Dear Sony, I am expecting X1 BC level upgrades when it comes to PS5 BC of PS4

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Avatar image for 2mrw
#1 Edited by 2mrw (5868 posts) -

To be honest the the efforts that MS put into BC of X1 is very commendable and praise worthy and the results are outstanding. Some games had double the performance boost and 4K resolution upgrades. Of course X1 is still shit and pointless but the concept has been proven and it works.

Now similarly to MS situation, I would expect the PS5 to run PS4 games with a significant upgrades in terms of resolution and a semi flawless 30 fps if not higher than 30 fps.

I would be very disappointed if PS5 can just run PS4 games

What do you think SW?

Avatar image for Sevenizz
#2 Posted by Sevenizz (4026 posts) -

I think you’ll get your wish. Sony has a history of copying Xbox innovations on future consoles.

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#3 Posted by I_P_Daily (12366 posts) -

@2mrw: I mean do you cows really think Sony is going to put in time & effort for you cows for free? they hardly put an effort into gameplay for their first party games, so you sure as shit won't be getting that. The only way you're getting that is through remasters, they don't call you guys cows for nothing you know LOL.

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#4 Posted by phbz (4599 posts) -

Cows don't even want to play old games, their words.

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#5 Posted by adsparky (1438 posts) -

It would be good, but if it has backwards compatibility with all previous generations then i'm super sold, even i'll get two at launch.

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#6 Edited by Livecommander (1076 posts) -

Effort ? That effort should been used in different departments if you ask me.

The real question is will you be able to just put your ps4 disc in and just play.

It would be quite annoying if its the desperate virtual stretching that ms implemented

Next thing you know we have to wait 3 years after launch for a some games to become bc lol

Avatar image for FinalFighters
#7 Edited by FinalFighters (3203 posts) -

yeah, im hoping for the same thing too.

i am really disappointed with the PS4 Pro - almost all the games that are "enhanced" have been running 1440p on the PS4 Pro; Where as they are able to run 4K on the Xbox One X (fallout 4, hitman, sonic team racing, Metro Exodus, hellblade senua's sacrifice, etc etc).

So hopefully Sony announce that the PS5 will be either: fully BC with PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 games, OR at the very least have all BC PS4 games run at a higher resolution..That will be a day one purchase from me.

If not then im buying the next xbox console.

Avatar image for tormentos
#8 Edited by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@Sevenizz:

Hahahahaa... Nintendo did that first with the 3ds,one of the models actually has better hardware than the older model and frames and image is a little better.

Not to mention the ps2 had a option to smooth out ps1 games.

Avatar image for tormentos
#9 Posted by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@i_p_daily:

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-backwards-compatiblity-faster-performance-patent/

Oh oh...

Thank God Sony doesn't put effort into gamplay,and still its games kick Ms first party game asses,imagine if they did.. lol

Avatar image for i_p_daily
#10 Posted by I_P_Daily (12366 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@i_p_daily:

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-backwards-compatiblity-faster-performance-patent/

Oh oh...

Thank God Sony doesn't put effort into gamplay,and still its movies kick Ms first party game asses,imagine if they did.. lol

Fixed that for you.

Avatar image for Ant_17
#11 Posted by Ant_17 (12750 posts) -

I'll be fine with just PS2 style BC.

I don't need a 20gb game tunring into 60gb cause they upped the textures.

Avatar image for Livecommander
#12 Posted by Livecommander (1076 posts) -

@i_p_daily: quantum break was a good movie

Why didnt it get the heavy hitter praise that sonys got ?

Why were lems hyping it ? Why do you look like a fool now ? Lol

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#13 Edited by ronvalencia (28203 posts) -

@2mrw said:

To be honest the the efforts that MS put into BC of X1 is very commendable and praise worthy and the results are outstanding. Some games had double the performance boost and 4K resolution upgrades. Of course X1 is still shit and pointless but the concept has been proven and it works.

Now similarly to MS situation, I would expect the PS5 to run PS4 games with a significant upgrades in terms of resolution and a semi flawless 30 fps if not higher than 30 fps.

I would be very disappointed if PS5 can just run PS4 games

What do you think SW?

Both Xbox One and Xbox 360 runs on Direct3D API and these APIs was baked into micro-coding translation engine on both systems.

On PCs, powerful CPUs handles Direct3D API translation to GPU's instruction set calls via complex driver software.

My point, Xbox's Direct3D is PC Direct3D relative, hence Xbox One's PC like BC behavior with Xbox 360 games.

3rd party Xbox 360 emulator on PC doesn't even need Xbox 360's OS installation when Windows 10 is sufficient which is different from PS3 and Wii/Wii U emulators.

3rd party Xbox 360 emulator on PC without the need for Xbox OS shows the closeness between Xbox and PC's Direct3D.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#14 Posted by ronvalencia (28203 posts) -

@tormentos said:

@i_p_daily:

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-backwards-compatiblity-faster-performance-patent/

Oh oh...

Thank God Sony doesn't put effort into gamplay,and still its games kick Ms first party game asses,imagine if they did.. lol

From your link

Think of it like Boost Mode on a PS4 Pro, the optional setting that lets you juice up the performance of some games that aren't specifically optimized for the system. This would give developers the option to not just emulate the experience of playing a PS4 game on PS5 but improve on it, increasing things like framerate by letting the game tap into more of PS5's power (if it can handle it while staying stable)..

Deeper changes like boosting resolution or texture quality would go beyond the scope of this patent as they'd likely require changes to the game itself rather than just the (emulated) system it's running on top of, but they're still possible. We already know online multiplayer will stretch across the systems and we'll keep you up to date as we hear more about PS5 backwards compatibility.

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#15 Posted by BoxRekt (2004 posts) -

Playing 100% of all previous games >>>>>

>>>>>>playing a portion hand pick by suits who choose then for me.

If the "effort" to have BC like MS costs me games in my library then that's an automatic FAIL IMO!

I know lemmings hardly have any games from their previous systems line up worth caring about to make a big deal if it's severely fractured and limited but, that's a SHIT "effort" for BC. If all games aren't able to be played it can hardly even be considered BC to be honest.

1st priority is getting 100% or near 100% of the library compatible when it comes to BC. Everything else is extra credit.

Till this day PS3 fat 60 gig 100% PS1/PS2 BC >>>>>>>>>> any xbox BC implementation

Avatar image for Livecommander
#16 Posted by Livecommander (1076 posts) -

@Sevenizz: lol remember this when the next xbox adopts half of what made the ps4 successful

Any true gamers knows they all borrow from each other

Avatar image for Pedro
#17 Posted by Pedro (35493 posts) -

I think we should wait and see instead of speculating the worse or the best.

Avatar image for kingtito
#18 Posted by kingtito (10378 posts) -

@boxrekt: "playing a portion hand pick by suits who choose then for me" vs charging for remasters and 0% BC...ummm yeah that sounds better

Avatar image for calvincfb
#19 Posted by Calvincfb (0 posts) -

No, they would have to spend time and money enhancing the games, no thanks, let they spend those on new games. A ps4 pro mode is all that's needed.

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#20 Posted by AsadMahdi59 (7121 posts) -

Improving load times + getting games to/close to target frame rates and carrying over any of the Pro enhancements would be good for me. Don't need them to further enhance PS4 games

Would be interested in seeing them do something extra for PS2 games if they decide to add that. Like 1080p support. The One X dramatically improves OG Xbox games so should be doable.

Would also be cool if they could improve performance on PS3 games if they added PS3 support but I doubt that's coming.

Avatar image for tormentos
#21 Posted by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@i_p_daily said:
@tormentos said:

@i_p_daily:

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-backwards-compatiblity-faster-performance-patent/

Oh oh...

Thank God Sony doesn't put effort into gamplay,and still its movies kick Ms first party game asses,imagine if they did.. lol

Fixed that for you.

Well sony movies get better score and bigger sales than MS games that should tell you something about how sad it is the state of MS games.

People prefer movies to playing MS games..Hahahaha

@ronvalencia said:

From your link

Think of it like Boost Mode on a PS4 Pro, the optional setting that lets you juice up the performance of some games that aren't specifically optimized for the system. This would give developers the option to not just emulate the experience of playing a PS4 game on PS5 but improve on it, increasing things like framerate by letting the game tap into more of PS5's power (if it can handle it while staying stable)..

Deeper changes like boosting resolution or texture quality would go beyond the scope of this patent as they'd likely require changes to the game itself rather than just the (emulated) system it's running on top of, but they're still possible. We already know online multiplayer will stretch across the systems and we'll keep you up to date as we hear more about PS5 backwards compatibility.

That would also be the case for the xbox one dumb dumb,as xbox one games were built using lower assets,so higher quality texture were not there neither,boosting resolution i don't agree with that is just a matter of rising resolution,much i did with games like command and conquer that weren't mean to be played at 1080p display,but you can change the resolution just by changing a simply config file.

Running a game on higher resolution would simply require hardware with more power and quick update to remove the old top resolution.

So once again your wasting your time,running PS4 games at higher resolution on PS5 will probably be a slam dunk.

@kingtito said:

@boxrekt: "playing a portion hand pick by suits who choose then for me" vs charging for remasters and 0% BC...ummm yeah that sounds better

2 years after the damn console launched who cares.

By that time on the 360 life no one was talking about playing xbox games on xbox 360,they were talking about Halo 3,Gears,Forza,Bioshock,Mass effect,Lost planet,Saints Row,Dead Rising and many other games not about playing old games.

But this gen is different the xbox one has been a total shit hole for games so i guess reliving old glory days is some how a thing even in broken form and late.

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#22 Posted by Calvincfb (0 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

I think you’ll get your wish. Sony has a history of copying Xbox innovations on future consoles.

lol

Did you know PS2 made PSX games look a little better and had improved loading times?

Avatar image for Pedro
#23 Edited by Pedro (35493 posts) -
@calvincfb said:

lol

Did you know PS2 made PSX games look a little better and had improved loading times?

lol

Did you know the PS4 required you to buy remasters to play a select few PS3 games?

Avatar image for kingtito
#24 Posted by kingtito (10378 posts) -

@tormentos said:
.
@kingtito said:

@boxrekt: "playing a portion hand pick by suits who choose then for me" vs charging for remasters and 0% BC...ummm yeah that sounds better

2 years after the damn console launched who cares.

By that time on the 360 life no one was talking about playing xbox games on xbox 360,they were talking about Halo 3,Gears,Forza,Bioshock,Mass effect,Lost planet,Saints Row,Dead Rising and many other games not about playing old games.

But this gen is different the xbox one has been a total shit hole for games so i guess reliving old glory days is some how a thing even in broken form and late.

What does it matter when it came. It came and it wasn't even supposed to come according to MS.

Oh I see we're back to no one cares about BC. You're a clown and it would figure you'd talk down a free feature MS said wasn't going to happen.

Says the one that doesn't own any current gen system and definitely doesn't have an X1 or play any of it's games. Yeah we're going to take YOUR opinion on MS products seriously.

It would appear cows seem to care about "reliving old glory days" since most seem to be very excited for BC after claiming BC doesn't matter, no one cares about BC and you don't buy new consoles to play old games. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-S

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#25 Posted by Archangel3371 (28420 posts) -

That would certainly be nice. I think Microsoft has done a fantastic job bringing the games from their previous consoles to the Xbox One’s backwards compatibility.

Avatar image for tormentos
#26 Posted by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@Pedro said:
@calvincfb said:

lol

Did you know PS2 made PSX games look a little better and had improved loading times?

lol

Did you know the PS4 required you to buy remasters to play a select few PS3 games?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/halo-the-master-chief-collection-digital-bundle/brnvr30j0sj2?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

https://www.amazon.com/Gears-War-Ultimate-Xbox-One/dp/B00ZMBLKPG

Funny how non of the Halo on the remaster version was BC on xbox one when BC hit,they were introduce much much latter,now tell me they weren't available because MS could not have them in time,and not because they were selling a remaster collection that didn't even work online properly.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/21/16345530/halo-3-xbox-one-backward-compatible-now-available-odst

BC hit in 2015,support for those games came in late 2017 2 years after,and MCC was release in late 2014,so yeah MS held back those games on xbox one BC just to sell remaster copies.

So all companies sold remasters.

Nintendo has been doing it even longer than sony.

@kingtito said:

What does it matter when it came. It came and it wasn't even supposed to come according to MS.

Oh I see we're back to no one cares about BC. You're a clown and it would figure you'd talk down a free feature MS said wasn't going to happen.

Says the one that doesn't own any current gen system and definitely doesn't have an X1 or play any of it's games. Yeah we're going to take YOUR opinion on MS products seriously.

It would appear cows seem to care about "reliving old glory days" since most seem to be very excited for BC after claiming BC doesn't matter, no one cares about BC and you don't buy new consoles to play old games. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-S

Which make it totally broken and only functional with like 25% of its games.

No one cares about BC the only console that had partial and broken BC is the one losing by the longest shot the switch will pass the xbox one this year and the PS4 has a huge lead on it,so yeah i can make the argument that most people don't care about it,else since 2015 xbox one sales would have increase greatly but yeah that didn't happen.

BC is a nice feature on launch 2 year of more after launch who cares man,new gens are about new games not old ones,that is a proven fact not my opinion by the way.

The only one here who doesn't own a console is you,and the fact that you have to resort to lies to try to win an argument say as much about your arguments as it says about you.

NO i am not excited i could care 3 shits for it,my PS4 will not stop working after i buy a PS5,but i am all up for seeing you lemming stop giving a shit about BC as soon as the PS5 get it again,just like i claimed years ago it would happen,and just like it happen during the 360 generation were no one care about BC either on 360 or PS3,and the PS3 was BC with more than 7,000 games from 2 different generations and you people still not care.

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#27 Edited by Calvincfb (0 posts) -

@Pedro said:
@calvincfb said:

lol

Did you know PS2 made PSX games look a little better and had improved loading times?

lol

Did you know the PS4 required you to buy remasters to play a select few PS3 games?

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS2 BC? It doesn't.

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#28 Posted by kuu2 (11162 posts) -

You’re welcome.

Avatar image for kingtito
#29 Edited by kingtito (10378 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@kingtito said:

What does it matter when it came. It came and it wasn't even supposed to come according to MS.

Oh I see we're back to no one cares about BC. You're a clown and it would figure you'd talk down a free feature MS said wasn't going to happen.

Says the one that doesn't own any current gen system and definitely doesn't have an X1 or play any of it's games. Yeah we're going to take YOUR opinion on MS products seriously.

It would appear cows seem to care about "reliving old glory days" since most seem to be very excited for BC after claiming BC doesn't matter, no one cares about BC and you don't buy new consoles to play old games. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-S

Which make it totally broken and only functional with like 25% of its games.

No one cares about BC the only console that had partial and broken BC is the one losing by the longest shot the switch will pass the xbox one this year and the PS4 has a huge lead on it,so yeah i can make the argument that most people don't care about it,else since 2015 xbox one sales would have increase greatly but yeah that didn't happen.

BC is a nice feature on launch 2 year of more after launch who cares man,new gens are about new games not old ones,that is a proven fact not my opinion by the way.

The only one here who doesn't own a console is you,and the fact that you have to resort to lies to try to win an argument say as much about your arguments as it says about you.

NO i am not excited i could care 3 shits for it,my PS4 will not stop working after i buy a PS5,but i am all up for seeing you lemming stop giving a shit about BC as soon as the PS5 get it again,just like i claimed years ago it would happen,and just like it happen during the 360 generation were no one care about BC either on 360 or PS3,and the PS3 was BC with more than 7,000 games from 2 different generations and you people still not care.

Who cares, they did it and it's 100% free and the kicker is MS said it couldn't be done. BONUS you el tormented whether or not it's only 25% of even 10% of the games. It's better than 0% and having to buy remasters of a games you already only that is only marginally better. I guess in a cows mind 0% and spending money vs 25% and free is better

You might want to tell that to your fellow cows because they sure as hell seem to care now that Sony announced PS5 will be BC with PS4. You going to pretend BC doesn't matter to cows again?

Is that your argument now? BC only matters in the 1st 2 years? So you're just speaking for ALL gamers or just cows? Sounds like you're trying to project your thoughts and feelings about BC on to everyone.

Is that right? Is that why I've shared my GT and proves I own both a PS4 AND X1? Have you? Didn't think so because we know you don't play games, you live by the cow motto "we don't love our console, we just hate yours" only you don't own a current gen console.

1st of all you don't own a PS4 and 2nd your fellow bovine companions care. Just look at some of their responses regarding the PS5 an BC. I think you do care because if MS doesn't have 100% full BC with it's next console you'll be using it as ammo.

Avatar image for hrt_rulz01
#30 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (19171 posts) -

I doubt it... they'll do the bare minimum. The only reason they're doing it at all is because MS forced their hand. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered.

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#31 Posted by BoxRekt (2004 posts) -
@hrt_rulz01 said:

I doubt it... they'll do the bare minimum. The only reason they're doing it at all is because MS forced their hand. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered.

Sony's "bare minimum" has always be far superior to whatever MS offers so I fully expect to be able to play all my games and not just a hand picked selection like you pitiful lemmings.

Avatar image for calvincfb
#32 Edited by Calvincfb (0 posts) -

@hrt_rulz01: is it? Why did the PS2 had BC then? You people tend to forget Sony did BC way before Xbox even existed.

Xbox isn't forcing Sony to do anything, third place doesn't force the market leader to do anything.

Sony is doing it now simply because it's cheap and the architecture of the ps5 will be the same as the ps4.

Switch isn't doing bc and it's selling like hot cakes.

BC means nothing and it never did. Get over it.

Avatar image for tormentos
#33 Edited by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@kingtito said:

Who cares, they did it and it's 100% free and the kicker is MS said it couldn't be done. BONUS you el tormented whether or not it's only 25% of even 10% of the games. It's better than 0% and having to buy remasters of a games you already only that is only marginally better. I guess in a cows mind 0% and spending money vs 25% and free is better

You might want to tell that to your fellow cows because they sure as hell seem to care now that Sony announced PS5 will be BC with PS4. You going to pretend BC doesn't matter to cows again?

Is that your argument now? BC only matters in the 1st 2 years? So you're just speaking for ALL gamers or just cows? Sounds like you're trying to project your thoughts and feelings about BC on to everyone.

Is that right? Is that why I've shared my GT and proves I own both a PS4 AND X1? Have you? Didn't think so because we know you don't play games, you live by the cow motto "we don't love our console, we just hate yours" only you don't own a current gen console.

1st of all you don't own a PS4 and 2nd your fellow bovine companions care. Just look at some of their responses regarding the PS5 an BC. I think you do care because if MS doesn't have 100% full BC with it's next console you'll be using it as ammo.

1-Ms also say they could not backtrack the damn policies they had,only to backtrack them as soon as they saw their pre sales sucked ass.They did BC because they were desperate they were doing what ever they could to try to win the consumer back.

BC on PS4 is impossible period the Jaguar on PS4 even on pro is incapable of emulating cell.

I don't have to buy a damn remaster i own a damn PS3 and mine didn't stop working as soon as i bought a PS4,that only happens on your biased world.

No i am sure they are just making fun of lemmings such as your self,the moment BC hit the PS5 is the moment it will not matter to lemmings anymore as simple as that,and will not be cripple like on xbox one.

No you can't read for shit i say is a nice feature on launch, were few games are available, but 2 years after launch who the hell cares by that time the PS5 or any console should be pulling its own weight.

You mean you FRIEND GT? Please man remember you get back what you give,people already know i own a PS4 it is you a old man with a mind of a 13 year old who refuse to admit it,and think that repeating the same lies will some how make it true,damn you should have say to your self that the xbox one was winning maybe it would have right?

You are a liar and you had been expose here in multiple topics been a total hypocrite so yeah you have nothing.

Avatar image for Pedro
#34 Posted by Pedro (35493 posts) -

@calvincfb said:

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS2 BC? It doesn't.

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS4BC? It doesn't. :)

Avatar image for Nonstop-Madness
#35 Posted by Nonstop-Madness (10060 posts) -

Well, improved load times are a given. They've already showed that with their Spiderman demo.

I'm not sure about performance or resolution but, it should run the games just as well as the original console.

Avatar image for tormentos
#36 Posted by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@hrt_rulz01 said:

I doubt it... they'll do the bare minimum. The only reason they're doing it at all is because MS forced their hand. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered.

Yeah MS forced their hand so badly,Sony had to adjust on the spot to stop the xbox from over taking sony.

I wonder if you people really read the kind of nonsense crap you spew here.

The PS2 had BC before the damn xbox even existed.

Avatar image for tormentos
#37 Edited by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@Pedro said:
@calvincfb said:

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS2 BC? It doesn't.

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS4BC? It doesn't. :)

Yeah it doesn't invalidated either that MS also did remasters. In sony's defense the PS4 can't emulate PS3 games,but the xbox one sure could emulate xbox 360 games.

Avatar image for hrt_rulz01
#38 Edited by hrt_rulz01 (19171 posts) -

@boxrekt said:
@hrt_rulz01 said:

I doubt it... they'll do the bare minimum. The only reason they're doing it at all is because MS forced their hand. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered.

Sony's "bare minimum" has always be far superior to whatever MS offers so I fully expect to be able to play all my games and not just a hand picked selection like you pitiful lemmings.

Lol, whatever you say Quack...

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#39 Edited by ronvalencia (28203 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@i_p_daily said:
@tormentos said:

@i_p_daily:

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-backwards-compatiblity-faster-performance-patent/

Oh oh...

Thank God Sony doesn't put effort into gamplay,and still its movies kick Ms first party game asses,imagine if they did.. lol

Fixed that for you.

Well sony movies get better score and bigger sales than MS games that should tell you something about how sad it is the state of MS games.

People prefer movies to playing MS games..Hahahaha

@ronvalencia said:

From your link

Think of it like Boost Mode on a PS4 Pro, the optional setting that lets you juice up the performance of some games that aren't specifically optimized for the system. This would give developers the option to not just emulate the experience of playing a PS4 game on PS5 but improve on it, increasing things like framerate by letting the game tap into more of PS5's power (if it can handle it while staying stable)..

Deeper changes like boosting resolution or texture quality would go beyond the scope of this patent as they'd likely require changes to the game itself rather than just the (emulated) system it's running on top of, but they're still possible. We already know online multiplayer will stretch across the systems and we'll keep you up to date as we hear more about PS5 backwards compatibility.

That would also be the case for the xbox one dumb dumb,as xbox one games were built using lower assets,so higher quality texture were not there neither,boosting resolution i don't agree with that is just a matter of rising resolution,much i did with games like command and conquer that weren't mean to be played at 1080p display,but you can change the resolution just by changing a simply config file.

Running a game on higher resolution would simply require hardware with more power and quick update to remove the old top resolution.

So once again your wasting your time,running PS4 games at higher resolution on PS5 will probably be a slam dunk.

Red herring argument with EA's Command and Conquer game.

When standard APIs are used, 3D vector graphics can be easily scaled with higher resolution via API intercept method.

Console port game like Dark Souls on PC has 1280x720 locked resolution and was easily overcome by pre-doctorate student by API intercept method.

3D graphics was born from 2D vector graphics. Separate hardware was added for Z-buffer and rasterization (vector graphics to integer pixel conversion) processing. Amiga's old 1985 year IGP can accelerate 2D vector line draws and filled vector rectangle which is used for F-29 Retaliator 3D (filled polygon) game.

Separate texture units was added to handle texture related processing.

PC emulators like Wii U's Breath of the Wild game can be played at 4K resolution. Resolution API calls from the game was intercepted by the emulator and scaled accordingly.

Vector scaling for PS4 games can be done just like PC's Wii U, but it just needs crafty system programmers. Unlike Wii U emulator, PS4 BC on PS5 has near-zero CPU overheads.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#40 Edited by ronvalencia (28203 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@Pedro said:
@calvincfb said:

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS2 BC? It doesn't.

Yes, I know, but how that invalidates what I said about PS4BC? It doesn't. :)

Yeah it doesn't invalidated either that MS also did remasters. In sony's defense the PS4 can't emulate PS3 games,but the xbox one sure could emulate xbox 360 games.

PS4 can emulate PS3 games which used 1 PPE and 2 SPUs. NVIDIA RSX is still DirectX 9c class GPU and it's instruction sequence can be reversed translated into Direct3D/OpenGL/Vulakn API calls. Non-batch draw calls nature on game consoles leads to DirectX12/Vulkan API usage on PC emulators, but this issue is not a problem for PS4.

PC GPU driver translates Direct3D API calls into GPU instruction set.

Copying RSX's instruction set by official company like Sony can be problematic and NVIDIA has very good lawyers.

XBO's GPU has custom native FP10 support from X360. X1X GPU also has native FP10 support. NVIDIA RSX has slight register storage expansion over G70, but there's nothing special about it when open source NVIDIA G7X drivers still run on it.

Avatar image for Shewgenja
#41 Edited by Shewgenja (21456 posts) -

I'd take launch ps3 type of bc support over an enhanced limited library, personally. Over the years, I've piled up a sizable library of disc games.

Avatar image for Pedro
#42 Posted by Pedro (35493 posts) -

@tormentos said:

Yeah it doesn't invalidated either that MS also did remasters. In sony's defense the PS4 can't emulate PS3 games,but the xbox one sure could emulate xbox 360 games.

I guess you saw my name and couldn't help yourself but to basically add nothing. LOL

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#43 Edited by ronvalencia (28203 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

I'd take launch ps3 type of bc support over an enhanced limited library, personally. Over the years, I've piled up a sizable library of disc games.

Fat PS3's PS2 BC hardware doesn't benefit CELL+RSX's performance since PS2 BC hardware has consumed the limited silicon budget.

PowerPC instruction set is not super-set of MIPS instruction set. Sony selected a loser MIPS Inc.

XBO's BC method maximizes silicon space for newer GPU and CPU IP blocks.

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#44 Posted by henrythefifth (2502 posts) -

We all know what issues Xbone BC has: There's the annoying framerate sawing, that makes playing your 360 games on Xbone a pain in the eyes, and on top of that, the games sometimes run on 720p on your Xbone, even tho they run on 1080p on good old 360.

And dont try denying these issues. Even DigitalFoundry have continuously complained about them.

Point is, SONY must do better than Xbone has done. I dont want to see horrid framerate sawing on PS5 when I play PS3/PS4 games on it. Neither will I want to see visual degrading due to clashing resos. (PS3 games run on 720p, and when upped to HD or 4K this might lead to bad visual glitches on PS5...)

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#45 Posted by Shewgenja (21456 posts) -

@ronvalencia: I guess my intended point was, if there was a choice in style of BC, I would not prefer XBoxs method with the caveat of excluding games.

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#46 Posted by AJStyles (1032 posts) -

BC is overrated for any console.

I never used it when I got my PS2, PS3, 360/xbone and whatever BC Nintendo had over the years.

I buy new consoles to play new games.

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#47 Edited by ronvalencia (28203 posts) -

@henrythefifth said:

We all know what issues Xbone BC has: There's the annoying framerate sawing, that makes playing your 360 games on Xbone a pain in the eyes, and on top of that, the games sometimes run on 720p on your Xbone, even tho they run on 1080p on good old 360.

And dont try denying these issues. Even DigitalFoundry have continuously complained about them.

Point is, SONY must do better than Xbone has done. I dont want to see horrid framerate sawing on PS5 when I play PS3/PS4 games on it. Neither will I want to see visual degrading due to clashing resos. (PS3 games run on 720p, and when upped to HD or 4K this might lead to bad visual glitches on PS5...)

XBO BC with X360 improves with better hardware and Jaguar CPU has imposed some limitation. Xbox 360 BC runs better on X1X.

PS5 is a super-set of PS4 hardware where it's GCN instruction set was re-implemented into NAVI's RDNA architecture.

PS5's Zen v2 CPU's instruction set is a super-set from Jaguar CPU's instruction set.

PS3 runs with PowerPC instruction set. CELL's SPE is based on PowerPC's VMX SIMD instruction set. For PS3 BC, leading edge translation software will be needed to emulate PowerPC instruction set on Zen v2.

PS5 is effectively Sony's Steam Machine gaming PC with AMD's desktop CPU and GPU. Config a gaming PC with 8 cores Intel Coffeelake at 3.2 Ghz and RX-Vega 64 liquid cooled.

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#49 Posted by shellcase86 (4489 posts) -

MS certainly has set the standard in that regard. I'm optimistic Sony can/will do the same. Some evidence of that with the recent Spiderman demo.

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#50 Edited by tormentos (29236 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:

PS4 can emulate PS3 games which used 1 PPE and 2 SPUs. NVIDIA RSX is still DirectX 9c class GPU and it's instruction sequence can be reversed translated into Direct3D/OpenGL/Vulakn API calls. Non-batch draw calls nature on game consoles leads to DirectX12/Vulkan API usage on PC emulators, but this issue is not a problem for PS4.

PC GPU driver translates Direct3D API calls into GPU instruction set.

Copying RSX's instruction set by official company like Sony can be problematic and NVIDIA has very good lawyers.

XBO's GPU has custom native FP10 support from X360. X1X GPU also has native FP10 support. NVIDIA RSX has slight register storage expansion over G70, but there's nothing special about it when open source NVIDIA G7X drivers still run on it.

The PS4 can't emulate PS3 games stop your shitty ass sony hate man and stop arguing bullshit that should not be argue,emulation of PS4 games would require part of the game to basically be rewrite for the platform in question.

The jaguar on PS4 can't emulate cell.

Sony would simply pay a royalty for that just like MS did with the xbox 360,nothing more nothing less.

"I wish we had a button that was like ‘Turn On PS4 Mode’, but no," Druckmann said. "We expected it to be hell, and it was hell. Just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds … that took a long time. These engineers are some of the best in the industry and they optimized the game so much for the PS3’s SPUs specifically. It was optimized on a binary level, but after shifting those things over, you have to go back to the high level, make sure the systems are intact, and optimize it again.

https://www.polygon.com/2014/5/16/5723830/last-of-us-ps4-port-hell

It is simply not worth it the amount of work that has to be put in place to make a single ps3 game run on PS4.

The jaguar on PS4 can't emulate cell SPE.

@Pedro said:
@tormentos said:

Yeah it doesn't invalidated either that MS also did remasters. In sony's defense the PS4 can't emulate PS3 games,but the xbox one sure could emulate xbox 360 games.

I guess you saw my name and couldn't help yourself but to basically add nothing. LOL

I see you didn't contradict my point thanks for agreeing with me.