DF doubles down on 12TF Series X(Arden)

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NfamousLegend

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#1  Edited By NfamousLegend
Member since 2016 • 424 Posts

Digital foundry does a deep dive in what they believe the PS5 and Series X hardware is capable of. PS5 rated at 9.2TF and Series X at 12TF. Goes into backwards compatability modes and memory speeds. And Nvidia claimed a 2080 Max Q is faster LOL.

https://youtu.be/0PqMj6aSYH0

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Xabiss

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#2 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 3180 Posts

Damn the series X will be a beast if all of this is true. I just hope Microsoft has figured out how to make great exclusives again. They had some decent ones for the Xbox One, but man they need to up it even higher this time around.

Yes, I know they technically do not have exclusives anymore. You know what I mean by it.

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Archangel3371

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#3 Archangel3371  Online
Member since 2004 • 29446 Posts

Sounding very awesome indeed. I’m getting very hyped for next gen to kick off next year. 😁

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Jag85

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#4 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 14073 Posts

That would mean the floating-point performance jump from Gen 8.5 consoles (PS4P and X1X) to Gen 9 consoles (PS5 and XSX) is smaller than the jump from Gen 8 to Gen 8.5 consoles.

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Random_Matt

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#5 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4690 Posts

Key part: What they Believe. You lot keep shifting, current gen losers don't care about power, then all of a sudden give a shit. Flip floppity, don't hurt yourself, do yourself a favour and build a rig.

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x_Hedon

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#6 x_Hedon
Member since 2019 • 131 Posts

@Random_Matt said:

Key part: What they Believe. You lot keep shifting, current gen losers don't care about power, then all of a sudden give a shit. Flip floppity, don't hurt yourself, do yourself a favour and build a rig.

I hate PC gaming. I love console gaming. PS5 and Xbox SX for me.

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Fedor

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#7  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 5982 Posts

Did they confirm the specs with Sony and MS?

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Random_Matt

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#8 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4690 Posts

@fedor said:

Did they confirm the specs with Sony and MS?

Of course not, but I find it strange that DF of all people resort to TF numbers, meaningless twaddle. We all know that AMD always have high TF and end up weaker.

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Fedor

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#9 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 5982 Posts

@Random_Matt: Thats what i figured. DF sure milking this stuff for views.

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tormentos

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#10 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 29681 Posts

@nfamouslegend:

Everything on PS5 still on the air.

The Xbox series X who knows maybe it hit 12 with the GPU it has it is big enough.

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lundy86_4

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#11 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 54917 Posts

@fedor said:

DF sure milking this stuff for views.

Exactly what this boils down to.

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Zero_epyon

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#12 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13730 Posts

Series X at those specs would be really expensive. I doubt this will be the specs for it. Perhaps a midgen refresh?

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Howmakewood

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#13  Edited By Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 6041 Posts

@tormentos said:

@nfamouslegend:

Everything on PS5 still on the air.

The Xbox series X who knows maybe it hit 12 with the GPU it has it is big enough.

its not that far fetched with like 56cu, dont have to push 1700+ clocks, obviously still considerable power draw but the box wasnt the smallest one either so it's def possible.

The ps5 benchmark leaks with 2ghz clocks however sound just weird as we've seen from the 5700xt charts the power efficiency starts diving past 1.8ghz real hard, the 2ghz withstanding cards draw like up to 250watt, they might come with the more refined 7nm+ which should improve the efficiency by around ~10% but still...

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NfamousLegend

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#14 NfamousLegend
Member since 2016 • 424 Posts

@Random_Matt: comparing TF numbers if different architectures or vendors may be somewhat meaningless, but both PS5 and Series X are allegedly using RDNA2 so comparing TF is viable.

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Bluestars

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#15  Edited By Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 553 Posts

In digital foundry we trust!

Listen to the Experts not the butthurts

HAH

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Pedro

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#16 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

Rumors are rumors until stated otherwise.

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BlackShirt20

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#17 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 1349 Posts

@Pedro: The rumors on the PS5 are from AMD. At this point they are not rumors. They are leaks.

As I have said, there is a reason Sony hasn’t revealed any specs on the PS5 and instead is just showing off demo’s here and there.

With that said, it’s obvious both consoles are powerful. Both consoles will produce some outstanding visuals. But Microsoft isn’t messing around.

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R-Gamer

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#18 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1586 Posts

If any of this is true the CEO of Nvidia will have some backtracking to do in regards to the Max Q which wouldn't beat either console.

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Pedro

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#19 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

@BlackShirt20 said:

With that said, it’s obvious both consoles are powerful. Both consoles will produce some outstanding visuals. But Microsoft isn’t messing around.

Careful. There is a select bunch of PC gamers who are threatened by such statements.;)

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LAtech84

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#20 LAtech84  Online
Member since 2017 • 78 Posts

@x_hedon said:
@Random_Matt said:

Key part: What they Believe. You lot keep shifting, current gen losers don't care about power, then all of a sudden give a shit. Flip floppity, don't hurt yourself, do yourself a favour and build a rig.

I hate PC gaming. I love console gaming. PS5 and Xbox SX for me.

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

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Pedro

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#21 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

@latech84 said:

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

Does it matter?

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R-Gamer

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#22 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1586 Posts

@Random_Matt: The RDN Tflop performance is pretty close to Nvidias. This isn't like it was with GCN.

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LAtech84

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#23  Edited By LAtech84  Online
Member since 2017 • 78 Posts

@Pedro said:
@latech84 said:

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

Does it matter?

Yes as I feel people should say what they mean correctly. If you feel otherwise and disagree that is fine. I notice you like to get involved when I criticize console gamers comments. You also are clearly a biased towards/for pro console guy, based on all of your comments I have seen, and are at least moderately anti- PC gaming. You don't have to respond every-time I write something, as we always just disagree with each other on certain things and we just waste time disagreeing until we agree to let it go.

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Random_Matt

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#24 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4690 Posts

@latech84 said:
@Pedro said:
@latech84 said:

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

Does it matter?

Yes as I feel people should say what they mean correctly. If you feel otherwise and disagree that is fine. I notice you like to get involved when I criticize console gamers comments. You also are clearly a biased towards/for pro console guy, based on all of your comments I have seen, and are at least moderately anti- PC gaming. You don't have to respond every-time I write something, as we always just disagree with each other on certain things and we just waste time disagreeing until we agree to let it go.

Seriously words are meaningless, deep down all of us really do not care what others do. This is a forum, people love to talk crap, no one really cares.

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x_Hedon

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#25 x_Hedon
Member since 2019 • 131 Posts

@latech84 said:
@x_hedon said:
@Random_Matt said:

Key part: What they Believe. You lot keep shifting, current gen losers don't care about power, then all of a sudden give a shit. Flip floppity, don't hurt yourself, do yourself a favour and build a rig.

I hate PC gaming. I love console gaming. PS5 and Xbox SX for me.

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

I prefer console gaming.

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LAtech84

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#26 LAtech84  Online
Member since 2017 • 78 Posts

@x_hedon said:
@latech84 said:
@x_hedon said:
@Random_Matt said:

Key part: What they Believe. You lot keep shifting, current gen losers don't care about power, then all of a sudden give a shit. Flip floppity, don't hurt yourself, do yourself a favour and build a rig.

I hate PC gaming. I love console gaming. PS5 and Xbox SX for me.

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

I prefer console gaming.

Thank you, I appreciate the honesty.

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LAtech84

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#27 LAtech84  Online
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@Random_Matt said:
@latech84 said:
@Pedro said:
@latech84 said:

Hate is a strong word, why not just say you prefer console gaming?

Does it matter?

Yes as I feel people should say what they mean correctly. If you feel otherwise and disagree that is fine. I notice you like to get involved when I criticize console gamers comments. You also are clearly a biased towards/for pro console guy, based on all of your comments I have seen, and are at least moderately anti- PC gaming. You don't have to respond every-time I write something, as we always just disagree with each other on certain things and we just waste time disagreeing until we agree to let it go.

Seriously words are meaningless, deep down all of us really do not care what others do. This is a forum, people love to talk crap, no one really cares.

I understand, I get what you are saying, I do seem to care a lot about how people word things and if their honest with what their saying personally, but I know most don't care on these forums, some may say I take things too seriously but I am very passionate about things and so I do tend to care more about things like what I wrote than most others. Thanks.

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04dcarraher

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#28  Edited By 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23314 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@Random_Matt: The RDN Tflop performance is pretty close to Nvidias. This isn't like it was with GCN.

Actually, No RTX 2070 having 7.4TF and has a TDP of 175w... VS RX 5700XT's 9.7 TF and has a TDP of 225w. And yet only is on average about 5% faster.

Let alone the fact that RX 5700XT is 7nm vs RTX's 12nm node.....

Unless AMD increases RNDA's 2.0 performance per watt by more than 20% without using 7nm+ EUV..... RNDA's performance is not that close to Nvidia's performance per watt or TFLOP numbers.

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ronvalencia

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#29  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28521 Posts

@Random_Matt said:
@fedor said:

Did they confirm the specs with Sony and MS?

Of course not, but I find it strange that DF of all people resort to TF numbers, meaningless twaddle. We all know that AMD always have high TF and end up weaker.

Note that NVIDIA's Turning RTX 2080 TI has TFLOPS high ground i.e. 17.186 TFLOPS FP32 shader compute.

Normal RTX 2080 has about +11 to 12 TFLOPS depending on TDP condition and cooling solution.

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#30  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28521 Posts

@04dcarraher said:
@r-gamer said:

@Random_Matt: The RDN Tflop performance is pretty close to Nvidias. This isn't like it was with GCN.

Actually, No RTX 2070 having 7.4TF and has a TDP of 175w... VS RX 5700XT's 9.7 TF and has a TDP of 225w. And yet only is on average about 5% faster.

Let alone the fact that RX 5700XT is 7nm vs RTX's 12nm node.....

Unless AMD increases RNDA's 2.0 performance per watt by more than 20% without using 7nm+ EUV..... RNDA's performance is not that close to Nvidia's performance per watt or TFLOP numbers.

Note that

1. RTX 2070 has split INT32 and FP32 units, hence TIOPS and TFLOPS are independent from each other.

Your argument has hidden the amount of independant shader math operation per second.

2. RTX 2070 can boost beyond 1900Mhz which yields 8.755 TFLOPS (FP32) and ~8.7 TIOPS (INT32)

You quoted paper specs which hides NVIDIA's actual boost modes.

Both my reference MSI GTX 1080 Ti and MSI RTX 2080 Ti (GX TRIO) exceeds paper specs mentioned in techpowerup.

Reference RX 5700XT's 9.7 TFLOPS is max boost mode while game boost mode at 1755 Mhz yields 8.985 TFLOPS. RX-5700 XT would need non-reference or undervolt to exceed game boost mode mode.

Recent GPU designs will boost when there's extra TDP headroom.

TFLOPS means little when clock speed also influence raster hardware e.g. RX 5700 with RX 5700 XT BIOS has nearly similar results! Shader TFLOPS doesn't include I/O and fix function raster hardware.

RDNA v1 shader ALU shares INT and FP workloads.

2Ghz PS5 GPU would have superior raster hardware configuration when compared to stock RX 5700 XT.

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BlackShirt20

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#31 BlackShirt20
Member since 2005 • 1349 Posts

@ronvalencia: Console is better. That’s all I got from your post.

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#32 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

@latech84 said:

Yes as I feel people should say what they mean correctly. If you feel otherwise and disagree that is fine. I notice you like to get involved when I criticize console gamers comments. You also are clearly a biased towards/for pro console guy, based on all of your comments I have seen, and are at least moderately anti- PC gaming. You don't have to respond every-time I write something, as we always just disagree with each other on certain things and we just waste time disagreeing until we agree to let it go.

Well he hates PC gaming. Get over. Move on with your life. In the same manner that you are saying people should say what they mean correctly you claim that I respond to you every-time. Time to apply your recommendation to yourself. ;)

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#33 phbz  Online
Member since 2009 • 5042 Posts

The real question here is how long until hermits start posting how it is impossible to play a game at 60fps without going blind.

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#34 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

@phbz said:

The real question here is how long until hermits start posting how it is impossible to play a game at 60fps without going blind.

That box has been checked off a while ago.

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lundy86_4

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#35 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 54917 Posts

@phbz said:

The real question here is how long until hermits start posting how it is impossible to play a game at 60fps without going blind.

In all fairness, less than 60 kind of annoys me... It does take me a bit to get in the groove lol. Definitely not unplayable.

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ronvalencia

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#36  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28521 Posts
@Jag85 said:

That would mean the floating-point performance jump from Gen 8.5 consoles (PS4P and X1X) to Gen 9 consoles (PS5 and XSX) is smaller than the jump from Gen 8 to Gen 8.5 consoles.

GPU geometry and shader TFLOPS jump from PS4 to PS4 Pro is about 2.3X cripped by 224 GB/s memory bandwdith which leads to bias shader compute to 2MB L2 cache software tiling programming tricks.

Polaris ROPS doesn't have direct connection to 2MB L2 cache which is fixed with full Vega and NAVI ROPS. X1X GPU ROPS has 2MB render cache semi-custom improvement.

XBO has Kinect interference that reduced GPU size i.e. 32 MB + 8 MB ESRAM consumes about 1/3 of the APU chip. Without ESRAM workaround, XBO APU chip could have 28 CU GCN i.e. second tier near Tonga Pro class below Hawaii's 40/44 CU class.

From PS4 Pro GPU to 9.2 TFLOPS PS5 GPU is about 2.2X. There's ~1 TFLOPS from Zen 2 CPU which is about 10X from Jagaur CPU.

At the same clock speed, NAVI 10 has 8 geometry inputs per cycle while PS4 Pro has 4 geometry inputs per cycle, hence it's 2X on geometry input per cycle.

NAVI 10 with 2Ghz clock speed with geometry improvements, it yields about 4.3X geometry input per cycle.

TFLOPS arguments are nearly useless without input geometry and read/write raster hardware!

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Random_Matt

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#37 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4690 Posts

@lundy86_4 said:
@phbz said:

The real question here is how long until hermits start posting how it is impossible to play a game at 60fps without going blind.

In all fairness, less than 60 kind of annoys me... It does take me a bit to get in the groove lol. Definitely not unplayable.

60 is the new 30 for me, playable if very consistent. 144 is the new 60, glorious.

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Pedro

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#38 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

@lundy86_4 said:

In all fairness, less than 60 kind of annoys me... It does take me a bit to get in the groove lol. Definitely not unplayable.

Some people speak as if its a fact that its unplayable.

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GoldenElementXL

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#39 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3878 Posts

@BlackShirt20: The PS5 rumors are from AMD?

1 - That doesn’t make sense

2 - Source?

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ronvalencia

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#40  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28521 Posts

@BlackShirt20 said:

@ronvalencia: Console is better. That’s all I got from your post.

For PS5 target, re-flash RX 5700's BIOS with RX 5700 XT Anniversary Edition BIOS (with 1980 Mhz max boost, 1830 Mhz game boost) for near PS5 results. AMD limits boost modes with RX 5700's BIOS which is restored with RX 5700 XT BIOS.

RT HW and VRS (Variable Rate Shading) features are missing on NAVI 10/RDNA v1.

SONY is an OEM which can factory configure their hardware.

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Fedor

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#41 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 5982 Posts

@BlackShirt20: Why are you still lying?

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LAtech84

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#42 LAtech84  Online
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@Pedro said:
@latech84 said:

Yes as I feel people should say what they mean correctly. If you feel otherwise and disagree that is fine. I notice you like to get involved when I criticize console gamers comments. You also are clearly a biased towards/for pro console guy, based on all of your comments I have seen, and are at least moderately anti- PC gaming. You don't have to respond every-time I write something, as we always just disagree with each other on certain things and we just waste time disagreeing until we agree to let it go.

Well he hates PC gaming. Get over. Move on with your life. In the same manner that you are saying people should say what they mean correctly you claim that I respond to you every-time. Time to apply your recommendation to yourself. ;)

He changed his wording when he replied to me and did not argue that he hates it, so your wrong. Also I ignore most of your posts and most stupid posts from console gamers so your wrong there as well. Also Hate is a super string word that people use to easily as if someone really hated PC gaming they have mental problems. Now do me a favor and never talk to me on these forums again, I am done with you. Please just stop contacting me. I am starting to really not like you and want to stop all future communication.

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jahnee

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#43 jahnee
Member since 2005 • 4034 Posts

If those specs are true then the XsX is one heck of a beast. But next gen consoles will still be closer than ever. The true next gen experience will be more stable game experiences with many more extra gameplay elements happening all at once. The true power of the zen2 cpu will be felt, and thus this gen is a bigger jump than the one before.

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#44  Edited By hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 19807 Posts

Interesting. It seems like Sony are sticking pretty hard to that price/performance ratio... they don't want to make the console too expensive. Whereas MS are saying f*ck it, we'll go for more power, but we'll probably have to charge US$100 more than PS5 (which I'm more than willing to spend).

Plus MS are supposedly going to have that cheaper model (Series S?). Interesting to see what that ends up being.

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#45 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 29681 Posts

@hrt_rulz01:

The spec of the ps5 are unknown,the test done to the soc was for backward compatibility it showed 3 speeds but on the native speed didn't show the amount of CU.

It could very well be like the pro once it runs in normal PS4 mode 18 CU get lock but that doesn't mean they are not there.

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ronvalencia

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#46  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28521 Posts

@goldenelementxl said:

@BlackShirt20: The PS5 rumors are from AMD?

1 - That doesn’t make sense

2 - Source?

For PS4/PS4 Pro backward compatibility ("butterfly" design requirement), 36 CU RDNA make sense from "hit-the-metal" programming point of view.

RDNA with wave64 mode (2 cycle latency) will run GCN wave64 instruction set (four cycle latency) as is.

RDNA supports CUDA like wave32 mode without 2 or 4 cycle latencies.

The leak PS5 GPU information shows 2Ghz (PS5) , 0.911 Ghz (PS4 Pro) and 0.8 Ghz (PS4) modes.

36 CU RDNA can divide to PS4's 18 CU mode.

In the old Amiga/PC programming days, data resource arrival timings are made with CPU's clock speed timings. CPU upgrade can cause backwards compatibility problems, hence CPU turbo switch (PC) or CPU accelerator (Amiga) disable switch.

Xbox One X's dev kit shows "non-butterfly" 12 CU, 40 CU and 44 CU scaling runtime compatibility, hence XBO DirectX APIs are closer PC's DirectX APIs.

PC's DirectX has data resource tracking, hence it can scale hardware power up or down with minimal data resource arrival mismatch, hence removing the need for PC's turbo switch.

Modern PCs has backward compatibility issues when old school PC DOS games runs too fast or glitches.

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#47 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 37144 Posts

@latech84 said:

He changed his wording when he replied to me and did not argue that he hates it, so your wrong. Also I ignore most of your posts and most stupid posts from console gamers so your wrong there as well. Also Hate is a super string word that people use to easily as if someone really hated PC gaming they have mental problems. Now do me a favor and never talk to me on these forums again, I am done with you. Please just stop contacting me. I am starting to really not like you and want to stop all future communication.

If you don't like my responses to your overly sensitive comments avoid the forums. Apparently its too much for you. :)

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sakaiXx

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#48 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 7082 Posts

Dang, I guess the recent articles about mid gen PS5 SKU has some grounds. Come on Sony just break the bank and take the loses.

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I_P_Daily

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#49  Edited By I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 14508 Posts

@Pedro said:
@latech84 said:

He changed his wording when he replied to me and did not argue that he hates it, so your wrong. Also I ignore most of your posts and most stupid posts from console gamers so your wrong there as well. Also Hate is a super string word that people use to easily as if someone really hated PC gaming they have mental problems. Now do me a favor and never talk to me on these forums again, I am done with you. Please just stop contacting me. I am starting to really not like you and want to stop all future communication.

If you don't like my responses to your overly sensitive comments avoid the forums. Apparently its too much for you. :)

Watch out he's gonna blow with the hate pedro, he did with me, wants to punch my head in, in real life lol.

I can't remember which thread it was but it was funny as :)

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HitmanActual

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#50 HitmanActual
Member since 2013 • 1118 Posts

Confirmed. MS Beast Box incoming.