps to 150 fps) with lower clocked i7-4770K CPU at 4.1 Ghz while my GTX 980 Ti OC dips under 60 fps with higher clocked i7-4790K at 4.6 Ghz CPU?

2. Radeon HD 7770 doesn't have XBO's 10 percent resource reservation for Kinect and no ESRAM API issues to resolve.

Your Ryse video has AMD Radeon HD 7770 Vapor-X OC edition with factory 1100 Mhz clock speed which yields 1.4 TFLOPS.

90 percent of XBO's 1.3 TFLOPS yields 1.17 TFLOPS.

Ryse used MLAA which has less memory bandwidth consumption when compared MSAA 4X.

For Forza M6, I have 8870M (10 CU, 850 Mhz, 78 GB/s), each time I enable MSAA 4X to match XBO's MSAA 4X and frame rate tanks. Settings medium dynamic 1920x1080p.

Wet track... gets hammered down to 30 fps range and it's fine with dry track and no MSAA.

MS has stated X1X doesn't support PS4 Pro's double rate FP16 i.e. math operation (e.g. add, mul) with twice the math operation rate.

Vega's double rate FP16 mode increase math operation rate while Polaris dual subword FP16 feature keeps math operation rate the same.

TFLOPS number refers to ADD and MUL operations rate per second.

Your FP16 argument is a red herring to X1X's superiority over my old R9-390X and other poster's RX-480 OC.

Since you misused my post from Scorpio speculation thread for personality war instead of system war.

YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. The thread is not even "what's in the box" hardware speculation thread.

I thrown in full "Vega 11" within Scorpio speculation thread does NOT materially change X1X is superior to my old R9-390X and other poster's RX-480.

There's more to Vega than just a single NCU improvement and MS has stated X1X has Vega improvements outside of PS4 Pro's double rate FP16 feature which is far more important than continuing DSP compute bias arguments.

Bullshit. Your are wrong. I predicted X1X being superior to R9-390X and RX-480 OC.