Devs reportedly questioning the need for ps5 Pro - PSU

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TheEroica

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#1  Edited By TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 22877 Posts

Greetings.... Sony is apparently being questioned by Devs as to a reason for the PS5 pro when the base model has yet to reach its limits... Playstation friendly reports. This is the top story trending on N4G currently.

First thing I thought when leaks started was why? They have yet to demonstrate a game that could not be done on ps4 so why do we need a PS5 Pro? I wonder what the tactic here is? Is Sony providing this device as a way to maintain trends despite its lack of necessity? Do they believe their fanbase will needlessly spend the money on it given its current sales against its lackluster generation of games? Trends may say yes.... Part of me feels like despite a "need" for the console Sony counts on a mid Gen refresh as a revenue source... The existence of ps5 pro won't be a benefit to gamers necessarily, but it will allow Sony to fulfill projected income as they have done the past several generations.

I can't say I've seen a generation less worthy of a mid Gen refresh. Sony and Microsoft have yet to fulfill the promise of "next Gen" gaming. Not saying it's a bad Gen or they have nothing to play... But the possibility of refresh consoles this Gen are purely corporate decisions... Not gamer ones.

https://www.psu.com/news/devs-reportedly-question-why-ps5-pro-is-happening-as-they-feel-they-arent-making-the-most-out-of-ps5/

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Chutebox

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#2 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50646 Posts

This has been the worst gen, by far.

And this has been my standing, no point in the "Pro" since I feel they really haven't been pushing it at all.

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Archangel3371

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#3 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44474 Posts

Yep, just better off waiting for the PS6 instead.

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hardwenzen

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#4  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39691 Posts

the system isn't even officially announced, and there's already so much negativity and "why" surrounding it lol. this can't be good for sales😂

and the the "why" from me is not because i don't want an upgrade, but WHY are they even bothering releasing a so called upgrade, when its using the same trash tier cpu, the same cpu that is already capped for some time now. It makes zero sense. Its as if Jim Ryan designed it.

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robert_sparkes

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#5 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 7277 Posts

Think I'll wait until ps6 don't really feel the need for it but I know I'll be interested when it's announced. Still shocked that many games can't hit 4k 60 consistently.

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Nonstop-Madness

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#6 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12354 Posts

We're long past the phase where devs *need* mid gen or next gen hardware.

That being said, better hardware could make it easier to "brute force" things. It should also help them prepare for actual next gen hardware and start using more ray tracing etc.

---

Re: gamers: some folks just want better performance.

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osan0

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#7 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17868 Posts

A very good question from devs. That was also my reaction.

Seriously, imho, i think MS and Sony should let this be a long gen and don't bother with a PS6 until such time as a GPU capable of full path tracing at 1600P 60FPS can be crammed into a console for 500 ish bucks (maybe 600 depending on inflation :P).

The industry has a cost of production problem...why the hell is anyone thinking of a Pro model?

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Gifford38

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#8  Edited By Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 7275 Posts

@Chutebox said:

This has been the worst gen, by far.

And this has been my standing, no point in the "Pro" since I feel they really haven't been pushing it at all.

sucks to because ps5 and series x is so much better console wise than last gen. the ssd makes the difference. ps5 runs so much smoother than the jet engine ps4.

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navyguy21

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#9 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17455 Posts

Pro would be worth it if they put most of the "Pro" budget toward the CPU.

We are in yet another generation that is being held back by lack of CPU power. PS5 and Series X/S are running on a low powered AMD 3600/3700. Thats not going to cut it for 60fps without sufficient power

They need to put more into the CPU than they do, but then fanboys will cry and fight about graphics and "true" 4k.

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R4gn4r0k

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#10 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46564 Posts

I just want it twice the size of a regular 1000 PS5

and in the shape of a gamecube.

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DaVillain

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#11  Edited By DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56347 Posts
@Chutebox said:

This has been the worst gen, by far.

And this has been my standing, no point in the "Pro" since I feel they really haven't been pushing it at all.

Not the worst gen by any means, just disappointing due to the cost of making games and the time developers need is just too much for this gen.

It's gonna take few more years of pushing the base PS5 to it's limits and yeah, I see no point of releasing a mid-gen refresh.

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sealionact

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#12 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 9836 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:

I just want it twice the size of a regular 1000 PS5

and in the shape of a gamecube.

I wonder if it’s going to have a plastic peg to lay it horizontally again?

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Saint-George

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#13 Saint-George
Member since 2023 • 1375 Posts

Cows will avoid this like the plague......poor saps 🤣😂

Yea its a dev saying it..
Yea its a dev saying it..

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Pedro

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#14  Edited By Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70240 Posts

But Sony fannies are trying to convince themselves Xbox fannies are triggered over this mid gen upgrade.😂

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Antwan3K

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#15  Edited By Antwan3K
Member since 2005 • 8320 Posts

i'm all for new hardware options but i think it's safe to say that mid-gen refreshes didn't exactly set the world on fire last generation..

if anything, the very idea of "generations" should be revisited since these are just closed-box PCs at this point..

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hardwenzen

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#16  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39691 Posts

@sealionact: I can tell this Pro is getting you very nervous. If MS has nothing in response, you're done. Its over.

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uninspiredcup

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#17 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59285 Posts

A modern 32X would the problem.

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Macutchi

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#18 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 10537 Posts

sucks that most games cannot run their "quality" mode at an acceptable framerate on the base hardware. if the pro isn't going to address that it makes it completely pointless

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templecow90999

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#19 templecow90999
Member since 2021 • 918 Posts

I'm surprised devs would say that. More hardware = more opportunities to release broken games and nickel and dime your customers

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Heil68

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#20 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60721 Posts

Give me the PS6!

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lamprey263

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#21 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44656 Posts

Devs are barely using the optimization tools of the PS5 but the gaming media and gamers are okay with that as long as the PlayStation version performs better than on Xbox.

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mrbojangles25

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#22  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58479 Posts

I don't know, I mean, I feel like they're not needed.

Not a game developer, but I feel like the industry has a real problem with optimizing their releases or polishing them. Seems like if they're a.) saying the PS5 hasn't reached its limits, but b.) also releasing games that perform poorly despite having good hardware powering it...then they're right but for the wrong reasons?

This generation has been weird as hell, though. PS5 had a slow roll out due to COVID and supply issues, so it feels like it had a late start in many respects. Add to this the complete lack of a large game library, the death of PSVR, price changes...it just seems like a "pro" version of a console that isn't even that old is the last thing that needs doing.

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mrbojangles25

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#23 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58479 Posts
@Macutchi said:

sucks that most games cannot run their "quality" mode at an acceptable framerate on the base hardware. if the pro isn't going to address that it makes it completely pointless

Does anyone actually think it will?

Didn't they market the PS5 as a "capable 4K" device, with potential for 8K? It can barely do 4K at a decent quality and framerate. I think a PS5 Pro could probably do 4K at quality or framerate, but not both.

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TheEroica

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#24 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 22877 Posts

@Heil68 said:

Give me the PS6!

It doesn't fit sonys agenda right now.... Gotta get that milk first baby....

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GhostOfGolden

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#25 GhostOfGolden
Member since 2023 • 2613 Posts

The other day when Christopher Dring was talking about Xbox and the things he was hearing at GDC, this board was all like “who is this guy?” I’ve never heard of him.” “Who cares about this guys opinion?” Now that he heard critical discussion from devs surrounding the PS5 Pro y‘all want to have a discussion… 🤷🏾‍♂️😂

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Macutchi

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#26  Edited By Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 10537 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Macutchi said:

sucks that most games cannot run their "quality" mode at an acceptable framerate on the base hardware. if the pro isn't going to address that it makes it completely pointless

Does anyone actually think it will?

Didn't they market the PS5 as a "capable 4K" device, with potential for 8K? It can barely do 4K at a decent quality and framerate. I think a PS5 Pro could probably do 4K at quality or framerate, but not both.

i don't know, but if not, why bother? they can't barely do 4k at a decent quality and framerate, they can't do it full stop. there may be an exception which proves the rule but in general anything remotely resembling aaa can't pull it off i.e. a playable framerate, which makes it a pointless mode

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NfamousLegend

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#27 NfamousLegend
Member since 2016 • 1009 Posts

Consoles have their limitations. Unless a good deal of people are willing to shell out $700 or more don't expect a massive upgrade that rivals high-end pc. I think Sony can sell this for $500-550 and knock the PS5 Amateur down to $399. At those prices it will be appealing.

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super600

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#28  Edited By super600  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 33103 Posts

The price of both the series X and ps5 are still quite high in canada. The series x still costs around $650 in canada and the ps5 ranges from $579-$650 depending on the model. A PS5 pro will likely cost $700+ unless something changes. I don't think their is a justification for a mid gen upgrade this time because the base consoles still cost a lot of money to get, there aren't many exclusives for them and better looking games isn't as big of a selling point compared to 4k support when the CPU limits things and the resolution boost isn't going to be huge.

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hardwenzen

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#29 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39691 Posts

@super600 said:

The price of both the series X and ps5 are still quite high in canada. The series x still costs around $650 in canada and the ps5 ranges from $579-$650 depending on the model. A PS5 pro will likely cost $700+ unless something changes. I don't think their is a justification for a mid gen upgrade this time because the base consoles still cost a lot of money to get, there aren't many exclusives for them and better looking games isn't as big of a selling point compared to 4k support.

You still on the S?

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sealionact

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#30 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 9836 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

@sealionact: I can tell this Pro is getting you very nervous. If MS has nothing in response, you're done. Its over.

If MS had something in response, I’d be nervous. Nervous that MS are as stupid as Sony.

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hardwenzen

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#31 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39691 Posts

@sealionact said:
@hardwenzen said:

@sealionact: I can tell this Pro is getting you very nervous. If MS has nothing in response, you're done. Its over.

If MS had something in response, I’d be nervous. Nervous that MS are as stupid as Sony.

That's only because you have no expectations from them anymore. And they're stupid. Losing billions over the years from GP is the definition of stupidity.

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WitIsWisdom

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#32  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9592 Posts

Day 1.. haters can hate. I prefer console gaming and I'll take upgrades when and where I can get them. By the time it releases which is rumored late this year it will have been 4 years since the PS5 released. The PS4 pro released 3 years after the PS4. Sure there was more of a reason I suppose, but if I can run my games at better resolutions and frame rates then why the hell not? Hopefully the price of the PS5 drops as well so we can actually start the next generationsince we are still being held back by last gen consoles. I'm sure it will also offer better internet connection capabilities, and less bog downs which lead to frame drops and hanging. Nearly 50 percent stronger means it's about as large of an increase from the PS4 Pro to the base PS5, which is a very noticeable difference in many different aspects.

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R4gn4r0k

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#33 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46564 Posts

@sealionact said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

I just want it twice the size of a regular 1000 PS5

and in the shape of a gamecube.

I wonder if it’s going to have a plastic peg to lay it horizontally again?

I was unfortunate enough to come across a picture of that plastic peg the other day and I felt it was the biggest crime humanity has ever commited.

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KathaarianCode

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#34 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3488 Posts

I hope the Pro is as loud as my PS4 Pro was. I like to feel and listen the horse power of my electronics.

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Saint-George

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#35 Saint-George
Member since 2023 • 1375 Posts

@kathaariancode said:

I hope the Pro is as loud as my PS4 Pro was. I like to feel and listen the horse power of my electronics.

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KathaarianCode

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#36 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3488 Posts

@saint-george: Exactly, and that's with the headphones on.

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super600

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#37  Edited By super600  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 33103 Posts
@hardwenzen said:
@super600 said:

The price of both the series X and ps5 are still quite high in canada. The series x still costs around $650 in canada and the ps5 ranges from $579-$650 depending on the model. A PS5 pro will likely cost $700+ unless something changes. I don't think their is a justification for a mid gen upgrade this time because the base consoles still cost a lot of money to get, there aren't many exclusives for them and better looking games isn't as big of a selling point compared to 4k support.

You still on the S?

Obviously. I plan to upgrade to an X in june or july. I have just under 500 CAD in MS reward points saved up right now. Also obviously you can trade in your old consoles for the ps5 pro but I don't think most people are going to take advantage of that.

@kathaariancode

Thank god the PS5 is much quieter. My cousins ps4 was literally a jet engine when it turned on.

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sealionact

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#38 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 9836 Posts

@WitIsWisdom: It’s not about hating, it’s about being realistic enough to know that there will be differences between ps5 and pro games, but nowhere near the difference between ps4 and pro.

The CPU gets a 10% bump, which means it’s the same as an XSX. Framerates will get about a 30% bump meaning games using performance modes at 30fps will run at 40fps on pro. If that.

Resolutions won’t go above the 4K that some ps5 games hit now.

Visually things will be better with RT

and textures….if the devs update games for the pro, and why would they do that if they don’t charge for the upgrade?

Generational changes led to jaw dropping reactions up until ps3/x360 but since then it’s been gradual improvements. Mid gen upgrades are barely noticeable.

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Heil68

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#39 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60721 Posts

@TheEroica said:
@Heil68 said:

Give me the PS6!

It doesn't fit sonys agenda right now.... Gotta get that milk first baby....

Isn't that the case with all console makers? Why arent we seeing a Switch 2?

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hrt_rulz01

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#40 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 22413 Posts

I've thought this all along... there's no need for it.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#41 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16590 Posts

@sealionact said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

I just want it twice the size of a regular 1000 PS5

and in the shape of a gamecube.

I wonder if it’s going to have a plastic peg to lay it horizontally again?

lmao...just like they copied xbox controller, sony has no creativity.

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WitIsWisdom

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#42  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9592 Posts

@sealionact: Okay, well you probably know more than I do about the tech inside the machines and how they work, but what about PSSR, the AI upscaling, 45% faster rendering, and the 35% boost in audio quality, or that they will be using an RDNA 3/4 hybrid for 2 to 4 times increase in ray tracing?

I understand its not as large of a leap as the PS4 to the PS4 Pro, but aren't we starting to reach diminishing returns?

The things you mentioned are the raw power incrimentals but don't take all of these things into accountability right? The increase in power only takes the 45% faster rendering into consideration and not the new tricks for upscaling and improved framerates... or am I missing something?

Not being catty or anything, seriously asking so I can get more of a heads up, even though I'm getting one day 1 doesn't mean I don't want to understand it better or know roughly what to expect.

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sealionact

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#43 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 9836 Posts

@WitIsWisdom: Honestly, what does 35% boost in audio quality mean? Bitrates? If there’s one area that isn’t lacking in video games these days it’s audio. Studios will show you the difference on a spectral anyliser but the human ear is already being outperformed by audio tech years ago.

Ray tracing performance will be better. Games struggling to hit 30 fps @4k will hit 30fps in performance mode. Same with games at 60fps…but only if current games dip no more than 10-12 fps below target. The current CPU simply can’t handle the demands of a graphically intense 4K game at 60fps with RT.

I bought the X1X, and the media assured me image quality was much better on enhanced games…but I could only just about tell the difference.

Difference with last gen pro machines is that the CPUs got roughly a 40% bump, so that games that originally ran at 30fps managed to hit 60fps on the same settings….experts are telling us that won’t be the case with the ps5 pro because devs haven’t pushed the vanilla ps5 to its limits yet, and when they do the pro won’t be able to make much of a difference.

Upscaling from what…1080p to 4K? AI upscaling might be better than what we have now, but it’s still upscaling which current consoles do to older games. 4K to 8k? Doubt it will appeal to many just yet.

I’m not bashing Sony, I don’t see the point in an eventual XSX pro either.

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WitIsWisdom

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#44  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 9592 Posts

@sealionact: Okay, I'm not saying you're wrong, because honestly I'm going to have to wait and see (like we all will), but there would be absolutely no point for SONY to release a console that only pushes an extra 10 fps and better raytracing with no other selling features. Won't the PSSR take that 40 to 45fps (on games that were at 30 fps) and make it look and feel like at least 60? I think it's more the tech they are using rather than a raw increase in strength... I feel like they are pushing PSSR and AI upscaling (with a 45% increase in power) to take 4k30 to at least 4k60.

I don't think the power increase is the real selling point just like the power increase of this generation of consoles wasn't really the main selling point but more the SSDs.

Honestly I don't care what kind of wizardry they use or if it's native or not.. if it looks, feels, and plays like 4k60 baseline without sacrifice that sure as hell beats what we have in a most games with current consoles already on the market.

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TheEroica

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#45 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 22877 Posts

@Heil68 said:
@TheEroica said:
@Heil68 said:

Give me the PS6!

It doesn't fit sonys agenda right now.... Gotta get that milk first baby....

Isn't that the case with all console makers? Why arent we seeing a Switch 2?

Yes... . It's as Sven said in his speech.... Enormous greed. That anyone would be in these corporations corner is crazy. I'm a system warrior for gamers only... Corporations can get effed. They're not gamers.

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kuu2

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#46 kuu2
Member since 2005 • 12066 Posts

I was told mid gen upgrades were needed this gen.

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hardwenzen

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#47 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39691 Posts

@kuu2 said:

I was told mid gen upgrades were needed this gen.

You're just butthurt because you ain't getting one. Instead, a digital only series x is what you'll get, and that is only if you're lucky. The future is grim, little kuu2.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#48 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13669 Posts

@Chutebox said:

This has been the worst gen, by far.

And this has been my standing, no point in the "Pro" since I feel they really haven't been pushing it at all.

100%. And they sold these consoles on promises of being amazing. They weren't... Now they want I assume another $500 for that amazing experience. Sounds like a hustle.

I have to wonder if the philosophy has changed. The more resources you give someone, the less they optimise. I don't think anything apart from a some of the first party games are highly optimised.

I was playing Arkham City the other day and I was thinking, how did they get all this going with 512MBs of RAM on consoles.

Now it's more like, games are designed for the infinite resources of the PC, squeezed to work on consoles and shocker, developers haven't got time and money to make it work on the Series S. When I think of the kind of games developers were making for past consoles, like Perfect Dark on the N64. Crysis on Xbox 360... I have a hard time believing that the Series S is incapable with a lot of these games.

Most 3rd party games look like improved 8th gen games to me anyway. And now they're being given more resources, so they can do less with them and complain more on twitter?

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kuu2

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#49 kuu2
Member since 2005 • 12066 Posts

@hardwenzen said:
@kuu2 said:

I was told mid gen upgrades were needed this gen.

You're just butthurt because you ain't getting one. Instead, a digital only series x is what you'll get, and that is only if you're lucky. The future is grim, little kuu2.

A pro to play 3rd party Xbox games that have been out for years.

Youre right your future is very grim on a Sony console.

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hardwenzen

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#50 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39691 Posts

@kuu2 said:
@hardwenzen said:
@kuu2 said:

I was told mid gen upgrades were needed this gen.

You're just butthurt because you ain't getting one. Instead, a digital only series x is what you'll get, and that is only if you're lucky. The future is grim, little kuu2.

A pro to play 3rd party Xbox games that have been out for years.

Youre right your future is very grim on a Sony console.

Kuu please. We both know that the only company in big danger are microsoft, not Sony. Look at the success of Helldivers2, a simple Horde Mode style game. MS can only wish for this kind of success with their failed Halo Infinite and Redfall.